At least 17 dead in Florida school shooting, law enforcement says

[FloatingFatMan]

23 minutes ago, techbeck said:

Nope.  And as long as they are responsible, I do not see a problem.  Open carry is allowed and these shootings are done by cowards who hide their weapons until the time when they way to inflict damage.  Not the gun you see that you have to worry about.

Their right to openly carry weapons like that should end at the point my right to feel safe in a public environment begins.

 

I would not feel even remotely safe seeing people walking around armed like that.

 

[jnelsoninjax]

 

[+JHBrown Subscriber¹]

1 hour ago, FloatingFatMan said:

Their right to openly carry weapons like that should end at the point my right to feel safe in a public environment begins.

 

I would not feel even remotely safe seeing people walking around armed like that.

 

Every time I visit an old friend of mine in Phoenix, Arizona, I do feel a little uncomfortable/unsafe with some of the open carry residents there. I am not afraid of guns, I've handle many throughout my career in the military, but you should see some of the people carrying those weapons. Yeah, never judge a book by its cover, but damn. No offense to any Arizonians here. I do love the State.

[+Warwagon MVC]

2 hours ago, jnelsoninjax said:

 

I'll give ya that, it does seem to always be a white kid.

[FloatingFatMan]

2 hours ago, JHBrown said:

Every time I visit an old friend of mine in Phoenix, Arizona, I do feel a little uncomfortable/unsafe with some of the open carry residents there. I am not afraid of guns, I've handle many throughout my career in the military, but you should see some of the people carrying those weapons. Yeah, never judge a book by its cover, but damn. No offense to any Arizonians here. I do love the State.

As far as I'm concerned, if you're walking around with an openly visible gun and you're not a cop, you're not safe and I don't want to be anywhere near you.

 

Hell, first time I went to Florida when I was a kid, the neighbour across the road (my dad had bought a house in a town called "Holiday"), came over to say hi etc, and offered to shoot any trespassers he saw on our property when we weren't there...  He said he was an ex-cop... That didn't make ANY of us feel safe!

 

[sc302 Veteran]

On 2/14/2018 at 9:18 PM, warwagon said:

I want to know is, what has changed in the last 20 years that has created such evil demented individuals who wish to carry out such horrible shootings, Bad Parenting?

Media. 

 

School shootings happened before you were born/before you knew what a gun was.  My highschool was known in my township to have a shooting happen in the 70's.  What has changed is social media.

 

You can also probably relate it to neglectful parenting.  It isn't necessarily bad parenting that leads to this, imo, it is not talking to your children and not helping them find what they like (sports, hobbies, etc) and helping them flourish in it. 

 

You can also relate it to the same thing that causes children to commit suicide, bullying, appreciation from peers, peer pressure, etc.  Imagine feeling so low that you want to kill yourself, switch it around a little and that you feel so low that you want to stop those from making you feel that way.   

 

The issue, as I see it, is that the cat is out of the bag and it is known what to do.  It can get much worse, just need someone to use their brain a little vs follow what others have done in the media....I can think of a few interesting ways that this could get much worse and it only take a little bit of planning to do it.

 

Watch Evan below, if work is against guns, it probably NSFW...otherwise it delivers a clear message and is SFW.

 

 

 

[Yogurth]

5 hours ago, techbeck said:

Nope.  And as long as they are responsible, I do not see a problem.  Open carry is allowed and these shootings are done by cowards who hide their weapons until the time when they way to inflict damage.  Not the gun you see that you have to worry about.

I do not agree. Carrying weapons like this can cause accidental firings, owner can easily forget to lock the weapon, someone can grab that AK or that shotgun and use it...I can think of few more incidents with this behavior that can't happen if weapon is not carried in this manner. It is just plain terrible and irresponsible.

[Emn1ty]

1 hour ago, Yogurth said:

I do not agree. Carrying weapons like this can cause accidental firings, owner can easily forget to lock the weapon, someone can grab that AK or that shotgun and use it...I can think of few more incidents with this behavior that can't happen if weapon is not carried in this manner. It is just plain terrible and irresponsible.

