Server Advice

[patseguin Global Moderator]

OK thanks for everyone taking so much time to help me. Here is a configuration my Dell rep just did for me. Looks like she added support, 2x 300GB hybrid drive in RAID1 for OS/Boot.

 

Is Server 2019 Essentials a better solution for me that Server Standard?

 

You guys like this knowing what you know about my company now?

 

PowerEdge T340 Server 210-AQSN - 1 -
No Trusted Platform Module 461-AADZ - 1 -
3.5" Chassis up to 8 Hot Plug Hard Drives 321-BDVX - 1 -
PowerEdge T340 Shipping 340-CHHS - 1 -
Intel Xeon E-2134 3.5GHz, 8M cache, 4C/8T, turbo (71W) 338-BQBG - 1 -
Standard Heatsink for PE T330/T340 412-AAHC - 1 -
2666MT/s UDIMMs 370-AEKM - 1 -
Performance Optimized 370-AAIP - 1 -
RAID 0 780-BCDL - 1 -
PERC H730P RAID Controller, 2GB NV Cache, Adapter, Full Height 405-AAMR - 1 -
On-Board LOM 542-BBBP - 1 -
iDRAC9,Enterprise 385-BBKT - 1 -
DVD +/-RW, SATA, Internal 429-ABCJ - 1 -
Casters 770-BCJL - 1 -
Security Bezel 325-BCOO - 1 -
Performance BIOS Settings 384-BBBL - 1 -
Dual, Hot-plug, Redundant Power Supply 1+1, 495W 450-AHVO - 1 -
No Systems Documentation, No OpenManage DVD Kit 631-AACK - 1 -
Windows Server 2019 Essentials,FI,No Med,No CAL, Multi Language 634-BSFC - 1 -
Windows Server 2019 Essentials,Media Kit, Multi Language 634-BSGH - 1 -
Windows Server 2019 Essentials,No Media,WS2016 ESS Downgrade
Media, Multi Language
634-BSGM - 1 -
Bring Your Own VSAN Licenses 634-BHWE - 1 -
UEFI BIOS Boot Mode with GPT Partition 800-BBDM - 1 -
US Order 332-1286 - 1 -
PowerEdge T340 Motherboard 329-BDWZ - 1 -
PowerEdge T340 Shipping Material 343-BBLM - 1 -
iDRAC Group Manager, Enabled 379-BCQV - 1 -
Page 3
Dell inc. U.S. only. Dell inc. is located at One Dell Way, Mail Stop 8129, Round Rock, TX 78682
iDRAC,Factory Generated Password 379-BCSF - 1 -
Basic Next Business Day 12 Months 709-BBFB - 1 -
ProSupport Next Business Day Onsite Service Initial, 12 Month(s) 865-BBKQ - 1 -
ProSupport Next Business Day Onsite Service Extension, 48 Month(s) 865-BBKR - 1 -
On-Site Installation Declined 900-9997 - 1 -
iDRAC Service Module (ISM), Pre-Installed in OS 379-BCQW - 1 -
16GB 2666MT/s DDR4 ECC UDIMM 370-AEKL - 1 -
300GB 15K RPM SAS 12Gbps 512n 2.5in Hot-plug Hard Drive, 3.5in
HYB CARR
400-APSP - 2 -
4TB 7.2K RPM NLSAS 12Gbps 512n 3.5in Hot-plug Hard Drive 400-ASNK - 3 -
NEMA 5-15P to C13 Wall Plug, 125 Volt, 15 AMP, 10 Feet (3m), Power
Cord, North America
450-AALV - 2 -
10-pack of Windows Server 2019/2016 User CALs (Standard or
Datacenter)
634-BSFS - 1 -
ENT CONFIG SVCS,FEE, RAID 1 SINGLE CONTAINER ON 2HDD 366-0227 - 1 -
ENT CONFIG SVCS,FEE, RAID 5 SINGLE CONTAINER ON 3HDD 366-0230 - 1 -
Subtotal:
Shipping:
Estimated Tax:
Total:
$4,434.69
$0.00
$388.04
$4,822.73

[patseguin Global Moderator]

3 hours ago, sc302 said:

I was able to get a raid 6 config...not under 5 but at 6100....

