dipsylalapo Supervisor Posted March 26, 2015 Supervisor Share Posted March 26, 2015 So looks like this incident has already had an effect on other airlines. Easyjet mandating two crew in cockpit at all times. Javascript is not enabled or refresh the page to view. Click here to view the Tweet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skiver Veteran Posted March 26, 2015 Veteran Share Posted March 26, 2015 Most cabin crew are female. You can dispute this if you like. We have an axe in the cockpit. You are now enlightened. There is a method of shutting off the engines that makes them unrecoverable. In my airline at least, the cabin crew are constantly busy selling things. If one pilot gets incapacitated, e.g. heart attack, you need the other pilot to have the ability to take control. Things are after lost when it comes to text, but you seem a little shirty with me in this response, I'm not trying to be funny here I'm stating my experiences. I've flown quite a few times in my life, far more than most of my friends and family and as far a field (I'm from the UK) as Argentina and China. I'm saying that the vast majority of flights I've been on, there have been at least one male cabin crew. I'm not disputing what you're saying because I "know more" I'm sharing my opinion based on my experiences. I got the fact from you're original post that you have an axe in the cockpit, my request was to understand why? Like FMM asking about the permanent shut down, my questions are out of curiosity, I'm not trying to catch you out here. I assume you are a pilot, or at least were by your responses so I'm keen to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siah1214 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Why would there be a means to disable the engines during flight? I can understand the need to shut them down if there's a fire, but a permanent shutdown? Any number of reasons, torque runaways, rollbacks, loss of oil pressure, engine over temperature, or like you said, engine fire. Usually you would shut them down to prevent more catastrophic damage or prevent a fire. I'm genuinely quite shocked by that, I would have expected more around the $80-100K. Like I said, I'm generally pretty wrong in most of my assumptions It's sick really. I do not recommend this profession for anyone unless you really, really love it. And I refuse to work for airlines until they fix their wage problem. It's killed people before: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colgan_Air_Flight_3407 The Evil Overlord 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skiver Veteran Posted March 26, 2015 Veteran Share Posted March 26, 2015 Any number of reasons, torque runaways, rollbacks, loss of oil pressure, engine over temperature, or like you said, engine fire. Usually you would shut them down to prevent more catastrophic damage or prevent a fire. It's sick really. I do not recommend this profession for anyone unless you really, really love it. And I refuse to work for airlines until they fix their wage problem. It's killed people before: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colgan_Air_Flight_3407 None of those reasons sound like a reason to shut it down without a way for recovery though? The post FFM responded to made it sound like it was a kill the engines in a way they literally won't fire back up without some sort of maintenance. Over Temp for example sounds more like a reason to shut down temporarily? I always wanted to be a pilot as a kid but I was always led to believe you had to be some sort of math wizz and I just didn't have the patience for school. I still tell myself one day I'll try and learn to fly but I think that will always remain a dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Raze Subscriber² Posted March 26, 2015 Subscriber² Share Posted March 26, 2015 FYI on pilot salaries - http://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/airline-and-commercial-pilots.htm#tab-5 http://www.clearedtodream.org/BecomeAnAirlinePilot/TypesofAirlinePilotJobs/tabid/1273/Default.aspx http://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/airline-and-commercial-pilots.htm#tab-1 Skiver, The Evil Overlord and Roger H. 3 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerzdawg Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Haha no. Regional airline pilots make $15-20k a year, starting. Once you've been in the industry for 20+ years you might start making $80-100k but there's a long road to get there and if you're making $30-40k after school you're doing really well. I hope this is a a joke or very wrong. A CSR answering phone calls can make 35k a year with no college education. You are telling me someone who has 100s of people lives in their hands at a time is making what someone at mcds can make? edit - thanks Raze.. that made me feel much better. perhaps siah is from an area where that is alot of money? The Evil Overlord 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonalste Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Why would there be a means to disable the engines during flight? I can understand the need to shut them down if there's a fire, but a permanent shutdown? The engine fire pushbutton permanently servers fuel, hydraulics and other vital stuff from the engine to avoid some really nasty stuff happening after severe engine damage or an engine fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonalste Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 None of those reasons sound like a reason to shut it down without a way for recovery though? The post FFM responded to made it