Hand of God sent missile into sea

[FloatingFatMan]

actually no, the Islamic declaration of faith constitute: "No gods but Allah", (laillahailallah)

you see gods in arabic are illah, not Allah.

Allah is the PERSONAL name of that god.

while Yahweh is the personal name of jewish god.

Not once in islamic histories that particular islamic god are introduced in the name of Yahweh.

while both allah & yahweh share similar historical root, but they are different,

just like you and your sibling share similar root, but you're different entities altogether.

from an atheist point of view:

allah just an imaginary works of arabs who derived their imagination from existing jewish works.

But muslims wont affirm that if they have' been in contact with western christians,

simply because quran said that christian & jews & muslim's god are the one and same entity.

 

Nope. God = Allah in Arabic, they just don't translate it when speaking other languages and it's effectively come to mean a personal name, but it's not. Allah = god = allah.

 

Your "No gods but Allah" quote would be more correctly translated as "No gods but god", which is essentially the same as one of the 10 commandments, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me".

[adrynalyne]

I tolerate religious people just fine.  I don't, however, tolerate religion itself, which is not hypocritical, as I don't expect religious people to tolerate atheism either.

 

Hypocrisy is in the eye of the beholder.

 

None of which alters the fact that they all share the same root belief, and they all pray to the same god. That they call it different things is irrelevant.

 

As Mudslag says, they're all branches from the same tree.

I didn't say everyone is a hypocrite, I said it is everywhere.

 

 

Evident in this thread, as some people jumped on the OP instead of his religion.

[T3X4S]

Religion is that oh too tricky subject that when it comes up in situations like this, well.. just look at this thread for further evidence.

 

 

Could the creator himself have spared the people of Israel?  I'd believe it

 

Could the fog have been the same situation, sure.

 

Now this is coming from a Catholic, and I am sure that there is someone whom would like to take a crack on explaining how the ###### poor quality of the Hamas rockets caused the rocket's trajectory to deviate and thus cause to land in the sea. Furthermore also have a crack at explaining the fog.

 

As the saying goes, the dance floor is yours.

Oh well, I guess I will be the brave one and "take a crack" at this:

I wont comment on the obviousness of a misguided missile being attributed to the fact it happens all the time, nor will I explain how fog comes and goes all the time - I will assume you already know this.

However, I would like to "take a crack" at the logic of the possibility of a god intervening in this way - and the fact you believe it.

The most obvious of questions, why these missiles ?  Why not all missiles ?  If he intervened, why now ?  Were these people more deserving ?  Why did he let so many die ?  Was he too busy ?  If he was going to intervene, why not prevent missiles from being made in the first place ?  Why choose to save a warring country, yet allow tens of thousands of babies die every day ?  Many of those babies were from religious families, Im sure many were prayed for, yet god chose to not pay attention ?

I realize logic and reason are the forbidden fruit of religion, but since you gave me the dance floor, I feel I need to ask.

Also, another post asked why atheists feel the need to to argue religion, I will give my reason...

I am a human being, not special, just like 7 billion others.  I feel a connection to other human beings - when I see another human being duped into believing something so silly, simply because some part of that person feels a need for it to be true - I am upset.  I get upset because I don't want someone who is similar to me getting the shaft of a lifetime.  I don't want to see someone wasting their life on such silliness just because they want it to be true.  I want people, to have intelligence, to make informed decisions, and to make these decisions on their own.

Simple fact, every person's faith is nothing more than a product of where they were born/brought up.  If a bible-beating Christian were to be born in the middle east - he/she would be a devout follower of islam.  If some militant muslim were born in the US, he/she would probably be a member of the Westboro Baptist Church, picketing military funerals.  If any of these people were born a long time ago in the Netherlands, chances are they would be talking about the greatness of Thor or Odin.  What does this say about their staunch belief system ?

Im done dancing - floor is yours

 

[Shiranui]

They are all different branches off the same tree, creating their own views over a period of time.

 

Personally, I believe all religions are correct ... when they say that all the other religions are wrong.

[HardyRexion]

I'm staying off the floor, T3X4S has summed up how I feel better than I could! 

 

But I find it strange that such debates rage on a forum primarily for those interested in technology, in all things binary and geeky and therefore LOGICAL. The OP follows not 1 path of logic or reason (as does all religion). 

