poll Windows 10 Preview (How do you like it?)

[+Fahim S. MVC]

I still don't see how actually using the whole screen for program presentation is wasteful. To me putting it in a small strip, leaving most of the screen idle seems wasteful. After all, you can't interact with anything not in the Menu, at least not without deactivating the Menu, so all that visible desktop is to me just wasted space. Leave the inline list for All Apps on Windows Phone where it actually makes sense to me.

 

Or better yet, let us choose which presentation suits us.

 

This is exactly what I've never understood about the Start Screen vs Start Menu debate.  On my 1440P (notably not a 30" monitor, so about 160 pixels shy vertically), I much prefer the screen rather than the menu because whichever it is, I am concentrating on it and not the rest of the screen - so why not have it take the whole screen.

[Ian W]

This is exactly what I've never understood about the Start Screen vs Start Menu debate.  On my 1440P (notably not a 30" monitor, so about 160 pixels shy vertically), I much prefer the screen rather than the menu because whichever it is, I am concentrating on it and not the rest of the screen - so why not have it take the whole screen.

This was actually mentioned in one of the Building Windows 8 blog posts.

 

As we looked at layout options for the Start screen, we considered whether it should be full screen or appear on top of your apps as a small temporary window in the corner. Small popup windows are great for scenarios where you need to see the context of what is on the screen while you

[+Fahim S. MVC]

This was actually mentioned in one of the Building Windows 8 blog posts.

 

 

I remember reading it and the logic (to me) is sound.

This is the sort of thing that makes me think that people are just resistant to change - more so because a logical explanation has never been provided.

[Dashel]

If you are going to speak in generalities, move it to the other thread.

[pixelpixel]

Does anyone know how to get the apps back on the Windows phone ? I removed Outlook as I was having ghost accounts show due to the update and now I can't find them on the store.

[+Anarkii Subscriber²]

I find there is a couple of things currently bugging me with Windows 10

* The settings app - the monotone icons look okay, but I reckon it would look better if it used actual tiles like found on the start screen/menu. Each link has its own bounding box, like System, Devices, Network & Internet etc, just give them a background colour and add some life to it. Hopefully its placeholders but I get a feeling thats all we are going to get.
* Too much grey on the title bars, and too much wasted space still. 
* The MS App store is STILL 90% spam and knock-offs of proper games. 
* The MS App store having a grey bar above the search that serves no purpose whatsoever and only takes up space.
* Spartan is still a long way from being finished in this build, constant crashing, imported bookmarks not showing properly. 
* Metro apps are still generally terrible. Netflix seems to be good, but the rest, even the MS created ones, reek of bad. Skype is a great example of this. 

As much as I love Windows 10 (its still better than Windows 8) it does feel like no real strides have been made. In another thread there was a long debate whether people preferred Metro apps over win32/win64 apps, and the overwhelming response is when Metro apps offer the same functionality, almost everyone will switch. Problem is, and it certainly rings true for Windows 8, it was one of the contributing factors why Microsoft wish Windows 8 never existed. 

Metro (in its current state at least) should stay on Windows Phones and the Surface Tablets. Desktops and Laptops should see what we are seeing now, just done better. 

Edited April 13, 2015 by zhangm

[Dashel]

I don't get the app complaint actually.  They are largely better than other 'free' desktop options.  While the websites tend to have more features, I don't think you can ignore the simplicity of the modern ones.

 

WP is the causality so far, not tablets.

[AtomR]

Finally, W10 is becoming a good OS. The only flaw I don't like is Windows Apps (aka Modern/WinRT apps) have Splash screens. 

 

Why Splash Screens are mandatory in Windows Apps, while it's not in iOS/Android ?  

They should update/fix their WinRT API.

 

And Here's my UserVoice suggestion to remove Splash screens from Modern Apps:

https://windows.uservoice.com/forums/265757-windows-feature-suggestions/suggestions/7462849-remove-splash-screens-from-winrt-modern-apps-atle

 

[star56565656]

Im just wondering if the full version will be an iso file so you can reinstall after the free year is up, cause what if you get a virus etc..

