main page poll Have you upgraded to Windows 11 yet?

[jesseinsf]

On 21/01/2023 at 11:41, Steven P. said:

Sorry but when the changes make you less productive then it is not a user fault. Stop being an apologist for a megacorp that's out of touch and pushes bad ideas on end users that they ultimately are forced (at least in part) to backtrack on.

Steven, I'd expect professionalism out of you as you are a founder and an Administrator. If this is how you represent the company, then this lowers the bar in Neowin's reputation. Throwing judgements at me by calling me an apologist is the most unprofessional reaction I've heard this week. Look, in my original post I was calling the person out as there are so many people whining and complaining that something is hindering their productivity when in reality it is just an illusion that they created. People who don't create these illusions will always find ways to get around the problem while reporting their feedback through the correct channels. Plus, they would rather positively learn from an argument rather than negatively rebel against it.

[ad47uk]

I did install Windows 11 to have a peak, a few times to be honest, Windows 11 is not supported on this machine, but I had a peak. I put it on last week for a few days, but gone back to Windows 10.  At some point this machine will go belly up and I will have to put a different board and CPU in, but still not going to update to Windows 11, in the next month or so this machine will go into in semi retirement .

 

[jesseinsf]

On 22/01/2023 at 00:49, ad47uk said:

I did install Windows 11 to have a peak, a few times to be honest, Windows 11 is not supported on this machine, but I had a peak. I put it on last week for a few days, but gone back to Windows 10.  At some point this machine will go belly up and I will have to put a different board and CPU in, but still not going to update to Windows 11, in the next month or so this machine will go into in semi retirement .

 

I respect what you are saying here. It doesn't sound negative, and, in your case, it makes sense. I'm on the Insiders Beta channel and I'm seeing some cool changes and features. Anyway, hopefully you'll give it a shot again a year or so from now. 🙂

[Steven P. Administrators]

On 22/01/2023 at 09:47, jesseinsf said:

Steven, I'd expect professionalism out of you as you are a founder and an Administrator. If this is how you represent the company, then this lowers the bar in Neowin's reputation. Throwing judgements at me by calling me an apologist is the most unprofessional reaction I've heard this week. Look, in my original post I was calling the person out as there are so many people whining and complaining that something is hindering their productivity when in reality it is just an illusion that they created. People who don't create these illusions will always find ways to get around the problem while reporting their feedback through the correct channels. Plus, they would rather positively learn from an argument rather than negatively rebel against it.

So you're allowed to call people ignorant for not accepting change, but I am not allowed to point out the very real backtracking Microsoft has had to do because of dumb decisions they made with Windows 11?

Riiiiighht...   

Do not use my status as "founder and an Administrator" here to assume that I'm not allowed to have an opinion, it doesn't work like that.

[ad47uk]

On 22/01/2023 at 08:58, jesseinsf said:

I respect what you are saying here. It doesn't sound negative, and, in your case, it makes sense. I'm on the Insiders Beta channel and I'm seeing some cool changes and features. Anyway, hopefully you'll give it a shot again a year or so from now. 🙂

There are things I like about Windows 11, I kind of like the start menu, it is far better than the tiles on Windows 10, just a shame the search bar can not be got rid of and the gap when recommended is turned off. The other thing is the push to use Edge and Bing, which is what Ms is doing in Windows 10, but not as much. The forced MS account on new installs, I used Rufus to make a instalation and then updated this machine that way, so no MS account.

When I say this machine is going into semi retirement it is because I am looking at a Mac mini, I have been waiting for Apple to update the M1 mini, and now they have to a M2, I realise I will have to get used to the MAxc way of doing things, but even Apple don't force their Apple Id onto people, push yes, force now.  It is going to be strange, but the Mac mini uses a lot less power than my PC and yet will do most of what I need with ease. Not seen a x86 machine that can do that .

i will still keep the Windows machine for a few games I play. But I doubt very much if I will ever update to Windows 11 unless I hate the Mac and if I do then that will be an expensive mistake, so I will have to love the MAc

 

[Jaybonaut]

On 22/01/2023 at 03:35, Steven P. said:

So you're allowed to call people ignorant for not accepting change, but I am not allowed to point out the very real backtracking Microsoft has had to do because of dumb decisions they made with Windows 11?

Riiiiighht...   

Do not use my status as "founder and an Administrator" here to assume that I'm not allowed to have an opinion, it doesn't work like that.

On top of that, what you said wasn't unprofessional anyway.  I read it more than once just to double check if I missed something.  

