camsoft Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 From what I have read and seen in terms of Microsoft PDC sessions and screenshots, alpha versions, mock up designs, longhorn is going to be massive. You have to remember that the Longhorn stuff that has been released to the public (Alpha Release) are just Main builds and are not the lab builds. We are only seeing the very tip of the iceberg. This is because the versions released are for developers, as the windows APIs are being completely redone, therefore programmers need to get on and learn the new APIs and give feedback to Microsoft. None of the official releases of longhorn alphas really show where Microsoft is going. Some of the Aero mock ups and lab 6 screenshots from PDC look amazing. And this product has still 2 years to go! I like MacOS and think it is a very good OS, slightly annoying at times, with it over user friendliness. Tiger looks great and the search looks very good, but It looks to me that Longhorn will be a lot better. We will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Patriot Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Apples new ad's just upset me, they're total bs and targetted at (atleast imo) noobies trying to say Microsoft is copying them once again, when infact it's the other way around this time. As I pointed out earlier, Apple has had much of this technology in the works for some time, and much of it will be available BEFORE Microsoft gets Longhorn anywhere near ready to ship. How does that equal Apple copying Microsoft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Patriot Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 well, if you look at the history of mac os x, then u would find, that apple was to ship os x in 99/00. theyt didn't. it was delayed 1 1/2 years. I don't think OS X was ever scheduled to ship in 1999. OS 8.1 shipped around the same time as Windows 98 (I bought it around May or June of 1998, just after it shipped). I'm not saying that OS X wasn't delayed some (it was), just not to the extent you describe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrThodt Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 As I pointed out earlier, Apple has had much of this technology in the works for some time, and much of it will be available BEFORE Microsoft gets Longhorn anywhere near ready to ship. How does that equal Apple copying Microsoft? Just because they release an inferior version before Microsoft, doesn't mean they aren't copying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureEdit Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Longhorn will never be good unless serious chances or replacements are made to the following: 1. The Registry 2. The Windows Installer 3. The way drivers are handled. MS needs to fix these things before adding more crap on top of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliott Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Just because they release an inferior version before Microsoft, doesn't mean they aren't copying. Haha, inferior. I like that. Just keep making yourself feel good. Microsoft has had to downgrade WinFS because some of their technology can't be implemented before the Longhorn release. Not to mention that WinFS still hasn't made its way in there. It just shows up in Task Manager as a resource hog as of right now. Aye, I agree with PureEdit. I say the worst invention ever made by Microsoft is the registry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theDose Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Also see...Why I've dropped MS Windows for the Apple Mac funny :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy_logic Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Someone has a link to a Longhorn demo video? I found a few but they are all focused on a specific industry like finance or healthcare. Is there a video demo about Longhorn like how Steve Jobs introduced Tiger? Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macman87 Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 I don't think OS X was ever scheduled to ship in 1999. OS 8.1 shipped around the same time as Windows 98 (I bought it around May or June of 1998, just after it shipped). I'm not saying that OS X wasn't delayed some (it was), just not to the extent you describe. watch the wwdc keynote from 98. jobs clearly says apple is confident to release it in q3 of 99. there was suppose to be no mac os 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redestium Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 watch the wwdc keynote from 98. jobs clearly says apple is confident to release it in q3 of 99. there was suppose to be no mac os 9. Do you have a link to it? :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoyablue Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 A rather massive misconception that is spreading around here is that "Tiger" is "copying Longhorn" because of the new journaling and searching capabilities that are being implemented into the Operating System. I implore you all that this technology has already been in use with iTunes and Steve Jobs himself has been boasting its implementation long before Tiger was even announced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 Do you have a link to it? :p No, but here's some worthy reading... Mac OS X was first mentioned in Apple's OS strategy announcement at the 1998 WWDC.Jobs said that O X would ship in the fall of 1999, and would inherit from both Mac OS and Rhapsody. Moreover, backwar compatibility would be maintained to ease customers into the transition Mac OS X did come out in 1999, as Mac OS X Server 1.0 (March 16, 1999), a developer preview of th desktop version, and as Darwin 0.1. Mac OS X beta was released on September 13, 2000 http://www.kernelthread.com/mac/osx/history.html Some great info on Mac OS in its early stages, here too - http://arstechnica.com/reviews/01q2/macos-.../macos-x-1.