Accidental firings are extremely rare and more often than not happen either at home or on a firing range, two places where "open carry" has no relevance.

[ATLien_0]

 

Very powerful message here. I feel like now we are finally starting to talk about changes that need to be made. 

[Rippleman]

6 hours ago, techbeck said:

Nope.  And as long as they are responsible, I do not see a problem.

This is the actual problem, you not having a problem with it. 

[techbeck]

1 hour ago, Yogurth said:

I do not agree. Carrying weapons like this can cause accidental firings, owner can easily forget to lock the weapon, someone can grab that AK or that shotgun and use it...I can think of few more incidents with this behavior that can't happen if weapon is not carried in this manner. It is just plain terrible and irresponsible.

I said responsible gun owners.  If you are walking a round with weapons without the safety on, you are not being responsible.  Store owners can prohibit you from coming inside if you have a weapon.

[Rippleman]

6 hours ago, FloatingFatMan said:

Their right to openly carry weapons like that should end at the point my right to feel safe in a public environment begins.

 

I would not feel even remotely safe seeing people walking around armed like that.

 

Same, even being from Alberta (wild west) if I was eating alone I would get up and exit as soon as I could. With my family, it would expedited even faster.

[techbeck]

Just now, Rippleman said:

This is the actual problem, you not having a problem with it. 

subjective.  I am more afraid of the person behind the weapon than the weapon itself.  If you grew up in the US, specially where there is lots of hunting, then guns are second nature to you.  You learn to respect them and handle them properly.

[Rippleman]

5 minutes ago, techbeck said:

I said responsible gun owners.

How do you make the determination? You don't know them from a hole in the ground. You don't know their mental history, you don't know their criminal history, you don't know their intention and dozens more "you don't knows". You don't even know if they are allowed to have a weapon at all but yet you trust a stranger with a killing tool strapped on their back. How would you feel if it was a suicide vest? You don't know if they intend on using it right?

3 minutes ago, techbeck said:

I am more afraid of the person behind the weapon than the weapon itself.  

THEY are the ones with the weapon. Why would anyone be afraid of an inanimate object? 

[Rippleman]

5 minutes ago, techbeck said:

subjective.  I am more afraid of the person behind the weapon than the weapon itself.  If you grew up in the US, specially where there is lots of hunting, then guns are second nature to you.  You learn to respect them and handle them properly.

I have guns, grew up in a household with guns. I don't trust people I don't know with my life. You shouldn't either. We have a shooting range set up here that is used a couple times a week by friends and family. I am comfortable with guns. 

[techbeck]

Just now, Rippleman said:

I have guns, grew up in a household with guns. I don't trust people I don't know with my life. You shouldn't either.

If I didnt trust people for the possibility that something may happen, I should just stay inside and do not leave my house.   I could get in to a car crash today on the way home.  Or eat something, get food poisoning and keel over.  I could get in a plane and the pilot is drunk (which does happen) and the plane goes down. 

5 minutes ago, Rippleman said:

 How would you feel if it was a suicide vest? You don't know if they intend on using it right?

 

That is just about as silly argument as those who say comparing cars to guns is.

Quote

THEY are the ones with the weapon. Why would anyone be afraid of an inanimate object? 

Fact that people are quick to call for banning of a tool rather than getting to the root cause of these issues tells me people are afraid if inanimate objects.  If you are afraid of the person, then look in to why a certain generation is doing this.  Also, look in to why it is only males committing these crimes.

[+Warwagon MVC]

52 minutes ago, wv@gt said:

 

Very powerful message here. I feel like now we are finally starting to talk about changes that need to be made. 

Does he have any other guns? what if someone watches this video and knows who he is and breaks into his house and kills him because they now know he knows longer has his AR for protection.

[Andre S. Veteran]

On 2/17/2018 at 9:13 PM, DocM said:

4: 1994-2003 there was an assault weapons ban and its effect was spotty at best. In the study An Updated Assessment of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban: Impacts on Gun Markets and Gun Violence, 1994-2003 it was found that shooters simply used larger magazines, or more of them,  in other weapons.