 

take a look, again you will have to build and check with your rep to get pricing better.  

 

Manufacturer "laziness" aside, a current setup regardless of how "old" it is will be supported by the manufacturer for the warranty time specified 3 years, 5years, etc and can be extended beyond that in almost every case.  So squeezing every bit of current technology performance isn't something that I worry about as much as having a business continue to run for the time frame a warranty can be bought for.  Essentially if you aren't going to offer up support for the system, don't suggest something outside of what can be offered.  I can build a crazy fast system, as good or better than you possibly could....I won't support him when it fails and I do expect some hardware to fail at some point whether there be environmental damage outside of our control (flooded office, lightening hit, etc) and I won't be a phone call away with parts on standby ready to ship nor will I be a one stop shop for all of his problems in relation to this server purchase.

 

 

How do you think your build is vs the one I just posted. Yours is about $1,200 more, which I'm fully willing to pay as long as it makes sense. DO you think RAID6 is a huge step better than RAID5?

[Mindovermaster Moderator]

2 minutes ago, patseguin said:

How do you think your build is vs the one I just posted. Yours is about $1,200 more, which I'm fully willing to pay as long as it makes sense. DO you think RAID6 is a huge step better than RAID5?

With RAID5 you only have room for 1 fail drive. I RAID6, you have 2...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID

[sc302 Veteran]

26 minutes ago, patseguin said:

How do you think your build is vs the one I just posted. Yours is about $1,200 more, which I'm fully willing to pay as long as it makes sense. DO you think RAID6 is a huge step better than RAID5?

I think raid 6 is better in the fact that you can have 2 drive failures...I think it is worse because there is an extra drive where you can't utilize the disk space from.  Performance wise it is about the same.  The issue with raid 5 is if you lose a second drive (not uncommon) in the time that it takes you to replace and have the array rebuild properly, the entire raid is toast.  In a raid 0/jobd, if you lose 1 drive your array is toast.  Raid 1, if you lose one drive you have a 50/50 chance of the server crashing but the second drive is still good usually but if you don't have a replacement or the raid fails during rebuild the array is toast.   Raid 6, if you lose a drive and it rebuilds, a second drive can fail at any point and you would still be ok.  The chances of losing 3 drives is much smaller than losing 1 or 2 drives causing your array to be toast.  During rebuild, your drives are working hard to synchronize all data across the platters.  So I do think raid 6 is worth it, though more expensive than raid 5 being that you lose 2 disks vs 1 disk to maintain the raid requirements.  A lot of people utilized raid 5 with a hot spare to fail over to, but were experiencing failures during the rebuild due to how taxing it is on the drives, and it is a hot spare...that drive is always spinning just like the rest of the drives and is prone to failure as much as the rest of the drives.  

 

Higher level raids above 0 are insurance...hope you never need to utilize but if you do you know you are protected to a degree.  A lot of servers, I would do a raid 1 OS and a raid 5 or 6 data.  The data was always more important than the system as the data cannot be reproduced if lost, the system can be recreated and repointed to the data if needed.  

 

I think essentials would be fine for you.  I personally don't like all of the added functions that get added with essentials, but looking at it, it certainly is much less than the old small business server (sql and exchange were both part of sbs and could not be fully disabled or uninstalled, no matter how hard I tried) in regards to being a resource hog.  

