Is Microsoft ignoring the desktop again?

[swanlee]

You guys are crazy, MS is pretty much forcing the desktop on all Win 10 users, I can't beleive they think having the taskbar visible at all times on an 8 inch tablet is a good idea.

 

MS is pretty much chucking a good Tablet GUI because desktop users couldn't hit one botton to bypass the Start Screen on their Desktops.

[simplezz]

MS is pretty much chucking a good Tablet GUI because desktop users couldn't hit one botton to bypass the Start Screen on their Desktops.

Except that it's not a "good tablet GUI". The abysmal sales numbers prove that fact.

[Max Norris]

The desktop isn't a priorty for Microsoft and hasn't been for years. It's a means to an end in order to push its mobile agenda. That was made abundantly clear with Windows 8.

Probably missed all the changes that are in the pipeline specifically regarding improvements to the desktop experience.

Except that it's not a "good tablet GUI". The abysmal sales numbers prove that fact.

Dunno about that, article on the front page says the Surface Pro's are doing very well apparently. As one who owns one, I'd have to say that it is a good tablet GUI.

[HawkMan]

Except that it's not a "good tablet GUI". The abysmal sales numbers prove that fact.

 

Sales numbers does not necessarily reflect the quality of the product and GUI in question. Windows 8.1 is by far the best tablet OS out there atm, as a bonus it works just as great on regular desktops as well. 

 

Sure there are features that could make it better, but for actual usage, it's still the best at the moment. 

[patseguin Global Moderator]

Sales numbers does not necessarily reflect the quality of the product and GUI in question. Windows 8.1 is by far the best tablet OS out there atm, as a bonus it works just as great on regular desktops as well.

Sure there are features that could make it better, but for actual usage, it's still the best at the moment.

I totally disagree with that. For me, iOS is the best tablet OS out there. Android is very close as well.

[Dot Matrix]

I totally disagree with that. For me, iOS is the best tablet OS out there. Android is very close as well.

Cool, enjoy your single tasking OS. I dunno about you, but I'm a multitasker.

[simplezz]

Sales numbers does not necessarily reflect the quality of the product and GUI in question.

They absolutely do reflect the percieved quality of a product. iOS and Android sell in their droves because they work so well. A bad product won't sell. That's a fact.

Windows 8.1 is by far the best tablet OS out there atm

According to whom? You? Clearly the majority don't agree with you. Microsoft just killed RT, and that was a pure Metro UI product, Windows Phone uptake is in the toilet after 4 years, and desktop has been restored for screens 8" and bigger. So to suggest that Windows 8.1 is "the best tablet OS out there" is utterly fantastical.

Dunno about that, article on the front page says the Surface Pro's are doing very well apparently. As one who owns one, I'd have to say that it is a good tablet GUI.

Don't beleive everything you read on Neowin. The profit figure (operating income) is conspiciously absent. And there's a reason for that - It didn't make any. Infact if I had to guess, I'd say it made a substantial loss.

Cool, enjoy your single tasking OS. I dunno about you, but I'm a multitasker.

Then why do you have a Nokia Lumia 920?

[TAZMINATOR]

Cool, enjoy your single tasking OS. I dunno about you, but I'm a multitasker.

 

You can even multitask on iPad. 

[vcfan]

They absolutely do reflect the percieved quality of a product. iOS and Android sell in their droves because they work so well. A bad product won't sell. That's a fact.

hot dogs are a better product than wagyu beef steaks because they sell more.

[simplezz]

hot dogs are a better product than wagyu beef steaks because they sell more.

Apples and Oranges much?

[Max Norris]

Don't beleive everything you read on Neowin. The profit figure (operating income) is conspiciously absent. And there's a reason for that - It didn't make any. Infact if I had to guess, I'd say it made a substantial loss.

If you'd look at the actual report, you'll see the operating income of $7.8 billion. Surface revenue $1.1 billion, up 24%. I don't believe random forum posts either, I go to the source. If it were a "bad" product, it wouldn't be selling at all, never mind growing.