[Dot Matrix]

With Windows 10, Microsoft took a coherent, unique look, and turned it into a dull, generic, bloody mess. "Look at me! I look like the others, but with less apps! Won't you switch now!?" What are they thinking? 

[Jim K Global Moderator]

With Windows 10, Microsoft took a coherent, unique look, and turned it into a dull, generic, bloody mess. "Look at me! I look like the others, but with less apps! Won't you switch now!?" What are they thinking? 

 

Some advice from your former self...just insert your complaint in place of "Aero" and "Advanced Appearance"

 

And again, what the hell does AERO or Advanced Appearance Settings do to your productivity? Do you just sit and change your window borders all day? 

https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1144716-just-how-many-people-hate-windows-8/?view=findpost&p=595809610 

 

 

 

 

...and one of my favorites since you are talking about "missing apps"

All this cross-platform talk, and interoperability... Looks like those that want Microsoft to cut out the Metro "crap" UI, are out of luck. I foresee a death knell in Win32 applications.

 

...just saying.  Windows 10 isn't finished yet.

[MikeM97]

Windows 10 Preview has been very used as long as I've seen a lot of talking-to over testers forums ...

My adventure with it met its end in build 9926 .

[TheIxian]

I had a hell of a time installing on my AMD system.

 

I kept getting BSODs every time the installation wizard would get to the point where it would ask me to sign in with my Live ID.

 

I had completely taken my PC apart trying to get down to the most base level of components I could.

 

I finally ended up disabling my onboard Intel NIC, re-installing Windows 10 and then was able to get to a desktop where I could then load the OEM Proset driver.

 

Now that it is installed, it has been a pretty smooth experience.

 

I do notice that Norton will not work and Spartan continually locks up the whole system but those are worked around easily enough.

 

Personally, I am really happy with the melding of Windows 7 and 8. It also seems to be even more responsive than either of the two previous version of the OS.

 

The only thing I am not really a fan of is the high contrast theme but I suppose that is a pretty common complaint.

 

-TheIxian

 

[PGHammer]

It's now a certainty - Windows 8.1 WILL follow Windows pre-8 into VM-dom, as my daily game (DC Universe Online) now works with the still-testing OS (Game Update 47, which was applied to both the clients and servers today, addressed the Windows 10 issues among other fixes and patches in this update - I'm not quoting the forum posts, but my own hard data from my own testing). Also, with this update, Windows 10 has completed my Usability Gauntlet.

I've officially run out of excuses.

[Ian W]

It's now a certainty - Windows 8.1 WILL follow Windows pre-8 into VM-dom, as my daily game (DC Universe Online) now works with the still-testing OS (Game Update 47, which was applied to both the clients and servers today, addressed the Windows 10 issues among other fixes and patches in this update - I'm not quoting the forum posts, but my own hard data from my own testing). Also, with this update, Windows 10 has completed my Usability Gauntlet.

I've officially run out of excuses.

It is good that you intend to upgrade. I am still not certain, primarily because of the lack of a full-screen "All Apps" interface and the changes to Metro UI.

[DConnell Member]

It is good that you intend to upgrade. I am still not certain, primarily because of the lack of a full-screen "All Apps" interface and the changes to Metro UI.

Same here. I finally did a bare metal install on my spare laptop to give 10 a serious test, but thus far I'm not all that impressed.

[PGHammer]

It is good that you intend to upgrade. I am still not certain, primarily because of the lack of a full-screen "All Apps" interface and the changes to Metro UI.

I'm not a fan of all the changes in ModernUI from 8.1, either (and that is despite being on a desktop and two notebooks); one feature I miss a LOT is full-screen Search.  However, I know who to blame for that - the screaming from the pointing-device-driven.  It has been counterbalanced (partially) by the addition of live tiles (Gadgets 2.0) and the various functionality improvements in the OS itself - which DO improve the OS from 8.x.  Basically, my dings are in quibble turf, and I KNOW they are in quibble turf.

