Is Microsoft ignoring the desktop again?

[argonite]

It's not like Windows suddenly broke guys. Maybe it got uglier for some people, sure, but nobody's ignoring the desktop. The desktop is still there, and will still be the stage upon which Windows 10 launches apps.

[binaryzero]

For the people who actually make a living off Windows (like myself), you'll see how small and insignificant half of the issues in this post are.

 

As I've always said, Enterprise is where the magic is. Home computing is as boring as bat ######. 

[+DKAngel Subscriber²]

no. Windows XP through 7 had a place for a user to install total themes like i posted earlier. or.. if you wanted to just change to a set of new icons, download the icon pack, install and icons would be placed into the correct folder for icons and you would reboot, and change to the icons you liked. some people made fantastic icons.. microsoft could have learned a thing or two from some of those icon/theme developers. many were talented

 

or install a complete theme all together for:

 

this for some reason makes me want to vomit lol this reminds me of litestep back in windows 98

[HawkMan]

January build now available to the Windows Insider Program

Emphasis mine.

 

he'll probably ignore that quote again for the 11tg time....

[Dot Matrix]

no. Windows XP through 7 had a place for a user to install total themes like i posted earlier. or.. if you wanted to just change to a set of new icons, download the icon pack, install and icons would be placed into the correct folder for icons and you would reboot, and change to the icons you liked. some people made fantastic icons.. microsoft could have learned a thing or two from some of those icon/theme developers. many were talented

 

or install a complete theme all together for:

Windows XP needed more work than "installing icons or themes" to run unsigned shell themes. The fact that the XP file system was so easily accessible, quickly became its greatest weakness. Personally, I'm glad Microsoft is moving away from the legacy shell. It's time for something new.

[MikeChipshop Member]

Exactly, the desktop needs to remain usable by desktop users - which is why Metro with its tiles needs to be flushed down the toilet at least on the desktop, because it's a usability nightmare for desktop users.

 

As a desktop user, no they're not and no they don't. Stop confusing your personal opinion with fact.

[Kazama Levi]

January build now available to the Windows Insider Program

You really expect me to take that marketing babble for full? If there was any truth in that, they would've limited their feature removal spree to internal builds, instead of publicly distributing it a preview. But no, they're proudly showing it off: "Look at our new Windows Light, now with even less features! Isn't that great?"

I'm not believing anything of that until I actually see it implemented in an actual, downloadable build.

 

The problem is that the only reason he wants it is due to aesthetics.

...

Do you really think this ridiculous attempt at talking everything down will get you Metro apologists anywhere?

No, the primary reason that speaks against Metro is that it's a usability nightmare on the desktop. This is no surprising, as Metro was only ever intended to be used on touch devices like Windows Phone, for which it was designed. When Windows Phone sales were horribly bad due to Metro (which still hasn't changed, WP share is still at ridiculously low 3% and even declined), they decided to put Metro on the desktop, throwing all desktop users in front of the bus by forcing them to use a touch UI, without alternatives.

This understandably didn't go well for them. Them January 2015 numbers just came out (January 2015 Usage), and even years after its release, adoption rates are ridculously low, only 10% for Windows 8.1 and 3% for 8.0. (Usage numbers for XP are still 19%, for comparison). People simply didn't like an usability nightmare like Metro forced upon them.

 

That Metro is an aesthetical nightmare as well is also true, but it appears only on the sidelines and is totally overshadowed by the usability nightmare of Metro on the desktop.

 

The latest build is not CP, it still Technical Preview...... It's obvious they doing the beta different from windows 8, So ya this throws your last argument out the window.

In your dreams only. I doesn't matter what they call the preview. It's a fact that they choose to show a crippled start menu with many features removed in a publicly distributed preview, rather than in an internal build. They definitely will have their reasons for doing the removal of features publicly - which is most likely that they don't intend to put them back again.

[HawkMan]

he'll probably ignore that quote again for the 11tg time....

 

 

You really expect me to take that marketing babble for full? If there was any truth in that, they would've limited their feature removal spree to internal builds, instead of publicly distributing it a preview. But no, they're proudly showing it off: "Look at our new Windows Light, now with even less features! Isn't that great?"

I'm not believing anything of that until I actually see it implemented in an actual, downloadable build.

 

Do you really think this ridiculous attempt at talking everything down will get you Metro apologists anywhere?

No, the primary reason that speaks against Metro is that it's a usability nightmare on the desktop. This is no surprising, as Metro was only ever intended to be used on touch devices like Windows Phone, for which it was designed. When Windows Phone sales were horribly bad due to Metro (which still hasn't changed, WP share is still at ridiculously low 3% and even declined), they decided to put Metro on the desktop, throwing all desktop users in front of the bus by forcing them to use a touch UI, without alternatives.

