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sc302    1,723
5 hours ago, DevTech said:

Well if it is possible to see anything I write down in a non-adversarial way, I will say:

 

1. The SSD WILL write faster, just no way that is not possible.

 

2. The main perf limit on most databases is the insane difference between RAM and disk which is why all sorts of cache and other algorithms are applied to avoid a disk write and why "In Memory" database software like Redis has become so popular.

 

3. Oracle could be caching the writes so well that within the measurement window for your DB perf instrumentation there is equally enough time for the 15K write or the SSD write. But still no matter how much spare compute you have the DB should be faster on some sort of measurement.

 

4. It could also be the case that you have an exceptionally high read to write ratio.

 

5. I am sure you will enjoy the search for the mysterious weirdness - I always suspect security software in any enterprise for performance issues. 

 

 

My "area of expertise" is software programming/design/architecture and I have been CTO of the last few companies (start-ups) that I been associated with FWIW which IMO isn't much meaning since data is data always. I am for sure NOT CEO material and I recognize that.

 

Still feeling rather disturbed and I might take a hiatus from the forums for a while, but that's no comment on your personal wonderful attempt to be understanding.

 

 

 

Dev you are simply going overboard and I am simply trying to reel you in a bit.  My messages aren’t to attack but to explain it isn’t always the case....I will give you a piece of information that you didn’t know before and the storage is a little red herring that I threw out there, the middleware is java based...single treaded java processes.   The only way I can ever see speed is if I upgrade compute, less cores/more Hz.  I am on the latest release :(  No storage upgrade will fix that, esp since I am no where near even 10% utilization on the storage processors and bandwidth to the hosts. I peak at 8, average is about 5.  The unity arrays are way overkill. 

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+BudMan    3,458

yeah this system seems a bit over the top if you ask me.. You have 5 users.. Really raid 6 for what amount of data?  How much were those drives?  They are only 1.2TB?  You prob have saved money just getting SDD and doing Raid 1 if you were worried about something failing..

 

The box is prob way over the top cost wise for 5 people... You could prob of gotten by with some $1000 off the shelf nas to be honest... You sure don't need to be paying the MS tax for windows server licenses with 5 users.. Any NAS os would allow you to be a "domain" and central user management, without paying the ms tax..

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DevTech    1,517
18 hours ago, sc302 said:

 

 

Dev you are simply going overboard and I am simply trying to reel you in a bit.  My messages aren’t to attack but to explain it isn’t always the case....I will give you a piece of information that you didn’t know before and the storage is a little red herring that I threw out there, the middleware is java based...single treaded java processes.   The only way I can ever see speed is if I upgrade compute, less cores/more Hz.  I am on the latest release :(  No storage upgrade will fix that, esp since I am no where near even 10% utilization on the storage processors and bandwidth to the hosts. I peak at 8, average is about 5.  The unity arrays are way overkill. 

The point, is I have no point other than curiosity.

 

I get that overall, you can't see a storage effect. And I won't point out that using it as an example for seeing no perf improvement between storage types meant that it was a data point of zero value to anyone trying to have an understanding of that.

 

But it is still interesting to just measure the DB component. DBs are usually very sensitive to data writes so if a RAID-5 spinning plater write takes .5 seconds (for example) and the SSD write takes .005 seconds, there should be a cumulative performance boost that should bubble up in the DB perf instrumentation. And if you see that, then it is just normal expectation, even if it has no "overall system" effect. But if you see something else then it becomes an interesting anomaly. 

 

I am sad that nothing ever calmed down enough to jointly discuss interesting anomalies. But that's the way the cookie crumbled and so thanks for the info, looks like you are doing good stuff...

 

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DevTech    1,517
13 hours ago, BudMan said:

yeah this system seems a bit over the top if you ask me.. You have 5 users.. Really raid 6 for what amount of data?  How much were those drives?  They are only 1.2TB?  You prob have saved money just getting SDD and doing Raid 1 if you were worried about something failing..

 

The box is prob way over the top cost wise for 5 people... You could prob of gotten by with some $1000 off the shelf nas to be honest... You sure don't need to be paying the MS tax for windows server licenses with 5 users.. Any NAS os would allow you to be a "domain" and central user management, without paying the ms tax..

There have been so many subjective viewpoints on this config that it has been an eye-opener for me as everyone clings to their favorite thing like life and death. Or as I liked to portray it - clinging to their warm and comfy Teddy Bears...

 

Personally, I was attracted to the SuperMicro mobo suggestion by @Bryandue to the "Homebrew at Super High Performance for Far Less Money" vibe, but I can see where everyone on this thread is coming from.

 

And warning, your suggestion to use SSD will have the "Teddy Bear Police" on you like greased lightening on a water drenched groundhog...

 

 

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patseguin    1,292

Here's a question for you guys. Can I keep my current server on the network since it already has my embroidery design database running and just use it solely as an embroidery design database server? I'm wondering if I'll have to change its IP address and demote it from a domain controller. I'm guess I will have to do that. Right now it is 192.168.10.2 which AFAIK is the standard setting for a server. I'll make my new server 192.168.10.2 and just change the old server to to a dynamic IP and connect it to the domain that will be set up on new server. Does this sound like a reasonable plan?

