George Zimmerman has been found not guilty!

[Praetor]

We have a neighbourhood watch around here,but it's based on being vigilant, keeping your eyes open and looking out for each other, not sitting in your car waiting for something to happen.

 

Actually i don't know if he was waiting on his car (since he wasn't on patrol that day, from what i understood) or just passing by and saw Trayvon.

[Praetor]

^

10 READ FACTS

20 GOTO 10

 

He was not on duty at the time. He was exactly only being vigilant and keeping his eyes open.

 

:laugh:

 

the fact that you responded in BASIC makes it more awesome.

[Pfino]

Justice won out,but most blacks have such a huge,crybaby chip on their shoulder they won't let it rest.

[AWilliams87]

There is a reason lie detector tests aren't admissable in court.

 

 

Oh. I 100% agree as that's my very point. No one knows what happened.It's all hearsay as there are no true witnesses save Zimmerman and Trayvon and only one of them can provide testimony.

Do you know why they aren't admissible? It's not because they're possible to beat. It's because on polygraph tests, a nervous victim may give off signs they're lying. This wasn't applicable to Zimmerman since he passed. Nonetheless, it's easy for the administrator to tell whether reactions given off are from stress or which ones are from nervousness. I watched a discovery channel special about them; untrained humans are about 40% accurate at spotting a lie, while a polygraph is about 93-95% accurate. Furthermore, a voice stress test, which was what Zimmerman took, is even more accurate.

 

I mentioned the lie detector because it's just one more crucial evidence, along with witness testimony, the medical exam, and other expert claims, supporting Zimmerman.

Yes, that's exactly what i am saying. Don't get me wrong, the courts done what they had to do based on the evidence presented to them... It's not hard to fabricate a story when there is no one around to dispute it..

 

Who sits in their car, with a gun, volunteering to look after the neighbourhood? Someone who thinks they're someone they're not, he was looking for trouble.

 

We have a neighbourhood watch around here,but it's based on being vigilant, keeping your eyes open and looking out for each other, not sitting in your car waiting for something to happen.

Did you not read the case? Zimmerman wasn't actually on neighborhood watch patrol at the time. He wasn't just sitting in his car. A more relevant question would be why was Trayvon doing the things he was doing at night, while it was raining?

 

Again, to clear it up for people. He wasn't told not to follow Trayvon; He was told he didn't need too, which are actually different. After he was told this, he actually STOPPED following him. Listening to the 911 call. Because Trayvon ran. he lost track of him anyway.

[techbeck]

Been reading a little more on this.  Sybrina Fulton is calling the verdict "sending a terrible message to other little black and brown boys".   This is not a racism issue at all but of course, they are making it out to be one.  She also wants Obama to go through the case.  WTF is Obama going to do? She lost her son, I feel for her....but she is just being dumb.

[ahhell]

Been reading a little more on this.  Sybrina Fulton is calling the verdict "sending a terrible message to other little black and brown boys".   This is not a racism issue at all but of course, they are making it out to be one.  She also wants Obama to go through the case.  WTF is Obama going to do? She lost her son, I feel for her....but she is just being dumb.

 

She's an idiot.  If she had been a better parent, her kid would not have been in that situation in the first place.  Of course, it's much easier to point your fingers at everyone else.

[Dashel]

Justice won out,but most blacks have such a huge,crybaby chip on their shoulder they won't let it rest.

I think its more a case of a bad law, not justice, that won out.  There was little mention or regard for the reason why he wasn't guilty and why people of color are nervous (aka stand your ground is a terrible law for minorities)

[LaP]

I can pull up tons of cases where people get put away for stupid reasons, regardless of race.

 

I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, but you're proving nothing here.

But he sort of proves Florida justice system is totally ****** up though.

[Lord Method Man]

I think its more a case of a bad law, not justice, that won out.  There was little mention or regard for the reason why he wasn't guilty and why people of color are nervous (aka stand your ground is a terrible law for minorities)

 

This case has nothing to do "stand your ground." Zimmerman wasn't in a position to retreat when he was forced to fire his weapon. It wasn't even brought up in the defense. It was a standard self-defense case which exists in all 50 states.

[HSoft]

.... why people of color are nervous (aka stand your ground is a terrible law for minorities)

eh?  Zimmerman is a minority and a person of color.

[dead.cell]

But he sort of proves Florida justice system is totally ****** up though.

 

Could say that for many places, in the US and beyond though. :P

[Dashel]

This case has nothing to do "stand your ground." Zimmerman wasn't in a position to retreat when he was forced to fire his weapon. It wasn't even brought up in the defense. It was a standard self-defense case which exists in all 50 states.