It's not that simple. "the number of people killed in mass shootings did go down in the years the ban was in effect (save for a surge in 1999, a year that included Columbine) (...) the number of mass shootings per year has doubled since the ban expired."

The law also banned magazines with more than 10 bullets; but since it only applied to weapons manufactured after it went into effect, millions of these weapons remained lawful, making it still relatively easy to get hold of one.

Australia imposed a much stricter ban which "was followed by more than a decade free of fatal mass shootings, and accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides."

 

Quotes from an article on that 1994-2003 law https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/12/17/everything-you-need-to-know-about-banning-assault-weapons-in-one-post/?utm_term=.4843fc8cdee9

 

Even if mass shootings represent "only" hundreds of deaths per year (compared to thousands for all firearm-related deaths), it seems like a worthy goal to reduce them...

[DocM]

17 hours ago, Luc2k said:

And the first comment is about the diversity of the drawn children..

Hopefully, there's no resident wannabe mass shooter or copycat dropping on these regular topics as you tend to offer precise advice on how one can become a more efficient shooter.

Nothing any kid with access to Google can't discover. The days of "double-secret info" died with the first internet site.

[Emn1ty]

11 minutes ago, Andre S. said:

Even if mass shootings represent "only" hundreds of deaths per year (compared to thousands for all firearm-related deaths), it seems like a worthy goal to reduce them...

No one questions the goal, but the path to get there.

[DocM]

6 minutes ago, Emn1ty said:

No one questions the goal, but the path to get there.

Correct, and the most direct path is to address those doing most of the shooting;  mentally ill males. And we should not conflate them with terrorist incidents like San Bernardino. Two different critters.

 

Focussed solutions, not scatterbrained solutions.

[shockz]

10 minutes ago, DocM said:

Correct, and the most direct path is to address those doing most of the shooting;  mentally ill males. And we should not conflate them with terrorist incidents like San Bernardino. Two different critters.

 

Focussed solutions, not scatterbrained solutions.

Ah, the constant mental health card being pulled... so what exactly would your solution be to prevent a mentally ill individual from getting a gun, or to fix that persons mental state in order to get them a gun? Seems like health in general is a concept that republicans don't like to provide public funding for.

 

Here's a good argument on why your mental health card sucks: http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2018/Senate/Maps/Feb16.html#item-2

[Rippleman]

2 hours ago, techbeck said:

If I didnt trust people for the possibility that something may happen, I should just stay inside and do not leave my house.   I could get in to a car crash today on the way home.  Or eat something, get food poisoning and keel over.  I could get in a plane and the pilot is drunk (which does happen) and the plane goes down. 

That is just about as silly argument as those who say comparing cars to guns is.

Fact that people are quick to call for banning of a tool rather than getting to the root cause of these issues tells me people are afraid if inanimate objects.  If you are afraid of the person, then look in to why a certain generation is doing this.  Also, look in to why it is only males committing these crimes.

I don't trust YOU with a killing tool, sorry, don't know you from a hole in the ground as much as not knowing the guy with the suicide vest. Both you and I don't know each other as much as don't know this guy in the story. You have a killing tool around me around me or my family I will be promptly leaving.

I don't care why people are doing this, humans are flawed and you will never find out way and you will never be able to prevent it. They only way to do it is to take away what they use. The people that are calling for an outright ban are not going to ever get their wishes, however, you will see a move from it bring a given "right" to an earned "right". Much like driving, through demonstrated ability and testing and clearance of conditions, one will be granted their right to buying/owning  a killing tool.

[shockz]

6 minutes ago, Rippleman said:

humans are flawed and you will never find out way and you will never be able to prevent it.

Seems that the US is the only ones that really haven't found out the way, unless of course you're looking at 3rd world countries. 

[techbeck]

8 minutes ago, Rippleman said:

I don't trust YOU with a killing tool, sorry, don't know you from a hole in the ground as much as not knowing the guy with the suicide vest. Both you and I don't know each other as much as don't know this guy in the story. You have a killing tool around me around me or my family I will be promptly leaving.
 

Then do not visit the US.  Can never tell who is carry a concealed weapon so you wont be able to trust anyone.  

 

Suicide vest argument is silly.