[siah1214]

Except that it's not a "good tablet GUI". The abysmal sales numbers prove that fact.

http://www.maximumpc.com/asus_revenue_hit_record_high_november_strong_transformer_book_t100_sales

 

https://www.neowin.net/news/surface-blossoms-into-a-billion-dollar-buisness-for-microsoft

 

Yeah no one's buying

[simplezz]

If you'd look at the actual report, you'll see the operating income of $7.8 billion. Surface revenue $1.1 billion, up 24%. I don't believe random forum posts either, I go to the source. If it were a "bad" product, it wouldn't be selling at all, never mind growing.

The Surface article has nothing to do with that 7.8 billion figure. That's for the entire company. Where's the operating income for the Surface?

http://www.maximumpc.com/asus_revenue_hit_record_high_november_strong_transformer_book_t100_sales

 

https://www.neowin.net/news/surface-blossoms-into-a-billion-dollar-buisness-for-microsoft

 

Yeah no one's buying

And yet Microsoft never releases sales numbers. I wonder why?

[Max Norris]

The Surface article has nothing to do with that 7.8 billion figure. That's for the entire company. Where's the operating income for the Surface?

EMail their accountants if you need to know the nitty gritty. *Shrug* Numbers don't lie though, you can spin and convolute it any way you want, but if sales are going up, that means more people are buying. If it's tanking as bad as you claim, that wouldn't be happening. It's not rocket science. That's totally ignoring the "background revenue" these devices make.. Office, Bing, the app store, etc etc.

 

And yet Microsoft never releases sales numbers. I wonder why?

99.9% of the world aren't financial analysts or armchair accountants and wouldn't mean a thing? Seriously.. parroting "margins" or "operating income" doesn't make someone an expert with financials. Just to hazard a guess, you'll have to ask them.

[gohpep]

 

Yes, MS made using themes more and more complicated with every Windows release, all the while the hacks required to be able to use themes were getting ever more complicated.

 

XP: simple hack, supports very extravagant themes after that

 

Vista/7: Hack is a good bit more difficult and took a while until it was done. Possibilities for themes are reduced. You can't do the same things you could with XP themes.

 

Win Fail 8: Hack is again more difficult to do, and again took more time until people got it done. At the same time, possibilities for themes are greatly reduced over what was possible in XP.

 

10: Most likely again more difficult to hack in order to use themes, which will probably take people a good while to figure it out. Also, probably again less possibilities of what you can do with themes. Just plain pathetic.

 

Even in the case of themes, you're stuck with what the themes do, you can't customize them, e.g. changing colors, any further - not without hacking the themes, which would require a lot of knowledge about how themes are created etc.

 

 

It's also there in Build 9879. If you could use it regularly, that would at least be a beginning. However, the problem is, MS doesn't allow you to use it for regular themes, because there, all you can change is the title bar color of the active window and taskbar.

In order for you to be able to use that color customization dialog you're showing, you must choose a High Contrast theme, and turning on High Contrast has several nasty side effects, e.g. it totally breaks the display of content in web browsers, IE and Firefox alike (I can make screenshots, if you want).

Therefore, it's impossible to use a High Contrast theme (inseparable requirement for the color configuration) for general use. If there was a possibility to turn High Contrast off while still retaining the ability for full color customization (and not just the window titlebar and taskbar), that would already be a nice start.

 

 

 

 

It's just one of many UI design decisions that have gone very, very wrong. They'd better give us an option to turn this nonsense off.

 

 

 

Like most desktop users, I don't have a microphone. This Cortana is definitely freaking useless, and another thing where they'd better provide an option to turn it off.

uh no, for me, it has been download uxstyle, click install, done. Not complicated at all, and they already have a windows 10 version

[Dot Matrix]

 

Yes, MS made using themes more and more complicated with every Windows release, all the while the hacks required to be able to use themes were getting ever more complicated.

 

XP: simple hack, supports very extravagant themes after that

 

Vista/7: Hack is a good bit more difficult and took a while until it was done. Possibilities for themes are reduced. You can't do the same things you could with XP themes.

 

Win Fail 8: Hack is again more difficult to do, and again took more time until people got it done. At the same time, possibilities for themes are greatly reduced over what was possible in XP.

