Recommended Posts

I'm hoping some server experts can give me some advice on this server that I configured and a Dell rep tweaked for me. We have a small 5 workstation domain right now. We run a large Filemaker Database, an SQL database, and host files on it. I just want some feedback before I spend $7,200. I configured the hard drives as RAID 10.

 

PowerEdge T640 Tower Server

Date & Time: June 07, 2019 6:37 AM CST

 

  SYSTEM COMPONENTS

 

PowerEdge T640 Tower ServerQty  1

PowerEdge T640Unit Price$7,104.22

Estimated Delivery:1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM-6/21/2019 5:00:00 AM

Catalog Number: 4 PE_T640_12442C

 Module DescriptionShow Details

Trusted Platform ModuleNo Trusted Platform Module

Chassis ConfigurationChassis with up to 8" x 3.5 SAS/SATA Hard Drives, Tower Configuration

ProcessorIntel® Xeon® Gold 5118 2.3G, 12C/24T, 10.4GT/s, 16.5M Cache, Turbo, HT (105W) DDR4-2400

Additional ProcessorNo Additional Processor

Processor Thermal ConfigurationStandard HS for Less = 150W

Memory DIMM Type and Speed2666MT/s RDIMMs

Memory Configuration TypePerformance Optimized

Memory Capacity32GB RDIMM, 2666MT/s, Dual Rank

RAID ConfigurationC5, RAID 10 for HDDs or SSDs in pairs (Matching Type/Speed/Capacity)

RAID/Internal Storage ControllersPERC H330 RAID Controller

Hard Drives(4) 1.2TB 10K RPM SAS 12Gbps 512n 2.5in Hot-plug Hard Drive, 3.5in HYB CARR

Hard Drives(4) 1.2TB 10K RPM SAS 12Gbps 512n 2.5in Hot-plug Hard Drive, 3.5in HYB CARR

Hard Drives(4) 1.2TB 10K RPM SAS 12Gbps 512n 2.5in Hot-plug Hard Drive, 3.5in HYB CARR

Hard Drives(4) 1.2TB 10K RPM SAS 12Gbps 512n 2.5in Hot-plug Hard Drive, 3.5in HYB CARR

Boot Optimized Storage CardsBOSS controller card + with 2 M.2 Sticks 240G (RAID 1),FH

Operating SystemWindows Server® 2019 Standard,16CORE,FI,No Med,No CAL, Multi Language

OS Media KitsWindows Server® 2019 Standard,16CORE,Media Kit, Multi Language

Client Access Licenses10-pack of Windows Server 2019/2016 User CALs (Standard or Datacenter)

Client Access Licenses5-pack of Windows Server 2019 Remote Desktop Services, User

Embedded Systems ManagementiDRAC9, Express

Group ManageriDRAC Group Manager, Disabled

PasswordiDRAC,Factory Generated Password

Additional Network CardsOn-Board Dual-Port 10GbE LOM

Internal Optical DriveNo Internal Optical Drive for x8/x18/x16 chassis

FansNo Additional Mid Fan for T640

Power SupplyDual, Hot-plug, Redundant Power Supply (1+1), 495W

Power Cords(2) NEMA 5-15P to C13 Wall Plug, 125 Volt, 15 AMP, 10 Feet (3m), Power Cord, North America

Power Cords(2) NEMA 5-15P to C13 Wall Plug, 125 Volt, 15 AMP, 10 Feet (3m), Power Cord, North America

BezelNo Bezel

Quick Sync 2 (Wireless At-the-box mgmt)No Quick Sync for Tower

BIOS and Advanced System Configuration SettingsPower Saving Dell Active Power Controller

Advanced System ConfigurationsUEFI BIOS Boot Mode with GPT Partition

Rack RailsNo Rack Rails, No Cable Management Arm, No Casters

System DocumentationNo Systems Documentation, No OpenManage DVD Kit

iDRAC Service ModuleiDRAC Server Manager Enabled

Dell Services: Hardware Support3 Years ProSupport with Next Business Day Onsite Service

Deployment ServicesNo Installation

Remote Consulting ServicesDeclined Remote Consulting Service

TOTAL:   $7,104.22

 

Total Price

Sub-total$7,104.22

Shipping & Handling$0.00

Tax *$621.61

Total Price1$7,725.83

Link to comment
https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1383559-server-advice/
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, xendrome said:

Looks fine, but does it have iDrac Enterprise which gives you a ton of bare-metal features including VNC to the console outside the OS? See if you can get them to throw that in while retaining the same price.

I don't even know what that is. I've been building my own PC's for like 25 years, but my knowledge of servers is VERY basic.

 

EDIT: 

I just looked and it says iDRAC Service ModuleiDRAC Server Manager Enabled

 

Is that what you meant?

Edited by patseguin
Link to comment
https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1383559-server-advice/#findComment-598452932
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, patseguin said:

I just looked and it says iDRAC Service ModuleiDRAC Server Manager Enabled

 

Is that what you meant?

He's referring to this:

Embedded Systems ManagementiDRAC9, Express

 

It's definitely worth upgrading that to iDRAC Enterprise. The enterprise license adds a number of features - most usefully the ability to use Remote Console, which allows you to access the server remotely via your web browser, saving you having to go on-site, into the server room, and plug in a screen and keyboard. If the server has an issue during boot up, so normal remote desktop is unavailable, you can use the remote console via iDRAC to access the machine as if you were sat in front of it with a monitor and keyboard - very handy for troubleshooting remotely.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1383559-server-advice/#findComment-598452948
Share on other sites

These would be considered production applications. Are you going to get more than one server? I would suggest getting three, running a hypervisor and doing a sql cluster for sure. Filemaker can be run in a cluster as well. Don't want downtime when you need to do updates/have issues. 

Link to comment
https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1383559-server-advice/#findComment-598452955
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Riva said:

Are you virtualising on the server?

I feel this config is an overkill for 5 workstatiosn/users unless the business is going to scale up greatly in the next 2-3 years

It would be best to come off the specs and get 2-3 servers and run hyper-v or they have the money, VMware. A single server, even running as a hyper visor is asking for trouble, especially hosting files on it. This needs to be architected completely different. 

Link to comment
https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1383559-server-advice/#findComment-598452959
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, fusi0n said:

These would be considered production applications. Are you going to get more than one server? I would suggest getting three, running a hypervisor and doing a sql cluster for sure. Filemaker can be run in a cluster as well. Don't want downtime when you need to do updates/have issues. 

Actually, the modern way is to configure a Kubernetes Cluster.

 

That gives you modern "Cloud Native" architecture (which does NOT need a cloud, just the new server side standard for EVERYTHING) which gives built  in auto healing.

