Zip Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 A security update conveniently tied in with a massive monopolistic example of facist coporate control. since when have microsoft been facists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gauge Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 Fascism: "a system characterized by rigid one-party dictatorship, forcible suppression of the opposition (unions, other, especially leftist, parties, minority groups, etc), the retention of private ownership of the means of production under centralized control, belligerent nationalism and racism" Sounds like Microsoft to me. Especially when you look at the DoJ's anti-trust case falling to pieces the moment George W. Bush got elected. Read this: http://thomasmc.com/0420rf.htm Microsoft represents a significant portion of the American economy. Do you think it's any accident that MS, having been proven guilty of monopolisation, have had next to no significant penalties levied against them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsden Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 Country envy... I guess that's what happens when you live on a tiny p***-ant island dreaming of greatness that will never come... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdCViRus Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 I'm running 8 machines (4 desktops and 4 laptops) and after reading all of the nightmares about SP2, I've decided to put off upgrading to SP2 indefinately! :huh:I did try SP2 RTM on one of my less important platforms and I must say the only difference I noticed was it slowed it down and Nero wouldn't run... If I'm running Enterprise level A-V and firewall, why would I even want to put what appears to be a bad beta SP in systems that have been running flawlessly for over 2 years??? :wacko: I understand a lot of people around here suffer from "upgrade lust" syndrome, but can someone tell me just one benefit of SP2??? you are not doing anyone a favour by upgrading i, for one, would not bother to convince you to upgrade if you dont want to upgrade, don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatoichi Posted August 19, 2004 Author Share Posted August 19, 2004 Do the right thing, always patch up your systems... Just do it... :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryonhowley Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 You're dam tootin' I'm scared...scared of going back to crash & burn like it was before SP1. :rolleyes:Just because Bill Gates & Co. release something don't mean I'm gonna run out and buy it, especially if it means hours and hours of work...time is $$$ for me. When M$ released SP1a, I stuck with SP1 cause I wanted to keep Java Virtual Machine in SP1, so much for being up-to-date...LOL! :rofl: BTW, I started this thread to see if I was really missing out on anything with SP2...so far, ZILCH!!! Thats NADA for all you hispanic speakin folks out there!!! :alien: Sounds like you should just format install any version of Linux and be done. You have made it quiet clear you do not like Mircosoft or it's products. So stop using them. And it is MS not M$. With the four XP box's at and the 15 or so I have set SP2 on not one of them has any problems at all. I read the same bull when SP1 came out. Nero has no problems at all if you download the update for it from Ahead. That is the only program that I had to even update after SP2. One program Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdcase Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 This is heretical, but unless its security related or you would gain some function that you need then its best not to mess with your OS if it works and does what you need it to. SP2 has many security enhancements, but if you have your SP1 system configured right, aren't using IE, have an anti-virus program installed, and are behind a NAT firewall you're just as well off IMHO. That said, I upgraded to SP2 using the .EXE update file and it hosed both of my workstations (no boot...blue screenage...un-repairable) I slipstreamed SP2 into my XP professional CD, formatted the disks, and installed the OS. Both workstations are working great now. Can't say that I notice anything overwhelmingly different about my system other than the feeling that I have "the latest and greatest" with all the security patches to date. Since I run behind a NAT firewall I personally would be fine with SP1(a) + patches vs. SP2. I still have a laptop that is non-SP2 - will probably stay like that until it dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatoichi Posted August 19, 2004 Author Share Posted August 19, 2004 (edited) Sounds like you should just format install any version of Linux and be done. You have made it quiet clear you do not like Mircosoft or it's products. So stop using them. And it is MS not M$. With the four XP box's at and the 15 or so I have set SP2 on not one of them has any problems at all. I read the same bull when SP1 came out. Nero has no problems at all if you download the update for it from Ahead. That is the only program that I had to even update after SP2. One program I'm glad you have only one program that is affected by SP2, but according to this >> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?...ct=windowsxpsp2 << I have at least 7 programs that have issues with SP2 (Outpost Firewall Pro, Pinnacle Studio 9, Style XP, AutoCAD 2004, Symantec Corporate AntiVirus 9.0, DisKeeper 8 & Nero, which all seem to have issues