sound like it was a kill the engines in a way they literally won't fire back up without some sort of maintenance. Over Temp for example sounds more like a reason to shut down temporarily? I always wanted to be a pilot as a kid but I was always led to believe you had to be some sort of math wizz and I just didn't have the patience for school. I still tell myself one day I'll try and learn to fly but I think that will always remain a dream. Temperature issues, no. Huge Bird shatters the fan blades, or engine catches on fire, yes. You should learn to fly. You dont need to be a genius, just determined and enthusiastic. Don't go in it for the money though, or you might end up like this germanwings guy. Think what you like. When your loan repayments are more than Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theyarecomingforyou Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 So looks like this incident has already had an effect on other airlines. Easyjet mandating two crew in cockpit at all times. Great, that means prices will be going up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonalste Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Great, that means prices will be going up. They'll use a cabin crew, so it won't cost extra But will reduce sales I expect. As I say, it'll be ineffective, but I imagine it is more for passenger peace of mind than any actual benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LogicalApex MVC Posted March 26, 2015 MVC Share Posted March 26, 2015 I've been wrong on these forums more often than not, but I thought Commercial pilots earned a fortune?! A common misconception. Pilots are very poorly paid and overworked... Until they top out in their career. Doesn't anyone remember the pleas to Congress made by the hero pilot Skully? The complaints over poor pay for pilots is nothing new... Regional airlines are the worst in the pay scale and more and more flights are being pushed to subcontracted regional carriers... Also, the axe in the cockpit is supposed to be for breaking windows out in a crash scenario. siah1214 and The Evil Overlord 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siah1214 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 FYI on pilot salaries - http://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/airline-and-commercial-pilots.htm#tab-5 http://www.clearedtodream.org/BecomeAnAirlinePilot/TypesofAirlinePilotJobs/tabid/1273/Default.aspx http://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/airline-and-commercial-pilots.htm#tab-1 This is incredibly misleading. Look at the median salary for regional airlines, where most pilots are starting their careers. http://work.chron.com/average-salary-regional-airline-pilot-5985.html Note the floor is $16,500 for a first officer. Captains make a bit more but that's after 3-4 years in the right seat. I hope this is a a joke or very wrong. A CSR answering phone calls can make 35k a year with no college education. You are telling me someone who has 100s of people lives in their hands at a time is making what someone at mcds can make? edit - thanks Raze.. that made me feel much better. perhaps siah is from an area where that is alot of money? See above. No, I'm from the US, where $35k yearly with $12k a year student loan repayments makes life incredibly difficult. If you work for a major airline, that's when you start to see six figures, but again, that's after 10 years of slogging it out flight instructing for minimum wage or flying a regional jet for $20k a year. A common misconception. Pilots are very poorly paid and overworked... Until they top out in their career. Doesn't anyone remember the pleas to Congress made by the hero pilot Skully? The complaints over poor pay for pilots is nothing new... Regional airlines are the worst in the pay scale and more and more flights are being pushed to subcontracted regional carriers... Also, the axe in the cockpit is supposed to be for breaking windows out in a crash scenario. Fantastic articles, thanks for posting. I'm sick of this misconception that pilots get exhorbitant paychecks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siah1214 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Do you think I don't also have rent/mortgage payments, car payments, has and electric, mobile phone, etc to pay for too? So take what you pay out each month and add Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonalste Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I'm curious, do airline pilots in Europe get paid only when the plane leaves the gate like in the US? So you end up with a 10 hour "work day" that you get paid for 4-6 hours of, since most of it is spent sitting in the airport or commuting. What a racket. I'm glad I'm staying out of airlines. Thays correct. To be fair, actually now my salary is fine and I'm being paid enough, as ice worked for my airline for coming up to 5 years. But for the first 3years, things were extremely difficult. I remember being in standby for weeks, but only actually getting in 11 flying hours one month. I earned about 825, before they then take tax and national insurance. I couldn't even afford my rent that month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Channel 4 news hinted at the co pilot being an extremist, and as I'm completely flu'd up, and don't have the patience to look through the news online, I'll just ask, anyone else heard this, or more? I'd take that with a super-tanker full of salt if I were you. Highly likely it's just media BS trying to stir up more FUD. The Evil Overlord 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
