George Zimmerman has been found not guilty!

[LakeRat]

Exactly, Zimmerman saw Martin and because he's black immediately thinks the worst because he fit a certain profile. That's called profiling! Ok, so call the police and let someone better trained and hopefully less hot headed and angry do the what they are trained and paid to do. The world doesn't need a bunch of wannabe cops following every black person that they think is suspicious and think they know what they are doing because they are carrying a concealed weapon, otherwise this same mess will happen over and over and over. 

 

OK, please tell me if I have this right.

 

  Break-ins by young black men were occurring in Zimmerman's neighborhood. But, if he calls to report a suspicious young black man, he is profiling. And, apparently, profiling is wrong.

 

  So what kind of suspicious people can he call about?

[heatlesssun]

No he did not start a confrontation. He was approach, then attacked by this dude. You're not a medical examiner. The expert medical examiner corroborated Zimmerman's story about the fight.

 

After the dude noticed he was being followed. That's what started this. Zimmerman was clearly frustrated by the crimes he perceived young blacks were committing in his neighborhood. Being angry and frustrated by the a-holes that always get away and then acting on those emotions started this mess. 

[heatlesssun]

OK, please tell me if I have this right.

 

  Break-ins by young black men were occurring in Zimmerman's neighborhood. But, if he calls to report a suspicious young black man, he is profiling. And, apparently, profiling is wrong.

 

  So what kind of suspicious people can he call about?

 

No one ever said Zimmerman shouldn't have called the police. But following him, with a gun after you already figured he was nothing but a black thug really the wrong attitude to have with a gun because you're angry and frustrated. Many said that Zimmerman was convicted before being proved guilty. The same thing is also true of Martin. Zimmerman had already convicted him as just another black kid trying to rob someone. 

[AWilliams87]

After the dude noticed he was being followed. That's what started this. Zimmerman was clearly frustrated by the crimes he perceived young blacks were committing in his neighborhood. Being angry and frustrated by the a-holes that always get away and then acting on those emotions started this mess. 

He did not start a physical confrontation. That's what matters. Dude punched Zimmerman, mounted him, then continued to bash him. Can't you see that Trayvon was wrong? Who cares if you're being followed. Normal civilized people don't respond like animals.

[Buttus]

Exactly, Zimmerman saw Martin and because he's black immediately thinks the worst because he fit a certain profile. That's called profiling! Ok, so call the police and let someone better trained and hopefully less hot headed and angry do the what they are trained and paid to do. The world doesn't need a bunch of wannabe cops following every black person that they think is suspicious and think they know what they are doing because they are carrying a concealed weapon, otherwise this same mess will happen over and over and over. 

 

This proves that you are just a troll like someone said previously...  

 

you obviously didn't listen to the trial any, because the medical examiner's said that due to the shape of the back of the head and the locations of the cuts on the back of zimmerman's head, his head had to strike the ground at least THREE times...

[heatlesssun]

He did not start a physical confrontation. That's what matters. Dude punched Zimmerman, mounted him, then continued to bash him. Can't you see that Trayvon was wrong? Who cares if you're being followed. Normal civilized people don't respond like animals.

 

We know that Martin got in one punch, but we have to take Zimmerman's word for it that Martin started the fist fight. Maybe Zimmerman pulled his gun on Martin first, or called him a name, or made some other threatening move first. Giving a person every benefit of the doubt that has every reason to lie is odd.

 

And look, I don't know what bash means to Zimmerman, but if I had been on top bashing him like he described, he would have been unable to fire a weapon because he would have been unconscious. I some of you don't know what a truly vicious physical attack is. It puts you in the hospital. 

[heatlesssun]

This proves that you are just a troll like someone said previously...  

 

you obviously didn't listen to the trial any, because the medical examiner's said that due to the shape of the back of the head and the locations of the cuts on the back of zimmerman's head, his head had to strike the ground at least THREE times...

 

I did, but I can't say I remember every detail. I do specifically remember her saying that the nose could have been a little as one punch and she did say that the injuries weren't life threatening. 