 

Debate is good if it's respectful and I enjoy (mostly) reading some on here. FloatingFatMan seems highly educated especially on religion and I agree with almost all he says and learn quite a bit too!.

 

I just come from a stand point of "How can you believe in something just because someone told you?" Unless backed up by peer reviewed empirical evidence then surely we HAVE to question it until we can prove it? And by all accounts don't believe that just because we can't explain something, it means it is unexplainable! Not too long ago we believed the earth was flat, that storms were sent by an angry god, that witches existed and a fair way to trial them was to drown them!

[FloatingFatMan]

But I find it strange that such debates rage on a forum primarily for those interested in technology, in all things binary and geeky and therefore LOGICAL. The OP follows not 1 path of logic or reason (as does all religion). 

 

You're in the sub-section devoted to Real World News.  Why are you surprised people use this sub-section to discuss... real world news?

[FloatingFatMan]

Debate is good if it's respectful and I enjoy (mostly) reading some on here. FloatingFatMan seems highly educated especially on religion and I agree with almost all he says and learn quite a bit too!.

Why thank you! I do try. ;) It helps that my inlaws are heavily involved in their local Methodist church, so I argue this stuff with my mother in law (who's a local preacher), all the time.

 

I just come from a stand point of "How can you believe in something just because someone told you?" Unless backed up by peer reviewed empirical evidence then surely we HAVE to question it until we can prove it? And by all accounts don't believe that just because we can't explain something, it means it is unexplainable! Not too long ago we believed the earth was flat, that storms were sent by an angry god, that witches existed and a fair way to trial them was to drown them!

 

Indeed. There's nothing wrong in accepting an explanation when evidence is presented, but when said evidence is nothing but a story book written thousands of years ago, and hundreds of years AFTER the events it portrays, how can anyone accept that as evidence?/

 

It's all just heresay, and quite transparent as to its purpose, too.

 

As you say, just because something doesn't have an explanation (yet), doesn't mean it HAS to have one (for now).  Attributing it to god is just a lazy cop out.

[trieste]

None of which alters the fact that they all share the same root belief, and they all pray to the same god. That they call it different things is irrelevant.

 

As Mudslag says, they're all branches from the same tree.

What's that same root belief that they share? There is already a fundamental difference in the means of salvation for humans when it comes to Christianity, that is, no one can ever come to forgiveness of sins except through the finished work of Jesus the God-Man on the cross. A typical religion says do this, do that, and you will be saved. Jesus says, believe in me and you are saved. Do this and do that only because it springs from your restored identity and relationship with the Father.

 

 

Based on mudslag's line of reasoning, since humans share 50% of their DNA with bananas, are they realistically half-bananas?

[FloatingFatMan]

What's that same root belief that they share? There is already a fundamental difference in the means of salvation for humans when it comes to Christianity, that is, no one can ever come to forgiveness of sins except through the finished work of Jesus the God-Man on the cross. A typical religion says do this, do that, and you will be saved. Jesus says, believe in me and you are saved. Do this and do that only because it springs from your restored identity and relationship with the Father.

 

 

Based on mudslag's line of reasoning, since humans share 50% of their DNA with bananas, are they realistically half-bananas?

 

Either you really just can't understand this simple (and globally accepted) fact, or you're just being obtuse.

 

Just because they share the same root, doesn't mean they all have to be the same. They take the root, and change what they don't like to fit their own purposes, and lo and behold, a new religion is created, founded on another.

 

All of the three main religions ALL founded their beliefs on the god of Abraham, and on the other beliefs that have preceded them.  Much of Jusaism is based upon older "pagan" religions and also on the tales of Abraham, much of Christianity is based on Judaism (the Christian old testament is the Jewish Torah), and much of Islam is based on Christianity. They even revere Jesus, though as a prophet rather than the son of god.

 

 

 A typical religion says do this, do that, and you will be saved. Jesus says, believe in me and you are saved. Do this and do that only because it springs from your restored identity and relationship with the Father.

 

And that IS a "Do this, do that, and you will be saved" statement.  The instruction to "believe in me", is a "do this".

[HardyRexion]

You're in the sub-section devoted to Real World News.  Why are you surprised people use this sub-section to discuss... real world news?

