The Death of a Franchise.

[seta-san]

Luke - Ruined in Last Jedi - emo, mopey, out of character behavior and inglorious death.

Han - incoming disappointment in Solo

Leia - Ruined in Last Jedi - no one wants to see an old haggard Leia force fly through space.

Yoda - ruined in attack of the clones, breaks his epicness by getting into a pointless lightsaber fight for the fan boys when his force powers should be much more.

Lando - incoming disappointment in Solo

Darth/anakin - ruined in prequels - annoying kid then an emo - the conversation about Sand - NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

The force - ruined in phantom menace - midi chloriants

Light sabers - ruined in prequels - made boring

The Falcon - incoming disappointment In Solo

 

NOW let's play a game from redlettermedia

Describe the following characters without saying what they look like, what kind of costume they wore, or what their profession or role in the movie was. Describe this character to your friends like they've never seen Star Wars. (protip, you can't, not at least without describing the least engaging character ever.

 

Rey

Finn

Poe Dameron

General Hux

Captain Phasma

Rose Tico

Supreme Leader Snoke

Kylo Ren

Vice Admiral Holdo

 

 

Why aren't starwars toys selling? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAXcfTZ0eyk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcHBUqpxOMg

 

and now toys-r-us is bankrupt and probably announcing they are liquidating this week which will be a huge blow to merchandising above the current mess.

 

oh yeah... China hate starwars so much that they dropped the name from the upcoming Solo movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV6SeAogJ2s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VRCjU3W9AI

 

Edited March 13, 2018 by seta-san

[Nick H. Supervisor]

It's almost like the more detail that you add to the universe the more there is to pick at.

 

Personally I don't mind so much. The original trilogy will always be pure Star Wars for me, and the other films (not including Rogue One which I thought was brilliant) are fluff; I can take them or leave them. Kind of like how we could do before the prequels, when all we had for more content were books and the Expanded Universe.

[Brys]

14 minutes ago, seta-san said:

NOW let's play a game from redlettermedia

Describe the following characters without saying what they look like, what kind of costume they wore, or what their profession or role in the movie was. Describe this character to your friends like they've never seen Star Wars. (protip, you can't, not at least without describing the least engaging character ever.

 

Rey

Finn

Poe Dameron

General Hux

Captain Phasma

Rose Tico

Supreme Leader Snoke

Kylo Ren

Vice Admiral Holdo

Not that I disagree but how would you describe any character without talking about even their role in the movie or their profession. You're not letting us a lot to go on.

 

 

That said yeah I agree most of them can be reduced to "why do I even bother". You could try to identify with Luke, you could try to have some empathy for Anakin (but he's seriously annoying) but :

- Rey is just like. "Hey I suddenly exist and master the force" "Master ? Like, no training required ?" "Yeah look at me rock that lightsaber fight in the very first movie without even knowing what a lightsaber is !"...

- Finn is a stormtrooper turned good, which sounds like an interesting concept if it was ever really explored in the movies...

- Poe Dameron just... exists ?

- The next three, same thing, I'm not even certain who some of them are.

- Snoke is like, a lot of mystery and intrigue that just turns irrelevant pretty fast, it's like the movies are telling you "hey look you wanted something complex ? NOPE not today"

- Kylo Ren is a whiny rotten emo kid which looks a bit like Anakin and they're both annoying in that, but even Anakin was done better.

- Holdo is the one that hides her plan from her allies in case they may actually want to follow it, right ?

[seta-san]

1 minute ago, Nick H. said:

It's almost like the more detail that you add to the universe the more there is to pick at.

 

Personally I don't mind so much. The original trilogy will always be pure Star Wars for me, and the other films (not including Rogue One which I thought was brilliant) are fluff; I can take them or leave them. Kind of like how we could do before the prequels, when all we had for more content were books and the Expanded Universe.

the problem is not more detail. the problem is ###### characters and horrible plot holes so big you can fly a dreadnought through.

[seta-san]

1 minute ago, Brys said:

Not that I disagree but how would you describe any character without talking about even their role in the movie or their profession. You're not letting us a lot to go on.