[Taliseian]

My hardware is supported and I've tried it a few times, but in my personal opinion it also feels like a downgrade to me.

Aesthetics aside, there are some parts of the OS as well as in some cases performance issues (especially at first) that made it feel I was going back to the heady days of Vista.  The settings app for example feels clunky to me and just like the right-click menu it's like I'm having to do more to get the same results in 11 than I did in 10.  That doesn't sound like forward progress.

I follow the news here and on other sites and YT channels and install it when big updates comes out, but I find myself going back to 10 in a few days each time.  

It just feels like its still in beta to me.

Now YMMV and if it works for you, then congratz! But it seems I'm not alone and maybe if there is anyone left in Redmond they should listen....at least a little.

[adrynalyne]

On 22/01/2023 at 01:47, jesseinsf said:

Steven, I'd expect professionalism out of you as you are a founder and an Administrator. If this is how you represent the company, then this lowers the bar in Neowin's reputation. Throwing judgements at me by calling me an apologist is the most unprofessional reaction I've heard this week. Look, in my original post I was calling the person out as there are so many people whining and complaining that something is hindering their productivity when in reality it is just an illusion that they created. People who don't create these illusions will always find ways to get around the problem while reporting their feedback through the correct channels. Plus, they would rather positively learn from an argument rather than negatively rebel against it.

Seeing the ways you’ve attacked me and others for being critical of MS, I would say @Steven P. is spot on in what he said. Suck it up buttercup. 

[Dadwen]

On 21/01/2023 at 13:38, jesseinsf said:

It's not a downgrade, it is the lack of accepting change. Accepting change is psychologically an important part of a healthy mind. Just because you can't move the taskbar to all four corners of the screen or the lack of available choices in the context menus doesn't mean that it is a downgrade. The context menus are like that because the apps you install don't like the thought of change either. Looks like you are partially fighting your own kind.

Wouldn't it not make more sense for MS to let you chose what you want there, several things I never use and those I do not there,then left hoping that more than one 3rd party updates to fit to MS's changes (and that's only if those programs are still being developed) rather than MS make it possible to make whatever fit to the users needs show.  no one in their right mind would think all change is good and it's foolish to even think so anyone with any common sense knows not all changes are good and bad changes should not be accepted and in a tool that should be making my life\work\enjoyment easier, making it more effort is just rubbish design.  (not just the right click menu, hard to get to all program, harder to set one program as a default (both were easier in 10) just to name a few design flaws or arguably designs more pushed by marketing rather than good design.

 

[jesseinsf]

On 22/01/2023 at 01:35, Steven P. said:

So you're allowed to call people ignorant for not accepting change, but I am not allowed to point out the very real backtracking Microsoft has had to do because of dumb decisions they made with Windows 11?

Riiiiighht...   

Do not use my status as "founder and an Administrator" here to assume that I'm not allowed to have an opinion, it doesn't work like that.

Correct as you are a founder and an employee. People like you are supposed to give warnings, not feed the flame.

[cooky560 Veteran]

On 21/01/2023 at 21:22, adrynalyne said:

Link?

https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-accidentally-revealed-design-prototype-of-next-gen-windows-version/ here you go.

[Jaybonaut]

On 22/01/2023 at 14:11, jesseinsf said:

Correct as you are a founder and an employee. People like you are supposed to give warnings, not feed the flame.

Microsoft feeds the flame themselves.

[ad47uk]

On 22/01/2023 at 17:31, Dadwen said:

Wouldn't it not make more sense for MS to let you chose what you want there, several things I never use and those I do not there,then left hoping that more than one 3rd party updates to fit to MS's changes (and that's only if those programs are still being developed) rather than MS make it possible to make whatever fit to the users needs show.  no one in their right mind would think all change is good and it's foolish to even think so anyone with any common sense knows not all changes are good and bad changes should not be accepted and in a tool that should be making my life\work\enjoyment easier, making it more effort is just rubbish design.  (not just the right click menu, hard to get to all program, harder to set one program as a default (both were easier in 10) just to name a few design flaws or arguably designs more pushed by marketing rather than good design.

 

One of the problems i did have with Windows 11 was not being able to move the task bar, I prefer mine at the top of the screen, it is the way I have had things since Windows 95. Menus aare also a pin. 

But since i am looking at chaging platforms, I will have to get ujsed to a different OS that does things differently

 

 

 

[Dadwen]

On 23/01/2023 at 03:35, ad47uk said:

One of the problems i did have with Windows 11 was not being able to move the task bar, I prefer mine at the top of the screen, it is the way I have had things since Windows 95. Menus aare also a pin. 

