win10 Microsoft to block Classic Shell in Windows 10: here is why

[Dot Matrix]

This is a very arrogant, condescending, anti-consumer move by microsoft.

They're working on trying to improve Windows. The Technical Preview wasn't meant as a free lunch. Now is not the time to be installing third party additions.

[DConnell Member]

I hope they go metro everything! The more metro the better!

 

 

 

All you metro haters can go to osx and maybe it might get that 7-8 percent market share. LMAO

 

I don't.

 

While I love Modern and vastly prefer the Screen to the Menu, I still use the desktop and believe both sides have value and use on all the machines I use. I like the flexibility of being able to use both Modern and desktop with no more than a click or a tap to switch, or even side by side.

 

What I hope for is the flexibility for all parties to work as they choose. All the "kill Metro" and "kill the desktop" talk is counterproductive. MS isn't going to do either, so let's focus on what we know they are going to do!

[Order_66]

Anti-consumer -- you mean the part where they're listening to those consumers and giving them what they want? You know, return of the start menu

 

Yes, and they did such a great job of listening that a large number of people are trying to bypass it in favor of classic shell.

 

As I said before, a company that actually listens to its customers would not be facing these issues.

[Order_66]

They're working on trying to improve Windows. 

 

I don't see this half-baked start menu in windows 10 as an improvement and obviously a large number of others don't like it either or they wouldn't be trying to bypass it with classic shell.

[nosense]

Ya, i was being sarcastic. Win 10 should be  a good bridge between desktop\laptop and tablets.

I don't.

 

While I love Modern and vastly prefer the Screen to the Menu, I still use the desktop and believe both sides have value and use on all the machines I use. I like the flexibility of being able to use both Modern and desktop with no more than a click or a tap to switch, or even side by side.

 

What I hope for is the flexibility for all parties to work as they choose. All the "kill Metro" and "kill the desktop" talk is counterproductive. MS isn't going to do either, so let's focus on what we know they are going to do!

[Mr. Gibs]

I don't see this half-baked start menu in windows 10 as an improvement and obviously a large number of others don't like it either or they wouldn't be trying to bypass it with classic shell.

Then use it and PROVIDE FEEDBACK. That's why they're forcing you to use it and that's the whole purpose of a TECHNICAL PREVIEW.

Why is it so hard to understand that?

[Max Norris]

Yes, and they did such a great job of listening that a large number of people are trying to bypass it in favor of classic shell.

And yet they are listening. Arrogance and contempt would have been doing nothing at all, then your little speech would have been applicable. But seeing as they did listen, well you might want to find some new adjectives, those are getting stale.

Fun fact too, some people like to customize no matter what. Last time I personally used the built in launcher? 7? XP? No, 2K. Was it arrogance and contempt for all those years? Another fun fact, it's impossible to make everyone happy. They're listening though... Arrogance would have been not listening.. but I guess for some people it really doesn't matter, just need a reason to jump up on that forum soapbox, damned if they do, damned if they don't, it's all about the hate.

And the start menu feedback is a catch 22, how can microsoft learn your "use cases" if the features are simply not there to begin with

That's what feedback is for.. can't give honest feedback if you lie through your teeth and never actually use it now can you?

[Jim K Global Moderator]

I don't see this half-baked start menu in windows 10 as an improvement and obviously a large number of others don't like it either or they wouldn't be trying to bypass it with classic shell.

 

 

I normally agree with you (dislike of the start screen...etc).  However, this is a TP and Microsoft needs feedback about their start menu (and all other areas within 10).  I'm not sure how Microsoft is supposed to improve their start menu if people are using 3rd party menus and not providing feedback (to include other areas within 10).

[The Evil Overlord]

I normally agree with you (dislike of the start screen...etc).  However, this is a TP and Microsoft needs feedback about their start menu (and all other areas within 10).  I'm not sure how Microsoft is supposed to improve their start menu if people are using 3rd party menus and not providing feedback (to include other areas within 10).

I do usually try to avoid threads like these, but from where I'm standing, it seems clear that a message is being sent to Microsoft, if consumers are trying so hard to avoid using the start menu and are trying to get a third party one...

But that's just me

[Mr. Gibs]

I do usually try to avoid threads like these, but from where I'm standing, it seems clear that a message is being sent to Microsoft, if consumers are trying so hard to avoid using the start menu and are trying to get a third party one...

But that's just me

Yes it does but it's not telling Microsoft what's wrong with the start menu, it's just telling them that it's not classic shell.

Using classic shell also means that users aren't testing out bugs with the new start menu, which leads to more problems.

[astropheed Veteran]

[Thread Cleaned]

Stay on topic and keep it friendly. 

[Luc2k]

Yes it does but it's not telling Microsoft what's wrong with the start menu, it's just telling them that it's not classic shell.

Using classic shell also means that users aren't testing out bugs with the new start menu, which leads to more problems.