1 hour ago, patseguin said:

Hard Drives(4) 1.2TB 10K RPM SAS 12Gbps 512n 2.5in Hot-plug Hard Drive, 3.5in HYB CARR

Boot Optimized Storage CardsBOSS controller card + with 2 M.2 Sticks 240G (RAID 1),FH

 

The Database should be on a SSD ARRAY

 

The large drives should go into a backup cluster/container

 

1 hour ago, patseguin said:

ProcessorIntel® Xeon® Gold 5118 2.3G, 12C/24T, 10.4GT/s, 16.5M Cache, Turbo, HT (105W) DDR4-2400

 

Memory Capacity32GB RDIMM, 2666MT/s, Dual Rank

Some odd there

 

The LGA3647 mobo should have 6-way RAM

Link to comment
https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1383559-server-advice/#findComment-598452960
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, DevTech said:

Actually, the modern way is to configure a Kubernetes Cluster.

 

That gives you modern "Cloud Native" architecture (which does NOT need a cloud, just the new server side standard for EVERYTHING) which gives built  in auto healing.

 

The Database should be on a SSD ARRAY

 

The large drives should go into a backup cluster/container

 

Some odd there

 

The LGA3647 mobo should have 6-way RAM

Yes, running on K8s would be best. 

Link to comment
https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1383559-server-advice/#findComment-598452962
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Riva said:

Are you virtualising on the server?

I feel this config is an overkill for 5 workstatiosn/users unless the business is going to scale up greatly in the next 2-3 years

That was my main concern. We are just a small business with 5 workstations. We may add a couple here and there if we hire additional employees but that's probably it.

 

It's going to run an SQL Express based database which hosts embroidery design files, a Filemaker Server database which runs Shopworks Onsite (our industry's order management software), and a simple embroidery machine networking application.

 

That's about all that our server does. We have a "shared company files" folder where I copy files that I want to keep and I also save AI artwork to a folder on it.

 

I don't think we remotely have a big operation to consider a cluster of servers or anything like that. Just a basic enough server to handle what our business needs.

 

Maybe I should start over with a more basic configuration?

 

 

Link to comment
https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1383559-server-advice/#findComment-598452963
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Riva said:

My take is:

2x hyper-v servers active/passive. Raid 10 100-200GB disks

NAS storage - as needed

 

In regards to capacity planning:

-Domain Controller: 2 cores, 4GB RAM, 60GB storage, 12GB swap file partition (if its just AD,DNS,DHCP)

-SQL: 4 cores, 8GB RAM, 80GB system, 26GB swap partition, x storage based on storage requirements + 2 years data growth

-File Server: 4 cores, 16GB RAM,  32GB swap partition, storage partition as needed

-Filemaker- i have no clue about requirements

 

 

 

Yes. that sounds good. Make sure you are running two AD servers though ;) Also, wouldn't hurt to leverage AzureAD. 

Link to comment
https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1383559-server-advice/#findComment-598452969
Share on other sites

i really think you guys are over compensating here. While it's not the optimal setup, the company surely doesnt have the funds to set up an entire domain and various extra servers. I feel his single server build is just fine for a whopping 5 employees.

Link to comment
https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1383559-server-advice/#findComment-598452971
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Jason S. said:

i really think you guys are over compensating here. While it's not the optimal setup, the company surely doesnt have the funds to set up an entire domain and various extra servers. I feel his single server build is just fine for a whopping 5 employees.

Not at all. You always need Business Continuity. While it is a small business, you should keep in mind the best needs for the business. Having a single point of failure is horrible. Just because it's small, doesn't mean to set it up incorrectly. I can build an entire environment with HA for under $7K. 

 

Grab 2-3 Used R710s 12 Core 64GB Ram for $250, Grab two QNAPs $500 ea, SSDs for the VMs and spin disk for files, and you're under $4K and it's a much better setup. 

Link to comment
https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1383559-server-advice/#findComment-598452977
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, patseguin said:

I don't think we remotely have a big operation to consider a cluster of servers or anything like that. Just a basic enough server to handle what our business needs.

 

Maybe I should start over with a more basic configuration?

 

8 hours ago, Jason S. said:

i really think you guys are over compensating here. While it's not the optimal setup, the company surely doesnt have the funds to set up an entire domain and various extra servers. I feel his single server build is just fine for a whopping 5 employees.

 

8 hours ago, Riva said:

I agree, I would actually suggest not running any infrastructure at all and getting Office 365 E3 instead. Obviously Filemaker will have to go but you have SharePoint for way better document storage, project management features, PowerApps for building apps, Flow for workflow, Exchange and Office clients included. Azure AD also included.

so assuming you have 5 users, $20x5 a month is peanuts. Just connect the 5 workstations to Azure AD and voila.

 

There is a difference between a large number of physical servers and a single machine with decent RAM to run a few VMs.

 

The main thing to consider is that the physical equipment selection is a provisioning thing and the purpose of each server either physical or a VM image is an ARCHITECTURE thing.

 

If you plan to grow/expand in the future then staring out with the right architecture means you just add stuff later instead of re-design stuff later. For better or for worse, HUMANITY has come together like some butterfly effect thing to land solidly on Kubernetes for server side ANYTHING. Anybody who is anybody in the computing industry is now a member of the Cloud Native Computing Foundation (Oracle was the last major player holdout) which specifies sometimes in a very specific way, more often in a general way the right way to do anything with servers and clouds:

 

 

EVERYTHING LIVES IN A CONTAINER. Containers are immutable so they can be constructed, torn down, restarted, moved anywhere in the physical clusters there is available RAM and CPU and all of the complex stuff is managed by Kubernetes.

 

So, you no longer think of servers and which server is doing what. It takes a bit to set it up right but then MAGIC HAPPENS. If you adapt to Kubernetes then you just add servers down the road and it handles what goes where, if you add cloud Kubernete servers, it adds them in. If you get an order for a million embroideries, Kubernetes fires up a million containers if you need it. Google is deploying billions of things on containers every day.

 

Back to earth, the minimum Kubernetes config is 3 servers. But you can go super-starter and run those 3 servers as VMs on a single server. (You can also replace those 3 server VMs with MINIKUBE, but I don't suggest that for any production usage) Again, the allocation unit is a Container, not a server. So adding servers just becomes a demand-load kind of thing. If you get a cloud contract, you can literally run embroidery on a million containers within minutes...

 

So that is just a rough sketch of server architecture. Your down to earth requirements don't need the equipment you selected and would actually make expanding harder in the future since you need more servers eventually so 3 cheap ones gets your Kubernetes minimum 3 server config  onto real hardware as a starting point a bit faster than a huge monlythic one right now.

 

You could dust off some old PCs that are new enough to run a Hypervisor (any old PC first gen i-Series or later) and then just boot to Kubernetes on Bare Metal.

 

You also just set up that minimum config in the Cloud, but even that's too much work because Cloud now offers directly hosted Kubernetes.