[patseguin Global Moderator]

38 minutes ago, sc302 said:

I think raid 6 is better in the fact that you can have 2 drive failures...I think it is worse because there is an extra drive where you can't utilize the disk space from.  Performance wise it is about the same.  The issue with raid 5 is if you lose a second drive (not uncommon) in the time that it takes you to replace and have the array rebuild properly, the entire raid is toast.  In a raid 0/jobd, if you lose 1 drive your array is toast.  Raid 1, if you lose one drive you have a 50/50 chance of the server crashing but the second drive is still good usually but if you don't have a replacement or the raid fails during rebuild the array is toast.   Raid 6, if you lose a drive and it rebuilds, a second drive can fail at any point and you would still be ok.  The chances of losing 3 drives is much smaller than losing 1 or 2 drives causing your array to be toast.  During rebuild, your drives are working hard to synchronize all data across the platters.  So I do think raid 6 is worth it, though more expensive than raid 5 being that you lose 2 disks vs 1 disk to maintain the raid requirements.  A lot of people utilized raid 5 with a hot spare to fail over to, but were experiencing failures during the rebuild due to how taxing it is on the drives, and it is a hot spare...that drive is always spinning just like the rest of the drives and is prone to failure as much as the rest of the drives.  

 

Higher level raids above 0 are insurance...hope you never need to utilize but if you do you know you are protected to a degree.  A lot of servers, I would do a raid 1 OS and a raid 5 or 6 data.  The data was always more important than the system as the data cannot be reproduced if lost, the system can be recreated and repointed to the data if needed.  

 

I think essentials would be fine for you.  I personally don't like all of the added functions that get added with essentials, but looking at it, it certainly is much less than the old small business server (sql and exchange were both part of sbs and could not be fully disabled or uninstalled, no matter how hard I tried) in regards to being a resource hog.  

Thanks, so in your build you did 4x 2TB drive in RAID6. How much usable space is that?

[sc302 Veteran]

Simple. Raid 6 two drives are essentially dead and cannot be considered as part of the space equasion.... 4 drives minus 2 drives equals 2 drives worth of space. 

 

2x2=4tb. 

[+Fahim S. MVC]

6 hours ago, patseguin said:

Also, does Windows Server Essentials sound appropriate for me as opposed to Server Standard?

Not if you are running FileMaker Server...

https://www.filemaker.com/products/filemaker-server/18-technical-specifications.html

 

 

[sc302 Veteran]

1 minute ago, Fahim S. said:

Not if you are running FileMaker Server...

https://www.filemaker.com/products/filemaker-server/18-technical-specifications.html

 

 

Good looking out.  Though you would think it would be supported.  Perhaps a phone call to verify is in order.  

[+Fahim S. MVC]

Just now, sc302 said:

Good looking out.  Though you would think it would be supported.  Perhaps a phone call to verify is in order.  

Lots of forum posts on it.  Apparently the issue is that it works on the same ports as a number of the services that makes Essentials easy to manage - and disabling them is a pain.

It's not supported (even if you could do it), and if it goes wrong, they won't help you.... if you are hellbent on making a super reliable server, why would you run your application on an unsupported configuration?

[sc302 Veteran]

I didn’t see anything blatantly obvious with the enabled options in essentials that would cause an issue but then again the last time I touched FileMaker was in 2012.  I fully agree with you.  I always like to double check with the vendor in cases like this, where it seems feasible. Not supported for good reason should be a show stopper. Not supported because they didn’t think to include it is a separate issue altogether.  

[patseguin Global Moderator]

2 hours ago, Fahim S. said:

Lots of forum posts on it.  Apparently the issue is that it works on the same ports as a number of the services that makes Essentials easy to manage - and disabling them is a pain.

It's not supported (even if you could do it), and if it goes wrong, they won't help you.... if you are hellbent on making a super reliable server, why would you run your application on an unsupported configuration?

Thanks! I guess I should forget essentials and just get standard.

[DevTech]

RAID-5 should never be used for a Database. EVER. Depending on the actual hardware it goes from really bad to super-horrid on write speeds.

 

And if you are crazy enough to use slow spinning disks instead of SSD, then you are taking bad stuff and just intentionally making it worse.

 

You will find NO reputable source to support the idea of RAID-5 for a Database.

 

[DevTech]

7 hours ago, patseguin said:

OK thanks for everyone taking so much time to help me. Here is a configuration my Dell rep just did for me. Looks like she added support, 2x 300GB hybrid drive in RAID1 for OS/Boot.