typu Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I didnt read all in this thread but the latest news is that the german co-pilot did suicide. he shut the cockpit door when the pilot went to the toilet. he could not get back in. in the meanwhile, the co-pilot manipulated the auto-pilot for a descent flight into the french alps. horrific development in this tragedy. this was "confirmed" by the french state authorities. they base that on the voice recorder they found. ps: there is no evidence whatsoever that he was an extremist or involved in terrorism. that is pure speculation and not backed up by any piece of information retrieved so far. The Evil Overlord 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Overlord Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I'd take that with a super-tanker full of salt if I were you. Highly likely it's just media BS trying to stir up more FUD.Fair enough, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I didnt read all in this thread but the latest news is that the german co-pilot did suicide. he shut the cockpit door when the pilot went to the toilet. he could not get back in. in the meanwhile, the co-pilot manipulated the auto-pilot for a descent flight into the french alps. horrific development in this tragedy. this was "confirmed" by the french state authorities. they base that on the voice recorder they found. TBH, I wish they wouldn't refer to it as suicide. Sure, that's what it was, but far more importantly, it was mass murder! Suicide illicits feelings of sympathy for the "victim", and this son of a female dog deserves NONE, no matter what personal issues he was having. If your life is so crap that you feel that you have to end it all, go ahead; but if you take anyone with you, you're a selfish bastard and deserve nothing but utter contempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
typu Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 TBH, I wish they wouldn't refer to it as suicide. Sure, that's what it was, but far more importantly, it was mass murder! Suicide illicits feelings of sympathy for the "victim", and this son of a female dog deserves NONE, no matter what personal issues he was having. If your life is so crap that you feel that you have to end it all, go ahead; but if you take anyone with you, you're a selfish bastard and deserve nothing but utter contempt. yes. thats the technical term only. the result of course is way more tragic and results in mass murder, as you state correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Raze Subscriber² Posted March 26, 2015 Subscriber² Share Posted March 26, 2015 This is incredibly misleading. Look at the median salary for regional airlines, where most pilots are starting their careers. http://work.chron.com/average-salary-regional-airline-pilot-5985.html Note the floor is $16,500 for a first officer. Captains make a bit more but that's after 3-4 years in the right seat. See above. No, I'm from the US, where $35k yearly with $12k a year student loan repayments makes life incredibly difficult. If you work for a major airline, that's when you start to see six figures, but again, that's after 10 years of slogging it out flight instructing for minimum wage or flying a regional jet for $20k a year. Fantastic articles, thanks for posting. I'm sick of this misconception that pilots get exhorbitant paychecks. Misleading? Those would be credible sources I would think. In fact they support your previous remarks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siah1214 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Misleading? Those would be credible sources I would think. In fact they support your previous remarks. It's misleading because when you click, for example, the 3rd link, it shows median pay being ~$100k. So when people see that they will think "oh, pilots make $100k". That's what I meant, anyway. The Evil Overlord 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
typu Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 for those interested, there is a report from the Federal Aviation Administration from the USA. Aircraft-Assisted Pilot Suicides in the United States, 2003-2012 http://ntl.bts.gov/lib/51000/51100/51188/201402.pdf such tragedies (due to suicides) are extremely rare, but more common than the report suggests tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Raze Subscriber² Posted March 26, 2015 Subscriber² Share Posted March 26, 2015 It's misleading because when you click, for example, the 3rd link, it shows median pay being ~$100k. So when people see that they will think "oh, pilots make $100k". That's what I meant, anyway. I understand, yes it would appear to be that very easily. For the time, education and responsibilities involved being a pilot, I would expect salaries to be better. The Evil Overlord 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
typu Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 latest news: friends of the co-pilot state that he took a time off in 2009 due to depressions and a burnout-syndrome. germanwings confirmed that he took a time-out but they couldnt tell why due to medical secrecy things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni_78 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I've always thought flying is the safest means of transport. Today I saw an article stating the same, but at the end there was "if measured by travelled kilometres". So it's not if measuring by number of trips for example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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