with SP2). I never said I don't like M$ products, though I find their approach at times quite monopolistic and arrogant. IMHO, they should have given rebates to every person that purchased WinME to apply towards WinXP, but hey that's just me. ;) Moreover, I don't like being tied at the hip to M$ just because I bought their product(s), I'd like the option to customize my O/S for speed without their weak attempts at dictating what & how I install/use additional software. Other than their O/S and Office Suites, I have little to no use for their other products. And yes, I call Bill Gates & Co. "M$" due to their capitalistic, totalitarian attitude toward the PC world in general. :p P.S. Did I mention I got WinXP Corp. from a Techie Friend cause I couldn't be bothered with M$'s total BIG BROTHA intrusion with "XP Activation"...what a load of horse puckey. If you buy something, it shouldn't require being leashed to the manufacturer - and YES, I won't buy another M$ O/S if I have to "activate it" everytime M$ thinks I should. The WinXP Home & Pro CDs I've bought have been coasters since I got my hands on WinXP Corp. Hopefully soon there will be a REAL alternative to M$'s BIG BROTHA stranglehold on PC O/S systems...:angry: Edited August 19, 2004 by Zatoichi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsden Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 His position makes perfect sense in the context of business evolution... You see, he sits there all smug in his thinking that he doesn't need this latest load of crap disguised as a service pack from Redmond. He thinks he is protected by his Enterprise class AV solution... He does not see, nor realize, that as we speak, some script kiddy is slamming down Jolt colas in order to stay awake while he pounds his dirty keyboard, cooking up some new bug to unleash on the world, specifically targeting computers who have not made the jump to SP2. With this new vector, his nasty code just slips right past his Enterprise level AV because there is no definition file that recognizes this new treat. In the blink of an eye, his machines proudly running SP1, succumb to this new attack and are rendered useless... His competitors on the other hand, took precautions and are not affected by this new virus... They choose to load SP2 and they eat his lunch! And thus, another company falls victim to business evolution... survival of the fittest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatoichi Posted August 19, 2004 Author Share Posted August 19, 2004 (edited) His position makes perfect sense in the context of business evolution...You see, he sits there all smug in his thinking that he doesn't need this latest load of crap disguised as a service pack from Redmond. He thinks he is protected by his Enterprise class AV solution... He does not see, nor realize, that as we speak, some script kiddy is slamming down Jolt colas in order to stay awake while he pounds his dirty keyboard, cooking up some new bug to unleash on the world, specifically targeting computers who have not made the jump to SP2. With this new vector, his nasty code just slips right past his Enterprise level AV because there is no definition file that recognizes this new treat. In the blink of an eye, his machines proudly running SP1, succumb to this new attack and are rendered useless... His competitors on the other hand, took precautions and are not affected by this new virus... They choose to load SP2 and they eat his lunch! And thus, another company falls victim to business evolution... survival of the fittest… OK, how is this snot-nosed master of the script kitties gonna get his malevolent creation past my routers, Outpost Pro, McAfee or Symantec Enterprise A-V, when I don't open unsolicited email attachments and run Opera (with JavaScript Off) or FireFox (for JavaScript functions) instead of that POS IE?? LOL :rofl: Because in the 2 plus years I've been running in this or a similar manner, I haven't had ONE incident regarding malicious code...not one and I interact with 20-200 clients on average everyday! BTW, I have ALL unnecessary services OFF, including remote registry, auto updates, error notices, system restore, all MSN crap, etc... Nope, I don't think SickPack 2 is gonna do a dam thing for little ol' me, except eat up dozens of hours figuring out how to make it run as stable with ALL my software as I am now! :whistle: Edited August 19, 2004 by Zatoichi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsden Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 It's your funeral dude... party on... Any software that you install to protect yourself can easily be uninstalled by a clever hacker... Awh, but you think you are safe... your first mistake... with a bit of spoofing and some clever IP splicing... I could own your network... You have no idea where I have worked... If you want secure data Don't put it on a computer... If you put it on a computer, Don't plug it in... If you plug it in, Don't turn it on... If you turn it on, All bets are off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsden Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 OK, how is this snot-nosed master of the script kitties gonna get his malevolent creation past my routers, Outpost Pro, McAfee or Symantec Enterprise A-V, when I don't open unsolicited email attachments and run Opera (with JavaScript Off) or FireFox (for JavaScript functions) instead of that POS IE?? LOL I guess if you don't follow directions of the software you are using to