[Dashel]

Full screen search is as stupid as a full screen all apps menu.  You guys have and continue to be wrongheaded on this.  These changes are because of universal apps, not 'desktop' needs or the screaming from proficient mousers.

 

Its additionally derp to say that Win10 isn't a tablet OS.  I can accept the notion that Win8 is better on purely touch devices, but even worse is better than the other tablet OSs out there. Not that you've ever bothered to frame your annoying claims in that light.

 

So if you are going to continue to whine and moan and generally not accept change, then you really need to bring more to the table than whaa I can't learn the hamburger and I want my charms back.

[PoultryTumor]

It is close enough to release that I went ahead and installed it on my PC through Windows Update.
Every now and again the start menu will not open (or open quickly), and I can't get Cortana to say my name but that it it for me as far as bugs.
I'd love to see the blur effect applied in more places (and it seems to dissapear when going full-screen on the start menu, but that may be intentional).

I love all of the new sounds but only about 30% of the new icons.

 

I like being able to put the tiles in the start menu, and being able to resize the whole thing.

[Ian W]

Full screen search is as stupid as a full screen all apps menu.  You guys have and continue to be wrongheaded on this.  These changes are because of universal apps, not 'desktop' needs or the screaming from proficient mousers.

 

Its additionally derp to say that Win10 isn't a tablet OS.  I can accept the notion that Win8 is better on purely touch devices, but even worse is better than the other tablet OSs out there. Not that you've ever bothered to frame your annoying claims in that light.

 

So if you are going to continue to whine and moan and generally not accept change, then you really need to bring more to the table than whaa I can't learn the hamburger and I want my charms back.

If you are going to speak in generalities, move it to the other thread. Edited May 6, 2015 by zhangm

[zhangm Supervisor]

Full screen search is as stupid as a full screen all apps menu.  You guys have and continue to be wrongheaded on this.  These changes are because of universal apps, not 'desktop' needs or the screaming from proficient mousers.

 

Its additionally derp to say that Win10 isn't a tablet OS.  I can accept the notion that Win8 is better on purely touch devices, but even worse is better than the other tablet OSs out there. Not that you've ever bothered to frame your annoying claims in that light.

 

So if you are going to continue to whine and moan and generally not accept change, then you really need to bring more to the table than whaa I can't learn the hamburger and I want my charms back.

 

If you are going to speak in generalities, move it to the other thread.

 

Indeed there is also the UI discussion thread, and additional threads about specific features or design elements/decisions are welcome as well. https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1241422-the-great-modern-ui-debate-thread/

 

User interface is a fairly personal set of preferences, so understandably, there will be plenty of polite discussion over it.

[PGHammer]

Full screen search is as stupid as a full screen all apps menu.  You guys have and continue to be wrongheaded on this.  These changes are because of universal apps, not 'desktop' needs or the screaming from proficient mousers.

 

Its additionally derp to say that Win10 isn't a tablet OS.  I can accept the notion that Win8 is better on purely touch devices, but even worse is better than the other tablet OSs out there. Not that you've ever bothered to frame your annoying claims in that light.

 

So if you are going to continue to whine and moan and generally not accept change, then you really need to bring more to the table than whaa I can't learn the hamburger and I want my charms back.

Dashel - I'm not speaking as a tablet user, but as someone that despised the Start menu, even on desktop-formfactor PCs and notebooks.  (In fact, I use notebooks - not tablets - because tablets have too small a screen to suit me.)

 

The newer Start menu is better than the old Start menu because of two features it lacked (not counting full-screen Search) - it's fully scrollable AND it includes live tiles - which I treat as Gadgets.  It has nothing to do with Charms or any touch-specific features.

