Official WWDC 2004 discussion

[Argote]

oh like displays???

[Argote]

I wonder what games will look like on Apples 23' widescreen LCD?

unless you can hook it up to a PC then you'll have no games on that screen, that's for sure

lol

:cool:

[VGVL]

unless you can hook it up to a PC then you'll have no games on that screen, that's for sure

lol

:cool:

There are quite some games for Mac nowdays. :rolleyes:

The ones I can think of right now are Unreal Tournament 2004, America's Army, WarCraftIII, Quake III Arena, American McGee's Alice, Call of Duty, Medal of Honor, Halo and very soon Battlefield 1942. They play rather nicely on Mac. ;)

You might also want to check out www.apple.com/games.

Do at least a *bit* of research before posting false information or random comments.

[hoyablue]

oh like displays???

Your posts are slightly reminiscant of Area91's, is there a trend developing here neowin?

[macman87]

if the leaked read me file from macrumors was genuine, then it says tiger is only for macs with firewire. that removes alotta macs off the list which was capable of running panther.

the 30" look pretty cool but i think it lacks originality from apple. i have seen a lot of displays that looks like the new lineup. another thing i find annoying is the fact apple is doing so many things with the "Mac + PC" now. its kinda good... but is apple really fighting to survive? or maybe its just they little campaign to get apple hardware out in the open.

dashboard is kinda cool... i like the idea how one button can pull all those things together. its really useful. BUT. it looks.. so.. childish.. i would like a more pro look. well, apple does have 6-12 months to perfected it.

spotlight is kinda cool... dunno about the new look of the windows thou. look kinda like the current longhorn looks.

i personally think tiger might come march 24 or there abouts next year. :p

[Steven]

I wonder what games will look like on Apples 23' widescreen LCD?

Slow. :laugh:

Not even a Geforce 6800 Ultra can handle its highest resolution with playable frame rates.

[aristotle-dude]

Having seen the stream, I have the following to say:

Spotlight is really cool. (Launch bar is just a launcher).

RSS nice to see in Safari.

Smart folders I guess are like smart playlists for your filesystem.

I like the new Core Image and Video but it left me wondering what was left to the third-party developers to do now if I can quickly write a PS clone with these new frameworks? I guess they left the door open for third-party extensions to it. Having said that, MS has a lot to think about when it comes to their Avalon stuff in Longhorn now.

[Steven]

I dislike the price of the 20" Screen when there are many LCD Screens out on the market for PC that are way less that have better resolutions that use DVI.

::coughs:: Dell 2001FP ::coughs:: :whistle:

[the evn show]

Apple's 20" cinema display can be had on pricewatch for about $1100.

It's priced about middle of the pack as far as LCD displays go. The low-end price is about $920 for a 1600x1200 viewsonic piece the upper end is a $1300 NEC part and an $1800?! sony display with the same resolution.

You can debate whether you'd rather have a 4:3 or 16:9 display all day long. I'm partial to the wide aspect ratio for a number of reasons but there is something to be said for having an extra 150 pixels more height rather than 80 pixels more width, but the pricing of the kit is competitive.

Also, Apple displays work on a PC, and any DVI display will plug into a mac just fine so if built in USB and Firewire, the styling, and the widescreen aspect ratio don't interest you: buy something that does!

[Wickedkitten Veteran]

Launchbar is just another launching app like Quicksilver, BUT it is the one that resembles the new feature in Tiger.

Dashboard is a complete ripoff.

If you want to see another rip, press cmd+tab on your Panther box. Then head over here. Look familiar?

This also happened with Watson and Sherlock 2. Apple is no stranger to ripping off its third party developers. If I was a developer, I would be ****ed, but I would also feel somewhat proud that my idea was good enough to even get stolen by Apple.

Anyone remember reading this?

Konfabulator for Windows

DesktopX was first, is popular, and yet regularly ignored by the media

By Brad Wardell

Posted Saturday, January 10, 2004 on Right Wing Techie

Discussion: OS Customization

"Invented on the Mac"

If I keep ripping out my hair I'll be bald in no time. When it comes to getting press coverage in the tech industry, it's a lot easier to get it if you're a Mac program than a PC program. The Mac has always gotten far more attention than its numbers warrant. Often times, the media will actually make statements implying that a given program is unique to the Mac helping carry on the myth that the Mac is the land of innovation while Windows is the land of cheap knock offs.

