official World of Warcraft

[dead.cell]

Ya know, it really doesn't matter that much in many cases. At least, not from my own experiences. Many times when I see people LFM, they're asking for a DPS requirement. Now, whether you're an under-geared player with skills or just a decked out jackass, your DPS speaks for itself.

Hell even if you're only maybe 200 DPS short, I'd still suggest signing up if you're confident in yourself. Maybe that's unfair to the group, but if you're like me, you never want to be the reason for a wipe. Follow directions, do your very best, and never give them a reason to point the finger at you. Now, if even to the best of your abilities that you can't come up with the right amount of DPS for the group, don't cry if you get kicked. And if you actually screwed up, expect the boot.

Now, if you can't get close to their DPS requirements at all, don't act like a little bitch about it throwing a fit. Nobody cares if you did it 1 million times on your main or whatever, they've set up a requirement. A PUG is not your guild. They are not there to help and support you. Sure, you can maybe ask if it's Naxx or something, and perhaps you might get an invite if they're nice enough, but don't get your hopes up.

That's how I feel about it at least. Best to get yourselves in a guild if you're looking for help.

[Noveed]

A raid full of good players doing 3k DPS vs crumby players with gear capable of 6k DPS will clear ToC faster simply because they're not going to have to repeat an encounter due to wiping to foolish mistakes.

Even if you carried every encounter to the enrage timer instead of setting world-fastestest kills: the difference in clear time is < 15 minutes.

Ok so <15 minutes saved is 15 minutes earned in a queue for a random lfg is it not? Again it boils down to efficiency and how players use their time.

I can pull 3,000 DPS without buffs in a 5-man dungeon wearing a full set of Dungeon Set 2, you don't need good gear to pull numbers like that.

So again, why the fuss with gear?

Good for you. You want a medal? You might be able to do this no doubt you are a skillful player. But you are assuming that others automatically can just because you can, not everyone posesses the same skill sets as you.

Why the obsession with things external to the player determining skill? If I quit my guild (9/12 hard modes down) and lost my gear to an account hacker or angry girlfriend, would I suddenly start standing in fires until I'd sunk a month or two into farming up badges? Would I become good whenever I had some magic gear score number?

But you have already aquired the gear have you not? And the reason you aquired the gear is because you may be a skillful player? So no doubt you can repeat the cycle of gearing up again cant you not?

Ive seen players hit over 6k GS now on my realm, i will go as far as to say that i highly doubt you can get that score at this current point of time just by getting boosted by others, unless you are very friendly with a high end raiding guild or you do pvp. Theres a reason why the score is that high and that is because them players are good at what they do.

Official raid & dungeon forums doesn't support your claim. While there isn't good statistical information available that forums seems to indicate that DPS queue times are substantial.

Do you have any evidence to support your claim that most DPS have fast queue times? Through out this entire discussion I've been willing to use your estimates of instant queue times and 10-15 badges per hour, I'm not sure why you keep bringing this up.

The world does not revolve around the US realms... EU-Stormrage queue as a tank its and instant group, queue as a healer you may have to wait 60 seconds at most, queue as a dps , most i have every waited to join a random is 10-15 minutes tops.

Depending on what randoms one gets you can easily get over 10 badges an hour. You get 2 free just to join and finish it plus the amount of badges that drop in the dungeon itself. I have finished quite a few dungeons before my Random LFG debuff ran out its not a big deal at all.

So in order to quickly gear a character all I have to do is level another character, farm a couple dozen badges, join a raiding guild, play for several months and collect a handful of BoE raid drops, farm a few thousand gold to buy/craft/make more gear, and then play a dozen hours or so farming dungeons?

In most cases levelling alts is faster than levelling your first to 80, you cant send money from main if you need it, cant craft gear on main and send over etc

I had around 2-3k Gold just from going to 70-80 on my pally, i am assuming other players should end up with the same regardless if they level thier first or an alt unless they spend it on gear and other stuff.