This understandably didn't go well for them. Them January 2015 numbers just came out (January 2015 Usage), and even years after its release, adoption rates are ridculously low, only 10% for Windows 8.1 and 3% for 8.0. (Usage numbers for XP are still 19%, for comparison). People simply didn't like an usability nightmare like Metro forced upon them.

 

That Metro is an aesthetical nightmare as well is also true, but it appears only on the sidelines and is totally overshadowed by the usability nightmare of Metro on the desktop.

 

In your dreams only. I doesn't matter what they call the preview. It's a fact that they choose to show a crippled start menu with many features removed in a publicly distributed preview, rather than in an internal build. They definitely will have their reasons for doing the removal of features publicly - which is most likely that they don't intend to put them back again.

 

Sometimes it's like I'm clairvoyant...

[TAZMINATOR]

You really expect me to take that marketing babble for full? If there was any truth in that, they would've limited their feature removal spree to internal builds, instead of publicly distributing it a preview. But no, they're proudly showing it off: "Look at our new Windows Light, now with even less features! Isn't that great?"

I'm not believing anything of that until I actually see it implemented in an actual, downloadable build.

 

Do you really think this ridiculous attempt at talking everything down will get you Metro apologists anywhere?

No, the primary reason that speaks against Metro is that it's a usability nightmare on the desktop. This is no surprising, as Metro was only ever intended to be used on touch devices like Windows Phone, for which it was designed. When Windows Phone sales were horribly bad due to Metro (which still hasn't changed, WP share is still at ridiculously low 3% and even declined), they decided to put Metro on the desktop, throwing all desktop users in front of the bus by forcing them to use a touch UI, without alternatives.

This understandably didn't go well for them. Them January 2015 numbers just came out (January 2015 Usage), and even years after its release, adoption rates are ridculously low, only 10% for Windows 8.1 and 3% for 8.0. (Usage numbers for XP are still 19%, for comparison). People simply didn't like an usability nightmare like Metro forced upon them.

 

That Metro is an aesthetical nightmare as well is also true, but it appears only on the sidelines and is totally overshadowed by the usability nightmare of Metro on the desktop.

 

In your dreams only. I doesn't matter what they call the preview. It's a fact that they choose to show a crippled start menu with many features removed in a publicly distributed preview, rather than in an internal build. They definitely will have their reasons for doing the removal of features publicly - which is most likely that they don't intend to put them back again.

 

You don't know what you are talking about...

 

MS has some time to finish it up before final release... They could put them back or adjust whatever it needs based on the feedback they received.  

 

So stop yapping until the final release and see if you find the features you like in it. If not, too bad and move on.

[siah1214]

Sometimes it's like I'm clairvoyant...

Make sure you bookmark this so that when all the features come back you can rub it in his face. 

[Kazama Levi]

Make sure you bookmark this so that when all the features come back you can rub it in his face. 

 

Careful, this can go both sides. If they don't put back all of the features, I'll rub it in your face

[Ian W]

You really expect me to take that marketing babble for full? If there was any truth in that, they would've limited their feature removal spree to internal builds, instead of publicly distributing it a preview. But no, they're proudly showing it off: "Look at our new Windows Light, now with even less features! Isn't that great?"

Do you see the absurdity in your post? The very fact that the developers didn't limit their "feature removal spree" with a public release strongly suggests that they intend to reinstate the features at a later date. They have already announced publicly that this is their intention. If the developers truly desired to permanently remove the features, they could have (and should have) done so in a build that wouldn't receive as much publicity, so as not to put the company under a microscope.

[nosense]

Get your facts right buddy, Before posting...Wrong info is wrong info. 

 

Ignoring the facts and parroting the same thing over and over. I guess that's your M.O.

 

You really expect me to take that marketing babble for full? If there was any truth in that, they would've limited their feature removal spree to internal builds, instead of publicly distributing it a preview. But no, they're proudly showing it off: "Look at our new Windows Light, now with even less features! Isn't that great?"

I'm not believing anything of that until I actually see it implemented in an actual, downloadable build.
 

Do you really think this ridiculous attempt at talking everything down will get you Metro apologists anywhere?

No, the primary reason that speaks against Metro is that it's a usability nightmare on the desktop. This is no surprising, as Metro was only ever intended to be used on touch devices like Windows Phone, for which it was designed. When Windows Phone sales were horribly bad due to Metro (which still hasn't changed, WP share is still at ridiculously low 3% and even declined), they decided to put Metro on the desktop, throwing all desktop users in front of the bus by forcing them to use a touch UI, without alternatives.

This understandably didn't go well for them. Them January 2015 numbers just came out (January 2015 Usage), and even years after its release, adoption rates are ridculously low, only 10% for Windows 8.1 and 3% for 8.0. (Usage numbers for XP are still 19%, for comparison). People simply didn't like an usability nightmare like Metro forced upon them.
 