This has always stung us at Stardock because we've come up with some really cool things over the years that are quite popular. And then the Mac will get something like it and suddenly something we've had for years will be treated as if it's the copy -- complete with Mac fanatics attacking us for copying their stuff.

We first ran into this with WindowFX where Mac users claimed we were ripping off the Mac despite WindowFX pre-dating MacOS X. WindowFX adds alpha blended shadows to windows and lets you morph windows when you minimize them. "Just another cheap Mac rip off, can't these PC users come up with anything???" Except we were first. But emails from outraged Mac users come in on a regular basis.

WindowFX was the first program to introduce alpha blended shadows under windows. Shadows under windows is an old idea so we never made a big deal about being the first to create realistic looking shadows. But many Mac users started retroactively giving Apple credit for something we did long before.

So when we read articles on MacOS X about how polished and slick and pretty it is as opposed to "ugly old Windows" we grit our teeth. Object Desktop is $49.95. I suspect the price difference between a high end PC and a high end Mac is greater than $49.95. And in many cases, we were the ones innovating.

DesktopX & Konfabulator

But the introduction of Konfabulator on the Mac has taken the cake when it comes to the media assuming that something on the Mac is unique. Konfabulator is a program that lets you put "widgets" on your desktop. Think of widgets as mini-programs. Widgets can do pretty much anything you want them to do and are powered by a scripting language (Javascript in Konfabulator's case).

Widgets can do things like display the current weather information, put a stock ticker on your desktop, control your MP3 player more conveniently, have a nice looking analog clock, display an appointment calendar, or just replace your desktop icons with nicer, larger versions. So widgets are things that occupy the same importance as desktop icons. They're useful but they're not critical. But they are far better than icons because they are interactive and live.

But moving beyond "icons" into widgets is a revolutionary concept. Icons are static, they don't do anything other than sit there. Widgets can do so much more while using hardly any memory.

Konfabulator is a great program. I use it on my Macintosh. I'm a registered user of it even. And Konfabulator would deserve a lot of credit for this innovation if it weren't for the inconvenient fact that DesktopX preceded it by THREE YEARS.

To be fair, DesktopX 1.0 wasn't as nice as Konfabulator is when it came to delivering widgets. But that has to do more with where hardware was back in 1999 than software technology. We had to deal with Windows 95 users running on Pentium 100s. In all our demos we made it clear which direction we were going with this. As hardware (and video cards) improved DesktopX would continuously become more and more interactive.

On DesktopX, widgets are called are broken up into widgets and objects. If you install DesktopX you never even have to load it up to use widgets. Widgets are .EXE's that just use DesktopX as the run-time. So even someone comparing the two will say "Yea, but DesktopX is way more complicated than Konfabulator." No, not if you are comparing the two directly. With Konfabulator, you must run Konfabulator first to run one of its widgets. With DesktopX, as long as DesktopX is installed somewhere you can run a widget as you would any other program -- complete with a task manager icon or system tray icon for it.

Where DesktopX seems more "complex" is that if you're running DesktopX you can then deal with objects and themes, both concepts that Konfabulator doesn't have. In Konfabulator, only techies can make widgets realistically. Making a Konfabulator widget involves opening up a text editor and writing Javascript. In DesktopX, objects are integrated into the DesktopX GUI. This makes it much easier to create objects. And as a result, you tend to have much more complex content made with DesktopX than you would Konfabulator because it's easier to deal with dozens of objects put together. These objects can then be exported as either an object pack (for other people to modify), as a theme (to replace ones desktop) or as a widget. So DesktopX may seem more complicated but only because it tried to make it easier for people to create content rather than be purely at the mercy of some small group of techies who have mastered the black art of widget making.

But we've been doing this -- for years. Complete with Javascript and VB Script support. And DesktopX isn't obscure. It has remained one of the top 10 desktop enhancements on Download.com. In fact, it's been on the Download.com top downloads chart for 160 consecutive weeks. That's every week for 3 years straight. At the time I write this, it has about 1.8 million downloads on Download.com.