Even so if one is levelling the first toon they should have some concepts of what to expect when they hit 80. So they should already know to gear up quick they will need to craft/buy/farm hcs for gear... or am i right to think that because they dont have the gear or an understanding they are not skilled?

Also, don't you think this contradicts your earlier statement. "My Pally ding'd to 80 on 06/12/2009 , i had full tier 9 holy and ret set a week later just by doing heroics and not setting a foot in a raid group". At the very best it was intentionally misleading IMO. You're claiming to have done a fair bit of badge farming and raiding - you just did it on a different character. Just because you play on another toon doesn't mean you haven't sunk the time into collecting gear.

Not at all, i mentioned that i had a main and because of that it was easier to level my pally, not misleading at all its how you interpreted it.

How is somebody supposed to get into a weekly raid if you're rejecting them on their gear? Let's just assume that every week the boss is Flame Laviathan (i assume you don't think gear matters for that?)

I have raid led brain deads to lord Jaraxxus (with a few wipes) but none the less we downed him. I guess its pot luck if people with bad gear get invited or not. Sure if they know what to do regardless of gear they may get an invite but most of the time i want to get things over and done with so i tend to run with half decent geared groups for efficiency.

And offcourse gear matters for FL, higher item level = more damage... however i have not stressed over taking people who have just hit 80 to FL you cant really fail unless you have the intention to.

If you're trying to make the case that you can go from fresh-80 to Tier 9 geared in a week this is a non-starter. The difference is 11g per week: the 7 triumph badges you earn doing the weekly raid could just as easily have come from a random dungeon group (ie: Occulas) for a similar time commitment. That leaves 5 frost emblems - If you're trying to make the case that a casual player can gear up in a week then they don't amount to anything. If you take my position: that a casual player will likely spend a month or more collecting gear then the weekly raid + random dungeon groups turn into Tier 10 pieces at a rate of 1 item every month (average price 78 badges, maximum number of frost emblems per week is 19 unless you kill tier-10 dropping bosses).

Might be a non starter for you but i accomplished it and many others in my guild also have. Do all the calculations you want casuals/hardcores and the in betweeners do not have set times they play per week, fair enough the average maybe 8 hours like you mentioned but if you seriously want to gear to T9 Level on a fresh 80 its doable, put the time and effort it.

You keep asserting that gear = skill and that you have no doubt that it's true but I'm not seeing support for the claim.

I guess we can agree to disagree then...

I think it's perfectly reasonable for an otherwise competent player to have relatively poor gear if they simply don't spend much time on that character.

Thats thier problem then, my DK doesnt have the best of gear and i have neglected that for quite some time to focus on pally and hunter, however i can still bother to do the daily hc and weekly raid for the frost badges and since the release of 3.3 i have around 3-4 pieces of Frost badge loot. I dont spend time on that character apart for dailys and weeklys or do these players you are referring to play even less that i do on my dk?

* had to break reply up due to number of quotes.

I propose that it takes roughly 30-40 hours to completely gear a character with Tier 9 quality loot (using your numbers for badges/hour and assuming half the gear is badge purchased and the other half drops while farming those badges). I'm using Blizzards numbers for the average player's time commitment (8 hours per week) and coming up with 30-40 hours or 4-5 weeks. If a person splits their time 75%/25% on mail/alt - it's reasonable to expect that it might take them a few months to gear up.

8 hours per week works out just over 1 hour a day. If blizzard seriously thinks thats the average for casuals then their perception of casuals imo is incorrect. Most casuals do raid.. fact. That raid depending on what it is can take more than 1 hour, most casuals do do dailys and weeklys too. 8 hours per week is probably someone using wow as a glorified version of irc/msn.

I might do 2-3 hours a night have work/before bed and around 4-5 hours on a saturday and sunday, i class that as casual, theres a few hardcore chaps that i know ingame who play around 40 hours per week and juggle around work (not something i would reccomend or do myself but its whatever floats thier boat)

I don't understand your assertion that good gear = good skill. If everyone in my guild put on blues would they instantly lose all knowledge of how to play?