 

 

That said yeah I agree most of them can be reduced to "why do I even bother". You could try to identify with Luke, you could try to have some empathy for Anakin (but he's seriously annoying) but :

- Rey is just like. "Hey I suddenly exist and master the force" "Master ? Like, no training required ?" "Yeah look at me rock that lightsaber fight in the very first movie without even knowing what a lightsaber is !"...

- Finn is a stormtrooper turned good, which sounds like an interesting concept if it was ever really explored in the movies...

- Poe Dameron just... exists ?

- The next three, same thing, I'm not even certain who some of them are.

- Snoke is like, a lot of mystery and intrigue that just turns irrelevant pretty fast, it's like the movies are telling you "hey look you wanted something complex ? NOPE not today"

- Kylo Ren is a whiny rotten emo kid which looks a bit like Anakin and they're both annoying in that, but even Anakin was done better.

- Holdo is the one that hides her plan from her allies in case they may actually want to follow it, right ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI

go to 6:46

 

[Brys]

2 minutes ago, seta-san said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI

go to 6:46

 

describing Han solo as a "rogue, thief with a heart of gold" and saying it's not a description of his role in the movie would be kind of like saying Qui-Gon is a "master, teacher, father figure of sorts, calm and wise" or something like that, I think both description let almost nothing slip, and both kinda give you what cliché role will be used in the movie. 

[seta-san]

2 minutes ago, Brys said:

describing Han solo as a "rogue, thief with a heart of gold" and saying it's not a description of his role in the movie would be kind of like saying Qui-Gon is a "master, teacher, father figure of sorts, calm and wise" or something like that, I think both description let almost nothing slip, and both kinda give you what cliché role will be used in the movie. 

you really should watch all of redlettermedia's starwars reviews. they are better than the movies.

[Brys]

Just now, seta-san said:

you really should watch all of redlettermedia's starwars reviews. they are better than the movies.

making a note of that somewhere.

[seta-san]

18 minutes ago, Brys said:

 

- The next three, same thing, I'm not even certain who some of them are.

 

- Kylo Ren is a whiny rotten emo kid which looks a bit like Anakin and they're both annoying in that, but even Anakin was done better.

 

General Hux - the altright posterboy

Captain Phasma - gold stormtrooper

Rose Tico - fat asian chick.

 

also Kylo looks like the love child of Anakin Skywalker and Severus Snape.

[Brys]

2 minutes ago, seta-san said:

General Hux - the altright posterboy

Captain Phasma - gold stormtrooper

Rose Tico - fat asian chick.

 

also Kylo looks like the love child of Anakin Skywalker and Severus Snape.

haha yeah he does

 

And yeah just as I thought the next 3 were uninteresting. I mean phasma's just a stormtrooper being incompetent and does nothing of note, so I don't know why you would give such a character a name.

[seta-san]

2 minutes ago, Brys said:

haha yeah he does

 

And yeah just as I thought the next 3 were uninteresting. I mean phasma's just a stormtrooper being incompetent and does nothing of note, so I don't know why you would give such a character a name.

yeah. the characters in these new movies are aweful. they don't even have character and that's nothing to say of the boring, do nothing, stories they are in.

[imachip]

Personally I don't mind either - I mean they are just movies in themselves so obviously they aren't going to have a watertight plot.  At least the new ones are better than the prequels!

 

Downers for me were:

It was a little weird to see Leila zoom across open space.

How easy it is to just 'use the force'.

Kylo Ren seems a very weak opponent.

Characters seem to be chucked in for the sake of it (e.g. Phasma)

 

Rogue One was indeed amazing though.

