win10 Microsoft to block Classic Shell in Windows 10: here is why

[Jim K Global Moderator]

Then ignore/don't use them - tiles (and their usage) has been optional from the beginning.  The same applies to ModernUI applications and games - haven't I been pointing out that, other than evaluation, I hardly use any (and where I DO use them, it tends to be either games or on my notebook)?

 

The reason why I personally use live tiles is for the same reasoning behind the original gadgets (or ActiveDesktop, for that matter) - so I don't have to open the whole big (and relatively porky) Win32 (or even ModernUI) application needlessly.  If there is something that came in that a tile is alerting me to (which is, after all, the purpose behind the tile), I can THEN open the associated application.  There are overlaps between live tiles (the Mail and Notification Center tiles overlap, for example - both can get alerts from Outlook) - however, I'm aware of that, and only pay attention to Outlook-based alerts in the Mail tile.  Still, it's MY choice to use the tiles - I'm perfectly free to ignore them (just as lots of folks were free to ignore gadgets in Vista forward - and did).

And if I am going to see the StartScreen (and the tiles that are normally there) less, then I need a space on mini-Start (which will be the default) where I can tile-watch.  Nobody - least of all Microsoft - is DEMANDING that you use tiles.  I use them because they are useful - if they weren't useful, I would NOT use them - I'd ignore them instead.

 

Quite honestly, I think a lot of you (if not most of you) are quite aware that you are free to NOT use a new feature - what you really want is less choice - a Windows pruned down to the absolute minimum and only for desktops (not tablets, not slates - in most cases, not even for notebooks or laptops).  Windows (as an operating SYSTEM - not an operating environment atop MS-DOS) hasn't been that light ever. (I've pointed out - in this very forum - that it was NT, not 9x, that embraced the first luggables - a rather odd tactic for a workstation and server-based OS.)  Oddly enough, such a niche-ified OS exists - it's called WindowsRT; why is it an even larger failure than Windows 8.x?

 

I was responding to Dot Matrix's comment of "you guys really need to get over your irrational hatred of live tiles".  

 

Whereas...no...I will not (for reasons I've mentioned).  I do, as you commented, ignore them.

[PGHammer]

Very narrow minded of you, I rather use\test before i judge. Continuum woulden't even be a factor if you're mainly on desktop.

I do believe that he is being deliberately contrarian.

 

As opposed to the multifunction/multiplatform track that Windows has taken, he is deliberately arguing in favor of the opposite - a hyperminimalist "niche" Windows aimed entirely at the desktop formfactor.

 

The problem is that we have seen it before - not from Windows, but there HAVE been attempts at a minimalist approach - most notably WindowsRT and iOS; other than niches, they have been rather soundly rejected.  (And even iOS is actually threatening to expand out of the niche that Apple has tried to keep it in - the upcoming iPad Air 2 is actually replacing lower-end MacBooks; does Apple really want that?)

 

Choice - and more of it - is what customers are demanding - not less; even Android (a single-OS market) is showing the effects of that.  (As much as the contrarians are trying to deny that, I see Android (not ChromeOS/Chromium) beginning to encroach on the Windows marketplace post-L, and largely due to Android-x86.org, due to a large familiarity with the application structure and thus zero learning curve - have you run the CURRENT Android 4.4-r2 image from a CD or USB stick Knoppix-style?  An x86 version of 5.x is certainly possible.)

 

There has ALWAYS been this streak of contrarianism in the IT space - however, as much as it has persisted (and even as much as they have contributed) contrarianism, in and of itself, has been given a resounding NYET overall - even, if not especially in IT.

[PGHammer]

I was responding to Dot Matrix's comment of "you guys really need to get over your irrational hatred of live tiles".  

 

Whereas...no...I will not (for reasons I've mentioned).  I do, as you commented, ignore them.