 

Is Server 2019 Essentials a better solution for me that Server Standard?

 

You guys like this knowing what you know about my company now?

 

PowerEdge T340 Server 210-AQSN - 1 -
3.5" Chassis up to 8 Hot Plug Hard Drives 321-BDVX - 1 -
PowerEdge T340 Shipping 340-CHHS - 1 -
Intel Xeon E-2134 3.5GHz, 8M cache, 4C/8T, turbo (71W) 338-BQBG - 1 -
RAID 0 780-BCDL - 1 -
PERC H730P RAID Controller, 2GB NV Cache, Adapter, Full Height 405-AAMR - 1 -
DVD +/-RW, SATA, Internal 429-ABCJ - 1 -
Windows Server 2019 Essentials,FI,No Med,No CAL, Multi Language 634-BSFC - 1 -
Windows Server 2019 Essentials,Media Kit, Multi Language 634-BSGH - 1 -
Windows Server 2019 Essentials,No Media,WS2016 ESS Downgrade
ProSupport Next Business Day Onsite Service Initial, 12 Month(s) 865-BBKQ - 1 -
ProSupport Next Business Day Onsite Service Extension, 48 Month(s) 865-BBKR - 1 -
16GB 2666MT/s DDR4 ECC UDIMM 370-AEKL - 1 -
300GB 15K RPM SAS 12Gbps 512n 2.5in Hot-plug Hard Drive, 3.5in
HYB CARR
400-APSP - 2 -
4TB 7.2K RPM NLSAS 12Gbps 512n 3.5in Hot-plug Hard Drive 400-ASNK - 3 -
450-AALV - 2 -
10-pack of Windows Server 2019/2016 User CALs (Standard or
Datacenter)
Total:
$4,434.69
$0.00
$388.04
$4,822.73

So far, by a long shot that Dell Precision 7920 looks like a finely crafted piece of engineering.

 

If it is the  money difference, it can be configured with the low RAM and low CPU as the PowerEdge T340

 

And all the spinning stuff is nuts. Think about it - you are taking less reliable storage and in order to compensate for that you are adding to the noisy spinning mess with extra drives!

 

I'll see if I can find something quality in the Dell server section. Maybe one of the engineers on the Precision team transferred over somewhere...

 

[DevTech]

Dell Config DevTech-3

 

$4837

 

PowerEdge T640 Tower Server

https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/pdr/poweredge-t640/pe_t640_12442b_vi_vp?selectionState=eyJPQyI6InBlX3Q2NDBfMTI0NDJiX3ZpX3ZwIiwiTW9kcyI6W3siSWQiOjE1MzQsIk9wdHMiOlt7IklkIjoiVUVGSUIifV19LHsiSWQiOjE1NDAsIk9wdHMiOlt7IklkIjoiNTA5ODg3NCJ9XX0seyJJZCI6MTU3MCwiT3B0cyI6W3siSWQiOiJHQUJEU0sxIiwiUXR5Ijo0fV19LHsiSWQiOjE2MjAsIk9wdHMiOlt7IklkIjoiNzUwTlIifV19LHsiSWQiOjE2NTAsIk9wdHMiOlt7IklkIjoiR1BCWjVVSSJ9XX0seyJJZCI6MTY1MiwiT3B0cyI6W3siSWQiOiJHNjdQRzVDIn1dfSx7IklkIjoxNjkxLCJPcHRzIjpbeyJJZCI6IjUxMDI0MzUifV19XX0%3D&cartItemId=

 

 