[seta-san]

 

Can it disappoint you if you never had high expectations to begin with. You should read the "fresh" reviews from rotton tomatos

 

These are it's POSITIVE REVIEWS

"One of the lighter of the Star Wars adventures... entertaining as hell but not particularly deep." Chicago Sun-Times

"It's tantalizing to wonder what the film that Miller and Lord would have been. Might it have offered a promising glimpse of what a less boilerplate "Star Wars" might look like? " Houston Chronical

"Things do feel shaky at first, but there's spunk to [Alden] Ehrenreich's delivery and, once he settles in, a twinkle in his eye. " NPR

"It's got a couple of gasps, a lot of action and a built-in Star Wars audience, pretty much everything a movie needs except one: a compelling reason for being." Arizona Republic

"It's checklist mythology, but thankfully served up with enough panache to make the trip engaging." Roger Ebert.com

"It's the very definition of "solid" and "competent." Nothing more, nothing less." Weekly Entertainment

[George P Global Moderator]

Overall I gave the last jedi a 6/10, it's not a bad movie but it does have issues.   All the massive hype didn't help it either.  I also wanted to see a way better version of Luke and felt let down, heck even Mark himself has issues with the movie and talks about it to this day.   Also after TFA build up Rey as being special we get TLJ and she's just, what?  A sold off kid from two parents that didn't care at all?  

 

It's like TFA had the plot going one way, and then TLJ team comes in and does a left turn half way.   Snoke was taken out like a amateur after showing off and in such a easy way, the emperor this is not.  

 

See, the issues here, between TFA and TLJ and whatever we get in the next movie, is that Disney has a different team working on each.  And while the producers/production studio is still Bad Robot, each one is it's own thing, and the plot just goes all over.  The original trilogy was all Lucas, when you have one person writing the story/plot between a trilogy of films you get something that fits better together.

[+Zagadka Subscriber²]

I liked the Rey not being special. If she was related to someone or had some weird parentage, it would have felt contrived and unsurprising. People already complain that the SW saga is all about Skywalkers. Now we get to see her come to terms with her past. That, or they change it and make Kylo have lied, which I think they still might do anyway.

 

Some people take SW way too seriously. It is almost pulp sci-fi to be entertaining and open up a full universe of imagination and creativity... that is why there are dozens of books and video games and spinoffs and fan videos and people wearing costumes. It is a universe easy to get into. Lucas never had a grand plan or message. The science doesn't even try to make sense in any way at all (and fails miserably whenever it does try). But it is easy to create characters and groups and stories in that universe because there are no walls. You can even throw the entire created universe out the window and go to the Old Republic like they did with the KotOR games. Carte blanche for cool things to happen.

[seta-san]

1 minute ago, Zagadka said:

I liked the Rey not being special. If she was related to someone or had some weird parentage, it would have felt contrived and unsurprising. People already complain that the SW saga is all about Skywalkers. Now we get to see her come to terms with her past. That, or they change it and make Kylo have lied, which I think they still might do anyway.

 

Some people take SW way too seriously. It is almost pulp sci-fi to be entertaining and open up a full universe of imagination and creativity... that is why there are dozens of books and video games and spinoffs and fan videos and people wearing costumes. It is a universe easy to get into. Lucas never had a grand plan or message. The science doesn't even try to make sense in any way at all (and fails miserably whenever it does try). But it is easy to create characters and groups and stories in that universe because there are no walls. You can even throw the entire created universe out the window and go to the Old Republic like they did with the KotOR games. Carte blanche for cool things to happen.

what they are complaining about is that TFA the built of  the mystery of who she is... and then ZERO payoff. Absolutely no explanation for how this girl with no force training resists the mind trick and beats a mostly trained sith lord in a light saber fight and then in TLJ she beats a fully trained Jedi master with again.. no training.

[+Zagadka Subscriber²]

Well, the story isn't over. The mystery can remain. It can open up the question, again, of where Force abilities come from. Who knows what her nature is? That is a bigger mystery than her parentage. One of the themes of TLJ was what it means to be a Jedi.

 

As far as that saber fight.. they make it very clear that Rey knows how to fight at least fairly well, both from her life on Jakku and, we see her training strikes on the island with Luke. Kylo never really had a saber duel. I'm sure he trained, but he is no veteran. And the final thing is that Rey is tapping the Force (without knowing it consciously), which she is apparently stronger than Kylo in. She was able to use it clearly in the Star Killer Base.  I buy that she could hold her own against Kylo.