protect yourself... pretty easily... Outpost should not be run with any other firewall software; running Outpost with other firewall products can result in system instability (i.e., crashes) and can cause Outpost to operate in an unsecure mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NetRyder Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 The funny thing is how you assume your software won't work even before trying it on a test machine (you have 8 don't you? Why not use one of them?). I use many of the apps listed on the MS page, and none of them has yet to cause a problem after installing SP2. The only glitch I noticed was the fact that Security Center wouldn't recognize Symantec Corp 9.0. Is this a problem? No. Why? Because the AV continues to monitor your system in the background, just as it did before. The only thing you don't see is a pretty green light in Security Center. Moreover, Symantec released a patch a day or two later, and everything was fixed. See, was it really that hard? On the contrary, my notebook, like several others have stated, is more responsive than it used to be. I can tell you it's not a placebo effect because I did an upgrade install rather than a format and reinstall, and I can clearly feel applications launching faster than they used to. I also find some of the new features to be quite useful - the new wireless connections settings being just one of them. In any case, it doesn't matter what I or anyone else says. It's clear that you've made up your mind not to install SP2, and I'm sure no amount of advise can penetrate thick skin. I won't waste any more of my breath, and I suggest that the rest of you do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrispCreations Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 Looking at your list of 7 applications with problems Outpost Firewall Pro - Works according to Agnitum > http://www.agnitum.com/news/20040816.html Style XP - Update to latest version - Fixed Symantec Corporate AntiVirus 9.0 - Install patch - Fixed Nero - Update to latest version - Fixed DisKeeper 8 (which isn't even on the list) - If you're running it locally, no problems, if it's over a network look here http://www.executive.com/products/tipsntricks.asp (even then I should add that the problem only occurs with later versions (5+) of Zone Alarm, which you don't appear to have anyway Pinnacle Studio 9 - Turn off DEP for it - Fixed - Confirmed on their forum We are aware of a problem with Windows XP SP2, running on AMD 64 processors.Studio crashes when DEP (data execution protection) is turned on. This is not that serious of an issue, as DEP is off with the default XP SP2 installation. For an end user to encounter this problem they would have to intentionally enable DEP for all apps or specifically for Studio. Furthermore, XP asks the user to disables DEP for apps that repeatedly fail. This source of this problem is component that Pianncle licenses from another developer. A fix is palnned in a future update Signature: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Iampietro Senior Product Manager Pinnacle Systems Inc. AutoCAD 2004 (again not on the list) - The only program I can't confirm or deny a problem with but Autodesk can (from their discussion group)We have been running and testing on XP SP2 for a few months now and have not seen any AutoCAD specific issues. SP2 does lock every thing down much tighter including turning on the built in Fire Wall by default. So you could see some extra warnings around that area, but nothing that is not expected. We just got the final version of the SP and need to do one last round of testing on it and then we will release an official statement on the WEB site. Hope this helps. Bud Schroeder AutoCAD Test Development Autodesk Inc. All in all, mountains out of molehills. As others have said, if you don't want to install it don't install it, but please stop basing your objections on unfounded incompatibility issues. (It took me 5 minutes to find all that out, did you even bother to look or do you believe everything you read without question?) but hey, if you don't want to risk it, who cares, it's no skin off mine ;) seems a waste to spend all that money on an OS and not take advantage of the free upgrades though :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarStorm Posted August 20, 2004 Share Posted August 20, 2004 update to SP2 for the reasons that have been said a million times! U have 8 pcs?- why not at least test Sp2 on one and them and see how u get on then report back here and we will accept ur apologies!! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riahc3 Posted August 20, 2004 Share Posted August 20, 2004 i dont understand why some of you keep arguing with the thread starter. His clearly hard headed and well when someone does mess around with his computer or sends a virus into his computer i wanna see how he'll react. IMO if i saw a thread by the thread starter, in a few days, crying about i cant open my PC it says access denied or whatever and i was a mod i would lock the thread with "Told Ya So. Learn next time." Ahhh my mod dreams i have so much of them......... :ninja: :devil: :shifty: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted August 20, 2004 Share Posted August 20, 2004 I'm running 8 machines (4 desktops and 4 laptops) and after reading all of the nightmares about SP2, I've decided to put off upgrading to SP2 indefinately! :huh: I think I've upgraded 14 machines so far (I do computer repair for a