Using Classic Shell may not be the kind of feedback MS are looking for, but it's feedback nonetheless. Also, I don't know about you, but I don't usually go out of my way to bug-test features I'm not going to use unless it's a job I get paid for.

[starman444]

I see a court case happening

[B.Jay]

Using Classic Shell may not be the kind of feedback MS are looking for, but it's feedback nonetheless.

 

AMEN!

 

If Microsoft has to go as far as to block the installation, though easily circumvented, then they are just being arrogant and proudly displaying "we don't care" (since they are going to that extreme the amount of "ClassicShell" (or whatever Start Menu replacement else) installations must actually be large-ish) nor do they get it that people _obviously_  don't want to deal with their, to return the "favor" from another poster above, half-baked junk of a Start Menu resurrection wanna-be. The native W10TP "Start Menu" is actually several orders worse than ye goode ol' Windows 7 Start Menu.

 

But, we're talking Microsoft here... history tells that they never listened (same as Mark and his slowly sinking Ubuntu ship).

 

To make it clear, I tried Windows 10 TP up to the "crashbear" build and meanwhile obliterated it from my box as it just got worse by each slow-release build. They only stuff in totally useless features (Who needs Cortana? I don't even care about talking with Google Now. Who needs half-baked "Widgets" ("Tiles") that aren't even good enough to trust them with "New E-Mail Notification"?) and don't care about fixing up the unholy mess everyone's complaining about - but they have the time being cocky and blocking installations.

 

They'll never learn.

[Order_66]

AMEN!

 

If Microsoft has to go as far as to block the installation, though easily circumvented, then they are just being arrogant and proudly displaying "we don't care" (since they are going to that extreme the amount of "ClassicShell" (or whatever Start Menu replacement else) installations must actually be large-ish) nor do they get it that people _obviously_  don't want to deal with their, to return the "favor" from another poster above, half-baked junk of a Start Menu resurrection wanna-be. The native W10TP "Start Menu" is actually several orders worse than ye goode ol' Windows 7 Start Menu.

 

But, we're talking Microsoft here... history tells that they never listened (same as Mark and his slowly sinking Ubuntu ship).

 

To make it clear, I tried Windows 10 TP up to the "crashbear" build and meanwhile obliterated it from my box as it just got worse by each slow-release build. They only stuff in totally useless features (Who needs Cortana? I don't even care about talking with Google Now. Who needs half-baked "Widgets" ("Tiles") that aren't even good enough to trust them with "New E-Mail Notification"?) and don't care about fixing up the unholy mess everyone's complaining about - but they have the time being cocky and blocking installations.

 

They'll never learn.

^

this

[Max Norris]

Using Classic Shell may not be the kind of feedback MS are looking for, but it's feedback nonetheless. Also, I don't know about you, but I don't usually go out of my way to bug-test features I'm not going to use unless it's a job I get paid for.

So you want to play with a test build... but not actually test it. Yes, that's helpful, because you know they forced you to install it and all that.

 

But, we're talking Microsoft here... history tells that they never listened (same as Mark and his slowly sinking Ubuntu ship).

Oh yippee, another one who's going to parrot the "they're not listening" nonsense. You actually point out the old style menu (which is obviously a work in progress).. and then claim they're still not listening? Amazing. Nice throwing another company in there for the lulz too. See, big difference between Microsoft and Canonical.. Microsoft actually listened and made changes, may not be perfect but they are listening.. Unity is still that same old mess of a launcher they had since day one. Oh, well they did add an easy toggle to turn off the spam, I guess that's something. Cute but that has nothing to do with the topic, at all.

 

Who needs half-baked "Widgets" ("Tiles") that aren't even good enough to trust them with "New E-Mail Notification"?) and don't care about fixing up the unholy mess everyone's complaining about - but they have the time being cocky and blocking installations.

Then don't use it. You are not "everyone", some people will find it useful. What's the point of updating an OS if there's no actual growth? If new features were never added we'd still be back with Program Manager, oh boy. And congrats on missing the point of the "block" too, another one who apparently scrolls to the end without actually reading a thread.

[Luc2k]

So you want to play with a test build... but not actually test it. Yes, that's helpful, because you know they forced you to install it and all that.

Last I checked MS is not releasing a start menu called Windows 10. The Start Menu is a tiny part out of a bigger whole, and just because I don't want to test that part, does not mean I'm not interested in the rest. I'm not sure how thick one has to be to miss that point.

[Max Norris]

Last I checked MS is not releasing a start menu called Windows 10. The Start Menu is a tiny part out of a bigger whole, and just because I don't want to test that part, does not mean I'm not interested in the rest. I'm not sure how thick one has to be to miss that point.

Or how thick one has to be to again completely miss the freaking point of the build.. using it then intentionally trying to not actually use it is about as counter-productive as it gets. If you don't want to participate, wait for the more public version next year. This one is for testing/debugging the new stuff. Next year is the one that they're releasing to be played with in a general setup.