• PowerEdge T640 Server
• Chassis with up to 8" x 3.5 SAS/SATA Hard Drives, Tower Configuration
• Intel® Xeon® Silver 4114 2.2G, 10C/20T, 9.6GT/s, 14M Cache, Turbo, HT (85W) DDR4-2400
• 16GB RDIMM, 2666MT/s, Dual Rank
• C5, RAID 10 for HDDs or SSDs in pairs (Matching Type/Speed/Capacity)
• PERC H330 RAID Controller
• 480GB SSD SATA Mix Use 6Gbps 512 2.5in Hot-plug AG Drive,3.5in HYB CARR, 3 DWPD, 2628 TBW
• 480GB SSD SATA Mix Use 6Gbps 512 2.5in Hot-plug AG Drive,3.5in HYB CARR
• 480GB SSD SATA Mix Use 6Gbps 512 2.5in Hot-plug AG Drive,3.5in HYB CARR
• 480GB SSD SATA Mix Use 6Gbps 512 2.5in Hot-plug AG Drive,3.5in HYB CARR
• Windows Server® 2019 Standard,16CORE,FI,No Med,No CAL, Multi Language
• iDRAC9, Express
• iDRAC Server Manager Enabled
• Single, Hot-plug Power Supply (1+0), 750W
• UEFI BIOS Boot Mode with GPT Partition
• ProSupport and Next Business Day Onsite Service, 36 Month(s)

 

 

Could save a few bucks with slower CPU

Planning to look at some of the Dell Rack Mount Units of which there appear to be hundreds of different models so...

 

EDIT: I edited to make it clear this is a RAID-10 SSD config, so 480gb + 480gb = 960gb mirrored to another 960gb

 

 

[DevTech]

For those who are interested, I have figured out where Dell is hiding (in plain sight) the modern storage options. There is no way to tell if this is intentional due to a supply situation or just bad communication between sales and their website people.

 

The main point is one of the top server providers with a great engineering team does in fact have lots of advanced server side NVMe storage in 2019 but then they shoot themselves in the foot by hiding it.

 

I have randomly tried this on a few servers and some have it and some don't which I suspect depends on how recent the design is.

 

 

 

How to find the hidden NVMe server drives

 

STEP 1:

• Near the top of the Customization area before the CPU selection is "Chassis"
• At the bottom of the listed items is a small arrow labeled "more"
• Click on that
• It will list more Chassis options and you are looking for "PCIe SSD" OR "NVME"
• Click on that radio button
• Example: "Chassis with up to 6, 2.5" Hard Drives, 4 PCIe SSDs, 3 PCIe Slots"
• This adds about $200

 

STEP 2:

• In order (I guess) to have enough PCIe lanes, the 2nd CPU must be enabled
• Downsize the 1st CPU to the cheapest
• Then go down to "Additional Processor" and click that on
• depending on downsize, it adds 0 - $300

 

 

STEP 3:

• By selecting a SSD Chassis, a selection of NVMe hard drives will NOW show up!
• Go down to the hard drive selection
• After SATA SSD, SAS SSD, SAS, SATA, there will be a section labeled Others
• In Others, you still need to go down the list to the little arrow labeled "more"
• When you click on more, the NVMe drives will finally show up!

 

 

 

EXAMPLE LIST OF NVMe drives:

 

• Dell 1.6TB, NVMe, Mixed Use Express Flash, 2.5 SFF Drive, U.2, PM1725b with Carrier  $1798
• Dell 3.2TB, NVMe, Mixed Use Express Flash, 2.5 SFF Drive, U.2, PM1725b with Carrier  $3191
• Dell 1TB, NVMe, Read Intensive Express Flash, 2.5 SFF Drive, U.2, P4510 with Carrier   $1101
• Dell 4TB, NVMe, Read Intensive Express Flash, 2.5 SFF Drive, U.2, P4510 with Carrier  $3944
• Dell 1.6TB, NVMe, Mixed Use Express Flash, 2.5 SFF Drive, U.2, P4610 with Carrier   $1740
• Dell 3.2TB, NVMe, Mixed Use Express Flash, 2.5 SFF Drive, U.2, P4610 with Carrier  $3190
• Dell 6.4TB, NVMe, Mixed Use Express Flash, 2.5 SFF Drive, U.2, P4610 with Carrier  $6090
• Dell 375GB, NVMe, Ultra Performance Express Flash, 2.5 SFF Drive, U.2, P4800X with Carrier $ 2146