I have nothing against ignoring a feature you won't use - however, you aren't "everybody".  Some folks DO use feature X, even where others do not.  (I have been pointing out, rather bluntly, that I'm not a major ModernUI user on desktop-formfactor PCs - but the picture changes markedly when moving to merely a notebook - not a tablet or slate - and the screen resolution was, in fact, why.) I found myself rather amused that an EXISTING formfactor (not a new one) would change my API habits to that degree, as opposed to a new one - that itself got the brain going again.  How much of an impact does the formfactor of what hardware they use on a daily basis impact opinion on what is "suitable" - that is the question I am asking myself today.  (Back when I used ONLY desktop-formfactor hardware, I normally gave the world of portables - including notebooks and laptops - little attention - now that I live IN that territory, I have to pay more attention to it.

 

It's also why I am asking the contrarians - all of them - about portable hardware.  If they don't use any, how aware are they of what portable hardware users have to deal with on a daily basis?  Do they need the same apotheosis that I had to merely consider portable hardware worthy?

[Jim K Global Moderator]

I have nothing against ignoring a feature you won't use - however, you aren't "everybody".  

 

I'm not sure where I said that???  I respect your opinion but please don't put words in my mouth.

[Eric Veteran]

That's really hilariously far-fetched

"Oh noes, people who code for Windows can't find their arse with both hands, so we need to nanny them and jump over a Windows version right to Windows 10! Else, if their always poorly coded programs make a badly formed version number request, it would explode our Windows!"

 

It definitely is to distance themselves from the Metro/tiles disaster, which is why there isn't any Windows 8-like start screen anymore in Windows 10, they don't want to scare away any more poeple than they already did with Windows 8.

 

Believe what you like, but they're more interested in application compatibility than your opinion on version numbers.

[PGHammer]

I'm not sure where I said that???  I respect your opinion but please don't put words in my mouth.

I was referring to Order_66 (the Chief Contrarian) - not you.  You have made plain that you have your eyes open - he is the one that insists that if he doesn't use a feature, it needs to go away.

 

There are features that I don't use in Windows 8.x (such as touch support) - however, I'm not out there insisting that it needs to go away.

[x-scratch]

good hope they block windowblinds also

[Order_66]

I was referring to Order_66 (the Chief Contrarian) - not you.  You have made plain that you have your eyes open - he is the one that insists that if he doesn't use a feature, it needs to go away.

 

There are features that I don't use in Windows 8.x (such as touch support) - however, I'm not out there insisting that it needs to go away.

 

Do you deliberately lie this much in the real world or just on forums? I never said that at all.

 

Metro is garbage, it is lacking in features and functionality when compared to modern win32 programs, I have demonstrated this many times.

Microsoft is slowly replacing the modern desktop in favor of regressive metro garbage, they have already replaced the modern control panel in favor of a metro version.

They 'threw together' a half-baked start menu laced with even more offending metro garbage.

 

This will continue until everything good that is left in the modern desktop has been replaced with backwards-thinking metro garbage.

 

This has nothing to do with "I don't use this so it needs to go away", if microsoft wants to throw in their metro garbage, fine, leave it up to the user to either use it or make it disappear without a trace, but stop replacing perfectly fine desktop features and functionality with something meant for a phone or tablet thereby forcing consumers into using metro.

[Kazama Levi]

Do you deliberately lie this much in the real world or just on forums? I never said that at all.

 

Metro is garbage, it is lacking in features and functionality when compared to modern win32 programs, I have demonstrated this many times.

Microsoft is slowly replacing the modern desktop in favor of regressive metro garbage, they have already replaced the modern control panel in favor of a metro version.

They 'threw together' a half-baked start menu laced with even more offending metro garbage.

 

This will continue until everything good that is left in the modern desktop has been replaced with backwards-thinking metro garbage.

 

This has nothing to do with "I don't use this so it needs to go away", if microsoft wants to throw in their metro garbage, fine, leave it up to the user to either use it or make it disappear without a trace, but stop replacing perfectly fine desktop features and functionality with something meant for a phone or tablet thereby forcing consumers into using metro.

 

Fully agree. Sadly, Microsoft has a long history of forcing stuff onto people, and of replacing perfectly functional stuff with half-baked crack pipe ideas. Latest example is replacing the desktop and start menu with that abysmal Metro garbage.

Judging from the current tech preview 9879 however, they seem to have realized that people don't like the Metro garbage and removed it, except for a few left-over tiles in the start menu. Let's hope that they have enough sense left in their heads to either also remove these last vestiges of the tiles plague, or otherwise at least give users a simple and quick way to turn off tiles entirely.

