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Windows 10 Preview (How do you like it?)

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Dot Matrix    7,436

Hehehe...

Well yea, so far it IS still possible to disable all, or at least most of the annoyances. My worry is that if, or when win10 sees mass adoption, bit by bit we'll see less and less possibilities to eliminate the annoyances. That's why I speak up now. Because if you wait until it's too late....

Speak up against what, exactly? Forward thinking operating systems that aren't trying to cling to legacy?

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Rickkins    283

Speak up against what, exactly? Forward thinking operating systems that aren't trying to cling to legacy?

~sigh~

Yes Dot, I realize that you are...(searching for terms that won't send me afoul)... an ardent supporter of all thing metro.

You do "get" tho, that not everybody shares your opinion, right..??

You do "get" that a majority most likely do not share your opinion, right..??

To myself, metro is NOT forward thinking, it represents the dumbing down of a formerly great operation system. Indeed, to my it represents everything that is wrong with society today.

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MoreRAM    12

man im still stuck in my comfort zone of win 7 had 8.0 installed for like 2 days when back to win 7 now win 10 is coming out im way behind :$

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MikeM97    205

Eh , it seems I only have DX 11 , so it's a big doubt if I ever got a boost from Windows 10 .

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DConnell    6,581

Hehehe...

Well yea, so far it IS still possible to disable all, or at least most of the annoyances. My worry is that if, or when win10 sees mass adoption, bit by bit we'll see less and less possibilities to eliminate the annoyances. That's why I speak up now. Because if you wait until it's too late....

 

It isn't possible to disable all the annoyances. I can't remove that waste of space on the left side of the menu. An inline list belongs on a phone, not on a 23" monitor.

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DeusProto    982

man im still stuck in my comfort zone of win 7 had 8.0 installed for like 2 days when back to win 7 now win 10 is coming out im way behind :$

 

Well I was a clinger to Windows 7 for a long time. But then I realized I could bring a lot of the things I was missing from 7 into 8 by using a third party skin, various workarounds to reinstate volume shadow services, Classic Shell, etc.

 

However I will say that the only thing in the foreseeable future you will miss out on by staying with 7 is DirectX 12 but not many games right now even use DirectX 11 (most are DX9 or 10 or OpenGL) and the games that do eventually use DX 12 will still work for DX 11. Plus only a couple generations of AMD DX11 cards will get an improvement from DX12 and all DX11 Nvidia cards -- but again ONLY for games that use DX12 APIs. Plus you'll need a DX 12 GPU to truly take advantage of all it has to offer. And there is no guarantee that many if any games will use DX12 besides Microsoft Studios titles. So I wouldn't sweat this issue too much. 

 

I'd say you got at least two years AFTER Windows 10 goes generally available/GA which is 2-3 months after RTM before you need be concerned about missing out on something - and that's only if you're a gamer. 

 

Pretty much everything else that was added benefits mobile users primarily and/or desktops with multitouch screens. 

 

8, 8.1, and 10 do have improvements under the hood, but nothing mindblowingly different that benefits a desktop user with a mouse and keyboard IMO. 

 

So don't feel bad about sticking with 7, as you're not really missing out on anything substantive for a few years IMO. And if you play a lot of older games that use DirectDraw they will actually be slower on 8 and above. 

 

I ended up using it because I like under the hood improvements - even small ones. But there's a lot I had to give up and still miss that 7 has: the beautiful Aero Glass primarily. 

 

Basically it comes down to this: You trade in a beautiful front-end with an aging core for an ugly front-end (UI/UX) with an improved core (IMO not drastically improved though). It all comes down to preference and what you value basically. 

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Ian W    2,331
Basically it comes down to this: You trade in a beautiful front-end with an aging core for an ugly front-end (UI/UX) with an improved core (IMO not drastically improved though). It all comes down to preference and what you value basically. 

Sounds like a fair trade.

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chrisj1968    1,417

~sigh~

Yes Dot, I realize that you are...(searching for terms that won't send me afoul)... an ardent supporter of all thing metro.

You do "get" tho, that not everybody shares your opinion, right..??

You do "get" that a majority most likely do not share your opinion, right..??

To myself, metro is NOT forward thinking, it represents the dumbing down of a formerly great operation system. Indeed, to my it represents everything that is wrong with society today.