 

Azure Kubernetes Service (AKS)

https://azure.microsoft.com/en-ca/services/kubernetes-service/

 

Azure Kubernetes Service (AKS)

https://kubernetes.io/docs/setup/turnkey/azure/

 

Kubernetes on AWS

https://aws.amazon.com/kubernetes/

https://aws.amazon.com/eks/

 

Running Kubernetes on AWS EC2

https://kubernetes.io/docs/setup/turnkey/aws/

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1383559-server-advice/#findComment-598453141
Share on other sites

Wow, am I ever getting lost. Can't I just buy a simple server with Windows Server 2019 on it and install everything I need to run on it? Our business runs on Shopworks Onsite which is a Windows based Filemaker database. I install FIlemaker Server on the server and then my 5 workstations connect to that. It also runs WIlcom Design Workflow which is an SQL Express based embroidery design database. Other than that, we just store files on it like AI files for artwork and backups of installers, etc. I don't think I need VM's, clusters, all that other stuff do I? I'm not even sure why VM's are even being mentioned. Don't you run a VM if you need to run another OS like Linux?

 

@DevTechwhat kind of scenario would I want to run VM's? I only have those couple of apps that need to run on the server and besides that, it just needs to store files. Are you saying that I would run a VM for each task that I need like a VM for a machine to run the FIlemaker Server app and database, a VM for the embroidery database, etc.? I'm not sure what the benefit to doing that is. PLus, wouldn't i need a license for each instance of WIndows Server 2019 I'm running? Right now I have an 11 year old (at least) Dell server with WIndows Server 2008, 4GB RAM, and 540GB of storage in RAID 5. After all this time it's only about 50% full and those low spec run my business. I wouldn't even be thinking about upgrading except I need to in order to run the new version of Filemaker for Shopworks.

Link to comment
https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1383559-server-advice/#findComment-598453998
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, patseguin said:

Wow, am I ever getting lost. Can't I just buy a simple server with Windows Server 2019 on it and install everything I need to run on it? Our business runs on Shopworks Onsite which is a Windows based Filemaker database. I install FIlemaker Server on the server and then my 5 workstations connect to that. It also runs WIlcom Design Workflow which is an SQL Express based embroidery design database. Other than that, we just store files on it like AI files for artwork and backups of installers, etc. I don't think I need VM's, clusters, all that other stuff do I? I'm not even sure why VM's are even being mentioned. Don't you run a VM if you need to run another OS like Linux?

 

@DevTechwhat kind of scenario would I want to run VM's? I only have those couple of apps that need to run on the server and besides that, it just needs to store files. Are you saying that I would run a VM for each task that I need like a VM for a machine to run the FIlemaker Server app and database, a VM for the embroidery database, etc.? I'm not sure what the benefit to doing that is. PLus, wouldn't i need a license for each instance of WIndows Server 2019 I'm running? Right now I have an 11 year old (at least) Dell server with WIndows Server 2008, 4GB RAM, and 540GB of storage in RAID 5. After all this time it's only about 50% full and those low spec run my business. I wouldn't even be thinking about upgrading except I need to in order to run the new version of Filemaker for Shopworks.

If you ask a question here, please take comfort that most times you will get professional answers with a decent amount of due diligence which actually continues to amaze me every so often when I step back for the "big picture"

 

In 2019, when you say the word "server" the Cloud Native Computing Foundation is the authentic prescriptive architecture for EVERYTHING.

 

A minimum config for a modern setup is 3 servers, probably one or two more when you take data persistence and backup into account.

 

The cheapest way to to make a "newbie starter" version of the correct architecture is to use VMs to emulate the physical servers you would buy if you could. It is a workable approach.

 

Also, the world has moved past VM's in the manner that you are thinking about them. They are just a holding pattern for Docker Containers. And yes a "proper" architecture has everything isolated into it's own container. You don't start an application, you start one or more containers as a "Pod" that can be replicated and multiplied as needed ad infinitum with the insanely complex management of the life cycle of these entities being managed by Kubernetes.

 

All of this information has been provided so that you can digest it, if you choose, and incorporate current server architecture standards into your planning.

 

Of course you don't have to do that and can focus on a "retro" type setup which as you point out will meet your needs as a small shop. To that extent I have already pointed out the anomalies that I noticed in your server configuration and I think I was complete in that review but just in case I missed anything, I'll look at your config again...

Link to comment
https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1383559-server-advice/#findComment-598454043
Share on other sites

On 6/7/2019 at 7:40 AM, patseguin said:

  SYSTEM COMPONENTS

 

PowerEdge T640 Tower ServerQty  1

PowerEdge T640Unit Price$7,104.22

Estimated Delivery:1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM-6/21/2019 5:00:00 AM

Catalog Number: 4 PE_T640_12442C

 Module DescriptionShow Details

Trusted Platform ModuleNo Trusted Platform Module

Chassis ConfigurationChassis with up to 8" x 3.5 SAS/SATA Hard Drives, Tower Configuration

ProcessorIntel® Xeon® Gold 5118 2.3G, 12C/24T, 10.4GT/s, 16.5M Cache, Turbo, HT (105W) DDR4-2400

Additional ProcessorNo Additional Processor

Processor Thermal ConfigurationStandard HS for Less = 150W

Memory DIMM Type and Speed2666MT/s RDIMMs

Memory Configuration TypePerformance Optimized

Memory Capacity32GB RDIMM, 2666MT/s, Dual Rank

RAID ConfigurationC5, RAID 10 for HDDs or SSDs in pairs (Matching Type/Speed/Capacity)

RAID/Internal Storage ControllersPERC H330 RAID Controller

Hard Drives(4) 1.2TB 10K RPM SAS 12Gbps 512n 2.5in Hot-plug Hard Drive, 3.5in HYB CARR

Hard Drives(4) 1.2TB 10K RPM SAS 12Gbps 512n 2.5in Hot-plug Hard Drive, 3.5in HYB CARR

Hard Drives(4) 1.2TB 10K RPM SAS 12Gbps 512n 2.5in Hot-plug Hard Drive, 3.5in HYB CARR

Hard Drives(4) 1.2TB 10K RPM SAS 12Gbps 512n 2.5in Hot-plug Hard Drive, 3.5in HYB CARR

Boot Optimized Storage CardsBOSS controller card + with 2 M.2 Sticks 240G (RAID 1),FH

Operating SystemWindows Server® 2019 Standard,16CORE,FI,No Med,No CAL, Multi Language

OS Media KitsWindows Server® 2019 Standard,16CORE,Media Kit, Multi Language

Client Access Licenses10-pack of Windows Server 2019/2016 User CALs (Standard or Datacenter)

Client Access Licenses5-pack of Windows Server 2019 Remote Desktop Services, User