 

 

EDIT: I've found NVMe listed outside the drive section so this solution is just an illustration of the difficulty of locating Dell NVMe

 

Also, the NVMe prices are so out of line with sanity that I suspect a Dell rep must have a lot of margin to reduce them

 

[DevTech]

Dell Config DevTech-4

 

$5938

 

PowerEdge R640 Rack Server

https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/pdr/poweredge-r640/pe_r640_12232_vi_vp?selectionState=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%3D&cartItemId=

 

 

• PowerEdge R640 Server
• Chassis up to 10 x 2.5 Hard Drives including 10 NVMe, Max of 8 SAS/SATA, 3 PCIe Slots, 2 CPU only
• Intel® Xeon® Bronze 3104 1.7G, 6C/6T, 9.6GT/s, 8M Cache, No Turbo, No HT (85W) DDR4-2133
• Intel® Xeon® Bronze 3104 1.7G, 6C/6T, 9.6GT/s, 8M Cache, No Turbo, No HT (85W) DDR4-2133
• 8GB RDIMM, 2666MT/s, Single Rank x 2 = 16gb
• C1, No RAID for HDDs/SSDs (Mixed Drive Types Allowed)
• HBA330 12Gbps SAS HBA Controller (NON-RAID), Minicard
• 240GB SSD SATA Read Intensive 6Gbps 512 2.5in Hot-plug Boot AG Drive, 1 DWPD,438 TBW
• Dell 1TB, NVMe, Read Intensive Express Flash, 2.5 SFF Drive, U.2, P4510 with Carrier
• Dell 1TB, NVMe, Read Intensive Express Flash, 2.5 SFF Drive, U.2, P4510 with Carrier
• Windows Server® 2019 Standard,16CORE,FI,No Med,No CAL, Multi Language
• 8 Performance Fans for R640
• Single, Hot-plug Power Supply (1+0), 495W
• UEFI BIOS Boot Mode with GPT Partition
• Next Business Day Onsite Service, 37 Month(s)

 

 

[DevTech]

Dell Config DevTech-5

 

$5988

 

PowerEdge R740xd Rack Server

 

https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/pdr/poweredge-r740xd/pe_r740xd_12238_vi_vp?selectionState=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&cartItemId=

 

• PowerEdge R740XD Server
• Chassis up to 24 x 2.5” Hard Drives including max of 12 NVME Drives, 2CPU Configuration
• Intel® Xeon® Bronze 3104 1.7G, 6C/6T, 9.6GT/s, 8M Cache, No Turbo, No HT (85W) DDR4-2133
• Intel® Xeon® Bronze 3104 1.7G, 6C/6T, 9.6GT/s, 8M Cache, No Turbo, No HT (85W) DDR4-2133
• 8GB RDIMM, 2666MT/s, Single Rank x 2 = 16gb
• C1, No RAID for HDDs/SSDs (Mixed Drive Types Allowed)
• HBA330 Controller, 12Gbps Adapter, Low Profile
• 480GB SSD SATA Mix Use 6Gbps 512 2.5in Hot-plug AG Drive, 3 DWPD, 2628 TBW
• Dell 1.6TB, NVMe, Mixed Use Express Flash, 2.5 SFF Drive, U.2, PM1725b with Carrier
• Windows Server® 2019 Standard,16CORE,FI,No Med,No CAL, Multi Language
• Riser Config 6, 5 x8, 3 x16 slots, Single-Wide GPU compatible
• Broadcom 5720 Quad Port 1GbE BASE-T, rNDC
• 6 Performance Fans forR740/740XD
• Single, Hot-plug Power Supply (1+0), 750W
• UEFI BIOS Boot Mode with GPT Partition
• Next Business Day Onsite Service, 37 Month(s)

 

 

 

[patseguin Global Moderator]

Here's a question I think I forgot to ask. My embroidery machine software has been approved for Windows Server 2012 and one of them tested fine on Server 2016. If it works on 2016, will it work on 2019? If not, is this a case where I could configure a VM with Windows Server 2008 in it to handle the embroidery software databases? I say Server 2008 because I already have a license for it. Or for that matter, the embroidery software works on Windows 10 so could I do a VM with Windows 10 to handle that software if it doesn't work with Server 2019?