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Patriot Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 Do you have a link to it? :p Yeah, I'd love to see a link to that too, since at that time, all of Apple's talk (IIRC) was focused on either Copeland or Gershwin (can't remember exactly). Edit: Thanks Neyo for clearing that up. My memory from that timeframe was a little fuzzy, since I was going through a divorce at the time, so developments in the computer world were not exactly at the front of my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2x Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 Both OSs are great, but in all reality people, MS ownz the market. Check the numbers. Unless Mr.Jobs ever decides to release the MacOS to the i386 market, I really don't see a major shift in the industry. I mean look, Linux, a non-proprietary OS has already caught up with Apple in the small market share they are in and it's probably because they run on the same hardware as PCs and Macs. I personally have seen a lot of the previews for Longhorn and I think it looks pretty slick. Lots o'features and much better themes. :happy: LONGHORN :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oik Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 release the MacOS to the i386 market the 386? that would not help apple at all :p x86... and it would not help apple. they would have to start writing (or getting manufacturers to write) drivers for everything... nb's, sb's, pci cards, agp cards, optical drives, etc. it would take more time for osx to become a serious contender on the x86 list then it will take ibm to deliver the 975 to apple ;) and either way i look at it, bigger or better, i still see tiger winning... proportionally of course. go look at how many people still run win98. then go look at how many people still run classic, or even 10.2. most mac users upgrade, even though it costs $130, because the new features are worth it. what is a good feature in winxp? most people who stay with microsoft don't see the advantages, in all seriousness. sure, lots of crashes with the 9x core, but the people who have figured out the 'magic touch' don't want to struggle through upgrading and installing all their progs again and what not. better, i'll stick with tiger. is longhorn a big step for microsoft? yes. i think the winfx system is very nice, but i don't see it doing much to push windows. i don't really know how to put that last part, but i hope you get what i'm trying to say :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[moribundi] Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 the 386? that would not help apple at all tongue.gifx86... He was probably referring to FreeBSD and many *nix variants going off of the i386 naming convention for their architecture specifications. The x86 version of FreeBSD is referred to at the i386 branch. All things considered this isn't such a stretch considering the core of OS X. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2x Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 I've used Macs for about 6 years and windows for about 5 years now, but I understand it would be a major project for Apple to support/run on other hardware than their own. But wouldn't that pay off by gaining a ton of market share. I mean just look at how many windows users are mac envyious with their desktops: i.e. using docks, mac skins, icons, etc. on windows. It's not like a mass of people wouldn't switch, most people just can't afford to scrap their PC and just go out and buy a Mac. They tend to be a bit exspensive in case you didn't notice. In my personal opinion, the last few "upgrades" seemed more like $130 "updates". I think they should spread out releases. I sure don't like shelling out $130 every year for an update, ooops I mean upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2x Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 ,Jul 3 2004, 02:53] He was probably referring to FreeBSD and many *nix variants going off of the i386 naming convention for their architecture specifications. The x86 version of FreeBSD is referred to at the i386 branch. All things considered this isn't such a stretch considering the core of OS X. Thanks for clearing that up for me! That's exactly what I was getting at. ;) :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theyarecomingforyou Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 and either way i look at it, bigger or better, i still see tiger winning... proportionally of course. Apple are just bug fixing. They've made up for the poor launch of Mac OS X and the fact that the early pinstripe was butt ugly - they improved all the speed/responsiveness issues and resizing problems, the bugs in the interface, etc. Now they are just adding tidbits here and there whilst improving the GUI such that it now looks very nice and the graphical effects that look great. Longhorn is trying to make the big step to the next generation, but without the bad launch problems that OS X had. It is more