Embedded Systems ManagementiDRAC9, Express

Group ManageriDRAC Group Manager, Disabled

PasswordiDRAC,Factory Generated Password

Additional Network CardsOn-Board Dual-Port 10GbE LOM

Internal Optical DriveNo Internal Optical Drive for x8/x18/x16 chassis

FansNo Additional Mid Fan for T640

Power SupplyDual, Hot-plug, Redundant Power Supply (1+1), 495W

Power Cords(2) NEMA 5-15P to C13 Wall Plug, 125 Volt, 15 AMP, 10 Feet (3m), Power Cord, North America

Power Cords(2) NEMA 5-15P to C13 Wall Plug, 125 Volt, 15 AMP, 10 Feet (3m), Power Cord, North America

BezelNo Bezel

Quick Sync 2 (Wireless At-the-box mgmt)No Quick Sync for Tower

BIOS and Advanced System Configuration SettingsPower Saving Dell Active Power Controller

Advanced System ConfigurationsUEFI BIOS Boot Mode with GPT Partition

Rack RailsNo Rack Rails, No Cable Management Arm, No Casters

System DocumentationNo Systems Documentation, No OpenManage DVD Kit

iDRAC Service ModuleiDRAC Server Manager Enabled

Dell Services: Hardware Support3 Years ProSupport with Next Business Day Onsite Service

Deployment ServicesNo Installation

Remote Consulting ServicesDeclined Remote Consulting Service

TOTAL:   $7,104.22

 

Total Price

Sub-total$7,104.22

Shipping & Handling$0.00

Tax *$621.61

Total Price1$7,725.83

 

On 6/7/2019 at 9:26 AM, DevTech said:
On 6/7/2019 at 7:40 AM, patseguin said:

Hard Drives(4) 1.2TB 10K RPM SAS 12Gbps 512n 2.5in Hot-plug Hard Drive, 3.5in HYB CARR

Boot Optimized Storage CardsBOSS controller card + with 2 M.2 Sticks 240G (RAID 1),FH

 

The Database should be on a SSD ARRAY

 

The large drives should go into a backup cluster/container

 

On 6/7/2019 at 7:40 AM, patseguin said:

ProcessorIntel® Xeon® Gold 5118 2.3G, 12C/24T, 10.4GT/s, 16.5M Cache, Turbo, HT (105W) DDR4-2400

 

Memory Capacity32GB RDIMM, 2666MT/s, Dual Rank

Some odd there

 

The LGA3647 mobo should have 6-way RAM

 

2 hours ago, patseguin said:

Our business runs on Shopworks Onsite which is a Windows based Filemaker database. I install FIlemaker Server on the server and then my 5 workstations connect to that. It also runs WIlcom Design Workflow which is an SQL Express based embroidery design database. Other than that, we just store files on it like AI files for artwork and backups of installers, etc

 

2 hours ago, patseguin said:

Right now I have an 11 year old (at least) Dell server with WIndows Server 2008, 4GB RAM, and 540GB of storage in RAID 5. After all this time it's only about 50% full and those low spec run my business. I wouldn't even be thinking about upgrading except I need to in order to run the new version of Filemaker for Shopworks.

==========================================

 

I've pasted in the "bare facts". My apologies for also not taking the time to paste in the other suggestions, but I'm tight for time today.

 

==========================================

 

#1 - you can run the whole show on a modern laptop and comfortably exceed your original server. By using a laptop, you can easily move shop to an island with palm trees anytime you feel like it. I think I'm joking here, but hmmm....

 

#2 - #1 is saying anything modern will do the job so anything over and above that is just Optimizing to Get The Best Value

 

#3 - A Xeon CPU really just has a nicer "server bulged out fat cache" to achieve good throughput performance in FULL LOAD conditions which you are far from having so an i7 or i9 CPU if cheaper will do just as good.

 

#4 - If you go with a modern LGA 3647 socket based Xeon then why not specify a mobo with a spare CPU socket, but above all the MAIN FEATURE of the new platform which is 6 WAY RAM

 

#5 - the hard drive config is just a bit too "old school" - the M.2 NVMe (if it is NVMe) is WASTED on booting for server which never needs to boot... 

 

#5 A) use a RAID-1 SATA array with SSD 2 TB for boot and misc installs (Samsung 860 Pro or enterprise equivalent at least as good which is hard to find)

 

#5 B) use 2 M.2 NVMe slots for 4 TB Samsung 970 Pro (or better if you can find that) in RAID-1 for most everything and perfect for DB - A RAID-1 Samsung 970 is going to BLOW AWAY the performance of those old school spinning stupidities...

 

#5 C) use a RAID-1 modern spinning drive for general storage and backup using just the new 12 TB and 14 TB drives like WD Gold for which you just ignore whether you need the size or not and focus in a new reliability level being achieved in those state-of-the-art platters.

 

#5 D) I don't have time to check right now, but an enterprise mobo with enough PCIe lanes to support 8 or more M.2 NVMe sockets would make so much more sense these days...

 

EDIT: I was sort of following the posted config a bit but for your needs the ONLY HD you need in the box is that RAID-1 4 TB Samsung 970 Pro, since that drive is so blazingly fast it won't conflict at all to multi-purpose it a bit :)

 

EDIT: for spinning platter backup you could also consider replacing internal drives with 2 USB 3.0 2.5 inch portable externals one of which you can move back and forth off site. Double-Backup will ALWAYS beat out RAID-1 for reliability

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1383559-server-advice/#findComment-598454063
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, DevTech said:

I've pasted in the "bare facts". My apologies for also not taking the time to paste in the other suggestions, but I'm tight for time today.

You're tight on time but you wrote THAT? That's kinda hard to do. :laugh:

  • Like 2
Link to comment
https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1383559-server-advice/#findComment-598454069
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, DevTech said:

 

 

 

==========================================

 

I've pasted in the "bare facts". My apologies for also not taking the time to paste in the other suggestions, but I'm tight for time today.

 

==========================================

 

#1 - you can run the whole show on a modern laptop and comfortably exceed your original server. By using a laptop, you can easily move shop to an island with palm trees anytime you feel like it. I think I'm joking here, but hmmm....

 

#2 - #1 is saying anything modern will do the job so anything over and above that is just Optimizing to Get The Best Value

 

#3 - A Xeon CPU really just has a nicer "server bulged out fat cache" to achieve good throughput performance in FULL LOAD conditions which you are far from having so an i7 or i9 CPU if cheaper will do just as good.

 

#4 - If you go with a modern LGA 3647 socket based Xeon then why not specify a mobo with a spare CPU socket, but above all the MAIN FEATURE of the new platform which is 6 WAY RAM

 

#5 - the hard drive config is just a bit too "old school" - the M.2 NVMe (if it is NVMe) is WASTED on booting for server which never needs to boot... 