[sc302 Veteran]

I think you have to license hyper v for 2019 but not100%.  Microsoft licensing changes so much.  1 vm guest use to be included. Talk to dell about getting media and key for activation for a guest os

[DevTech]

2 hours ago, patseguin said:

Here's a question I think I forgot to ask. My embroidery machine software has been approved for Windows Server 2012 and one of them tested fine on Server 2016. If it works on 2016, will it work on 2019? If not, is this a case where I could configure a VM with Windows Server 2008 in it to handle the embroidery software databases? I say Server 2008 because I already have a license for it. Or for that matter, the embroidery software works on Windows 10 so could I do a VM with Windows 10 to handle that software if it doesn't work with Server 2019?

This would have to be the world's worst piece of Software Junk for it to not work on 2019, while working on 2016. Really bad software + illuminati intervention + NSA Spy Software + Chinese Trojan + Putin's Cousin would have to combine for that to be possible.

 

Like... Planning is Good, but planning for the extremely unlikely is an energy drain.

 

But at the risk of putting focus on it, I did see some Hyper-V checkboxes on some server configs and they all had a price of $0.00 attached to them. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to set up Hyper-V and a couple of "empty" VMs so if you every need them to test something, it is quick and easy.

 

It would be Totally Crazy for Microsoft to have a "Hyper-V Tax" since they really integrated it into the O/S in Windows 10 and Server 2016 - For example it forms the core of the Windows Container system and also is used in various security sandboxing for device drivers and I suspect it will hit the WOW layer at some point.

 

Similarly in the "Planning That is Useful" department, you should strongly consider a budget "bonus" for a 32 gig or 64 gig RAM footprint because sourcing anything down the road looks like it will be a tedious and annoying process.

 

EDIT: Note that for a Single CPU config, 6 modules of 8 gigs gets you the 6-way RAM that thew new "Scalable" Xeon series on LGA 3647 is famous for, making 48 gigs the "sweet spot" for single CPU. Dell's price gouging on "add-ons" means that the VAST BULK of all server sales must be lacking in a major new design feature for Intel's Xeon series.

[DevTech]

It just did not make sense that today's single most useful piece of tech to perk up your computer is missing from the Server. As Spock would say, "That is not logical"

 

So what a feeling to uncover some of the mystery of NVMe on the Server. The Logical part is that it is a solidly implemented technology. The illogical part is that this logical, useful advance in engineering is mostly hidden on the website and to clueless sales reps.

 

Picture the Maytag Repairman from those old commercials, a lonely creature sitting all by himself in some back room. Today, there is a Dell Engineer or a whole team of engineers scratching their heads with that same forlorn puzzled expression.

 

They created modern Hot Swap Plug in Modules with banks of 10 or 12 or 24 Slots for pluggable NVMe Flash Drives, perhaps one of the most significant server performance boosts in a decade! And then who knows about it?

 

The Dell Sales Reps are still flogging 15,000 RPM and 10,000 RPM ancient spinning platters of jet engine whine that perform like walking through a wet stinking hot bug infested swamp compared to NVMe.

 

Maybe those reps are listening to 1980's music on their iPods when Enterprise Platters were 30" and 24" and 15K spinners were the predictions of the future kings of storage. But "to everything there is a season" and those noisy monstrosities of data must join the optical disk in obscurity... They came, They ruled the Enterprise for a while, and now they must go.

 

 

[DaveLegg Developer]

2 hours ago, DevTech said:

The Dell Sales Reps are still flogging 15,000 RPM and 10,000 RPM ancient spinning platters of jet engine whine that perform like walking through a wet stinking hot bug infested swamp compared to NVMe.