 

I'm happy with the direction Wondows 10 is going. Dotmatrix seems to be of the impression that, if we don't toe the line as he does or says, we are somehow out of touch. Windows was ALWAYS a desktop OS. only with Win8/8.1 did they try to make it 80% modern UI. We saw what happened... that development team is gone! look where we're at now?  we have a desktop and modern UI based OS.

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Ian W    2,331

Windows was ALWAYS a desktop OS. only with Win8/8.1 did they try to make it 80% modern UI. We saw what happened...

Complaints about things such as the lack of a Start menu, and a complete disregard for the improvements that the Start screen introduced?

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chrisj1968    1,417

Complaints about things such as the lack of a Start menu, and a complete disregard for the improvements that the Start screen introduced?

 

let's not get into a debate. Windows 10TP is surely a drive in the right direction because even the 8/8.1 users win too.

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MikeM97    205

let's not get into a debate. Windows 10TP is surely a drive in the right direction because even the 8/8.1 users win too.

 

a win or a win - win ?

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theyarecomingforyou    10,425

Just tried 10041 and the experience was an absolute nightmare. First I tried an in-place upgrade but when I installed the latest nVidia graphics drivers it wrecked my install - when it rebooted the screen was rapidly flashing and I could do anything about it. There wasn't even a restore mode I could revert to. Deciding that a clean install was best I reinstalled it from scratch, only to find that my sound card isn't supported. Whenever sound is played it starts rapidly switching sample rates and makes a noise through the speakers. Earlier builds didn't have this issue. Tried various fixes, like compatibility mode, but to no avail.

 

This is the second time I've given Windows 10 a try and each time the experience has been appalling. I have no confidence that Microsoft will deliver with the final version, as at this point in development Vista, 7 and 8 were a lot more stable and usable.

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Dot Matrix    7,436

~sigh~

Yes Dot, I realize that you are...(searching for terms that won't send me afoul)... an ardent supporter of all thing metro.

You do "get" tho, that not everybody shares your opinion, right..??

You do "get" that a majority most likely do not share your opinion, right..??

To myself, metro is NOT forward thinking, it represents the dumbing down of a formerly great operation system. Indeed, to my it represents everything that is wrong with society today.

 Again, Windows 10 isn't dumbed down. Something tells me you don't even know what those words mean.

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Rickkins    283

 Again, Windows 10 isn't dumbed down. Something tells me you don't even know what those words mean.

You would be wrong.

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Dot Matrix    7,436

You would be wrong.

No, I'm not. Want to know why? People used to call the GUI as a whole dumbed down. I used to have a college professor who still to that day lamented the "dumbing down" of computing thanks to the GUI. Many "keyboard warriors" saw the CLI as an advanced way of computing, full of "advanced" features which allowed them to master their work, whereas the GUI was "dumbing down" that workflow with needless bloat, missing options, and the fact that they had to learn something new, therefore slowing them down in the process. But time moved on, and the GUI took over exclusively as the sole computing method because it was way easier to use (No need to remember a book's worth of commands), it opened the door to more possibilities, and attracted new segments of users. For the first time, Joe User was able to use a computer without the need for a B.A. in computing.

 

Does this sound familiar? It should. Moving to a modern UI in Windows 10 is nothing more than this same story told in a different light. Instead of moving people away from text-based terminals to GUI driven workstations, we're moving to a more open computing segment where PC, tablet, and smartphone all share a similar role. We're also moving to a segment where the term "Desktop" can mean one of many, many things (not just mouse driven), and to do that, a new way of interacting with these devices is needed. By streamlining and scaling the GUI, we can flawlessly move between these devices, and not lose our data, data integrity, or our workflow.

 

Just like moving away from the CLI to a GUI, features will deprecate, and fall out of use as the switch is made to a different environment. This isn't "dumbing down" anything. This is an evolution of workflow. So go ahead, and keep calling it "dumbed down", because It's not making what you say true.

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ben univ    0

salut

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+Anarkii    2,252

The only problem I have with Metro is the dumbing down of apps to a point where they only have the most basic of functionality. 
I totally get it that apps need to run on all devices, including those 7 people that brought a Windows Phone, but - what is stopping developers from scaling those metro apps so they are bare-bones on Phones and Tablets, and full fledged does everything a normal win32 app would do on Notebooks/Laptops/Desktops? 