I disagree.  I don't believe you can go 'looking' for trouble while armed in most states, which was key here.  He entered the situation carrying deadly force, Travon did not.  This was part of the test for the concealed carry in my state and was explicitly stated.  The only place I 'don't have a position to retreat' is in my home.  You can't incite violence, wait till you feel threatened, then claim self defense.  Its just a dangerous precedent and does open the door for unjust incitement/response of minorites.

 

The defense's strategy was simple: Focus on how fat, incompetent, weak, and stupid Zimmerman is.  They didn't have to bring it up because its the law that gave them justification for that defense.

 

eh?  Zimmerman is a minority and a person of color.

Irrelevant to the broader issue.

[Lord Method Man]

http://www.inquisitr.com/848616/darryl-green-16-year-old-chicago-boy-killed-for-refusing-to-join-gang/

 

Hmm... No outrage. No comments from Obama, no comments from Holder, no DoJ funded protests led by Al Sharpton..

 

No agenda to push in this case I suppose.

I disagree.  I don't believe you can go 'looking' for trouble while armed in most states, which was key here.  He entered the situation carrying deadly force, Travon did not.  This was part of the test for the concealed carry in my state and was explicitly stated.  The only place I 'don't have a position to retreat' is in my home.  You can't incite violence, wait till you feel threatened, then claim self defense.  Its just a dangerous precedent and does open the door for unjust incitement/response.

 

 

You people really need to stop propagating lies. Its over. Deal with it. At no point is there any evidence that anyone other than Trayvon? incited any violence.

[HSoft]

Irrelevant to the broader issue.

Which broader issue exactly?  The one where the mainstream media, Al Sharpton  etc. are desperately trying to portray this as a racist incident when its not?  Or why Eric Holder is desperately trying to convict him on something under civil rights charges? 

I find it really surprising the amount of coverage this issue received and yet things like 6 dead and 32 wounded in shooting incidents in one weekend alone in Chicago barely even gets mentioned.  Where's Al Sharptons outrage about that?  Where are the marches about that?

[Dashel]

You people really need to stop propagating lies. Its over. Deal with it. At no point is there any evidence that anyone other than Trayvon? incited any violence.

I'm not.  In many states (and to your own propagation of mistruth regarding self defense) that is specifically seen as instigation/incitement.  I can only assume you really aren't that familiar with gun law in most states, or why the Florida law is unique.

 

In my state, following a person is a form of incitement.  That he did it while armed is even more of a no-no.  And while it won't always end in a criminal charge, the civil damages can be huge.

 

Thats the true test I'm waiting for, the wrongful death suit.

 

HSoft, I really don't see your point.  My point is that stand your ground is a bad law that opens a greater potential for minority on minority crime.  Nothing at all to do with racism.

[Lord Method Man]

 

I find it really surprising the amount of coverage this issue received and yet things like 6 dead and 32 wounded in shooting incidents in one weekend alone in Chicago barely even gets mentioned.  Where's Al Sharptons outrage about that?  Where are the marches about that?

 

They really don't give two hoots about blacks being murdered. Its the hatred of 'whitey' that motivates them, hence the overblown response to the Trayvon? case.

[techbeck]

They really don't give two hoots about blacks being murdered. Its the hatred of 'whitey' that motivates them, hence the overblown response to the Trayvon? case.

 

Whats messed up is that whitey has nothing to do with this case.  Zimmerman is Hispanic.

[DocM]

I think its more a case of a bad law, not justice, that won out. There was little mention or regard for the reason why he wasn't guilty and why people of color are nervous (aka stand your ground is a terrible law for minorities)

Do some research: he wasn't found innocent under Stand Your Ground but under the standard self-defense rules. These are almost universal in the US and have been for 2 centuries, and they have saved many black and other minority persons from prison after they struck back against attacking oppressors like the KKK and other groups.

Also, here in Michigan SYG was passed largely because of support by black people and their representatives in Detroit and other black majority cities, almost entirely because of their being victims of their own kind. It was passed by both (then Democrat controlled) houses of the legislature, and signed by a liberal Democrat governor and former State AG - Jennifer Granholm.

[Dashel]

Stand your ground governs the scope of self-defense rules does it not?   As it allowed him to use that defense to begin with.  (Which is a significant step above Castle Doctrine, which is what we have in my state) I was pretty sure the Michigan SYG was also quite different in presumption, I will need to research that.

[Lord Method Man]

Stand Your Ground means you have no "duty to retreat" when facing a threat. Self-defense laws apply when there is no avenue for retreat when threatened, like when you are pinned to the ground having your skull bashed into the sidewalk.

[DocM]

Stand your ground governs the scope of self-defense rules does it not?