 

They may be slow compared to NVMe, but they're perfectly adequate for the vast majority of Dell's customers. Not everyone needs the absolute best IO performance. Neowin's web servers run on spinning disks, and IO is not a bottle neck. The same can probably be said for the majority of web servers. Our database servers run on standard SSDs, and not NVMe drives, again, IO is not an issue.

 

Not everyone in the world is a huge enterprise needing to squeeze every last drop of performance out of their hardware

[sc302 Veteran]

Just now, DaveLegg said:

They may be slow compared to NVMe, but they're perfectly adequate for the vast majority of Dell's customers. Not everyone needs the absolute best IO performance. Neowin's web servers run on spinning disks, and IO is not a bottle neck. The same can probably be said for the majority of web servers. Our database servers run on standard SSDs, and not NVMe drives, again, IO is not an issue.

 

Not everyone in the world is a huge enterprise needing to squeeze every last drop of performance out of their hardware

Thank you.   

[DevTech]

17 minutes ago, DaveLegg said:

They may be slow compared to NVMe, but they're perfectly adequate for the vast majority of Dell's customers. Not everyone needs the absolute best IO performance. Neowin's web servers run on spinning disks, and IO is not a bottle neck. The same can probably be said for the majority of web servers. Our database servers run on standard SSDs, and not NVMe drives, again, IO is not an issue.

 

Not everyone in the world is a huge enterprise needing to squeeze every last drop of performance out of their hardware

Oh good grief! It is a question of "value" and direction!

 

By that argument you could hook a bunch of floppy drives to an array of Commodore-64s and with sufficiently large cluster size, get the perf you need.

 

There is right, and wrong, and then there is just a little bit slime-ooze-in-the-swampness...

 

Dell is my favorite hardware manufacturer from Laptops to Desktops to Servers but that doesn't mean I won't point out some absolutely ridiculous anomalies even if Lenovo and HP are happy to play along.

 

Flogging warehouse inventory junk to customers sucks even if the customer is bamboozled into thinking its a good deal. Hey that's Apple's business model. So I don't buy Apple stuff... But Dell does right by their consumer offerings, yet fails to take any leadership position on the business side. The fact that Dell designed the right stuff and in the right way and have a great system of Hot Swap NVMe plug-ins gives me confidence that they will "right this ship" once they clear enough junk from inventory.

 

Consumers just need one or two M.2 sockets, where business and enterprise should actually be at the forefront as the driving force for 8-bay NVMe plug-ins and 10-bay and 24-bay etc with the enormous number of PCIe lanes that represents. That's a business thing, not a consumer thing. And Dell is there. They've designed it. They sell it. It's just that right now there is a bit of green slime oozing down the side of the industry here...

 

I have just gone through the configuration of way too many servers in the last 24 hours! And outside the ultra-high end it just doesn't matter which model you start with, low end in the line or high end - by the time they finish asking you to bend over and take it on the price gouging add-ons, there is a negligible difference between a 340 and a 640 for example. RAM and Storage are profit centers and they are shoving down your throat whatever they can source at low cost and convince you with "Bizz BS Herd Mentality" to accept as "Standard Business"

 

I can't wait to see how long this bizarre "group-think" lasts until everyone looks around and sheepishly starts ordering modern stuff and then a tipping point happens... Then they will say "That 24 bay NVMe Hot plug hardware I was laughing at as a consumer thing because my buddies were all ordering those marvelous 15,000 rpm metal beauties? Yeah forget that. That quarterly report analysis that took three days to run and always glitched in the end? Done in an hour. Got my weekends back!"

 

It's coming. You are NOT going to see these rickety ancient spinning gizmos much longer as primary storage... 5400 rpm 14 Terabyte plus is where platters belong...

 

I'm just sad that people I know here at Neowin will be disadvantaged by this situation until it changes.

 

[Mindovermaster Moderator]

I'm sorry, @DevTech, but you are talking about a big industry, not a little office run by 5 people.

 

@BudMan, can you help out here?