 

10: Most likely again more difficult to hack in order to use themes, which will probably take people a good while to figure it out. Also, probably again less possibilities of what you can do with themes. Just plain pathetic.

 

Even in the case of themes, you're stuck with what the themes do, you can't customize them, e.g. changing colors, any further - not without hacking the themes, which would require a lot of knowledge about how themes are created etc.

 

 

It's also there in Build 9879. If you could use it regularly, that would at least be a beginning. However, the problem is, MS doesn't allow you to use it for regular themes, because there, all you can change is the title bar color of the active window and taskbar.

In order for you to be able to use that color customization dialog you're showing, you must choose a High Contrast theme, and turning on High Contrast has several nasty side effects, e.g. it totally breaks the display of content in web browsers, IE and Firefox alike (I can make screenshots, if you want).

Therefore, it's impossible to use a High Contrast theme (inseparable requirement for the color configuration) for general use. If there was a possibility to turn High Contrast off while still retaining the ability for full color customization (and not just the window titlebar and taskbar), that would already be a nice start.

 

 

 

 

It's just one of many UI design decisions that have gone very, very wrong. They'd better give us an option to turn this nonsense off.

 

 

 

Like most desktop users, I don't have a microphone. This Cortana is definitely freaking useless, and another thing where they'd better provide an option to turn it off.

You're mad because Microsoft is moving away from shell theming?

[PGHammer]

Oh?  Then why all the issues with low-end Intel chipsets (with integrated graphics) with Vista? (Specifically, the GM8xx and 9xx series - that pair of series got griped about right here on Neowin with both Vista AND 7; didn't underperformance of that same pair of series also spark a lawsuit?)  Has your wishing for nostalgia eroded your memory?  (Look at Neowin's read-only archive to refresh your chemical memory - it apparently has some holes.)

[patseguin Global Moderator]

Cool, enjoy your single tasking OS. I dunno about you, but I'm a multitasker.

I'm running about 10 apps right now.

[Andre S. Veteran]

You're kidding right? Context menus are awful functionality. I'm glad MS agrees, and is moving away from them.

You can't equate nested fly-out menus and context menus, especially when the point of that article is that nested fly-out menus require extreme mousing precision and context menus in general don't.

[patseguin Global Moderator]

It's true that maybe most users don't have a microphone but maybe the inclusion of Cortana will spur more people to get a microphone. I personally have a webcam for video conferencing which gives me a microphone without having some device sitting on my desk.

[Dot Matrix]

How do "Most users" not have a microphone? They're on most mobile devices and laptops today! More people have these devices, than they do desktops.

[ParadiseLost]

Microsoft is moving to a new paradigm where the desktop is fully scalable from <8" to >84" with natural interaction and running apps with interfaces that automatically adapt to the screen size & device type, and this is only possible with the modern/universal app paradigm (as opposed to the old Win32), but the desktop per se is not going anywhere.

 

Except that's not really happening. A "modern" app looks exactly the same on a 9-inch tablet as it does on a 27" non-touch monitor, and that's simply ridiculous. MIcrosoft is not pushing a new paradigm, they're still pushing the same old one size fits all paradigm that they started with Windows 8.

[MikeChipshop Member]

It's true that maybe most users don't have a microphone but maybe the inclusion of Cortana will spur more people to get a microphone. I personally have a webcam for video conferencing which gives me a microphone without having some device sitting on my desk.

 

I don't think this is true at all. In fact pretty much every one i know uses Skype on their computer.

[Dot Matrix]

I believe a device with a microphone is the rule rather the exception. Maybe on desktops most don't, but not very many people use desktops as their daily driver. Lots of people, especially the younger users Microsoft is targeting all have access to tabs and laptops as their drivers. Speaking to Cortana won't be an issue.

[+Fahim S. MVC]

I believe a device with a microphone is the rule rather the exception. Maybe on desktops most don't, but not very many people use desktops as their daily driver. Lots of people, especially the younger users Microsoft is targeting all have access to tabs and laptops as their drivers. Speaking to Cortana won't be an issue.

 

I don't know anyone, but me, who actually has a desktop.  Everyone else is on a laptop.