[seta-san]

Just now, Zagadka said:

Well, the story isn't over. The mystery can remain. It can open up the question, again, of where Force abilities come from. Who knows what her nature is? That is a bigger mystery than her parentage. One of the themes of TLJ was what it means to be a Jedi. 

  

As far as that saber fight.. they make it very clear that Rey knows how to fight at least fairly well, both from her life on Jakku and, we see her training strikes on the island with Luke. Kylo never really had a saber duel. I'm sure he trained, but he is no veteran. And the final thing is that Rey is tapping the Force (without knowing it consciously), which she is apparently stronger than Kylo in. She was able to use it clearly in the Star Killer Base.  I buy that she could hold her own against Kylo. 

They wasted an entire movie. this is supposed to have a three act structure. literally nothing happened in TLJ. The rebels ran way. Ray, and the audience, learned nothing about the force. we learned nothing about the characters. We learned nothing about the bad guys. The second act is where most all the big revelations are supposed to happen. where we learn the most. We learned nothing. StarWars officially has more bad movies in it's canon than good. It's a franchise that doesn't know it's dead. It's still sputtering along on the fumes of past glory. Those fumes will run out soon.

[+Zagadka Subscriber²]

Nothing? The scene with Yoda meant something. The death of Snoke and Kylo taking command meant something. We saw Luke's struggles within himself. It had the death of the last Jedi, That may be a tad significant in what Rey grows to be, with Yoda's spiel about how superfluous the titles are. It had some cool fights and explosions. The Resistance is almost completely destroyed.

 

What do you expect from a Star Wars movie? Shakespeare? As I said, it is pulp sci-fi. Do you expect everything to follow the plot you apparently assigned it? Do you think that all movies need a three act structure? Do you not consider that this is written as a trilogy?

[seta-san]

2 minutes ago, Zagadka said:

Nothing? The scene with Yoda meant something. The death of Snoke and Kylo taking command meant something. We saw Luke's struggles within himself. It had the death of the last Jedi, That may be a tad significant in what Rey grows to be, with Yoda's spiel about how superfluous the titles are. It had some cool fights and explosions. The Resistance is almost completely destroyed.

  

What do you expect from a Star Wars movie? Shakespeare? As I said, it is pulp sci-fi. Do you expect everything to follow the plot you apparently assigned it? Do you think that all movies need a three act structure? Do you not consider that this is written as a trilogy? 

snoke might as well not been in the movie at all. he was nobody, who died for no reason. we saw jake skywalker struggle with a past that luke definitely wouldn't have had and who ultimately had a pointless, confusing death that made no sense. Ray came to Skywalker a fully realized bad ass that could singlehandedly take on the first order. She already beat Kylo... and without snoke there's nobody who can stop her. I COULD HAVE DONE A MUCH BETTER PLOT.

 

Quote

 

Luke places himself in self imposed isolation.. not because he tried to kill kylo... but his attempts at training go horribly wrong. he realized that he isn't the jedi that legend has him be. The only way he won against Vader was tapping into the dark side.. and his students aren't exactly balanced.. He gives up teaching and cuts himself off from the force because he decides it's too dangerous for anyone to know how to use the force.. Little does he know in his isolation, cut off from the force, his previous and naïve students have found a new master, Snoke. He shows them how to use the force but also gently encourages them to use their aggression pushing them to the dark side.

 

Ray comes to get Luke who is ignorant of all these things. He insists that it's best for all force users to die off. Eventually luke breaks down and reconnects to the force to realize exactly how ######ed it is. Han is dead, his sister turned into mary poppins, and his nephew is now going to alt right rallys. Ray has already gone to confront Kylo after having been force talking for a while... Kylo brings her before Snoke. Snoke dismisses kylo to take care of her friends, the resistance. Ray fights snoke but gets her ass handed to her and she barely escapes but not without injury. 

 

Meanwhile Po and Finn are getting their bromance on and definitely not going to casino planets with a fat Asian chick. they man x wings or turrets and shoot lots of tie fighters.. they save each other's necks, give each other ######(general bonding stuff). In Leia's absence they are the ones to escort their ship to safety.

