omniphile Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 To reiterate, there are none so blind as those who will not see. Quod erat demonstrandum. I also note zit's comment (and I quote) "Moreover, I have a whole battery of reg hacks..." Rest assured I am in absolute awe of the abilities and powers of script-kiddies like you. Those that can, do. And do it quietly. Those than can't try to hide the fact by boasting of fantasised abilities in public fora. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatoichi Posted August 21, 2004 Author Share Posted August 21, 2004 To reiterate, there are none so blind as those who will not see.Quod erat demonstrandum. I also note zit's comment (and I quote) "Moreover, I have a whole battery of reg hacks..." Rest assured I am in absolute awe of the abilities and powers of script-kiddies like you. Those that can, do. And do it quietly. Those than can't try to hide the fact by boasting of fantasised abilities in public fora. LOL...I don't think modding my Windows registry qualifies in the realm of script-kiddies, but hey what ever floats your boat Mr. Phile. BTW, I am quite honored that you signed up just to attack me on this thread...WOW 2 whole posts, maybe this one will bring you back for your third? :sleep: And yes, those of us who do know how to write code with or without a hex editor don't often talk about our abilities...probably because most of the people that do it are outlaws! :rofl: Me, I made a conscience decision over ten years ago not to pursue that course and only work within the confines of my own system. Please come back now, ya hear! :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatoichi Posted August 21, 2004 Author Share Posted August 21, 2004 I have wondered about that also. Back in 1986 I was using an Amiga at home and a PC at work. I wondered why anyone would submit themselves to DOS and actually like it.But that is also your answer. Most people using PCs right now have absolutely no idea whatsoever what it used to be like before M$ hijacked the home computer industry. They honestly think M$ invented this crap, rather than the truth which is that they ripped off alot of people and made a shoddy imitation of superior products. M$ has ruined many lives, put many people out of business through their predatory, monopolistic practices. Yet they still can't get Windows to work properly. Like I've said before, Windows is Humpty Dumpty, it's never going to work, it just gets WORSE. How many millions of lines of broken code will it take before M$ implodes? This 2nd generation that grew up on Windows is going to learn eventually how pathetic M$ is, it's already happening as we speak, it's only a matter of time. I just wish it would happen sooner than later. Btw, two new post-SP2 vulnerabilities have already been found, enjoy. Most sheeple out there just follow the leader and couldn't think for themselves if their life depended on it... That's why the world is the screwed up mess it is, why political virii like the Democratic/Republican B$ continues to exist and M$ continues to put out crappy code and people buy it. Unfortunately for free thinkers like us, were somewhat stuck in the same cesspool with the sheeple, due to lack of REAL options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[jo3y] Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 i have yet to upgrade or really care to. my pc is running well. why fix something that ain't broke? Im in the same boat with him. But I will upgrade later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grindlestone Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 Fascism:"a system characterized by rigid one-party dictatorship, forcible suppression of the opposition (unions, other, especially leftist, parties, minority groups, etc), the retention of private ownership of the means of production under centralized control, belligerent nationalism and racism" Sounds like Microsoft to me. Especially when you look at the DoJ's anti-trust case falling to pieces the moment George W. Bush got elected. Read this: http://thomasmc.com/0420rf.htm Microsoft represents a significant portion of the American economy. Do you think it's any accident that MS, having been proven guilty of monopolisation, have had next to no significant penalties levied against them? Tell it like is comrade!! :laugh: > > > > So MS are serious about security. Great! I guess Bill will soon make the benefits of SP2 available for Windows 2000 users. ...Bill?... Bill? Oh, I see. My mistake. It was just a ploy to get people to upgrade after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y_notm Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 Tell it like is comrade!! :laugh: > > > > So MS are serious about security. Great! I guess Bill will soon make the benefits of SP2 available for Windows 2000 users. ...Bill?... Bill? Oh, I see. My mistake. It was just a ploy to get people to upgrade after all. It's called Service Pack 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NetRyder Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 Unfortunately for free thinkers like us, were somewhat stuck in the same cesspool with the sheeple, due to lack