 

#5 A) use a RAID-1 SATA array with SSD 2 TB for boot and misc installs (Samsung 860 Pro or enterprise equivalent at least as good which is hard to find)

 

#5 B) use 2 M.2 NVMe slots for 4 TB Samsung 970 Pro (or better if you can find that) in RAID-1 for most everything and perfect for DB - A RAID-1 Samsung 970 is going to BLOW AWAY the performance of those old school spinning stupidities...

 

#5 C) use a RAID-1 modern spinning drive for general storage and backup using just the new 12 TB and 14 TB drives like WD Gold for which you just ignore whether you need the size or not and focus in a new reliability level being achieved in those state-of-the-art platters.

 

#5 D) I don't have time to check right now, but an enterprise mobo with enough PCIe lanes to support 8 or more M.2 NVMe sockets would make so much more sense these days...

 

 

I think some of that may be addressed in a new quote they gave me with a different chassis and with iDRAC Enterprise. She said she configured an extra CPU as well.

 

No FGA 817-BBBB - 1 -
PowerEdge T440 Server 210-AMEI - 1 -
Motherboard 329-BDMW - 1 -
No Trusted Platform Module 461-AADZ - 1 -
Chassis with up to 8, 3.5" Hot-Plug Hard Drives, Rack Configuration 321-BCWM - 1 -
PowerEdge T440 Shipping 340-BSJL - 1 -
PowerEdge T440 Shipping Material 343-BBGY - 1 -
Intel Xeon Silver 4110 2.1G, 8C/16T, 9.6GT/s , 11M Cache, Turbo, HT
(85W) DDR4-2400
338-BLUQ - 1 -
Intel Xeon Silver 4110 2.1G, 8C/16T, 9.6GT/s , 11M Cache, Turbo, HT
(85W) DDR4-2400
374-BBPN - 1 -
Standard Heat Sink for 2nd CPU 412-AAKD - 1 -
2666MT/s RDIMMs 370-ADNU - 1 -
Performance Optimized 370-AAIP - 1 -
RAID 10 780-BCDQ - 1 -
PERC H730P RAID Controller, 2GB NV Cache, Adapter, Full Height 405-AAMR - 1 -
BOSS controller card + with 1 M.2 Sticks 240G (No RAID),FH 403-BBPR - 1 -
Windows Server 2019 Standard,16CORE,FI,No Med, No CAL, Multi
Language
634-BSFE - 1 -
Windows Server 2019 Standard,16CORE,Media Kit, Multi Language 634-BSGL - 1 -
Windows Server 2019 Standard,No Media,WS2016 STD Downgrade
Media, Multi Language
634-BSGN - 1 -
iDRAC9,Enterprise 385-BBKT - 1 -
OME Server Configuration Management 528-BBWT - 1 -
iDRAC Service Module (ISM), Pre-Installed in OS 379-BCQW - 1 -
iDRAC Group Manager, Enabled 379-BCQV - 1 -
iDRAC,Legacy Password 379-BCSG - 1 -
On-Board LOM 542-BBBP - 1 -
No Internal Optical Drive 429-AAIQ - 1 -
No Internal Optical Drive 429-AAQS - 1 -
Page 3
Dell inc. U.S. only. Dell inc. is located at One Dell Way, Mail Stop 8129, Round Rock, TX 78682
Dual, Hot-plug, Redundant Power Supply (1+1), 750W 450-AGRC - 1 -
Dell EMC Logo Push Pin 325-BCON - 1 -
No Bezel 350-BBBW - 1 -
Performance BIOS Settings 384-BBBL - 1 -
UEFI BIOS Boot Mode with GPT Partition 800-BBDM - 1 -
No Rack Rails, No Cable Management Arm, No Casters 770-BBCR - 1 -
No Systems Documentation, No OpenManage DVD Kit 631-AACK - 1 -
US Order 332-1286 - 1 -
Basic Next Business Day 12 Months 709-BBFC - 1 -
ProSupport Plus Next Business Day Onsite Service Initial, 12 Month(s) 865-BBKU - 1 -
ProSupport Plus Next Business Day Onsite Service Extension, 48
Month(s)
865-BBKV - 1 -
On-Site Installation Declined 900-9997 - 1 -
16GB RDIMM, 2666MT/s, Dual Rank 370-ADND - 2 -
1.2TB 10K RPM SAS 12Gbps 512n 2.5in Hot-plug Hard Drive, 3.5in
HYB CARR
400-AUQZ - 4 -
10-pack of Windows Server 2019/2016 User CALs (Standard or
Datacenter)
634-BSFS - 1 -
5-pack of Windows Server 2019 Remote Desktop Services, User 634-BSFQ - 1 -
NEMA 5-15P to C13 Wall Plug, 125 Volt, 15 AMP, 10 Feet (3m), Power
Cord, North America
450-AALV - 2 -

 

 

Link to comment
https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1383559-server-advice/#findComment-598454071
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, patseguin said:

I think some of that may be addressed in a new quote they gave me with a different chassis and with iDRAC Enterprise. She said she configured an extra CPU as well.

I'll review in 10 mins but I think all my concerns are still there in almost identical (in terms of issues) 2nd config

Link to comment
https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1383559-server-advice/#findComment-598454074
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, DevTech said:

I'll review in 10 mins but I think all my concerns are still there in almost identical (in terms of issues) 2nd config

Hmm, your main issue seemed to be with storage. They did configure it with SSD for the OS and SAS x4 in RAID 10. I've been running my current server for like 11-12 years without a drive failure or performance issue. Unless SSD's don't skyrocket my price, I'd probably stay with SAS for storage.

Link to comment
https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1383559-server-advice/#findComment-598454077
Share on other sites

If you are happy with the last one, pull the trigger.  

 

It will be more than what you can handle....and dev's information is more info than even I can wrap my head around....he is certainly into the weeds.  

 

Enterprise drac will negate the need of having a kvm....you can remote into the system with the drac ip address if your domain controller goes down and loose internal dns.  You will be allowed to easily perform reboot functions or power on functions so long as you have access to the network (vpn).  

 

Everything else, just make sure you have the storage you need (I recommend raid 6 due to having the ability for 2 drives to fail) or 50 or 60.  I would also recommend you have at least 16GB of memory, more if you plan on adding in virtualization.  

 

I personally would be looking at a vtrx system with vmware, and datacenter licensing.  It will be more money but it will be more power and redundancy and allow you to grow as needed.  upgrade/add compute power as needed.

Link to comment
https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1383559-server-advice/#findComment-598454081
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, patseguin said:

Hmm, your main issue seemed to be with storage. They did configure it with SSD for the OS and SAS x4 in RAID 10. I've been running my current server for like 11-12 years without a drive failure or performance issue. Unless SSD's don't skyrocket my price, I'd probably stay with SAS for storage.

I'm trying to understand your objectives in terms of how they translate into a technical requirement.