[Spartan Erik]

We know that Martin got in one punch, but we have to take Zimmerman's word for it that Martin started the fist fight. Maybe Zimmerman pulled his gun on Martin first, or called him a name, or made some other threatening move first. Giving a person every benefit of the doubt that has every reason to lie is odd.

 

Problem is, all the maybe-this and maybe-that isn't enough proof to get a conviction.

 

I agree with the verdict, but that doesn't mean I think Zimmerman is innocent.

 

Anyhow, the trial is over. Can we move on to more salient issues.. like "Whose Line Is It Anyway?" coming back to broadcast TV?  :rofl:

[AWilliams87]

We know that Martin got in one punch, but we have to take Zimmerman's word for it that Martin started the fist fight. Maybe Zimmerman pulled his gun on Martin first, or called him a name, or made some other threatening move first. Giving a person every benefit of the doubt that has every reason to lie is odd.

Zimmerman's word is backed up by the lie detector administered. A test he voluntarily submitted too. Nonetheless, the medical examiner said their wasn't any evidence to support that Trayvon ever got hit.

[heatlesssun]

Problem is, all the maybe-this and maybe-that isn't enough proof to get a conviction.

 

I agree with the verdict, but that doesn't mean I think Zimmerman is innocent.

 

Anyhow, the trial is over. Can we move on to more salient issues.. like "Whose Line Is It Anyway?" coming back to broadcast TV?  :rofl:

 

Fair enough. I wish it could be over for Martin's parents. So your son was on the way back from the store and decides to become some sort of super monster attacking the guy that was following with a gun because he was a black kid and you're supposed to take the word of that from the man that killed your son? The man that had everything to lose and gain by the verdict in this trial? How do you get over something like that?

[trag3dy]

Fair enough. I wish it could be over for Martin's parents. So your son was on the way back from the store and decides to become some sort of super monster attacking the guy that was following with a gun because he was a black kid and you're supposed to take the word of that from the man that killed your son? The man that had everything to lose and gain by the verdict in this trial? How do you get over something like that?

 

No. They should take the word of the people on the jury and prosecution/defense. You know? The people whose job it is to figure this stuff out? Like what you're saying Zimmerman should have let the police do?

 

It's quite clear by now that you're not willing to accept the way things went based on the facts presented by both sides and want to invent a situation where the kid was a complete angel so you can justify your bigotry against white people.

 

Which is ironic, because Zimmerman isn't white.

 

And don't try to insert yourself into the equation because you weren't there. Saying "well if it was me..." when the simple fact is it wasn't you.

[heatlesssun]

No. They should take the word of the people on the jury and prosecution/defense. You know? The people whose job it is to figure this stuff out? Like what you're saying Zimmerman should have let the police do?

 

It's quite clear by now that you're not willing to accept the way things went based on the facts presented by both sides and want to invent a situation where the kid was a complete angel so you can justify your bigotry against white people.

 

Which is ironic, because Zimmerman isn't white.

 

Take what word? All the jury told them is that Zimmerman was not guilty of 2nd degree murder and manslaughter. They didn't declare him innocent of all wrong doing. 

[trag3dy]

Take what word? All the jury told them is that Zimmerman was not guilty of 2nd degree murder and manslaughter. They didn't declare him innocent of all wrong doing. 

 

Yeah, because the only thing he is guilty of is defending himself. How dare he.

[heatlesssun]

No. They should take the word of the people on the jury and prosecution/defense. You know? The people whose job it is to figure this stuff out? Like what you're saying Zimmerman should have let the police do?

 

It's quite clear by now that you're not willing to accept the way things went based on the facts presented by both sides and want to invent a situation where the kid was a complete angel so you can justify your bigotry against white people.

 

Which is ironic, because Zimmerman isn't white.

 

And don't try to insert yourself into the equation because you weren't there. Saying "well if it was me..." when the simple fact is it wasn't you.

 

My bigotry of white people? I've never gone out of my way to follow a white person because I thought they were suspicious. I've never shot and killed a white, or any other person for that matter. All I've ever said about race in this is that Zimmerman followed Martin because he was black and that pretty much came out of Zimmerman's mouth and by his actions. 