 

Everything comes to on the planet's surface. they are outnumbered and out matched. Ray is injured and quite a bit behind... but luke shows up to confront Kylo. Things largely play out as they did in the movie except luke is really there. He makes a revelation about the force like maybe his affinity for the dark side(maybe his eyes turn yellow for a moment) and about how it can be used for good if extremely careful about how it's used. He dies having given ray and the resistance time to get away. 

 

the end of the move has the resistance reduced and shattered. Luke is dead having died like a hero. Leia is dead having been blasted out into space. Snoke is alive and well and insistent on finishing kylo's training. Ray is injured, beaten, barely escaped with her friends and for the first time truly uncertain if she would ever be able to make a difference and in absolute need of a teacher. Oh yeah, Ray isn't anyone.... except that she was an experiment by the old empire to create soldiers who were extremely adept at using the force and she was abandoned on Jaku by someone ordered to kill her but couldn't bring themselves to do the deed.

 

here you go. call rian Johnson. I've got a real ######## movie outline here. I wrote it in an hour.

[seta-san]

Quote

Luke places himself in self imposed isolation.. not because he tried to kill Kylo... but his attempts at training go horribly wrong. He was a barley trained jedi and he’s never been trained to teach. He realized that he isn't the Jedi that legend has him be. The only way he won against Vader was tapping into the dark side.. and his students aren't exactly balanced but he’s barely taught them much anyway.. He gives up teaching and cuts himself off from the force because he decides it's too dangerous for anyone to know how to use the force.. Little does he know in his isolation, cut off from the force, his previous and naïve students have found a new master; Snoke. He shows them how to use the force but also gently encourages them to use their aggression pushing them to the dark side.

 

The movie’s opening sequence is pretty much the same. After everything Leia chastises Poe but doesn’t do it in an emasculating way. Leia remains in charge and discloses the plan to escape to everyone until she’s blasted out into space and dies. Fin and Poe take charge.

 

Ray comes to get Luke who is ignorant of all these things. He insists that it's best for all force users to die off. Eventually Luke breaks down and reconnects to the force after R2D2 guilts him only to realize exactly how ######ed everything is; Han is dead, his sister is dead, and his nephew is now going to alt right rallies, and the dark side shrouds more than it ever did… but still somehow Luke still can see clearly. Ray leaves to confront Kylo after having been force talking for a while... Kylo brings her before Snoke. Snoke dismisses Kylo to take care of her friends, the resistance. Ray fights Snoke but gets her ass handed to her and she barely escapes but not without injury. 

 

Meanwhile Po and Finn are getting their bromance on and definitely not going to casino planets with a fat Asian chick. They man X-Wings or turrets and shoot lots of Tie Fighters.. They save each other's necks, give each other ###### (general bonding stuff). In Leia's absence they are the ones to escort their ship to safety. At some point Po is given the opportunity to do something risky to hit the enemy but takes Leia’s advice from earlier bringing that plot point full circle.

 

Everything comes together on the planet's surface. The resistance is outnumbered and out matched. Ray is injured and quite a bit behind... but Luke shows up to confront Kylo. Things largely play out as they did in the movie except Luke is really there. He makes a revelation about the force like maybe his affinity for the dark side(maybe his eyes turn yellow for a moment) and about how it can be used for good if extremely careful about how it's used. He fights Kylo and he dies having given Ray and the resistance time to get away. 

 

The end of the move has the resistance reduced and shattered. Luke is dead having died like a hero. Leia is dead having been blasted out into space. Snoke is alive and well and insistent on finishing Kylo's training. Ray is injured, beaten, barely escaped with her friends and for the first time truly uncertain if she would ever be able to make a difference and in absolute need of a teacher. Oh yeah, Ray isn't anyone.... except that she was an experiment by the old empire to create soldiers who were extremely adept at using the force and she was abandoned on Jaku by someone ordered to kill her but couldn't bring themselves to do the deed.

slightly edited.