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patseguin    1,292
On 6/16/2019 at 1:31 PM, BudMan said:

yeah this system seems a bit over the top if you ask me.. You have 5 users.. Really raid 6 for what amount of data?  How much were those drives?  They are only 1.2TB?  You prob have saved money just getting SDD and doing Raid 1 if you were worried about something failing..

 

The box is prob way over the top cost wise for 5 people... You could prob of gotten by with some $1000 off the shelf nas to be honest... You sure don't need to be paying the MS tax for windows server licenses with 5 users.. Any NAS os would allow you to be a "domain" and central user management, without paying the ms tax..

I get where you're coming from, but the database stuff I have to run is Windows based. I don't think any of it would install on a NAS. I know I went overkill on it probably, but I just decided that I'll pay what I pay and just have enough power for growth.

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sc302    1,723
5 minutes ago, patseguin said:

Here's a question for you guys. Can I keep my current server on the network since it already has my embroidery design database running and just use it solely as an embroidery design database server? I'm wondering if I'll have to change its IP address and demote it from a domain controller. I'm guess I will have to do that. Right now it is 192.168.10.2 which AFAIK is the standard setting for a server. I'll make my new server 192.168.10.2 and just change the old server to to a dynamic IP and connect it to the domain that will be set up on new server. Does this sound like a reasonable plan?

I would plan a migration to get it off of that old unsupported hardware, but you **could** keep it there. 

 

**i wouldn’t recommend it 

 

if it stores info that computers need to get to, it should have a static address. 

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patseguin    1,292
4 minutes ago, sc302 said:

I would plan a migration to get it off of that old unsupported hardware, but you **could** keep it there. 

 

**i wouldn’t recommend it 

 

if it stores info that computers need to get to, it should have a static address. 

Good points. I'm just anticipating in advance if there is any compatibility issue with my embroidery database software and Server 2019. If I absolutely have to for now, I'll configure the old server with a NEW static IP and let it be the design file server for now. I'm just not sure what issues I'll have with that server still on the network. I've never demoted a domain controller before.

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sc302    1,723

It is relatively easy. Transfer the fsmo roles over and the global catalog role over.  You can then demote the old one. It isn’t difficult by any means but if you don’t know, you don’t know.  

 

As stated, if you wish, put it on the network and I will take over the rest. 

 

Also do with the FileMaker Pro, install on the new server and copy the db over and see what happens.   The pcs won’t connect (different mappings/odbc) but you can see what breaks before killing the old server completely. 

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patseguin    1,292
12 minutes ago, sc302 said:

It is relatively easy. Transfer the fsmo roles over and the global catalog role over.  You can then demote the old one. It isn’t difficult by any means but if you don’t know, you don’t know.  

 

As stated, if you wish, put it on the network and I will take over the rest. 

 

Also do with the FileMaker Pro, install on the new server and copy the db over and see what happens.   The pcs won’t connect (different mappings/odbc) but you can see what breaks before killing the old server completely. 

Have you done server work for me before? I had a cell number for a neowin guy who did some config for me a year or so ago but I replaced that phone and can't find who it was!!

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sc302    1,723

I think so. 

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patseguin    1,292
9 minutes ago, sc302 said:

I think so. 

I'll PM you when I have the server on the network. You were immensely helpful before.

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+BudMan    3,458

I just looked that filemaker pro will run on windows 10, 8, shoot even 7.. The lastest 17 version... So yeah fire up some 1000 nas, and run windows a VM on it for your filemaker pro.. Zero reason to pay the MS tax any more then you need too.. They don't even say on their site that it will run on windows server versions..  Only workstation versions of windows are actually certified.

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patseguin    1,292
6 minutes ago, BudMan said:

I just looked that filemaker pro will run on windows 10, 8, shoot even 7.. The lastest 17 version... So yeah fire up some 1000 nas, and run windows a VM on it for your filemaker pro.. Zero reason to pay the MS tax any more then you need too.. They don't even say on their site that it will run on windows server versions..  Only workstation versions of windows are actually certified.

It's Filemaker Server that hosts the files. In fact, I did some research and it seems that FM Server won't even run on non-server OS's...

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+BudMan    3,458

ah - you just stated filemaker pro ;)

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patseguin    1,292
4 hours ago, BudMan said:

ah - you just stated filemaker pro ;)

OK here is just the beginning of my problems. Trying to dcpromo and I get a "general error". Any idea what to do?

 

 

 

IMG_0493.jpg

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+BudMan    3,458

No offense - but why are you touching this stuff?  Are you the owner of the company?  I say let sc302 in and he can set this stuff up for you.. Other then spending more money than you need to too I don't think you really know anything about this tech stuff ;)

 

Those errors are clear and concise... Did you just connect this new box your network via dhcp and think you could run dcpromo on it to make it a DC?

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patseguin    1,292
6 hours ago, BudMan said:

No offense - but why are you touching this stuff?  Are you the owner of the company?  I say let sc302 in and he can set this stuff up for you.. Other then spending more money than you need to too I don't think you really know anything about this tech stuff ;)

 

Those errors are clear and concise... Did you just connect this new box your network via dhcp and think you could run dcpromo on it to make it a DC?