 

Calling someone a bigot simply because they know that certain attitudes about race exist is silly. Are you trying to say that America is now totally color blind, that no one makes determinations of others based on their race?

[trag3dy]

My bigotry of white people? I've never gone out of my way to follow a white person because I thought they were suspicious. I've never shot and killed a white, or any other person for that matter. All I've ever said about race in this is that Zimmerman followed Martin because he was black and that pretty much came out of Zimmerman's mouth and by his actions. 

 

Calling someone a bigot simply because they know that certain attitudes about race exist is silly. Are you trying to say that America is now totally color blind, that no one makes determinations of others based on their race?

 

No, what I'm saying is 90% of your posts in this thread are trying to make yourself out to be a victim because you're a black man and afraid that a white man can/will kill you any time.

 

White people aren't the only ones who can be racist.

[dead.cell]

I've been black all of my life of 45 years. Telling a grown black man, particularly one on the larger side that they don't get profiled is ignorant as well. I don't know with certainty that's what happened here but again, why would Zimmerman start calling a complete stranger an a-hole? That these punks always get away? I certainly doubt we have said that about a little old white lady or even a little old black lady. He saw a young black kid and thought he has a thug, just like many of you have determined about Martin. But of course Zimmerman hadn't dug into all of his social media before making that determination. 

 

I don't think anyone here at all would dispute that racism doesn't still exist or that profiling doesn't happen. However, I don't feel that has anything to do with what's happened here.

 

It doesn't matter what that guy was saying to be honest. I've been around drunks and drug addicts while at concerts, clubs, or just the wrong side of town; people telling me all sorts of awful crap just because they're too far out of their minds or just trying to impress their friends. The most I'd retort with were a few insults or the finger, but hell no am I about to put myself in a situation where I'd essentially be risking my life just to put someone "in their place". Doesn't matter if I'm here in the States or in England, guns or no guns, that would just be a stupid decision for me to make.

 

Now, I'm not particularly in favor of Zimmerman either, but I think a lot of people are blowing this way out of proportion here, especially with the whole race ordeal. I know my black friends and sister are rather annoyed with everyone asking for their "insight", as if they're expected to be angry with Zimmerman and the whole trial.

[heatlesssun]

Yeah, because the only thing he is guilty of is defending himself. How dare he.

 

There are plenty of cases where a white person has defended themselves against a black person and there's never an issue about it because the facts and circumstances are much clearer. If Zimmerman has shot Martin and killed while Martin was breaking into his house we'd never had heard the names Zimmerman and Martin. 

[chrisj1968]

we could also deal with the fact that, trayvon had racial slurs against whites on his cellphone, how he wanted to kill them too. but that doesn't do any good to the trayvon team.

 

today in America, being black, you can do no wrong. I honestly believe there are many black people who are dismayed by all of this.

 

the legacy of Martic Luther King Jr. has been ###### on and forgotten.

[heatlesssun]

No, what I'm saying is 90% of your posts in this thread are trying to make yourself out to be a victim because you're a black man and afraid that a white man can/will kill you any time.

 

White people aren't the only ones who can be racist.

 

People who are naive of their circumstances become victims. People who are aware of them and cope with the properly don't, And who said that only whites were racist? I don't believe that hatred and bigotry are genetic qualities. 

we could also deal with the fact that, trayvon had racial slurs against whites on his cellphone, how he wanted to kill them too. but that doesn't do any good to the trayvon team.

 

today in America, being black, you can do no wrong. I honestly believe there are many black people who are dismayed by all of this.

 

the legacy of Martic Luther King Jr. has been ****ed on and forgotten.

 

I'd say given the high rates of incarceration and young black male homicide blacks are more than capable of doing wrong. Indeed it's because of issues like this that many will look at any black male and think the worst. And some of them are even black themselves. 

[chrisj1968]

People who are naive of their circumstances become victims. People who are aware of them and cope with the properly don't, And who said that only whites were racist? I don't believe that hatred and bigotry are genetic qualities. 

 

I agree. I was with my kids today at the pool and their friend is half white and half black. they don't care what race they are.. we as humans become tainted with filth by older generations prejudices and that's why prejudice remains. kids learn it from their elders.. be it mom and dad or even grandparents. 