of REAL options. Honestly, you seem more like an obsessive non-conformist who spitefully tries to go against all norms to prove that you're somehow "different," rather than being a free-thinker. You may think you're really important by starting a whole thread for people to convince you to install SP2. Hate to break it to you, but you're not. Nobody here could care less if you install it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyoung1616 Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 (edited) I've installed sp2 on my own computers and several at work. Not had any problems but with 1or 2 and I feel they were on the ragged side to start with. As for as advising anyone to update, I don't do that. I figure if you can't run your own machine and keep it up and running to it's best, then don't go around asking if you should do something. You take it into your own hands and just do it or don't. Shouldn't have to bother other people with what you should or shouldn't do. I stopped asking what to do when I felt momma and daddy. Cody Edited August 21, 2004 by cyoung1616 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circaflex Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 SP2 caused a great deal of lockups and problems with me on a fresh slipstreamed install so i went back to sp1 ill give sp2 about 3/4 months and ill use it then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grindlestone Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 It's called Service Pack 5. Err.. no. There won't be a big security blitz for W2K Here's a quote from an interview with XXXX from Paul Thurrott's site http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/muglia_winserver.asp >>>>>>>>>>> Paul: The other question is about Windows 2000. Are there any Windows 2000 update releases planned? One of the things I get asked about a lot is whether Windows 2003 Service Pack 5 (SP5) will include any of the "Springboard" security updates from XP SP2 and Windows Server 2003 SP1. BM: We're taking the core fixes that we find we need to bring back to Windows 2000 and putting them back there. But no, there's nothing like Springboard at this point for Windows 2000. We won't do the very broad pass that we did for XP. Paul: Can you clarify a bit what that will be? Are you talking about the low-level improvements in XP SP2? Or just hot-fixes and so forth? BM: Just those things that we feel are the really significant security vulnerabilities we've identified. Those are the only things that we're taking. You have to understand that with Springboard, we made hundreds and hundreds of changes to the operating system. We've done a lot of clean-up-type work that no one's really done any exploits on [in XP SP2], and yet we want to make sure there's no chance of that happening, so we're doing a ton of that sort of work. That's not all going back to Windows 2000. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sMiK Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 I don't suggest updating to SP2. It slows the system down. I've formatted my HDD and setup WINXP and then SP2, but it worked like i had pentium 133 :) And that security center is the stupidest thing they could ever have created... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypoxiaicon Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 I don't suggest updating to SP2. It slows the system down. I've formatted my HDD and setup WINXP and then SP2, but it worked like i had pentium 133 :) And that security center is the stupidest thing they could ever have created... Start > Run > Services.msc Scroll down to 'Security Centre' Right Click > Properties > Start-up Type > Change it to disabled and stop it. End off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aoouch Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 Why not? It's free~~~~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 Hey, SP1 is awesome if you know how to tweak it!IMHO, my machine is already in great shape...why would I want make my O/S incompatible with half of the programs developed pre-SP2?? If ur not set on upgrading then why make this thread, sound slike to me that no matter what we tell you ur still not gonna upgrade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrispCreations Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 Tell it like is comrade!! :laugh: > > > > So MS are serious about security. Great! I guess Bill will soon make the benefits of SP2 available for Windows 2000 users. ...Bill?... Bill? Oh, I see. My mistake. It was just a ploy to get people to upgrade after all. Will you please stop with the "When will MS backport SP2 into SP's for earlier OSes". Even if you consider Win2k "current," it went into development 9 years ago. There's no way any backport of a Service Pack will ever bring Win2k to the level of XP or Win2k3 If you think it can you're deluding yourself. The code base has changed, and the development model with it. There is a frontport for Win2k though, it's called XP ;) If you care that much about the benefits that SP2 is bringing to XP that you want them in your current OS maybe it's time you upgraded. Perhaps we could try your thinking with our cars? If