If your guild did not have skill would you have the gear you currently have? ... thought not. Just because you have lost gear or put on blues so what? You still have been to the pinnacle of gear in game and theres a reason for that. You said yourself you doing hardmodes in icc10 your a player who has already proved they have skill. Uldaur was cleared in blues (not a single epic, all blues were ilvl 200 and below) by a guild just because they wanted to show it could be done, yes they were skillful players which is why they did it, dont expect your ordinary tom, dick or harry to accomplish the same though.

Obviously your and my views are different but thats life. Lets just agree to disagree as clearly my opinion is solid and set in stone. Good skilled players always end up with better gear.

[I am Redbeard]

tldr: I have an opinion.

[Minifig]

I think I found a potential plot hole. :shifty:

[dead.cell]

I think I found a potential plot hole. :shifty:

Hardly.

Also, let's not forget that there a number of plot holes that exist simply because World of Warcraft is a game. Blizzard is fully aware of this, having admitted to some flaws with the story. Does it make that big of a deal though? No, not really. It's simply a matter of gameplay. Not everything works out.

Oh, and to what you quoted...

Jaina later arrived at the Frozen Halls to confront the Lich King and attempt to reason with the Dark Lord, in hopes of releasing the spirit of her lost love, Arthas. She guided a small group of Alliance heroes through the halls of Icecrown Citadel and eventually arrived at the Halls of Reflection. Within the private chambers of the Lich King, Jaina and her troupe discovered Frostmourne, the blade that stole Arthas' soul and lead to the fall of Lordaeron. Jaina communed with the souls stolen from Frostmourne and much to her surprise, Uther the Lightbringer appeared and told her a terrible truth. Not only did he inform her that Arthas was nothing but a small glimmer of light that stayed the Lich King's wrath, but in order to protect Azeroth, the Lich King would have to be killed and a replacement would have to make the ultimate sacrifice.

Suddenly, the Lich King entered the chambers and Uther was sucked back into Frostmourne. The Lich King coldly acknowledged Jaina while removing Frostmourne from its pedestal. The Lich King summoned Falric and Marwyn, two captains Jaina fought alongside during the Third War. As The Lich King retreated to his private chambers and sicked the captains on her allies, Jaina remained determined to save Arthas and pursued him as the doors behind her closed. Following the defeat of the two captains, Jaina's allies rushed to her aid only to find her on the verge of defeat, with her former love viciously attacking her. Heartbroken, Jaina and her allies fled down the Hidden Passage with the Lich King in steady pursuit. As they came to a cliff, The Skybreaker flew in and rescued them at the last moment.

As you can see, there are two sides to the coin, which simply allow for gameplay for both factions in Halls of Reflection.

[Minifig]

Created a new guild for my friends and I tonight, loving the name of it. :)

Surprised how slow the armory is updating as of lately. :(

[dead.cell]

Created a new guild for my friends and I tonight, loving the name of it. :)

Surprised how slow the armory is updating as of lately. :(

Armory updates around what... 1AM PST? Same ol' to me.

[Shaun N.]

Armory updates around what... 1AM PST? Same ol' to me.

True story.

[Minifig]

Armory updates around what... 1AM PST? Same ol' to me.

http://www.wowarmory.com/search.xml?searchQuery=Aindraes&searchType=all

Click the Top most Aindraes.

The one in Souls Bound Tavern.

When you click his name (ie .. MINE..) it still says I'm in Cheers.

:blink:

[gigapixels Veteran]

http://www.wowarmory.com/search.xml?searchQuery=Aindraes&searchType=all

Click the Top most Aindraes.

The one in Souls Bound Tavern.

When you click his name (ie .. MINE..) it still says I'm in Cheers.