important because there are far less people that are affected by Mac when they were effectively testing the water with OS X - the Windows OS is used by 100's of millions of people and is critical to many peoples work. The sheer number of Windows users has got to be Microsoft's top concern - a smooth transistion is essential, much like XP was. They can't risk an OS X style launch. :unsure: And, back to your point... I don't see Apple winning proportionally. It doesn't add anything that will make users want to switch. Longhorn will be very different and much more attractive... and it will get new users to computers. Apple tries to convert users - Microsoft tries to gain completely new users that don't have any form of computer, whilst maintaining old customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2x Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 I agree, Longhorn will rock! I switched to XP from OS X about 2 years ago, and I've very glad I did. I love Windows. Apple-ists are always talking down the security of windows, but I don't think they'd be saying jack if macs were the 90%+ marketshare, because I'm sure people would find plenty of holes in their OS if that were the case. Longhorn is awesome from what I've seen so far, much more impressive than anything I've seen on any other OS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macman87 Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 Yeah, I'd love to see a link to that too, since at that time, all of Apple's talk (IIRC) was focused on either Copeland or Gershwin (can't remember exactly).Edit: Thanks Neyo for clearing that up. My memory from that timeframe was a little fuzzy, since I was going through a divorce at the time, so developments in the computer world were not exactly at the front of my mind. WWDC 1998 : Apple's Software strategy & Mac OS X. http://www.happy-mac.com/macwrite/WWDC98keynote.mov very very poor quality - but very interesting history. also, talks about apples plans - eg the 4 products matrix enjoy :D oh and steve mentions about shipping os x in q3 of 1999 when they showed the roadmap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redestium Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 I agree, Longhorn will rock! I switched to XP from OS X about 2 years ago, and I've very glad I did. I love Windows. Apple-ists are always talking down the security of windows, but I don't think they'd be saying jack if macs were the 90%+ marketshare, because I'm sure people would find plenty of holes in their OS if that were the case. Longhorn is awesome from what I've seen so far, much more impressive than anything I've seen on any other OS. You don?t here about that sort of switch as much, interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oik Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 They've made up for the poor launch of Mac OS Xpoor launch? if you say so... seemed pretty successful to me, considering how few classic mac os users i see running around nowadays.the fact that the early pinstripe was butt ugly thanks for the opinion (Y) when will microsoft make up for the fact that luna is ugly? certainly not with royale or slate (or whatever that retarded gradient thing is called). a smooth transistion is essential, much like XP was.you mean that same transition where there's still 20% of the populace using win98 and 1% (:laugh:) using win95? reading google's zeitgeist info.the Windows OS ... is critical to many peoples work not really. i can't think of more than maybe 5 things a pro would need windows for. cad, anyone? It doesn't add anything that will make users want to switchi guess for as important as coreimage and video will be, maybe not to you, but let's remember that so far, apple has only shown 1/15th of the features that will be in tiger. and since it was demo'ed at a developer's conference, they were geared towards developers.[longhorn] will get new users to computers. longhorn will not have any part in what a person uses. the oem's will. and since they keep up with microsoft, the oem will be get the users to longhorn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burning_jonny Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 Tiger vs Longhorn...if the 2 were released at the same time it probably would be a bigger deal. As for me, it means I have to pay $$$ to someone. I think what Microsoft should worry about is the day Apple decides to sell OS X for x86. After all, Apple is also in the software business and a secure OS alternative that has similar features, will run on your computer, and is a cheaper upgrade than Longhorn is something a lot of people would buy. Now don't ask how people won't buy their own hardware... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
session Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 Tiger vs Longhorn...if the 2 were released at the same time it probably would be a bigger deal. As for me, it means I have to pay $$$ to someone.I think what Microsoft should worry about is the day Apple decides to sell OS X for x86. After all, Apple is also in the software business and a secure OS alternative that has similar features, will run on your computer, and is a cheaper upgrade than Longhorn is something a lot of people would buy. Now don't ask how people won't buy their own hardware... I don't think Microsoft having to worry about that anytime soon :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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