 

#1 - you don't really need to upgrade for any performance reason

 

#2 - so, you need to upgrade, yet instead of lookiing at 2019, you config a pumped up 2008 type system that improves on nothing at all (that you need) for this effort

 

#3 - the only thing that could help you in a way your needs might get a shot in the arm is the STORAGE which is why I focus on it!

 

#4 - i will check and see what Dell has available

Link to comment
https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1383559-server-advice/#findComment-598454085
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, sc302 said:

he is certainly into the weeds

Weeds?

 

Server == CNCF at this point - every Industry Giant has signed on to it.

 

Minimum Kube config is 3 active servers, 1 for control, 1 for etcd, 1 for PODS... up to 1,000 for PODS before adding more cluster controllers.

 

Proper advice given.

 

Now he actually wants "Mom & Pop File Server with a FileMaker DB gravy on the side"

 

So, 1 low end PC with nice FAST storage for the DB does that trick.

 

Link to comment
https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1383559-server-advice/#findComment-598454089
Share on other sites

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Posts

    • Microsoft outs Windows 11 KB5095093 with long list of new features by Sayan Sen Microsoft today has released its newest preview update (C-release) for the month of June 2026 under KB5095093, builds 26200.8737 (for Windows 11 25H2) and 26100.8737 (on Windows 11 24H2). The update brings new features across various elements of the OS including the Windows update, the Recovery, Widgets, File Explorer, and more. The full changelog is given below: First up we have the features rolling out gradually: [Point-in-time restore for Windows] New! This flexible recovery feature helps you quickly roll back your PC, including apps, settings, and personal files, to a recent automatic restore point. It helps reduce downtime and simplifies troubleshooting when issues occur. To learn more, see Point-in-time restore for Windows. [Windows Update] New! A calendar experience in Windows Update Settings (Settings > Windows Update) lets you pause updates by choosing an end date, for up to 35 days. You can extend the pause by selecting a different end date and re‑pause updates as needed. For more information, see Pause updates in Windows. [Widgets] New! A quieter, more focused Widgets experience helps reduce interruptions and improves default settings and notification controls: Reduce distractions: Widgets no longer open on hover. Notifications and taskbar badges are minimized by default. Simpler: Open to the Widgets dashboard by default on first use. Customize: Configure Widgets how you want by selecting Settings in the navigation bar, then changing any of the default settings. Stay informed: Dashboard icons show the number of alerts, and badges clear automatically when you leave a dashboard. Adjusted defaults: Some default settings are preserved based on usage, while others adjust to reduce interruptions. Performance improvements: This update provides improved reliability, responsiveness, and visual quality across the Widget experience. [Accessibility] New! This update makes your screen easier to see and customizes your zoom experience: Screen tint: Apply a full-screen color overlay to help reduce eye strain and improve readability. Choose from preset tint options, adjust the intensity, or turn it on automatically. Find this feature in Settings > Accessibility. Magnifier: Enter a zoom percentage directly and change it in increments in the Magnifier window for more precise, flexible control. Magnifier settings menu: You can now also modify zoom increments directly from the magnifier bar instead of navigating to Windows Settings each time. [File Explorer] New! When you hover over a file in File Explorer Home, commands such as Open file location and Ask Copilot appear as quick actions. This experience is now supported for work and school accounts (Entra ID).1 Improves the speed and performance of File Explorer launch.2 Fixes an issue where the OneDrive shortcut in File Explorer stops working when File Explorer is run with administrative mode. The address bar now supports paths containing double backslashes and quotation marks (for example, C:\\Users\\user or "C:\Users\user"), improving compatibility with a wider range of inputs. The address bar suggestion dropdown is more reliable and now consistently closes after an item is selected. This update addresses an issue on File Explorer Home where OneDrive files could appear duplicated in the Favorites section. This update includes several refinements to the Rename experience: Addresses an issue where text was repeatedly selected when renaming items in folder views. Addresses an issue where case-only name changes were not immediately reflected in folder views for items stored locally or in the cloud. [Bluetooth] This update improves reliability and performance when connecting to and using Bluetooth devices: New! Windows now keeps the microphone mute state in sync between the audio mixer and the Hands-Free Profile (HFP) for a more consistent experience with Bluetooth headphones with mute buttons or indicators. Accessory compatibility workarounds: Improves compatibility with specific Bluetooth audio devices, helping AirPods appear faster in pairing mode and improving microphone reliability on Beats Studio Pro headphones. Bluetooth audio stability: Improves overall Windows stability with certain PC manufacturer drivers (error code 0x9F). Improves Bluetooth reliability for voice calls when using Classic Audio devices with the Hands-Free Profile (HFP). Reduces time for LE Audio accessories to start playing audio while using the microphone. Device management: Windows will no longer show a “Remove failed” message when attempting to remove Bluetooth devices if the Bluetooth radio is unavailable or has changed since pairing. Settings experience: Improves stability when using the Bluetooth & devices settings page for a smoother, more consistent experience. Connection reliability and responsiveness: Reduces the time it takes for classic Bluetooth audio devices to reconnect after Windows resumes from hibernation. Improves reliability when LE Audio accessories disconnect, such as when another device (for example, a phone) connects. Improves reliability of LE Audio streaming after a connection is lost and restored. [Bluetooth and Phone Link] This update improves audio routing for calls made through a connected phone: When an outgoing call is dialed from a paired phone, audio remains on the phone while ringing and transfers to the PC only when the call is answered from the PC. When Do Not Disturb is enabled on Windows, incoming call audio from a paired phone no longer rings on the PC. [Voice access and voice typing] New! You can now use voice access and voice typing in French, German, and Spanish. As you speak, your PC improves your text in real time. It corrects grammar, punctuation, and recognition errors, and helps improve clarity—even in the presence of background noise. This makes dictation smoother and reduces the need for manual edits.3 [Audio] This update improves the reliability of the inbox HD Audio driver. [Taskbar] This update improves the reliability of opening the Start menu when selecting the left edge of the taskbar when the icons in the taskbar are left-aligned. [Networking] This update includes networking improvements for virtualized environments. Confidential Virtual Machines (CVMs) now use SR-IOV hardware acceleration by default for improved network throughput, and a configuration issue in nested Hyper-V virtualization network setup has been corrected to ensure reliable VM network provisioning. This update improves the reliability of the Windows networking stack. It reduces bug checks (blue screen errors) related to Wi-Fi power and improves cellular (WWAN) connectivity, including support for IPv6 VPNs. Compatibility with third-party VPN software and SR-IOV configurations on server hardware is also improved. Network adapter settings and bindings are now preserved across OS upgrades. [Printing] New! New printer installations use Internet Printing Protocol (IPP) by default when supported, simplifying setup and improving reliability. For details about third-party driver deprecation, see End of Servicing Plan for Third-Party Printer Drivers on Windows. To control this behavior, use the toggle in Settings > Bluetooth & devices > Printers & scanners > Default install printers using Windows Ready Print. For more information, see Introducing Windows Ready Print and modernized driver selection. For more information, see Introducing Windows Ready Print and Modernized Driver Selection. [Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL)] The update improves usage of WSL in mirrored networking mode with VPNs. [Display and graphics] Improves