[Max Norris]

Let's hope that they have enough sense left in their heads to either also remove these last vestiges of the tiles plague, or otherwise at least give users a simple and quick way to turn off tiles entirely.

Then don't pin any, something like this? (Not my image as I'm not at home, random 3 second search result.) It's literally about as flexible as it could possibly be.. want tiles? Use them. Don't want tiles, don't pin them. Magic, and user choice prevails. Forcing, indeed.

Seriously starting to think some of the biggest critics haven't even tried it.

[nosense]

Windows 10 is all about option you can pin what you want and you also have right click start menu options.

 

Then don't pin any, something like this? (Not my image as I'm not at home, random 3 second search result.) It's literally about as flexible as it could possibly be.. want tiles? Use them. Don't want tiles, don't pin them. Magic, and user choice prevails. Forcing, indeed.


Seriously starting to think some of the biggest critics haven't even tried it.

[Anibal P]

Then don't pin any, something like this? (Not my image as I'm not at home, random 3 second search result.) It's literally about as flexible as it could possibly be.. want tiles? Use them. Don't want tiles, don't pin them. Magic, and user choice prevails. Forcing, indeed.

Seriously starting to think some of the biggest critics haven't even tried it.

 

Some of the biggest critics never will, they are still all pissy that they were forced out of using that steaming pile called XP and will do all they can to make the much improved 8 and 10 into another ugly mess like XP was, best we ignore them, like you do trolls and enjoy the better OS as it is for what it is 

[Kazama Levi]

Then don't pin any, something like this? (Not my image as I'm not at home, random 3 second search result.) It's literally about as flexible as it could possibly be.. want tiles? Use them. Don't want tiles, don't pin them. Magic, and user choice prevails. Forcing, indeed.

 

There wouldn't be a problem if there weren't any tiles by default in the start menu, and they would let people decide if they want them. Whoever wants them could simply add them.

 

However, that's not the case. By default, you get a dozen of these tile infestations forced down your throat, and there's no simple way to get rid of them. Like cockroaches and other vermin, you have to squish those tiles one by one.

[Studio384]

There wouldn't be a problem if there weren't any tiles by default in the start menu, and they would let people decide if they want them. Whoever wants them could simply add them.

 

However, that's not the case. By default, you get a dozen of these tile infestations forced down your throat, and there's no simple way to get rid of them. Like cockroaches and other vermin, you have to squish those tiles one by one.

If you don't like the tiles, then, like said before, don't pin them. Tiles should be pinned by default because, like it or not, they are the future of Windows. WinRT is the new app platform, and Win32 apps will probably get the ability to use Live Tiles too. Deal with it.

 

Also, Microsoft should remove the start menu. People that want it, can use it, instead of forcing it down into our throat.

 

That's your logic right there!

[Max Norris]

There wouldn't be a problem if there weren't any tiles by default in the start menu, and they would let people decide if they want them. Whoever wants them could simply add them.

Oh FFS this is getting beyond ridiculous now. How about all the stuff that pinned to the start menu in previous versions of Windows by default? I don't use Windows Media Player, Write, Magnifier or none of that other garbage, I shouldn't see it! I hate taking those 2 seconds to turn that off. Two seconds of my life wasted. Damn you Microsoft!

Seriously, I think this thread has gone about as low as it can without scraping the earth's core.

[DJGM]

. . . Also, Microsoft should remove the start menu . . .

 

Errr, they already did. Then 3rd party replacement Start Menus came along. Then Microsoft relented and brought back the Start menu in hybrid form.

[Kazama Levi]

If you don't like the tiles, then, like said before, don't pin them. ...

 

It would be certainly nice if that was the case. If Microsoft didn't pin any tiles by default and let the user decide if they want any, that would be great.

Sadly, that's not the case here. You get a dozen tiles forced down your throat, pinned to the start menu by default. That's bad enough already, but there isn't even a simple option like "Turn tiles off completely" to turn them all off at once. You have to do it the hard way and remove them one by one. That's really something worth saying, "Damn you, Microsoft!"

[_neutrino Veteran]

This thread has gotten way off topic.

 

topic has been Locked.