Only in a limiting way. The standard self defense law has broader scope.

SYG simply eliminates the old requirement known as a 'Duty to Retreat', a requirement to attempt escape before counter-attacking. All too often it came down to 'how?' or 'to where?' People were being charged by ovely aggressive prosecutors when they had nowhere to retreat to, or when the assault was fast & brutal enough to not provide an opportunity.

Asking people to go back to that is IMO unreasonable.

SYG is also not automatic. The prosecutor or a Grand Jury still has to review the case, and if charged it is an option for those charged to ask for dismissal by the court on those grounds. Zimmerman did not claim SYG, opting for the broader standard self defense rules.

Fact is this case was charged for political reasons, specifically because of Sharpton and others raising hell. It never was given to the Grand Jury as was standard, but to a known aggressive prosecutor who would give the politicians the cover they needed to get Sharpton etc. to go home.

[Dashel]

Didn't you both just confirm my point?  It removed Zimmerman's duty to retreat (which occured well before his head was on the concrete).  Just because you are for the law, doesn't mean it wasn't certainly in play here.

 

I just called my gun guy and he confirms that I couldn't claim self-defense in a similar situation in my state since I would have had numerous opportunities to prevent the situation that leads to my head getting banged on concrete, and hence fearing for my life.  Only at home. (Which prior to Castle, I would have had to leave my home unless trapped in a room etc with no reasonable means of escape - again all things that occur before I'm in a physical struggle with a perp)

 

So unless Treyvon ambushed Zimmerman out of the blue, with zero prior knowledge or warning of character or intent, to keep saying it 'had nothing to do with' SYG is just silly to me.

 

There is a reason rational states attach the sphere to generally immobile 'things' and not people.  Its bad law.

[necroxd]

Been reading a little more on this. Sybrina Fulton is calling the verdict "sending a terrible message to other little black and brown boys". This is not a racism issue at all but of course, they are making it out to be one. She also wants Obama to go through the case. WTF is Obama going to do? She lost her son, I feel for her....but she is just being dumb.

If she hadn't kicked her son out this wouldn't have happened.

[DocM]

Didn't you both just confirm my point? It removed Zimmerman's duty to retreat (which occured well before his head was on the concrete). Just because you are for the law, doesn't mean it wasn't certainly in play here.

I just called my gun guy and he confirms that I couldn't claim self-defense in a similar situation in my state since I would have had numerous opportunities to prevent the situation that leads to my head getting banged on concrete, and hence fearing for my life. Only at home. (Which prior to Castle, I would have had to leave my home unless trapped in a room etc with no reasonable means of escape - again all things that occur before I'm in a physical struggle with a perp)

So unless Treyvon ambushed Zimmerman out of the blue, with zero prior knowledge or warning of character or intent, to keep saying it 'had nothing to do with' SYG is just silly to me.

There is a reason rational states attach the sphere to generally immobile 'things' and not people. Its bad law.

And the claim was made that Trayvon did exactly that - he circled around and blindsided Zimmerman after he had ended his entirely legal following of Teayvon, and there was no direct, eyewitness, or forensic evidence to the contrary.

For duty to retreat to attach you have to have already have been attacked, it doesn't apply to several minutes before the attack.

If, for example, you apply duty to retreat your way and claim that Trayvon was in fear of being followed then he too should have retreated (under the old rule) instead of turning to confront or attack Zimmerman.

DtR cuts both ways.

There was a case about 10 years ago here where a prosecutor charged a woman who was cornered in a blind alley by 2 hoods who had obvious ill intent. She wounded one and drove off the other, yet besides the one captured SHE was slso charged under DtR. Retreat to WHERE in a blind alley? And does it mean you need to gove up what little tactical advantage you may have to satisfy some mindless bureaucracy or ambitious charge everyone prosecutor?

THAT made NO sense, hence SYG.

[SupportGeek]

 

I just called my gun guy and he confirms that I couldn't claim self-defense in a similar situation in my state since I would have had numerous opportunities to prevent the situation that leads to my head getting banged on concrete, and hence fearing for my life.  Only at home. (Which prior to Castle, I would have had to leave my home unless trapped in a room etc with no reasonable means of escape - again all things that occur before I'm in a physical struggle with a perp)

 

So unless Treyvon ambushed Zimmerman out of the blue, with zero prior knowledge or warning of character or intent, to keep saying it 'had nothing to do with' SYG is just silly to me.

According to all the evidence, Martin did exactly that.

Also if Martin was worried about the guy following him, why didnt HE retreat from the area himself? Instead he chose to escalate the situation with an assault.

Your friends opinion is interesting and doesn't seem corect, Is your gun guy a lawyer?