 

Full-screen Search is a favorite of mine because it was - surprise - keyboard-driven.  In other words, it didn't rely on the mark one mod zero human eyeball - which scrollable-Search on the current Start menu does rely on.  As a keyboard-driven (not touch-driven OR pointing-device-driven) user, I prefer full-screen Search to scrollable Search for the fact that is fully leverageable by the keyboard - not touch OR pointing devices.  (Pointing devices can fail - in fact, I've had them fail on me.  Worse, they fail more often than keyboards do.  Therefore, a keyboard-drivable Search is more Murphy-resistant than scrollable Search.)  Quite aside from avoiding Murphy, the StartScreen by default maintained itself (fortunately, the Start menu in Windows 10 still does) - which means a LOT less scutwork/makework maintaining it.  Also, I don't have a problem with the hamburger menus - they aren't THAT different from the menus in other applications.

 

And in case you didn't notice, even that complaint (lack of a full-screen keyboard-drivable Search) I have listed as a quibble.  It won't block me from upgrading.

[PGHammer]

To those users that keep insisting that Windows 10 is a tablet OS, it is a tablet-plus (or touch-plus) OS.  Touch-screen hardware can use it (as was the case with even Windows 8) - however, traditional hardware without touch can ALSO use Windows 8 (or 10, for that matter), as hardware like my two notebooks proves every single day of the week.  What both Windows 8 and 10 lack is the overt bias toward pointing devices that predecessors of 8 took for granted.

 

So far, the one feature that Windows 10 retained UX-wise from 8 (without a walkback) are the larger landing points - which I have tried to point out benefit pointing devices and touch users alike; that feature alone would have been nearly impossible to remove BECAUSE it also benefitted pointing-device users (especially less-precise pointing devices, such as trackpads and touchpads).  The second-largest beneficiary (other than touch devices) is, from my experience, Windows 8.x/10 users running laptops and notebooks, for the rather obvious reason that they have trackpads and touchpads as standard fare - they no longer have to unpack an external mouse when computing on the move. Unpacking/repacking an external mouse adds both complexity and space requirements - it's bad enough having to add additional (external) storage (which is all too often the case with legacy laptops and notebooks); throwing in external mice makes the issue worse.

 

The current result is I can run one OS on both my desktop and both notebooks - and thus have no learning curve whatever between them.

 

Touch isn't an issue because none of my hardware supports it (which is why I'm not bemoaning the loss of Charms - it's not a feature that I used).  However, I'm NOT bemoaning thee loss of pointing-device bias, either - because I saw what happened to Windows from 9x to 7 because it retained it.

 

Still, I DO get what touch-supporting users are complaining about because - as a keyboard-driven user - I get the gimpage that NOT supporting a feature can cause.  (That issue IS going to come back and bite Microsoft rather hard - especially in terms of users migrating from 8, and in some cases even from 7 - do some of you think that touch support in Windows hardware came only with 8 and later?)

[tompkin]

Still, I DO get what touch-supporting users are complaining about because - as a keyboard-driven user - I get the gimpage that NOT supporting a feature can cause.  (That issue IS going to come back and bite Microsoft rather hard - especially in terms of users migrating from 8, and in some cases even from 7 - do some of you think that touch support in Windows hardware came only with 8 and later?)

I think that we're all going to like things and not like things about Windows 10 depending on where your coming from. In the end, if we want to follow the Windows path that is where it leads. The Windows 7 users can stay on Win 7 but miss the free upgrade if they stay too long. Same goes for Windows 8. If you want to take advantage of Universal Apps though you have to go to Windows 10. 

 

I'm not so sure how big of bite it's going to be to Microsoft.  

[Draggendrop Veteran]

I use it for desktop and large laptop(with mouse, no touch support on mine). Build 10074 has run all my programs and let me do my thing. This build has really grown on me and I am more than happy. When the release comes out, I'll be on it immediately. I am fortunate that I don't usually use touch, but I can see the issues for touch users and it may be rough...Cheers...