[Luc2k]

Or how thick one has to be to again completely miss the freaking point of the build.. using it then intentionally trying to not actually use it is about as counter-productive as it gets. If you don't want to participate, wait for the more public version next year. This one is for testing/debugging the new stuff. Next year is the one that they're releasing to be played with in a general setup.

And you still act as if the Start Menu is the only thing new to 10. Also, I'll test what I damn please when I damn please.

[Max Norris]

And you still act as if the Start Menu is the only thing new to 10. Also, I'll test what I damn please when I damn please.

Uh-huh. So what are you "testing" then? It's pretty obvious you're just playing around with it as if it were a free upgrade. Can't wait for the whining posts when 10's released and it's not up to your standards too, because you know, they didn't listen to your feedback and all.   That said.. don't forget what the whole point of this topic is.. the damn start menu. 

[Dot Matrix]

I do usually try to avoid threads like these, but from where I'm standing, it seems clear that a message is being sent to Microsoft, if consumers are trying so hard to avoid using the start menu and are trying to get a third party one...

But that's just me

 

AMEN!

 

If Microsoft has to go as far as to block the installation, though easily circumvented, then they are just being arrogant and proudly displaying "we don't care" (since they are going to that extreme the amount of "ClassicShell" (or whatever Start Menu replacement else) installations must actually be large-ish) nor do they get it that people _obviously_  don't want to deal with their, to return the "favor" from another poster above, half-baked junk of a Start Menu resurrection wanna-be. The native W10TP "Start Menu" is actually several orders worse than ye goode ol' Windows 7 Start Menu.

 

But, we're talking Microsoft here... history tells that they never listened (same as Mark and his slowly sinking Ubuntu ship).

 

To make it clear, I tried Windows 10 TP up to the "crashbear" build and meanwhile obliterated it from my box as it just got worse by each slow-release build. They only stuff in totally useless features (Who needs Cortana? I don't even care about talking with Google Now. Who needs half-baked "Widgets" ("Tiles") that aren't even good enough to trust them with "New E-Mail Notification"?) and don't care about fixing up the unholy mess everyone's complaining about - but they have the time being cocky and blocking installations.

 

They'll never learn.

 

Microsoft is listening. However, they're not interested in moving backwards. Windows XP Start Menu was released over 14 years ago, and was left to rot. It's done with and not coming back, and nor should it. Don't like Live Tiles? Shrink them down to small, or just unpin them, and carry on. That's all you have to do. 

 

The Windows 10 TP already has more features enabled in Start alone than the previous Start Menus has had previously combined. Heck, the Windows 10 Start has more features coming in the form of Continuum, (features which Classic Shell looks to break), and they're not going to remove those. Live Tiles are too much of an important feature. Continuum is too much of an important feature. Dynamic functionality is key, and that's something the classic menu (nor Classic Shell) doesn't have.

 

That being said, they're still looking for your feedback, usage, and crash reports. They can't collect that data with these third party additions running.

[Luc2k]

Uh-huh. So what are you "testing" then? It's pretty obvious you're just playing around with it as if it were a free upgrade. Can't wait for the whining posts when 10's released and it's not up to your standards too, because you know, they didn't listen to your feedback and all.   That said.. don't forget what the whole point of this topic is.. the damn start menu. 

Don't forget to breathe while waiting and last I checked my original post was about Classic Shell, a start menu, and my opinion about it being a kind of feedback for MS, but you started derailing by questioning what I should test.

[Max Norris]

Don't forget to breathe while waiting and last I checked my original post was about Classic Shell, a start menu, and my opinion about it being a kind of feedback for MS, but you started derailing by questioning what I should test.

Not testing it isn't feedback.  It's a cop-out.  They already know some people aren't going to use it, it's painfully obvious that you can't make something that 100% of users are going to like, seriously old news.. do you honestly think otherwise?  Would really love to hear about that OS that nailed it 100% across the board, I've yet to see it.  They don't care about a third party replacement that some people are going to use.. it's a given,  not their concern and not the point of the test.    Also like I originally replied.  Sorry if I type too fast, I still breathe though.

[Order_66]

Microsoft is listening. However, they're not interested in moving backwards. 

 

Microsoft is not listening and the only direction they have been going with windows 10 is backwards by replacing useful things with metro garbage.

 

In the windows 10 start menu where are the cascading menus? where is the 'switch user/lock/sleep/hibernate' ?

 

The truly modern windows 7 start menu had all of this and much more.

[Dot Matrix]

In the windows 10 start menu where are the cascading menus? where is the 'switch user/lock/sleep/hibernate' ?

Cascading menus are a UX nightmare. Microsoft has said as much. Those are done with, just as you'll never see drop downs in Windows again.

 

And the switch user/lock options are available by clicking on your user tile.