living) and have had 0 problems. Count 'em. 0. Maybe... you just don't know what you're doing? :yes: You should have no problems with SP2 if you're running decently up-to-date software. You mentioned Nero... there's a patch ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatoichi Posted August 20, 2004 Author Share Posted August 20, 2004 I think I've upgraded 14 machines so far (I do computer repair for a living) and have had 0 problems. Count 'em. 0. Maybe... you just don't know what you're doing? :yes: You should have no problems with SP2 if you're running decently up-to-date software. You mentioned Nero... there's a patch ;) When it comes to M$ products, I'm certainly no n00b...started out on DOS platforms back in 1986 running ACAD to whip-out 2-D mechanical drawings. BTW, I did install SP2 on a non-essential platform & IMHO it was bogged down. This weekend I'll do a clean install after slipstreaming SP2 RTM into my SP1 CD, but from what I've seen and heard so far SP2 seems like a real loser. I don't know why so many people wanna kiss Bill's rear-end, but hey most sheeple need someone to follow. LOL :rofl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad.C Posted August 20, 2004 Share Posted August 20, 2004 What was the whole point to this thread,.."to see if you were missing anything". We told you some benefits and you rejected them outright. Fair enough but it feels like even before you posted this thread you already made up your mind. Has it come to this point where we need others to make our decisions for us ? When you stated that SP2 was not for your because of incompatibilities, that should have been the end of the dicussion...! ForeSeeAble future : New Thread -->> "I don't know if I should wake up at 7 or 8 a.m. Tell me why I should wake up at all" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatoichi Posted August 20, 2004 Author Share Posted August 20, 2004 What was the whole point to this thread,.."to see if you were missing anything".We told you some benefits and you rejected them outright. Fair enough but it feels like even before you posted this thread you already made up your mind. Has it come to this point where we need others to make our decisions for us ? When you stated that SP2 was not for your because of incompatibilities, that should have been the end of the dicussion...! ForeSeeAble future : New Thread -->> "I don't know if I should wake up at 7 or 8 a.m. Tell me why I should wake up at all" Actually, I was looking for a GOOD reason to deal with all the headaches I'm sure to endure because M$ released another POS SickPack...I'm not looking forward to administering it across my systems. At this point, it's looking like SP2 should still be in beta due to the numerous problems users are having, so given the weak arguments given on this thread I'll wait until the plethora of hot patches are released to fix all of the problems SP2 has created. BTW, thanks for playing! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y_notm Posted August 20, 2004 Share Posted August 20, 2004 that Microsoft list does not say those programs have incompatibilities with SP2, it says they could possibly behave differently using the default settings than they did in pre-SP2. for the most part, those issues are with firewall behavior. Install SP2 to check the apps that are on that list, and if they work then you're good. If not, wait perhaps another week for most of the applications to be updated to work out any problems caused by SP2. this isn't rocket science-level stuff here. You want to be updated to SP2, if just for the reason to be able to apply future patches, which will require SP2 to be installed. Also, don't think SP3 or longhorn are going to fix these "incompatibilities," if anything, they'll probably cause more with legacy apps for the sake of security and/or progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrispCreations Posted August 20, 2004 Share Posted August 20, 2004 Actually, I was looking for a GOOD reason to deal with all the headaches I'm sure to endure because M$ released another POS SickPack...I'm not looking forward to administering it across my systems. How can you be so sure you will have problems? I posted above regarding your 'problem' applications, all of which either have a fix, or didn't have a problem in the first place. I think it's a bit naive of you to assume that you will have problems without even bothering to initiate some sort of testing environment. If you were as Tech-savvy as you claim to be, you would already have run through a program of testing, long before SP2 went final to determine what, if any problems you may encounter. The fact you haven't done that says a lot about your attitude towards patch management. This thread has now become pointless, the fact remains SP2 is here to stay. As far as I can see the updates & patches are already avialable for your systems to continue running, (based on the programs you were concerned about anyway) btw, I know plenty of people who've been using computers since DOS days. This is no qualification for being able to carry out an upgrade. A user is just that, they use the applications installed on a system, that doesn't make tham an IT expert, no matter how long they've been doing it. I think you fall into the same category as those people. Maybe you should consider getting in an IT expert to carry out the upgrade for you, you obviously are concerned you don't have the ability to do it yourself. I'm sure there are plenty of Neowinians