SpaceX Super Heavy and Starship updates

[DocM]

On 13/08/2021 at 03:51, Skiver said:

That's actually a really good point I'd not considered. Lets pretend BO had their ###### together and had their proposed lander ready etc. How many launches is it going to take for them to get the same amount of equipment to the moon that a single HLS is capable of? I would assume similar to Starship the lander has no plans to ever return back to earth so it's not even launchers, it's also how many landers would it take? 

2nd pass,

 

10-20 LANDERS, each requiring 3-4 launches to get them through trans-lunar insertion, and non of them will carry items the size of a Starship cargo deck (or decks for the Cargo version). 

 

Also consider Starship HLS will also have a medical facility, 2 airlocks, and a sizeable radiation shelter. The benefits of being a SHIP vs a Conestoga wagon.

[DocM]

Oh, boy...

 

 

 

 

 

[SALSN]

Does anyone know how the fueling process in space is going to go?

It sounds like a lot of people expect that the starship will go up first, and then get fueled by the same tanker x amounts of times.

 

But I was thinking it would be better to send up x amount of tankers hanging out fairly close, and then go tanking from one to the next.

 

Perhaps at first only use one tanker, until more are build, but at least sent up the first load before the starship, to save on the wait time in orbit and also have one load of fuel that you know will not fail on launch since the launch already happened.

 

Thoughts?

Edited August 15, 2021 by SALSN

[IsItPluggedIn]

On 16/08/2021 at 00:45, SALSN said:

Does anyone know how the fueling process in space is going to go?

It sounds like a lot of people expect that the starship will go up first, and then get fueled by the same tanker x amounts of times.

 

But I was thinking it would be better to send up x amount of tankers hanging out fairly close, and then go tanking from one to the next.

 

Perhaps at first only use one tanker, until more are build, but at least sent up the first load before the starship, to save on the wait time in orbit and also have one load of fuel that you know will not fail on launch since the launch already happened.

 

Thoughts?

For HLS or Mars missions, I would suggest that they send up a "Tanker" then refuel it till its full.

 

Once the tanker is full, send up the HLS or Mars Vehicle, fill up once from the tanker and then head off to the destination.

 

This way the tanker can be full, loitering in LEO until the transit vehicle is ready to launch, and there is only 1 refuel of the transit vehicle.

[DocM]

On 15/08/2021 at 10:45, SALSN said:

Does anyone know how the fueling process in space is going to go?

It sounds like a lot of people expect that the starship will go up first, and then get fueled by the same tanker x amounts of times.

 

But I was thinking it would be better to send up x amount of tankers hanging out fairly close, and then go tanking from one to the next.

 

Perhaps at first only use one tanker, until more are build, but at least sent up the first load before the starship, to save on the wait time in orbit and also have one load of fuel that you know will not fail on launch since the launch already happened.

 

Thoughs?

 

First they launch a Starship Storage (depot) ship into low Earth orbit, a variant built to minimize propellant loss due to evaporation.

 

Next comes a series of Starship Tankers, each capable of carrying up to 150 tonnes of propellant. How many depends on the mission, with Musk saying 4 should do it for a lunar mission. This would be ~600 tonnes, about 1/2 a Starship tank (1200 tonnes). A full tank would take it to Mars.

 

After Starship Storage has enough propellant stored, a mission Starship launches, docks, refuels and is on its way to wherever.

 

It's sounding like Starship Storage vehicles could be placed at arbitrary locations to support missions further out. Lunar or Mars orbit, Lagrange points, whatever. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by DocM

[anthdci]

On 16/08/2021 at 22:26, DocM said:

 

First they launch a Starship Storage (depot) ship into low Earth orbit, a variant built to minimize propellant loss due to evaporation.

 

Next comes a series of Starship Tankers, each capable of carrying up to 150 tonnes of propellant. How many depends on the mission, with Musk saying 4 should do it for a lunar mission. This would be ~600 tonnes, about 1/2 a Starship tank (1200 tonnes). A full tank would take it to Mars.

 

After Starship Storage has enough propellant stored, a mission Starship launches, docks, refuels and is on its way to wherever.

 

It's sounding like Starship Storage vehicles could be placed at arbitrary locations to support missions further out. Lunar or Mars orbit, Lagrange points, whatever. 

Am I missing something. Why would starship be completely empty when it gets to orbit? Should superheavy not be made a bit bigger to reduce the amount of fuel starship needs to burn to get into orbit? 
 