they're a few years old, take them back to the dealers and ask them to put the latest safety & security parts on them, because the new models have them. (all for free of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grindlestone Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 Will you please stop with the "When will MS backport SP2 into SP's for earlier OSes". Even if you consider Win2k "current," it went into development 9 years ago. There's no way any backport of a Service Pack will ever bring Win2k to the level of XP or Win2k3 If you think it can you're deluding yourself. The code base has changed, and the development model with it.There is a frontport for Win2k though, it's called XP ;) If you care that much about the benefits that SP2 is bringing to XP that you want them in your current OS maybe it's time you upgraded. Perhaps we could try your thinking with our cars? If they're a few years old, take them back to the dealers and ask them to put the latest safety & security parts on them, because the new models have them. (all for free of course) Stop? I've barely started. :laugh: I don't expect a "backport" for 2k, not at all. Never did, and I can understand why that would not either be practical or a priority. No doubt MS (probably rightly) think that most of the 2k installs are in corporate environments, well managed and already behind substantial protective mechanisms. 9.x might be a differnt matter though. :unsure: >>>>There is a frontport for Win2k though, it's called XP If you care that much about the benefits that SP2 is bringing to XP that you want them in your current OS maybe it's time you upgraded. My point exactly. As much as SP2 is about security it's also about encouraging upgrades. Don't delude yourselves. Certainly SP2's security enhancements might be useful, but it's also hype. I don't think any of the experienced users hanging around in this forum really need it - for security anyway - which is why I'm mystified why the thread creator is getting such flak for saying he's holding off on SP2 until it can show him (or her) a proven benefit. For Joe Average, however, SP2 is probably a good idea. It has the potential to make the internet safer and more secure for Aunty Jane who just wants to email pictures of her nephew to her friends - for a while at least. :blink: For me, I don't really care about SP2 or getting something similar for 2k. I have my firewall and antivirus worked out. Firefox or IE with the Google toolbar work fine for eliminating popups and my ISP blocks traffic on troublesome ports and scans email for viruses before they leave the server. :p Oh, and I've had substantial experience with XP and haven't liked it much and won't be upgrading. :x Maybe Longhorn... maybe Apple. >>>>Perhaps we could try your thinking with our cars? If they're a few years old, take them back to the dealers and ask them to put the latest safety & security parts on them, because the new models have them. (all for free of course) Interesting analogy. You all seem to be very happy that your "dealer" (interesting metaphor that) has provided a safety upgrade for an OS that is approaching 3 years of age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrispCreations Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 Thanks grindlestone I'm glad to see my post brought a considered response from you (much better than your original on an earlier page of this thread) I certainly have no delusions about MS's intention to use SP2 as a marketing tool. That shouldn't detract from it's benefits to the millions of 'Aunty Janes' in this world. Part of the overall problem has been the average users lack of awareness of security, and SP2 (and the accompanying marketing campaign) goes a long way to addressing that issue. A service pack alone was never going to raise awareness, but hyped up media coverage certainly was. After the battering MS have had on the security front in the last twelve months they had to be seen to be making ammends. Quietly releasing SP2 was never going to cut it. I don't see it as a cynical marketing exercise, I'm sure they would rather not have had the bad press in the first place than have to go to this sort of trouble to address the balance. 3 years old or not, XP is the current OS, and so is naturally where MS would focus their attentions, they can hardly start promoting Longhorn can they? I can't speak for others but from a personal point of view, yes, I'm happy about it. If it means less time spent explaining the virtues of layered protection to the people I sell systems to (Joe Average), and at the same time gives them an immediate focal point for security it's no bad thing (probably why I've installed it on 16 systems in the last week free of charge) I find that no matter how much I talk up the importance of security, the average Joe doesn't give a stuff, he's not going to check his virus defs are up to date, or that the firewall is working as it should (I always install AV & firewall software on new builds, but I still find them uninstalled or deactivated when I go out on support calls) Unfortunately, there's no patch for stupidity. At least with the Security Centre popping up every five