Neowin's NHL Discussion Thread

[Fred Derf Veteran]

how are the leafs doing?

Belfour has been hurt with back spasms. Trevor Kidd (the regular backup) sucks. He let in 14 goals in three games. Tellquist (the rookie goalie) has been okay but not steller (.900 save percentage)

Belfour came back on Saturday against the mighty New Jersey Devils and reenergized the entire team. Belfour got the shutout in a 4-0 win.

If Belfour remains healthy then the Leafs have some promise. Without Belfour the team is a dead duck.

[Spyder Veteran]

yea.. has been that way for years. most of the time its the goalie that keeps the leafs alive.

thx for the update fred!

[Fred Derf Veteran]

yea.. has been that way for years. most of the time its the goalie that keeps the leafs alive.

thx for the update fred!

At least Belfour is not subject to mental mistakes. There's nothing worse that watching Potvin let in a shot that was taken outside of the blue line. Remember the puck that bounced over his head?!? Arrgh.

CuJo just doesn't seem to have the big win potential. Look at the Olympics, look at last year's Wings... Yea, the Wings didn't play great as a team but CuJo was clearly outdone by J.S. Gigueire (mind you he was pretty hot). I don't think that, for whatever reason, CuJo inspires much confidence in the other team members.

If we could only take 10 years off of Belfour we'd be a lock.

[Boffa Jones Veteran]

Broduer is pretty awesome too. THink he will pass roy?

[Fred Derf Veteran]

Broduer is pretty awesome too. THink he will pass roy?

Easily.

[Ayepecks]

Well, 3 assists for Lang in his first game... Still don't think the 'Wings overpaid and probably never will ;)

[Ayepecks]

At least Belfour is not subject to mental mistakes. There's nothing worse that watching Potvin let in a shot that was taken outside of the blue line. Remember the puck that bounced over his head?!? Arrgh.

?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Are you JOKING me?!

Belfour has to have some of the biggest mental problems of any goalie! Why on earth do you think the Stars didn't resign him: his mentality was rock bottom! He had to make some exuse about being drunk on cough medicine for the year they made it to the Stanley Cup finals (and got his nickname "Billion Dollar Eddie" for a reason I'm sure we all know)... But he has BIG TIME struggles with mentality.

[kainashi]

Well, 3 assists for Lang in his first game... Still don't think the 'Wings overpaid and probably never will ;)

yeah, it was a great game for lang. he looked very happy out there. :)

[Coolme]

Easily.

Easily? I mean come on MAYBE he can pass Roy, but he won't do it easily. :no:

[BMac]

Easily? I mean come on MAYBE he can pass Roy, but he won't do it easily. :no:

It'll be for certain. Roy is the most overrated hockey player to ever strap on a pair of skates. Don't get me started on my Pat Roy rant but Martin Brodeur is far superior between the pipes. Brody, imo, is THE best goalie ever!

[kainashi]

It'll be for certain. Roy is the most overrated hockey player to ever strap on a pair of skates. Don't get me started on my Pat Roy rant but Martin Brodeur is far superior between the pipes. Brody, imo, is THE best goalie ever!

brodeur is more overrated than roy is. look at the system brodeur plays in, any goalie could be as good as him in that system. roy played in the wide-open 80's and the teams he played on didn't use the same system new jersey uses today.

[Ayepecks]

The "system" he plays in? Saves are saves; a good goalie's a good goalie. Marty makes some amazing saves... I may be a Red Wings fan, but I've just never saw much to like in Roy. I've never seen much to like in CuJo, either, and I thought Osgood was merely decent, so I'm not just saying it because he was an Avalanche.

[kainashi]

The "system" he plays in? Saves are saves; a good goalie's a good goalie. Marty makes some amazing saves... I may be a Red Wings fan, but I've just never saw much to like in Roy. I've never seen much to like in CuJo, either, and I thought Osgood was merely decent, so I'm not just saying it because he was an Avalanche.

he's good but you can't say that the system he plays in doesn't help.

[Ayepecks]

Erm, yes I can. :laugh:

Tons of teams use similar "systems". He wouln't be as highly-rated as he is if he weren't good. Stanley Cup, Gold Olympic medal andVezinas all for the "system". They didn't use that "system" for the Canadian Olympic team.

[Fred Derf Veteran]

Easily? I mean come on MAYBE he can pass Roy, but he won't do it easily. :no:

He is certainaly, from a statistical view, on pace to beat Roy's numbers.

Roy: (38 year old, retired)

1029 Games

551 Wins

315 Losses

131 Ties

60235 Minutes

66 Shutouts

28353 Shots

2546 Goals

2.53 GAA

.910 Save%

Brodeur: (31 year old)

725 Games

395 Wins

211 Losses

104 Ties

42605 Minutes

74 Shutouts

17512 Shots

1543 Goals

2.17 GAA

.912 Save%

Over the last 11 seaons Brodeur has averages 65.5 games per season. If this continues for another 6 years, which is reasonable, then his numbers will look like this:

Brodeur: (at 37 year old, retired*)

1118* Games

609* Wins

325* Losses

160* Ties

65700* Minutes

114* Shutouts

27005* Shots

2379* Goals

2.17* GAA

.912* Save%

*projected

Brodeur wins a higher percentage of games that he is in 0.545% vs 0.535% for Roy. Brodeur is on pace to beat Roy by the time that he is 37. Given that the trend is for players to be in better shape and play longer careers than previously there is nothing to say that Brodeur can't play beyond his 37th year. Look at Ed Belfour, he's almost 39 now. This will only add gravy to Brodeur's numbers over Roy.

Edited March 2, 2004 by fred666

[Fred Derf Veteran]

?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Are you JOKING me?!