Is it something along the lines of starships tanks are emptied to get to orbit. As are the tankers tanks, but the tankers payload is more fuel tanks and that’s what’s transferred, at 150t at a time?

[Emn1ty]

On 16/08/2021 at 23:52, anthdci said:

 Should superheavy not be made a bit bigger to reduce the amount of fuel starship needs to burn to get into orbit?

Physics makes that hard. The more fuel you take up with you at one time, the heavier they rocket and the more thrust you need to get into orbit. The more thrust, the faster you burn the fuel.

[DocM]

On 17/08/2021 at 02:52, anthdci said:

Am I missing something. Why would starship be completely empty when it gets to orbit? Should superheavy not be made a bit bigger to reduce the amount of fuel starship needs to burn to get into orbit? 
 

Is it something along the lines of starships tanks are emptied to get to orbit. As are the tankers tanks, but the tankers payload is more fuel tanks and that’s what’s transferred, at 150t at a time?

The rocket equation is merciless and propellant mass vs vehicle mass is directly tied to how much payload mass you're putting into orbit, the altitude, inclination relative to the equator, and the latitude of the launch site.  A big feedback loop.

 

They've sized the tanks to have enough residuals for basic orbital ops to lighten the ship as much as possible at launch. Larger tanks to have more residuals in orbit starts the mass vs launch propellant feedback loop again. 

 

Result: Starship Tanker and a propellant Starship Storage (depot.)  Basically, a gas station. How much propellant is transferred from the depot depends on where you're going; geostationary orbit takes less than the Moon, Mars etc.

 

down the road they may preposition  depots at waypoints and destinations, likely using plasma thrusters (which SpaceX already makes), or leverage the nuclear engine DoD & NASA are designing. 

 

Edited August 17, 2021 by DocM

[DocM]

Starship S20 fanart with naming livery

 

Rocinante

 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2021 by DocM

[DocM]

Erc X has Musk's input on many of his renders, and now Musk is talking about the front fins being 120° apart and more leeward - rather inverted Orca-like in Etc X's render.  Also an updated booster catch simulation.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2021 by DocM

[DocM]

QD = quick disconnect = hard umbilical; one for SH on the launch mount, one for Starship on a swing arm which also supports the stack before liftoff. 

 

The launch mount QD has been installed.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by DocM

[DocM]

Testing Sept. 1 at Starbase

 

 

[Skiver Veteran]

On 31/08/2021 at 03:04, DocM said:

Testing Sept. 1 at Starbase

 

 

Moving equipment or maybe a Cryo test?

[DocM]

On 31/08/2021 at 05:16, Skiver said:

Moving equipment or maybe a Cryo test?

Moved some new GSE tanks.

[DocM]

Looks like Liebherr has built SpaceX a custom LR 11000 crane...

 

 

 

[DocM]

Boca Chica TFR (temporary flight restriction), test could occur any time in September.

 

Perhaps a Super Heavy test

 

https://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_1_9481.html

 

Surface to 10,000 feet

From: August 31, 2021 2001 Eastern

To: September 30, 2021 1959 Eastern

 

 

 

[DocM]

 

Guess they'll be starting the second Starbase pad & tower soon...

[DocM]

Once the bottom aero covers are on Super Heavy will be one purdy rocket...

 

 

 

[DocM]

Booster 4 w/29 engines back on the Orbital pad...(time cued)

 

 

 

 

 

[DocM]

The FAA Boca Chica Starship Draft ENvironmental Assessment is out for comments.

 

https://www.faa.gov/space/stakeholder_engagement/spacex_starship/media/Draft_PEA_for_SpaceX_Starship_Super_Heavy_at_Boca_Chica.pdf

 

https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-invites-public-comment-draft-environmental-review-spacex-starshipsuper-heavy-program

 

 

 

 

 

 

[IsItPluggedIn]

That comment section is going to be a mess, with the supports vs subtractors of SpaceX fighting. I would hate to be the person who has to deal with that.

 

This may end up with some changes about public comment, which may be Elon's reason for tweeting that out.

[DocM]

There will soon be static fires of both Starship and the Super Heavy booster. Those should give a better indication of the acoustics than the computer models.  

[DocM]

Quick Disconnect arm, which also houses the umbilicals connector plate.

 

They'll likely move Booster 4 off the launch mount to install the catcher arms (aka: "chopsticks").

 

 

 

[DocM]

Ship 20 cryotest good.

 

 

 

[DocM]

NASA Langley is looking at a March, 2022 Starship launch for their re-entry imaging contract.