here who would be happy to help you out....just a thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatoichi Posted August 20, 2004 Author Share Posted August 20, 2004 How can you be so sure you will have problems? I posted above regarding your 'problem' applications, all of which either have a fix, or didn't have a problem in the first place. I think it's a bit naive of you to assume that you will have problems without even bothering to initiate some sort of testing environment. If you were as Tech-savvy as you claim to be, you would already have run through a program of testing, long before SP2 went final to determine what, if any problems you may encounter. The fact you haven't done that says a lot about your attitude towards patch management. This thread has now become pointless, the fact remains SP2 is here to stay. As far as I can see the updates & patches are already avialable for your systems to continue running, (based on the programs you were concerned about anyway)btw, I know plenty of people who've been using computers since DOS days. This is no qualification for being able to carry out an upgrade. A user is just that, they use the applications installed on a system, that doesn't make tham an IT expert, no matter how long they've been doing it. I think you fall into the same category as those people. Maybe you should consider getting in an IT expert to carry out the upgrade for you, you obviously are concerned you don't have the ability to do it yourself. I'm sure there are plenty of Neowinians here who would be happy to help you out....just a thought... You assume a lot, don't you... If you'd bother to have actually read what I have written, you'd see I actually did SP2 a go on a non-essential system...with lackluster results. Secondly, if you knew anything about what it was like to run an ACAD system on a network in the 1980s, you would know that was hardly "user" level stuff. Moreover, I have a whole battery of reg hacks I have compiled and used to make WinXP a truly fun experience. ;) Is that user level stuff? If I wasn't so bored with you, I'd post the complete install list I've created for WinXP, but heh you'd probably learn something so screw that...:ninja: Of course, I'm sure a lot of variables have changed with SP2, so I'll have look at the list of new crapola M$ services I'm gonna have to disable to have a truly stable, fast & responsive platform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrispCreations Posted August 20, 2004 Share Posted August 20, 2004 Touched a nerve, did I? :laugh: Have to admit, you got me on the networked Acad. Not something the local health authority I was working for at the time had much use for. On the other hand Unix boxes, a DEC Vax, PC's, a plethora of Wyse50's, Novell, hell, even a McDonnell Douglas Sequoia, all connected to the WAN were, to quite an extent, a responsibility of mine, so don't even bother to get me started on networking a few boxes for one application mate. Look at the facts, none of the programs you listed have issues with SP2 that can't easily be resolved. You tried it on one system, nero wouldn't run (as mentioned - fixed) & it slowed it down, (a defrag usually fixes that). Hardly major problems there, are there, and that's without any optimization, which, given that you are such a whiz with reg hacks shouldn't present any problem to you. I fail to see your argument, either you are conducting this pointless debate just to get up everyones nose (which btw, I think you succeded in) or you aren't the technoligical genius that you seemingly claim to be. Maybe you've built yourself up as some kind of guru to the people who use the other 7 systems that you have (I take it you don't use all of them on your own) and you don't want to look a fool should anything go wrong that you can't put right? Whatever the case, as I said earlier, if you don't want it, don't install, if you can't do it, get someone who can....simple! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toadeater Posted August 20, 2004 Share Posted August 20, 2004 When it comes to M$ products, I'm certainly no n00b...started out on DOS platforms back in 1986 running ACAD to whip-out 2-D mechanical drawings.I don't know why so many people wanna kiss Bill's rear-end, but hey most sheeple need someone to follow. LOL :rofl: I have wondered about that also. Back in 1986 I was using an Amiga at home and a PC at work. I wondered why anyone would submit themselves to DOS and actually like it. But that is also your answer. Most people using PCs right now have absolutely no idea whatsoever what it used to be like before M$ hijacked the home computer industry. They honestly think M$ invented this crap, rather than the truth which is that they ripped off alot of people and made a shoddy imitation of superior products. M$ has ruined many lives, put many people out of business through their predatory, monopolistic practices. Yet they still can't get Windows to work properly. Like I've said before, Windows is Humpty Dumpty, it's never going to work, it just gets WORSE. How many millions of lines of broken code will it take before M$ implodes? This 2nd generation that grew up on Windows is going to learn eventually how pathetic M$ is, it's already happening as we speak, it's only a matter of time. I just wish it would happen sooner than later. Btw, two new post-SP2 vulnerabilities have already been found, enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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