That Metro is an aesthetical nightmare as well is also true, but it appears only on the sidelines and is totally overshadowed by the usability nightmare of Metro on the desktop.
 

In your dreams only. I doesn't matter what they call the preview. It's a fact that they choose to show a crippled start menu with many features removed in a publicly distributed preview, rather than in an internal build. They definitely will have their reasons for doing the removal of features publicly - which is most likely that they don't intend to put them back again.

[patseguin Global Moderator]

this for some reason makes me want to vomit lol this reminds me of litestep back in windows 98

I can't find the op. That is pretty cool. Are those object desktop apps that do those themes? Certainly more attractive than the drab single color flat appearance of a Windows 10.

[Defcon]

The guts of Windows are stil the same and no attempt has been made AFAICT to fix them.

 

Let's take the screen resolution as one example - 

 

- there is still no per-monitor dpi support, a very basic requirement. Instead there's the very confusing screen resolution 'apply to all monitors' nonsense.

- when I make text bigger/smaller, why the hell do I need to sign out and login again?

- why do we still have 2 menus for 'screen resolution' and 'personalize'. Why can't we have a sane 'Display Prefs' dialog box. Why haven't any of the settings screen been updated?

 

Also, mixing Metro style dialogs in the regular UI (like file picker, network dialog) was a usability nightmare and frankly shoddy work with no design, its as if they just gave up. There is no sign of that getting fixed in Win 10 either.

 

And I really like how people are saying 'no issues, everything runs' as a positive now ?!!! Of course everything is going to run, there's hardly anything new in the underlying OS. If stuff breaks, that's a cause for concern, like 9879 and the explorer.exe crashes. But there's no reason to celebrate that the current build is stable when it cuts so many features. 

 

I mean, are we at the stage where we are happy for minor things like new icons?!

[blerk]

The guts of Windows are stil the same and no attempt has been made AFAICT to fix them.

 

Let's take the screen resolution as one example - 

 

- there is still no per-monitor dpi support, a very basic requirement. Instead there's the very confusing screen resolution 'apply to all monitors' nonsense.

- when I make text bigger/smaller, why the hell do I need to sign out and login again?

- why do we still have 2 menus for 'screen resolution' and 'personalize'. Why can't we have a sane 'Display Prefs' dialog box. Why haven't any of the settings screen been updated?

 

Also, mixing Metro style dialogs in the regular UI (like file picker, network dialog) was a usability nightmare and frankly shoddy work with no design, its as if they just gave up. There is no sign of that getting fixed in Win 10 either.

 

And I really like how people are saying 'no issues, everything runs' as a positive now ?!!! Of course everything is going to run, there's hardly anything new in the underlying OS. If stuff breaks, that's a cause for concern, like 9879 and the explorer.exe crashes. But there's no reason to celebrate that the current build is stable when it cuts so many features. 

 

I mean, are we at the stage where we are happy for minor things like new icons?!

Oh none of that is important, as has been made abundantly clear by some in this thread. 

 

The only thing that matters is getting rid of metro and tiles. 

 

Remember, tiles are so utterly revolting that some poor people become physically ill at the sight of them, resolution scaling be damned.  

 

 

On your last few points:

- What is this metro file picker UI in the regular desktop?

 

- Personalise and screen resolution are fairly intuitive groupings IMO. I don't really see a problem. What I'd much rather see is a 'Display Preferences' that controls resolution, colour calibration and other relevant things in one location. 

(On the topic of colour calibration - now that is a usability nightmare. Applying .icc colour profiles is a stupidly convoluted process. That sort of thing is hopefully fixed in the new control panel)

[Defcon]

Oh none of that is important, as has been made abundantly clear by some in this thread. 

 

The only thing that matters is getting rid of metro and tiles. 

 

Remember, tiles are so utterly revolting that some poor people become physically ill at the sight of them, resolution scaling be damned.  

 

 

On your last few points:

- What is this metro file picker UI in the regular desktop?

 

- Personalise and screen resolution are fairly intuitive groupings IMO. I don't really see a problem. What I'd much rather see is a 'Display Preferences' that controls resolution, colour calibration and other relevant things in one location. 

(On the topic of colour calibration - now that is a usability nightmare. Applying .icc colour profiles is a stupidly convoluted process. That sort of thing is hopefully fixed in the new control panel)

 

The Windows team writes huge blog posts on things like better scaling and 4K support in Windows, yet they still haven't implemented per monitor dpi and I doubt they ever will.

 

The file picker is e.g. when you select 'open with' for a file in Explorer and 'choose default program'. A Metro dialog box then comes up. It is all very weird.

[blerk]

The Windows team writes huge blog posts on things like better scaling and 4K support in Windows, yet they still haven't implemented per monitor dpi and I doubt they ever will.