But since i am looking at chaging platforms, I will have to get ujsed to a different OS that does things differently

 

 

 

For the longest time that was one of the most requested "feedback"  *till some odd rearrangement they did (call me shocked) but still in the top 5 and I still have a few people at work that refuse to do 11 with out the "combine taskbar button" options.

[nekrosoft13]

On 23/01/2023 at 02:35, ad47uk said:

One of the problems i did have with Windows 11 was not being able to move the task bar, I prefer mine at the top of the screen, it is the way I have had things since Windows 95. Menus aare also a pin. 

But since i am looking at chaging platforms, I will have to get ujsed to a different OS that does things differently

 

 

 

https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher

fixes everything

 

I also have my taskbar on top, with windows 11.

[IATW]

No, sticking with Windows 10 (LTSC 2021)

[lnmnky]

My PC doesn't pass the checks. But also, I don't like the taskbar. So I might upgrade whole PC once they have "Not combine Taskbar". 

[ad47uk]

On 23/01/2023 at 12:05, Dadwen said:

For the longest time that was one of the most requested "feedback"  *till some odd rearrangement they did (call me shocked) but still in the top 5 and I still have a few people at work that refuse to do 11 with out the "combine taskbar button" options.

Very strange that Ms ignored it.

 

[ad47uk]

On 23/01/2023 at 14:24, nekrosoft13 said:

https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher

fixes everything

 

I also have my taskbar on top, with windows 11.

I had the taskbar on the top as well, but the start menu acted strange when left in the centre, in that the icons on the taskbar would still be in the centre., but the start menu would only open on the left-hand side. 

On 23/01/2023 at 14:30, Kikitheking92007 said:

No, sticking with Windows 10 (LTSC 2021)

I did want to use that, but MS made it difficult, i did try it for a while, but I did not trust it.

 

[cooky560 Veteran]

On 23/01/2023 at 17:23, ad47uk said:

Very strange that Ms ignored it.

 

I think there's some weird impossibility with how the new taskbar is designed making it harder for them to do this feedback.

[PGHammer21A]

Notebook  and desktop (Home on the portable side and Pro for Workstations on the desktop due to the LACK of issues).  I recommended Microsoft 365 became Office 365 Personal - I stil recommend it = in fact more than ever because of whatit brings  to the rest of Windows.

[jesseinsf]

Windows has always been a work in progress. Unlike Apple's IOS and MacOS interface, which will look the same 100-years from now. Anyway, instead of whining and complaining, we should be giving feedback where the right people hear it. With Windows, we are either the average user, or we are beta testers (There is not an in-between).

[Dadwen]

On 23/01/2023 at 19:10, jesseinsf said:

Windows has always been a work in progress. Unlike Apple's IOS and MacOS interface, which will look the same 100-years from now. Anyway, instead of whining and complaining, we should be giving feedback where the right people hear it. With Windows, we are either the average user, or we are beta testers (There is not an in-between).

 

running insiders and also in the feedback hub, people giving feedback, example: please let us remove the recommended if it's empty.... MS month's later... ya we hear you it's now able to be made smaller.....

🤦‍♂️

The moving of the task bar for the longest time (almost since feedback for 11 had been up), was in the top 1-5 things asked for and most up-voted....

giving the right people feedback does not seem to be working too well......

[adrynalyne]

On 23/01/2023 at 17:10, jesseinsf said:

Windows has always been a work in progress. Unlike Apple's IOS and MacOS interface, which will look the same 100-years from now. Anyway, instead of whining and complaining, we should be giving feedback where the right people hear it. With Windows, we are either the average user, or we are beta testers (There is not an in-between).

You mean like the Feedback hub that is regularly ignored?

 

I will take something that doesn't change a lot in the looks department as long as the quality is there. MS has lost the plot on both. Inconsistent looks and they do not have quality. Oh and they use random people for their QA, that they then ignore. What could go wrong?

 

Leghumping MS is not going to accomplish anything; they deserve to hear and feel the criticism where possible.

 

[Steven P. Administrators]

The person that had the bright idea to use the scaled down interface from Windows 10X as Windows 11's "main feature" (dumbed down taskbar and Start) should be fired.

They literally stripped away all that was good with the taskbar and Start (but absolutely made sense for handheld devices) and then bigged it up as some great new thing. It's lazy and like others keep saying, completely out of touch with users. Why bother collecting all the telemetry they do if they are not going to use it properly?