[Praetor]

There are plenty of cases where a white person has defended themselves against a black person and there's never an issue about it because the facts and circumstances are much clearer. If Zimmerman has shot Martin and killed while Martin was breaking into his house we'd never had heard the names Zimmerman and Martin. 

 

Dude, stop with the "white person vs black person"; Zimmerman isn't white, period, he's Hispanic, at most a white Hispanic.

 

And there's a plethora of facts that show that not only the kid in question was no angel (his facebook, photos and even sms) but there was no evidence showing that Zimmerman was lying in his testimony; also there are witnesses, the bruises he had in his head, the state of his clothes and fists, the 911 phone call...i mean, by Occam's Razor which is the more likely: that he made it all up, forged evidence or that he was telling the truth?

I agree. I was with my kids today at the pool and their friend is half white and half black. they don't care what race they are.. we as humans become tainted with filth by older generations prejudices and that's why prejudice remains. kids learn it from their elders.. be it mom and dad or even grandparents. 

 

People don't born as haters, they learn to hate.

[LakeRat]

There are plenty of cases where a white person has defended themselves against a black person and there's never an issue about it because the facts and circumstances are much clearer. If Zimmerman has shot Martin and killed while Martin was breaking into his house we'd never had heard the names Zimmerman and Martin. 

 

I would have to agree 100% with you on that point.

 

But, if Trayvon had been white, do you think this case would have seen anywhere near the media attention that it has? That is, also assuming that the break-ins were committed by young white men.

 

 

Edit: It would also be interesting to see what the reaction would have been if the break-ins were still committed by young black men.

Edited July 16, 2013 by LakeRat

[heatlesssun]

Dude, stop with the "white person vs black person"; Zimmerman isn't white, period, he's Hispanic, at most a white Hispanic.

 

And there's a plethora of facts that show that not only the kid in question was no angel (his facebook, photos and even sms) but there was no evidence showing that Zimmerman was lying in his testimony; also there are witnesses, the bruises he had in his head, the state of his clothes and fists, the 911 phone call...i mean, by Occam's Razor which is the more likely: that he made it all up, forged evidence or that he was telling the truth?

 

He's half Hispanic. But my point wasn't about Zimmerman, I'm simply saying that it's the particular circumstances of this case that's made is out to be what it became. Yes, race was the reason why, but not all cases of interracial crime come anywhere close to this, in fact, most never get any attention and are routine matters of justice.

 

I was reading the interview of juror B37. Initially there we're evenly split on the matter of guilt. Three were for not guilty, two for manslaughter and one on the 2nd degree murder charge. But they deliberated and eventually all agreed on the letter of the law. B37 said she didn't believe that race was of issue here, but with half of them split initially it would seem likely that a couple of them did and probably still do think that race was involved but that didn't have any bearing on the law.

 

It was a divisive case, the jurors did their job, I abide by the decision but even B37 said that Zimmerman exhibited bad judgment. People with guns and bad judgment are a deadly mix. I have no problem defending themselves but just strapping on a gun doesn't make you a good law enforcement officer. 

I would have to agree 100% with you on that point.

 

But, if Trayvon had been white, do you think this case would have seen anywhere near the media attention that it has? That is, also assuming that the break-ins were committed by young white men.

 

 

Edit: It would also be interesting as to what would have happened if the break-ins were still committed by young black men.

 

Of course not. But again, it does come back to the matter of Martin becoming a suspect immediately in Zimmerman's eyes. How does the cliche go, first impressions are lasting impressions? I think this case is a perfect example. 

[Praetor]

i agree that Zimmerman could had better discernment of the situation and probably he regrets that day happened; but i wasn't me who was in that situation, but he and Trayvon. But that's not the case in here; in the face of the law he did no wrong and if i was in the same situation as he was, i could not possibly say i could do better.

[LakeRat]

Of course not. But again, it does come back to the matter of Martin becoming a suspect immediately in Zimmerman's eyes. How does the cliche go, first impressions are lasting impressions? I think this case is a perfect example. 

 

 I'm curious. Why do you feel that there would have been less media attention to this case if Trayvon had been white?