None taken. I am the owner, I was following a tutorial online for setting up active directory. I connected it but I didn't use DHCP. I configured the network adapter with a static IP and configured DNS before I ran dcpromo. Sc302 is on vacation so I decided to try it myself.

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+Fahim S.    1,086
7 hours ago, BudMan said:

No offense - but why are you touching this stuff?  Are you the owner of the company?  I say let sc302 in and he can set this stuff up for you.. Other then spending more money than you need to too I don't think you really know anything about this tech stuff ;)

 

Those errors are clear and concise... Did you just connect this new box your network via dhcp and think you could run dcpromo on it to make it a DC?

According to posts early in the thread setting up domain controllers and such stuff is “easy” and a “10 minute job”. 

 

Agree on getting a pro in, even if it is a 10 minute job. Who needs the hassle of doing this?

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patseguin    1,292
6 minutes ago, Fahim S. said:

According to posts early in the thread setting up domain controllers and such stuff is “easy” and a “10 minute job”. 

 

Agree on getting a pro in, even if it is a 10 minute job. Who needs the hassle of doing this?

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. I figured since I've been building and configuring PC's for years, I could configure a "simple" server. I was following this guide: https://www.moderndeployment.com/windows-server-2019-active-directory-installation-beginners-guide/

 

But  ran into that error.

 

Should I try that web based config tool that it offered me to download? I'm not sure if or how I can undo by DNS config, just so I can start all over...

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+BudMan    3,458
3 hours ago, Fahim S. said:

such stuff is “easy” and a “10 minute job”. 

It is for someone that understands the basic requirements ;)

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sc302    1,723
3 hours ago, Fahim S. said:

According to posts early in the thread setting up domain controllers and such stuff is “easy” and a “10 minute job”. 

 

Agree on getting a pro in, even if it is a 10 minute job. Who needs the hassle of doing this?

There is nothing difficult about it and it is easy. It is the over compensating for a click click next process that is difficult. Sometimes you have to go with the flow.   Also reading screens is helpful at times.  I don’t know it has been a long while since I setup an ad controller, not sure if I can remember the process, I may actually have to read the screens to make sure it doesn’t get hosed.  You should also know a dc can’t be a dhcp’d client, it can host dhcp, it doesn’t have to, but it does need a static address...but an error should come up stating that. Making it a member server also makes it a little easier vs trying to go to a dc right out of the box. 

 

Second Out of the box dc really needs dns set up prior, seems to like it much better (less errors) if it has sync’d with the existing ad environment first.  If I remember, it saved the reboot  causing you to add it to the domain prior to promoting. Not really the Microsoft approved way or trained on way for their certification path. 

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+Fahim S.    1,086
3 hours ago, sc302 said:

There is nothing difficult about it and it is easy. It is the over compensating for a click click next process that is difficult. Sometimes you have to go with the flow.   Also reading screens is helpful at times.  I don’t know it has been a long while since I setup an ad controller, not sure if I can remember the process, I may actually have to read the screens to make sure it doesn’t get hosed.  You should also know a dc can’t be a dhcp’d client, it can host dhcp, it doesn’t have to, but it does need a static address...but an error should come up stating that. Making it a member server also makes it a little easier vs trying to go to a dc right out of the box. 

 

Second Out of the box dc really needs dns set up prior, seems to like it much better (less errors) if it has sync’d with the existing ad environment first.  If I remember, it saved the reboot  causing you to add it to the domain prior to promoting. Not really the Microsoft approved way or trained on way for their certification path. 

I’m sorry, but the fact that you had to write all of that to explain what you regard as ‘basics’ means that this isn’t ‘simple’ or ‘something that anyone can do’. 

 

I’m not arguing with what the right thing to do is (although I do maintain that I believe setting up a domain for 5 users is overkill and a workgroup would probably be sufficient), but you still have to be an ‘expert’ to do it. 

 

If you go this route, you get a pro to do the work so that it is done properly and not just fumbled through by someone who half (at best) understands the concepts behind what is actually happening. 

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patseguin    1,292

There is nothing easy about it. I finally disabled the iDRAC network port and the ethernet #2 port, leaving just 1 ethernet port. After that, AD seemed to install and the server rebooted and now appears to be on the domain that I created. It was easy, I could now just connect my workstations. But, I guess I have to do more Googling and figure out how to configure forward and reverse lookup zones or forests or whatever. I tried connecting to the new domain with my workstation just for giggles but of course that new domain couldn't be found on the network.

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DevTech    1,517
1 hour ago, Fahim S. said:

setting up a domain for 5 users is overkill

There is no contorted gymnastics of human imagination for which a 5 user AD makes sense.

 

There might be fuzzy unstated objectives that have led to that.

 

I wonder if a person was to say, "With XX users, AD starts to have real value" what people would decide on for "XX" - 5 users? 10 users? 15 users? 20 users? 30 users? 50 users?

 

I don't know the answer, but I am a naturally curious person so would people converge to a number or would it be random?

 

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