minutes it stops them from remaining blissfully unaware that they have a problem. On the Win2k front I agree with you, but it hasn't stopped others questioning why no SP2 features for Win2k (those that don't have a grasp of the practicalities of what they're asking). I think it is fair to assume that most Win2k users will be in a corporate environment and will have security pretty much sewn up, and for them SP2 is nothing but a novelty, and the same can be said for most of the experienced users around here who use XP and are already well protected. Anyone that doesn't fall into either of those categories should be considering upgrading anyway (or at least make sure they have adequate protection) After all, it's no use just installing SP2 and thinking that's the end of your security problems. As for the thread starter getting flak. Not because he refuses to update to SP2, because to be honest no-one gives a toss. The flak comes mainly because he asked for reasons, and continues to debunk everyone who offers one, making the whole thread pointless. Again, thanks for the response, it made my posting in this thread worthwhile after all. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grindlestone Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 Thanks Kwapster I am equally glad to see that my comment has engendered such a cogent response from you (certainly a genuine improvement on your initial one). I think we actually have very few points of disagreement, if any. Nevertheless, allow me to explain where my viewpoints originate: The things that irks me most about the Windows line's weak security has been that Microsoft itself has continually promoted its products as ready to help us manage important parts of our lives. We are encouraged to commit all sorts of personal and important information to our systems (photos, personal records, work, artistic creations and so on), yet Microsoft has consistently favoured usability and featurism ahead of security (and, until recently, system reliability). The ease with which malcontents have been able to take advantage of Outlook Express and IE's vulnerabilities to disseminate their viruses, trojans and other malware has been (and remains) an unforgivable blunder on the part of Microsoft. Some feel that bagging MS for poor security is old hat, but I remain of the opinion that their products are still not sufficient for the purposes they have claimed, and that complacency on the part of users is counter productive to the process of improving the company's products. MS has repeatedly shown a "near enough is good enough approach" and this, in a company which holds a monopoly in desktop and home computing, is far from good enough. So, even though SP2 will have undoubted benefits for Aunty Jane, knowledgeable users should not stop voicing their complaints about these issues whenever they spot them. If some want a massive security update for 2K then let them call for it - be it a realistic request or not. As we all know, we are on a non-stop path to increasingly deeper integration of computing into our lives. Because MS is the company that provides that computing experience to most of us it's up to us to ensure they provide products that are actually worthy of their users. Leaving it up to MS alone just won't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearded Kirklander Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 I thought SP2 would be the bees knees, but it seems to have flaws (security and bugs) and the firewall is said to block incoming only, not outgoing (at least not properly) and besides all that, somehow my system went nuke after installing and then doing a shut down and firing it up the next day. Thankfully I restored an SP1 ghost image and it worked fine after that. So, I guess I'm pessimistic now. I expected it to be a much smoother transition, and the fact that it broke OE-QuoteFix on OE 6 kind of bugged me too. So, I'm all about SP1 at this point, and it seems to be doing fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 if you feel fine, you shouldn't, but as someone here at neowin said, it's nice to always have the latest version of something ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
python134r Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 update to SP2 for the reasons that have been said a million times! U have 8 pcs?- why not at least test Sp2 on one and them and see how u get on then report back here and we will accept ur apologies!! :D greg,douglas, Im not hijackin this thread but your avatar is a picture of a guy called "little wing" at the .:[LSE]:. Mohaa clan where I play all the time, it is scary isnt it. Oh, and yes I installed SP2 on 4 machines and did not have a problem with any of them cept style xp which to fix is a no-brainer. To be sure I first installed it on my test-bed machine, waited a few days while looking for any issues cause all are baisically have the same software and similar hardware capt the laptop. As with all service packs a certain # of people will have issues, most do not as far as I can see. :ninja: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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