Belfour has to have some of the biggest mental problems of any goalie! Why on earth do you think the Stars didn't resign him: his mentality was rock bottom! He had to make some exuse about being drunk on cough medicine for the year they made it to the Stanley Cup finals (and got his nickname "Billion Dollar Eddie" for a reason I'm sure we all know)... But he has BIG TIME struggles with mentality.

I was dicussing on-ice mental mistakes not his mentality. Yes, he's a loner and a bit of a weirdo. He's done fairly well in Toronto off-ice considering the media attention of pressure. He had one statistically bad season in Dallas plus and the Stars had a much younger replacement (Turco). Belfour, is after all, ancient (almost 39).

He's been pretty reliable in Toronto. Sure he's had a few goals that he'd like to have back, like any other goalie, but he isn't prone to letting pucks in from the red line. You need to watch Potvin play to get an idea of what can go wrong. CuJo had problems playing the puck that led to some painful giveaway goals and thankfully Belfour doesn't do that either.

[BMac]

brodeur is more overrated than roy is. look at the system brodeur plays in, any goalie could be as good as him in that system. roy played in the wide-open 80's and the teams he played on didn't use the same system new jersey uses today.

n00b alert.

Roy played with some of the greatest teams ever assembled. In Montreal he had Muller, Tucker, Damphouse, Desjardin & Corson plus more. Then when Montreal sucked he cried to get traded. In Colorado he had Bourque, Blake, Foote, Sakic, Foresberg... do I need to go on? Any goalie would have been successful on those teams. Is Roy good? Yes! Is he the best ever? NO!

Brodeur is amazing. His team has been mediocre with few stars, like Stevens, Niedermayer, Guerin and Holik. 2 of these 4 left and yet Jersey remains at the top. They have played the trap over the pasy few years but so has everyone else. Brodeur is also the best goalie to EVER handle the puck. He's like a defensemen with 10 extra pounds of padding. It's nuts!!! Fact is Brodeur is better and will have better stats by the time he's done playing.

[bayrider]

i don't see why people are saying Roy is overrated... he was a great goalie and a valuable asset to any team in the dressing room... he virtually came out of nowhere and was the 1st to use and perfect the butterfly style of goaltending which seems to be the norm noawadays. Afterall, Broader's idol is Pat Roy, so that tells you something. Roy and Broader (I think) equally talented, though when u put them head to head, i think age does play a big factor as to why Broader is/was better than Roy statistically the last few years. Broader is an incredible goalie, i wont deny it. I think he will surpass Roy in roughly the same amount of games.

[axis]

Neidermayer and Stevens can shut down any team's best line. I have trouble thinking of a better line tandem then those two. Neidermayer has to be the best skating defensemen I have ever seen and Stevens is the prototypical stay at home defensemen. Broduer has had those two for a almost a decade now hasn't he? I would still pick Patrick Roy as the best butterfly goalie of all time, but if I had to pick a goalie to win me one game, it would be Martin. Roy has mishaps when he handles the puck way to often for me.

[LRoling]

Actually, Roy is, IMO, the greatest goaltender to ever strap the pads on. He may have had a lot of great players in front of him, but he did take one Canadien team all the way to the Cup HIMSELF one year, making amazing saves almost every game of every series during that season. Brodeur will most likely surpass Roy, but Brodeur is playing on a team playing a trap system of defense. Roy played back in the 80's when it was non-existent.

Saying Roy is overrated is horrendous. He was absolutely great. Just give the man his credit, and let the subject rest until Brodeur surpasses his numbers.

[kainashi]

n00b alert.

Roy played with some of the greatest teams ever assembled. In Montreal he had Muller, Tucker, Damphouse, Desjardin & Corson plus more. Then when Montreal sucked he cried to get traded. In Colorado he had Bourque, Blake, Foote, Sakic, Foresberg... do I need to go on? Any goalie would have been successful on those teams. Is Roy good? Yes! Is he the best ever? NO!

Brodeur is amazing. His team has been mediocre with few stars, like Stevens, Niedermayer, Guerin and Holik. 2 of these 4 left and yet Jersey remains at the top. They have played the trap over the pasy few years but so has everyone else. Brodeur is also the best goalie to EVER handle the puck. He's like a defensemen with 10 extra pounds of padding. It's nuts!!! Fact is Brodeur is better and will have better stats by the time he's done playing.

just because i have a different opinion on a goalie than you, doesn't make me a noob...

[Fred Derf Veteran]

I've seen a couple of references to Roy playing in the "wide-open" 80's. Roy is only six years younger than Brodeur. They've played, pretty much, through the same times. I don't think that scoring was much above 5.4 goals per game six years before Brodeurs rookie season.

[BMac]

just because i have a different opinion on a goalie than you, doesn't make me a noob...

Alright sorry dude didn't mean to offend you man. My bad.

I still am not convinced though guys that Roy is better. Please keep trying though.

[Ayepecks]

i don't see why people are saying Roy is overrated... he was a great goalie and a valuable asset to any team in the dressing room... he virtually came out of nowhere and was the 1st to use and perfect the butterfly style of goaltending which seems to be the norm noawadays. Afterall, Broader's idol is Pat Roy, so that tells you something. Roy and Broader (I think) equally talented, though when u put them head to head, i think age does play a big factor as to why Broader is/was better than Roy statistically the last few years. Broader is an incredible goalie, i wont deny it. I think he will surpass Roy in roughly the same amount of games.

Good, yes... But overrated and good can go together, you know ;)

[CatnipOligarchy]

3 straight wins for the thrashers.. maybe theres hope yet..

next 5 games

carolina

@boston

NY Rangers

@Carolina

Washington

not too terribly tough schedule either