Yeah I see that. What I mean is it surprises me that a tech site attracts so many (extremely vocal) people from all religions. Some very staunch believers too who probably regard me in an equal but opposite view as I regard them.

 

 

Why thank you! I do try. ;) It helps that my inlaws are heavily involved in their local Methodist church, so I argue this stuff with my mother in law (who's a local preacher), all the time.

 

 

 

Do you not find it frustrating when you provide 'Undeniable Logic' that they deny it?

[mudslag]

 

Based on mudslag's line of reasoning, since humans share 50% of their DNA with bananas, are they realistically half-bananas?

 

 

Holy retarded statement batman, but at least I know why I am so appeeling now. FloatingFatMan covered the rest. They are all rooted from the Abrahamic religion.

Yeah I see that. What I mean is it surprises me that a tech site attracts so many (extremely vocal) people from all religions. Some very staunch believers too who probably regard me in an equal but opposite view as I regard them.

 

 

Tech people aren't limited to opinions relating to just technology after all. 

[FloatingFatMan]

Yeah I see that. What I mean is it surprises me that a tech site attracts so many (extremely vocal) people from all religions. Some very staunch believers too who probably regard me in an equal but opposite view as I regard them.

I see it more that we have a very eclectic bunch of folks here who like to discuss many different things. This is a great thing! :) 

  

 

Do you not find it frustrating when you provide 'Undeniable Logic' that they deny it?

 

Sometimes, yes... It can get -very- frustrating and I've lost my temper a few times with certain people who just insist on their delusion.  My mother-in-law is quite sensible about the whole thing though, which isn't surprising. Methodists are quite a moderate bunch.

[TPreston]

Could the creator himself have spared the people of Israel?  I'd believe it

Why did he allow the holocaust? Why did he not instead help children working in the sex trade and starving to death in Africa ? Is he a racist?

Cant have it both ways greedy theist's either he intervenes or he does not. If he does you can kiss your free will defence to the problem of evil goodbye and enjoy the can of worms you just opened.

Kindergarten Theology is embarrassing, The people who engage in it are an embarrassment to their god.

[Guest]

Ebola virus: Liberia church leaders claim deadly outbreak is 'plague' sent by God for 'homosexualism' and 'immoral acts'

 

A nuke would take care of the virus pretty quick.

Why did he allow the holocaust?

 

God does everything with a purpose. He did not get involved in WW2, because he wanted his holy children to learn and grow all by themselves. Just like how he supports learning by encouraging suicide bombers to preach his teachings.

[Guest]

Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny aren't real?  Say it ain't so....   <sniff>     :cry:

 

Of course they are. Are you telling me that the presents I've been receiving for the last 24 years have been a lie!?

 

STUPID HERETIC GO ######ING DIE!

[MikeChipshop Member]

we are having a discussion. I hope an intellectual one. But if you don't like the subject, I kindly and respectfully request that you not read about these subjects then. I'm not hating on anyone. simply having what I hope to be an intellectual conversation.

 

You can;t have an intellectual discussion with people that believe in a magical floaty all seeing make believe king of the clouds.

 

Yes i know that's an arrogant and rather rude way to put it but i find my self falling back to that time and time again as most (not all surprisingly) of the religious folk i've got in to this discussion with, tend to put their fingers in their ears and hum when they've reached the end of their, often limited, argument.

 

So although i apologise to those religious folk who are capable of rational argument, you're often unfortunately represented by those who can't

[FloatingFatMan]

God does everything with a purpose. He did not get involved in WW2, because he wanted his holy children to learn and grow all by themselves. Just like how he supports learning by encouraging suicide bombers to preach his teachings.

 

Ah, so all the slaughtering throughout history isn't just random human insanity, it's god actually deliberately slaughtering people wholesale (despite promising not to anymore), to teach us all a LESSON!

 

What, pray tell, is that lesson? That god is a complete psychopath? That he's a malevolent monster that enjoys inflicting pain and suffering on its creations?  Coz that's the one I'm getting...

 

I'll take the devil any day... Biblically, he's the GOOD guy...

[medium_pimpin]

Can we PLEASE get back to making fun of bible colleges??  If ever something needed to be mocked.