 

The file picker is e.g. when you select 'open with' for a file in Explorer and 'choose default program'. A Metro dialog box then comes up. It is all very weird.

 

Oh that dialogue box 

[evieluvsrainbows]

The Windows team writes huge blog posts on things like better scaling and 4K support in Windows, yet they still haven't implemented per monitor dpi and I doubt they ever will.

 

The file picker is e.g. when you select 'open with' for a file in Explorer and 'choose default program'. A Metro dialog box then comes up. It is all very weird.

That doesn't happen when using Chrome or any other program on my end, Defcon. I think it's just you. And Defcon, could you please fill in your profile and get a profile picture? Your profile looks dull when it's not filled in. So, could you please upload a profile picture and fill in your profile?

[siah1214]

That doesn't happen when using Chrome or any other program on my end, Defcon. I think it's just you. And Defcon, could you please fill in your profile and get a profile picture? Your profile looks dull when it's not filled in. So, could you please upload a profile picture and fill in your profile?

Click on any file without a program associated with it (ie rename a notepad file from *.txt to *.randomextension) and you'll get the modern UI dialog. 

 

Are you going to lecture me about not having a filled out profile or are you just weird to defcon? 

[PGHammer]

The guts of Windows are stil the same and no attempt has been made AFAICT to fix them.

 

Let's take the screen resolution as one example - 

 

- there is still no per-monitor dpi support, a very basic requirement. Instead there's the very confusing screen resolution 'apply to all monitors' nonsense.

- when I make text bigger/smaller, why the hell do I need to sign out and login again?

- why do we still have 2 menus for 'screen resolution' and 'personalize'. Why can't we have a sane 'Display Prefs' dialog box. Why haven't any of the settings screen been updated?

 

Also, mixing Metro style dialogs in the regular UI (like file picker, network dialog) was a usability nightmare and frankly shoddy work with no design, its as if they just gave up. There is no sign of that getting fixed in Win 10 either.

 

And I really like how people are saying 'no issues, everything runs' as a positive now ?!!! Of course everything is going to run, there's hardly anything new in the underlying OS. If stuff breaks, that's a cause for concern, like 9879 and the explorer.exe crashes. But there's no reason to celebrate that the current build is stable when it cuts so many features. 

 

I mean, are we at the stage where we are happy for minor things like new icons?!

Because - at a minimum - everything that ran in the old version HAS to run in the new version?

 

If application breakage occurs between versions of an OS, that is a minus - period.  (Was it not true that the Windows 7 Consumer Preview was whacked - properly - for exactly that?  Was it not the case that the Windows 8 DEVELOPER Preview was whacked due to a mere TWO applications breaking?  And both sets of whackage happened right here on Neowin.)  In the case of 10's Technical Previews (the ones released to the Insiders) that hasn't happened.  One the gaming side, the issue is with one set of games with a common feature (all from the same developer/publisher) - on the application side, there has been zero application breakage at all.  In short, not merely a better score than the preceding OS at the same stage of development, but the best in terms of ANY Windows OS at this stage of development.

 

The fact that we (as testers) are reduced to aesthetic nitpicks is saying that Microsoft got a lot RIGHT as far as the nuts and bolts (and screws and washers) of Windows 10's construction.  (And this was supposed to be impossible.)  What worries the critics is that same issue - they can't complain that desktop-application performance is ANY worse, because, unfortunately for them, it isn't.

The absolute BEST those same critics can hope for is that Microsoft screws up in the aesthetics department, because the underlying construction is not merely as good as Windows 8.1, but even somewhat better.  (In short, we aren't talking chicken eggs on the face, but turkey eggs - or even ostrich or emu eggs (if they weren't already extinct, we'd be talking pterydacto eggs); that is a LOT of egg salad, folks.)

 

In other words, it's major face-saving time for the critics.

[onewarmslime]

siah1214, on 03 Feb 2015 - 02:04, said:

Click on any file without a program associated with it (ie rename a notepad file from *.txt to *.randomextension) and you'll get the modern UI dialog. 

 

Are you going to lecture me about not having a filled out profile or are you just weird to defcon? 

yeah it happens and it's really really annoying. not nearly as annoying as the "network panel" though...it really bugs me thet they havent patched these out but I doubt they ever will now

[Ve7878]

DirectDraw emulation is still broken in the Windows 10 previews. This has been broken since 8.0.

[timbo_sf2]

Click on any file without a program associated with it (ie rename a notepad file from *.txt to *.randomextension) and you'll get the modern UI dialog. 

 

Are you going to lecture me about not having a filled out profile or are you just weird to defcon? 

care to explain why it is annoying? It's not annoying for me, unless it's close itself when I click anywhere

[siah1214]

care to explain why it is annoying? It's not annoying for me, unless it's close itself when I click anywhere

I don't think it's annoying, just telling Kamran how to get it to appear. I'll be happy when all the dialogs are modern.