And yet articles still regularly come out talking about how Konfabulator is unique and that nothing on Windows exists like it. DesktopX can do everything Konfabulator does and much much more. And some of the "much more" stuff is pretty significant -- even for widgets. DesktopX supports animation for instance. Fluid animation. So we've got objects (widgets) of things like fish gracefully swimming across the screen. And users can easily customize their objects. Color, size, shadows, etc. All from a GUI.

But DesktopX can do much more than just put widgets on your desktop, you can build your own secure, custom desktop, kiosk, etc.

A DesktopX theme in action. And like DesktopX objects, you can export these and share them. Like this one? Make it your desktop by clicking here.

My point isn't to try to argue that one is better than the other. I work for Stardock so any sort of opinion on that would be highly biased. My point is that when it's come to media coverage, Mac programs tend to get much easier coverage in relation to their actual user base. There are a lot more DesktopX users than Konfabulator users out there. It's not an obscure program. Every major skin site has a section for it and has for years. It has millions of downloads on C-net and a ton of downloads on the other file download sites as well. Heck, it's the program movie and TV studios have used to create futuristic computer screens. Don't people wonder how they make those?

In conclusion, if you're looking for "Konfabulator for Windows" the answer is, it's existed for years already. Konfabulator could be more accurately described as DesktopX for the Mac (or the closest thing to it). Though listening to the media, you would think it was (again) Mac users who came up with this concept of extending the desktop to have neat little gadgets on them.

[divinatum]

this may be offtopic or even not allowed, but does anyone know anyone who went to WWDC and would be willing to part with their copy of Tiger for a few bucks??

[em_te]

Apple's ichat multiuser mode is cool.

Edited June 29, 2004 by em_te

[session]

Apple's ichat multiuser mode is cool.

that is one of the best drawings i've ever seen :D

[Chad]

Launchbar is just another launching app like Quicksilver, BUT it is the one that resembles the new feature in Tiger.

Dashboard is a complete ripoff.

If you want to see another rip, press cmd+tab on your Panther box. Then head over here. Look familiar?

This also happened with Watson and Sherlock 2. Apple is no stranger to ripping off its third party developers. If I was a developer, I would be ****ed, but I would also feel somewhat proud that my idea was good enough to even get stolen by Apple.

Dashboard is a gui function that's been around for YEARS. Konfab AND Apple ripped off Stardock, and I'm sure Stardock got their idea from someone.

cmd+tab? Ok...Apple used what Proteron stole from Windows, which I'm sure stole it from someone else. Application switchers are nothing new

Watson ripped Sherlock. Sherlock already had the tools that Watson stole. Sherlock 2 was a logical progression in application upgrades.

Well if you were a developer, you should feel proud that you ripped your idea off from someone else then.

Your posts are slightly reminiscant of Area91's, is there a trend developing here neowin?

ENOUGH!!! He isn't area91!! You don't see anyone else running around saying "your posts remind me of nspeds" when they come across a blind Apple worshipper, do you. We just as well start doing that since it's right inline with your baseless accusations.

[macman87]

i don't how jobs can come out saying how things are so ground breaking as if apple invented it...

spotlight clearly is apples answer to winfs - i dunno if its as powerful or even more powerful thou. but as i see it, the screenshots even resemble the longhorn ones. heck, system preferences had the title bar with the toolbar - just like the the lh alphas.

core image seems to be nd addition to apples answer to avalon.

dashboard is another rip.

i am not saying its bad or anything... its just that i don't see how apples innovating when most things that a "innovative" in tiger is ripped of somewhere.

[hoyablue]

ENOUGH!!! He isn't area91!! You don't see anyone else running around saying "your posts remind me of nspeds" when they come across a blind Apple worshipper, do you. We just as well start doing that since it's right inline with your baseless accusations.

A blind Apple worshiper? Oh WAIT, you are the completely "unbiased" one! How could I forget?

The only one delivering "baseless" claims is the person who posts "There are no games for the Macintosh Platform". If you can't see that, then you are the one who can't live up to the "nonbias" you claim to advocate.

It seems like you're looking for my posts and criticizing it for nothing, if you're looking to pick a fight, look elsewhere.

[netlooks]

I know 'session' asked this awhile back. But does anyone have the wallpaper that is currently shown demonstrating the graphics of the new displays in this image (currently up on Apple.com Frontpage)

Thanks a lot.