Take Autodesk Sketchup for example with Metro. The difference between the Metro version and the full desktop version is heaps. Metro apps will continue to be crap in my view unless they scale like so. 
The design of the Metro UI is fine under Windows 10, its just those terrible terrible apps. :(

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PGHammer    1,494

The only problem I have with Metro is the dumbing down of apps to a point where they only have the most basic of functionality. 

I totally get it that apps need to run on all devices, including those 7 people that brought a Windows Phone, but - what is stopping developers from scaling those metro apps so they are bare-bones on Phones and Tablets, and full fledged does everything a normal win32 app would do on Notebooks/Laptops/Desktops? 

Take Autodesk Sketchup for example with Metro. The difference between the Metro version and the full desktop version is heaps. Metro apps will continue to be crap in my view unless they scale like so. 

The design of the Metro UI is fine under Windows 10, its just those terrible terrible apps. :(

Anarkii, what is stopping Win32 applications? I run them every day in 10041 (and every other build of 10, and 8.x before that). I even have a thread devoted specifically to software that (supposedly) doesn't work in the Windows 10 preview builds. Other than three games, the list of such compatibility failures is zero. (As in none - bupkis - the dodo egg.)

If you must have (or use) a Win32 (or Win64, for that matter) application or game, in ninety-nine out of one hundred cases, you won't have an issue. (The only OTHER versions of Windows - even in beta form - to rack up such utter cleanliness in terms of backward compatibility since the death of Windows ME - which didn't do it - are Windows 8 and 8.x. XP didn't do it, Vista didn't do it - even the much-preferred Windows 7 - before OR after Service Pack 1 - didn't do it.) Win32/64 is still available - even in Windows 10; on devices running BayTrail-T (such as tablets and even some phones and phablets) Win32/64 is an option even there! The ONLY reason I develop on Windows Server 2012R2 is because of Hyper-V (which I have made perfectly clear in the Windows Server and Virtualization threads). Win32/64 is still available - it has NOT been taken away.

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neo1911    793

I am back to 8.1 X64.

 

Feels much better.

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MikeM97    205
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PGHammer    1,494

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MikeM97    205

Sounds like a comfort issue to me.

 

Can you at least say WHY you are so uncomfortable?

 

I assume not everybody can love a '' most - bugged '' Technical Preview ever .

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neo1911    793

Sounds like a comfort issue to me.

 

Can you at least say WHY you are so uncomfortable?

My QNAP NAS server refused to connect after 1 day of use.

But now connects fine on 8.1.

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Rickkins    283

No, I'm not. Want to know why?

Yes, you are wrong, and merely adding long winded rebuttals does not change that.

 

When you remove options, when you remove choice, when you limit flexibility, when you limit configurability, all of these things have a net result of dumbing down the entire operation. All of which may well be fine, on a phone, but it has not place on a desktop computer.

 

Another point I'd like to make, is that there is absolutely nothing you can ever do or say, that will ever change my point of view. That could only happen if microsoft were to change course, and restore logic to the desktop environment. My personal feeling, is that they will, in fact, get there. I see 10 as a last gasp attempt to appease both camps, with one hybrid system. I think it will ultimately fail, at least in it's present form. I believe that they will come to realize that the only way forward, is to allow for more choice right across the board, allowing the pro-touch/mobile community the ability to thrive in their metro universe, all the while accepting the basic fact that the desktop community, their largest single customer base, is a mature group who know exactly what they want, and will not be appeased by half measures.

 

I for one, am rooting for them to succeed.....

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Dot Matrix    7,436

I think it will ultimately fail, at least in it's present form. I believe that they will come to realize that the only way forward, is to allow for more choice right across the board, allowing the pro-touch/mobile community the ability to thrive in their metro universe, all the while accepting the basic fact that the desktop community, their largest single customer base, is a mature group who know exactly what they want, and will not be appeased by half measures.

 

Problem is, there is no one way to define a "desktop" anymore. This is why Metro is there to begin with. That's why Microsoft is unifying all these devices with one UI that scales. There is no more going back Pre-Windows 8 UIs. The mouse is only going to fall away from use as other technologies take over.

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