the reliability of rendering content while scrolling for certain apps spanning across multiple monitors. Improves the reliability and persistence of applying color profiles. [Location services] This update changes how some location settings are displayed in Settings > Privacy & Security > Location to help with clarity. When location services are turned off, settings like Default location and Allow location override don't immediately apply, since location information is not given to apps or services. These settings will now be greyed out when location services are off to reduce confusion over when they take effect. [Search] This update improves the reliability of setting Search related group policies. [Input] New! You can now customize the size of the right-click zone in Settings > Bluetooth & devices > Touchpad. Choose from default, small, medium, or large to control how much of the bottom-right corner responds to a single-finger right-click. This setting is only available on touchpads with a pressable surface. If your device manufacturer provides customization through their own app, a Custom option will appear to reflect those settings. This update improves recognition of English characters when using Japanese handwriting. [General performance] Improves the time to shut down Background Intelligent Transfer Service (BITS) when you turn off your PC. [General Reliability] ​​​​This update improves the reliability of explorer.exe. It addresses issues on the login and lock screens related to third-party credential providers, reduces the probability of taskbar icons appearing as blank gray placeholders, and improves navigation to Home in File Explorer during OneDrive sync. It also improves explorer.exe reliability when switching between desktops, enhances app launch with shell extensions, and using acrylic blur effects in the Start menu, Settings, and the lock screen. [Apps] Resolves an issue where some installers and applications could show unexpected elevation (UAC) prompts after installing KB5089549. [Remote Desktop] This update refreshes the dialog design when you enable Remote Desktop in Settings > System > Remote Desktop. [Graphics Kernel] Improves memory-management policy that allows PCs with more than 32GB of installed memory to run larger local AI models. Up next we have the features under normal rollout: [Secure Boot] With this update, Windows quality updates include additional high confidence device targeting data, increasing coverage of devices eligible to automatically receive new Secure Boot certificates. Devices receive the new certificates only after demonstrating sufficient successful update signals, maintaining a controlled and phased rollout. [Authentication] This update improves Netlogon secure channel connections between domain controllers, enabling successful connections from member servers to domain controllers set up before 2025. [Emoji Panel Update] The emoji panel (Windows key + period (.)) now uses GIPHY for GIF content following the deprecation of Google’s Tenor API. Starting June 30, 2026, install the latest Windows update to continue using GIFs in the Emoji panel. If you don’t update, you will see a "GIF service is not available" error in the panel. Installing the latest Windows update will restore access to GIFs. [Networking] This update improves how your device connects to shared network resources. Connections used by apps and system features, such as the NetUseAdd function, now work more reliably, including unauthenticated (null session) connections. [Recycle Bin (known issue)] Fixed: This update addresses an issue where the confirmation dialog might display an internal Recycle Bin file name instead of the original file name when permanently deleting a file. This issue might occur after installing the June 2026 security update (KB5094126). [Taskbar] This update improves notification badge display across your apps. Notification counts and badge visuals now update correctly, helping you stay up to date with new activity. You can choose to manually download the update from Microsoft's update catalog website at this link.
    • Hands-on with BOOX Tappy: cute little reading accessory by Taras Buria Page turners are quite popular accessories for e-readers, as they enable a hands-free reading experience, which is particularly useful with large readers featuring 10-inch or larger displays. The BOOX Tappy is a new accessory that was introduced earlier this year, and we took this cute-looking thingy for a spin. The Tappy comes in a small box, with two additional buttons and a user manual. The device is made of glossy green plastic and resembles old appliances from the nuclear age. Material quality is great, and each part feels quite premium. Plastic is high-quality, the switch is nice to flick, and the buttons are not rattly. At the bottom, four rubberized feet prevent slipping when used on a desk. Unfortunately, there are no color options, and the Tappy is only available in green. It looks good, but I wish there were other options as well. There are two removable buttons, an on/off switch, and an LED indicator that displays connection mode, charging status, and more. The buttons resemble those of an old typewriter, with quite a long travel distance and a pleasant clack. In the box, you have four buttons with different icons: heart, coffee, O, and X. You can easily swap buttons by simply pulling them upwards. Tip: buttons come with plastic covers, but they are quite tricky to remove. It is hard to call the Tappy the most ergonomic remote control, but after fiddling with it for a few hours, I managed to find a comfortable hand position. Attaching a lanyard to it can make it more comfortable in use without the fear of dropping it, but unfortunately, the Tappy does not come with one. The Tappy connects via Bluetooth 5.2, and it works in three modes, which you can toggle by pressing and holding both buttons for about five seconds: Reading Mode Multimedia Mode Browsing Mode Next / Previous page Next / Previous Track Up / Down scroll If you pair the Tappy with a BOOX device (I tested it with the BOOX Go 10.5 Gen 2 Lumi), you will get small pop-ups indicating the current mode. Plus, you can customize what each button does when pressed one time, two times, or held for a few seconds. The list of available actions and features you can use is massive, and I like that BOOX lets you map stuff like brightness adjustment, app launching, screenshot-taking, screen rotating, navigation, and more. Note, however, that while you can use the Tappy with other readers, its customization is only available on BOOX devices running firmware version 4.2 and newer. I could not connect the Tappy to my computer (Windows 11 claims a driver error when I try), but it worked with the DuRoBo Krono that I recently reviewed. My Kindle Paperwhite refused to work with the Tappy, though, just like my iPhone. The Tappy uses a non-removable Li-Ion battery, which can be recharged with a Type-C cable. BOOX rates the remote for "weeks of use," and I can say that it indeed has very good battery life. While there are no battery indicators on the remote, you can see the current level in the status bar or in Input settings in the BOOX firmware. After a few days of active use, mine still shows about 95%. Overall, the Tappy left a nice impression. It is well-made, and the integration with BOOX devices is great. I also like that BOOX decided to have some fun with its design and swappable buttons. I cannot say I am a fan of its odd shape, though. Still, I managed to find a way to use it comfortably. And when not in use, it just looks neat sitting on the table doing nothing or serving you as a small clacky fidget. Buy BOOX Tappy - $29.99 on Amazon US As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