Edited June 29, 2004 by netlooks

[malebolgia Veteran]

unless you can hook it up to a PC then you'll have no games on that screen, that's for sure

lol

:cool:

I plan on getting the 23-Inch Cinema HD Display, to use on my XP machine. :whistle:

[Detroit]

bah who cares, expose is the cool stuff :) ; cmd+tab, dashboard,etc, if the user enjoys it, then fine, it's good :) but paying for a monitor over 1000$ is overkillll, its not like everyone has 3300$ lying in their pockets... (extreme sarcasm)

long live Spotlight ;)

[radioboy]

I dislike the price of the 20" Screen when there are many LCD Screens out on the market for PC that are way less that have better resolutions that use DVI.

::coughs:: Dell 2001FP ::coughs:: :whistle:

the new displays use DVI

[aristotle-dude]

Enough already. Spotlight is not ripping off anyone. They took tech iTunes browse and expanded it. We already saw some of this tech in Panther Preview app. Apple got the metaday

Proteron has nothing to cry about. Cmd-TAB is something they copied from Windows.

Dashboard is quite different from Konfabulator. I'll give you that integration with Expose seems a lot like Konspose though but I wonder if they came up with that particular idea at the same time.

[Cambria]

I think everyone is taking this way to far.

Spotlight/Launchbar: Metadata in the Finder was one of the most requested features for Tiger. How else did you expect them to implement it? I suppose they could have just forgetten about it, but then there would have been complaining about the lack of metadata organization. If you can tell me that you could come up with a truly original way of doing it that has never, ever been done before, then you are a liar. Everything is going to resemble some other program that already exists, and people will start flaming because features were "ripped" Again, why don't you try to make something that works that is not like anything else out there.

Safari RSS/NetNewsWire: Let me get this straight: Safari is ripping off of NetNewsWire because they decided to include RSS? That is insane. I guess no one should make anything new because it will, of course, be a rip of someone else's work.

Dashboard/Konfabulator: Dashboard does look amazingly similar to Konfabulator, but remember, imitation is the highest form of flattery. If you want to look at everything in terms of being "ripped", then I guess Konfabulator "ripped" off of DesktopX. There is nothing new under the sun. Everything has been done before.

If you want to flame Apple for simply being inspired by some of the more innovative programs, then go ahead. Just remember how stupid you sound. I would like to see you make anything half as nice as OS X, or Launchbar, or QuickSilver, or Konfabulator, or whatever.

Yeah. If you didn't read all of that, I don't blame you.

[gawdflesh]

If you want to flame Apple for simply being inspired by some of the more innovative programs, then go ahead. Just remember how stupid you sound.

Might I kindly remind you that Apple recently had a series of banners implying that Microsoft will be ripping off Tiger when Longhorn comes out. That's the whole point that is ****ing people off. So, by your logic, Apple is sounding stupid, yes?

Dashboard does look amazingly similar to Konfabulator, but remember, imitation is the highest form of flattery.

Tell that to the Konfabulator developers. DesktopX is for Windows. Konfabulator is for OS X. What Apple did is make Konfabulator for OS X, again. Ever heard of M. Yamaguchi, the person who recieved a cease and desist order from Apple for making a Dock for *Windows*? Where is that "imitation is the highest form of flattery" crap then? Oh, wait, that's someone stealing an idea from Apple. Burn them alive!

Spin it however you want, Apples attitude in these areas is juvenile and cheap at best. OS X is a nice OS, yes. Apple hardware is pretty good as well. But if Microsoft was doing half the crap Apple is pulling right now, there would be a riot over it.

[Southern Patriot]

I wonder if Tiger is going to work on the PowerBook G3 Lombard & Pismo models?

Well, if the pdf file that was posted elsewhere the other day is correct, it will work on Pismos but not Lombards. It requires built in Firewire. It does work on G3's at least, so we aren't totally out of luck (yet). Then again, I'm sure that once it's out, a new version of XPostFacto will probably allow it to work on older models.

[Southern Patriot]

if the leaked read me file from macrumors was genuine, then it says tiger is only for macs with firewire. that removes alotta macs off the list which was capable of running panther.

Well, the only models I can think of that would be Panther-ready but not Tiger-ready would be early iBooks, early iMacs, and the Lombard PowerBook. That does leave out a lot of people, I'm sure, but I'm confidant that a new version of XPostFacto will get around this limitation.