[bguy_1986]

That's because beliefs can be challenged people and their rights arnt up for debate. I know the posts in this thread are as offensive as "kill all gays" to you but that's your problem.

 

If you guys can challenge the points made in response though feel free

 

 

 

(You cant)

Thinking being gay is alright is a belief too and should also be able to be challenged...  I'm not going to say rights need to be taking away and such though...

Why did he allow the holocaust?

because the devil was in charge of that?

[Skwerl]

Thinking being gay is alright is a belief too and should also be able to be challenged...  I'm not going to say rights need to be taking away and such though...

because the devil was in charge of that?

 

Nuh uh-  It was the lawd gawd!  "He" was obviously working in mysterious ways then! 

[Osiris]

I initially read the title wrong and thought I was going to be reading about some 'hand of god' missile...that would have been epic but this is good news too.

[ichi]

Thinking being gay is alright is a belief too and should also be able to be challenged... 

 

You could then also challenge other "beliefs" like being black, asiatic, blonde, short or tall being alright. It actually comes down to your definition of "being alright".

[trieste]

Either you really just can't understand this simple (and globally accepted) fact, or you're just being obtuse.

 

Just because they share the same root, doesn't mean they all have to be the same. They take the root, and change what they don't like to fit their own purposes, and lo and behold, a new religion is created, founded on another.

 

All of the three main religions ALL founded their beliefs on the god of Abraham, and on the other beliefs that have preceded them.  Much of Jusaism is based upon older "pagan" religions and also on the tales of Abraham, much of Christianity is based on Judaism (the Christian old testament is the Jewish Torah), and much of Islam is based on Christianity. They even revere Jesus, though as a prophet rather than the son of god.

 

 

 

 

And that IS a "Do this, do that, and you will be saved" statement.  The instruction to "believe in me", is a "do this".

Nah, not obtuse, just applying antithesis. You're applying Hegel's synthesis to religion (and not for most other intellectual things you dabble in, why is that?)

 

No matter the root or evolution, there is a cut-off point the moment doctrines contradict each other. As I've already stated, Christianity differs from Judaism and Islam because it asserts that Jesus is God while the other two says "nada".

 

 

Well as for believing as an active step of the will, how much easier can it get for a convicted human being?

 

(You're in jail for life, and the judge offers you to walk out of prison... but you must turn the key and open the gate yourself. It's your choice to continue rotting in prison.)

[FloatingFatMan]

Nah, not obtuse, just applying antithesis. You're applying Hegel's synthesis to religion (and not for most other intellectual things you dabble in, why is that?)

 

No matter the root or evolution, there is a cut-off point the moment doctrines contradict each other. As I've already stated, Christianity differs from Judaism and Islam because it asserts that Jesus is God while the other two says "nada".

You clearly don't understand what a "Root belief" means, do you? OK, how about this... You have a brother and a sister, they both have the same mummy, but a different daddy. That means that though they're siblings, they're not full siblings, just half siblings.  Because of that, though they're related by blood, they don't really look much alike.

 

 

Well as for believing as an active step of the will, how much easier can it get for a convicted human being?

 

(You're in jail for life, and the judge offers you to walk out of prison... but you must turn the key and open the gate yourself. It's your choice to continue rotting in prison.)

It's STILL a "do this do that" instruction, no matter how you might try to phrase it.

[trieste]

Why did he allow the holocaust? Why did he not instead help children working in the sex trade and starving to death in Africa ? Is he a racist?

Cant have it both ways greedy theist's either he intervenes or he does not. If he does you can kiss your free will defence to the problem of evil goodbye and enjoy the can of worms you just opened.

Kindergarten Theology is embarrassing, The people who engage in it are an embarrassment to their god.

Who are the agents of evil in this world? That's right, other men. All sons of fathers and mothers. Their free will to continue unleashing evil on innocents is only matched by your free will to defend these innocents against them.

 

You indict God for his non-intervention, but the real indictment is on you (and I), the keyboard warriors who talk about the poor and the victims but lift no fingers to help. Why should the timeframe of intervention be decided based on your judgment? Would it be offensive to you if I say that you are blind to the realities of believers working their hearts out all over the world pushing evil back an inch at a time?

 

There can be no foundation for intervention either, until Christ restored the power-authority-love relationship between God and believing men.