    • AdGuard Family lifetime deal now only $14.97 by Steven Parker Today's highlighted Neowin Deal comes via our Apps + Software section, where you can get a lifetime subscription and save 91% on a lifetime AdGuard Family Plan. AdGuard is a unique program that has all the necessary features for what they claim to be "the best web experience." The software combines the an advanced ad blocker, a privacy protection module, and a parental control tool—all working in one app. This software deals with annoying ads, hides your data from a multitude of trackers, protects you from malware attacks, and even lets you restrict your kids from accessing inappropriate content. Install AdGuard and see the internet as it was supposed to be: clean and safe. Get rid of annoying banners, pop-ups & video ads once and for all Hide your data from the multitude of trackers & activity analyzers that swarm the web Avoid fraudulent and phishing website and malware attacks Protect your kids online by restricting them from accessing inappropriate & adult content Good to know Family Plan Length of access: lifetime This plan is only available to new users Redemption deadline: redeem your code within 30 days of purchase Max number of devices: 9 Access options: desktop & mobile Software version: AdGuard Family Updates included A lifetime subscription of AdGuard Family Plan normally costs $169.99, but this deal can be yours for just $14.97, that's a saving of $157.02. For full terms, specifications, and license info please click the link below. Get this AdGuard Family lifetime deal for just $14.97 (was $169.99) Although priced in U.S. dollars, this deal is available for digital purchase worldwide. As an online publication, Neowin too relies on ads for operating costs and, if you use an ad blocker, we'd appreciate being whitelisted. In addition, we have an ad-free subscription for $28 a year, which is another way to show support! Support queries If you have queries or need support for any of the Neowin Deals, please use the contact form here. Neowin Deals are managed and sold by StackCommerce who represent Neowin on an affiliate basis. Why we post these deals We post these because we earn commission on each sale so as not to rely solely on advertising, which many of our readers block. It all helps toward paying staff reporters, servers and hosting costs. So for those that keep moaning and complaining, be thankful we're still online for you to even do that. Other ways to support Neowin Whitelist Neowin by not blocking our ads Create a free member account to see fewer ads Make a donation to support our day to day running costs Subscribe to Neowin - for $14 a year, or $28 a year for an ad-free experience Disclosure: Neowin benefits from revenue of each sale made through our branded deals site powered by StackCommerce.
    • Sadly "beats Steam Machine" isn't much of a brag.
    • Passkeys: Think of them like a broken heart necklace. Imagine one of those heart necklaces that breaks into two matching pieces. One person keeps one half, and the other person keeps the other half. With passkeys, the website has one half, and you have the other half. If the website gets hacked and someone steals its half, that stolen piece is useless by itself. It cannot unlock your account without your matching half. This particular heart necklace is one of a kind, there is only one in existence. Your half of the necklace has to be stored somewhere. It might be stored on your phone, tablet, computer, security key, or a password manager that can sync it between all your devices. A security key is a small physical device that you keep with you, kind of like a house key, car key, or flash drive. I would not usually recommend a security key as the first option for the average person. For most people, it is easier to use their phone, computer, or a password manager that can sync passkeys between their devices. A security key is more like a spare key you keep in a safe place, just in case you lose access to your other devices or your password manager. Some security keys plug into your computer. Some plug into your phone or tablet. Some get tapped against your device. The idea is simple: a security key can hold another passkey for the same website. Think of it like creating a second one-of-a-kind heart necklace for the same account. One necklace could be paired with your password manager, while another necklace could be paired with your security key. That means the website has more than one matching half on file. One half matches the passkey in your password manager. Another half matches the passkey stored on your security key. So, if you lose access to your phone, computer, or password manager, you would still be able to log in using the passkey stored on your security key. Think of it like keeping an extra special necklace piece on a tiny keychain, stored somewhere safe. The website still has the matching half for that security key, but your half is safely stored inside the little key. A passkey does not automatically exist on every device you own. It lives wherever you save it. If your half is stored on one device, then that device is the one that has the matching piece. For example, if you create the passkey on your Windows computer and it is only saved to that computer, your iPhone does not automatically have that same half. If you create it on your iPhone and it only stays on that iPhone, your Android phone does not automatically have it either. That is where password managers come in. A password manager can act like a protected jewelry box for your passkeys. Instead of your half of the necklace being locked to only one device, the password manager can securely sync that half to your other approved devices. For example, Apple Passwords and iCloud Keychain can sync passkeys between your Apple devices. Google Password Manager can sync passkeys with your Google account. But password managers such as 1Password and Bitwarden can sync passkeys between everything, your phones, tablets and computers. Now, you might ask: “What happens if I lose access to the device that has my passkey?” That depends on where your passkey was saved and what recovery options the website gives you. If your passkey was synced through a password manager, you may be able to sign in from another device that has access to that same password manager. For example, if your passkey is saved in iCloud Keychain, Google Password Manager, 1Password, or Bitwarden, another approved device may still have access to it. If your passkey was saved only on one phone, computer, or security key, and you lose that device, then you may not have your half of the necklace anymore. In that case, you would usually need to use the website’s backup login or account recovery options. A lot of websites that support passkeys still let you fall back to your regular password. So if you lose access to your passkey, the site may still let you log in with your password, a code sent to your email, a text message, a recovery code, or some other account recovery process. That is convenient, but it is also important to understand: if the website still allows password login, then your password still matters. Passkeys are safer than passwords, but if your account still has a password as a backup, you should still use a strong, unique password and turn on two-factor authentication if the website offers it. This is why it is a good idea to have more than one safe way back into important accounts. For example, you might keep your passkey in a syncing password manager, add a second trusted device, save recovery codes somewhere safe, or set up a backup security key. A passkey is very secure, but just like a real key, you need a backup plan in case you lose access to it. Now, you might ask: “What stops a hacker from copying my half of the necklace?” That’s the important part: your half is protected. It is not something you type in, and it is not something the website gets to keep. Think of your half as being locked inside a tiny safe on your phone, computer, security key, or password manager. That safe only opens when you approve it with your fingerprint, face, PIN, or device password. When you log in, the website does not need to see your half. It only needs proof that your half matches its half. Your actual half is not handed over to the website. This is different from a password. With a password, you type the secret into the website. If you type it into a fake website, the hacker now has it. With a passkey, you are not typing your secret into the website. Your device is proving you have the matching half without giving the half away. That also helps protect you from fake websites. If someone makes a fake login page that looks like the real site, your device can tell it is not the real match. It will not use your passkey there. Now, could someone use your passkey if they stole your device, got into your password manager, or somehow unlocked the safe that holds your half? Yes, that is why your device password, PIN, fingerprint, face unlock, and password manager security still matter. But a hacker cannot just steal your passkey from the website or trick you into typing it into a fake page like they can with a password. That is why passkeys are safer than passwords. The two matching pieces have to come together, like two lovebirds who were once separated and are finally reunited.
  • Recent Achievements

    • One Month Later
      timbobit earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • One Month Later
      nates earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Week One Done
      Almohandis earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • Rookie
      dorf went up a rank
      Rookie
    • First Post
      mike_rumble earned a badge
      First Post
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      470
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      165
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      104
    4. 4
      Michael Scrip
      87
    5. 5
      Steven P.
      70
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!