:blink:

It appears the link hasn't updated yet, but if you check what it should be... http://www.wowarmory.com/guild-info.xml?r=Undermine&cn=Aindraes&gn=Souls%20Bound%20Tavern

[Slane]

http://www.wowarmory.com/search.xml?searchQuery=Aindraes&searchType=all

Click the Top most Aindraes.

The one in Souls Bound Tavern.

When you click his name (ie .. MINE..) it still says I'm in Cheers.

:blink:

Sometimes guild take awhile to appear on teh armory. I left a guild and joined a new one and it took over a week for the new guild tag to appear. Other times it took one session of playing and it was updating.

RNG applies outside the game also. :P

[lalalawawawa]

Deathknight needed for, and got one of Illidan's swords. Damn, I hate it when I play with that kind of people. :(

[the evn show]

Deathknight needed for, and got one of Illidan's swords. Damn, I hate it when I play with that kind of people. :(

What's the problem? It's old dead loot with no real value.

[dead.cell]

What's the problem? It's old dead loot with no real value.

Would be nice just to have for grins. I believe the problem lies with the fact that DKs can't equip it at all anyway, thus making it kinda of pointless to roll on such an item at all...

[Shaun N.]

DK's can't equip swords? oh wait they prolly can't equip THAT sword due to the class requirements.

[lalalawawawa]

What's the problem? It's old dead loot with no real value.

Being on a TBC account, it has a value. :p (Yea, I know, I really need to get WotLK)

[obiwong]

Deathknight needed for, and got one of Illidan's swords. Damn, I hate it when I play with that kind of people. :(

go farm Kael for Ashes of Al'ar

[dead.cell]

DK's can't equip swords? oh wait they prolly can't equip THAT sword due to the class requirements.

Yeah, that.

[nubs]

oh that is lame! I would have been ****ed to need on that thing and find out I couldn't equip it. :whistle:

[Minifig]

ATTN UK POSTERS!

Cataclysm rumours/info now in PC Gamer UK VERY BIG Spoilers

In the latest issue of PC Gamer (UK) is a 6 page article named '50 reasons to play Catalysm'. The vast majority of what is covered is already known/confirmed, however, there appears to be verifcation of certain rumours first made here on MMO-champion in the days before Blizzcon but that were never confirmed nor denied.

If you can get a hold of this and scan it..

PLEASE do.

[dead.cell]

ATTN UK POSTERS!

Cataclysm rumours/info now in PC Gamer UK VERY BIG Spoilers

In the latest issue of PC Gamer (UK) is a 6 page article named '50 reasons to play Catalysm'. The vast majority of what is covered is already known/confirmed, however, there appears to be verifcation of certain rumours first made here on MMO-champion in the days before Blizzcon but that were never confirmed nor denied.

If you can get a hold of this and scan it..

PLEASE do.

Doesn't that go against copyrights? And why do you want it that badly anyway? Much of the information is stuff we already know. They listed some stuff we didn't know or simply didn't have confirmed on MMO-Champion.

If you're still eager to read it yourself though, go here.

And just in case you may have missed this disclaimer, here it is again with certain parts in bold for emphasis.

Note #1 Important - The guys from PC Gamer were kind enough to give me a few more information on that. The article is NOT officially endorsed by Blizzard and is mostly the result of their own work, that means that a small part of speculation is involved. Just keep in mind that we're talking about people who interviewed developers in the past and who sell thousands of magazines each month.

[Shaun N.]

You should know Minifig by now.

[cltiso]

LFG and BG's lvl 61-66, long que times anyone else having the same issues?

[Ryanjmchale]

Hello fellow Neowinions !!

Exodus guild are recruiting (DraenorEU) -

Holy Pala, Resto Sham, Resto Druid, Holy Priest

We currently have the Lich King down on 10 and 25 man

Exceptional players please apply at www.exodusguild.eu

[I am Redbeard]

My WoW Blog.

Just got my druid to 69 last night. Thinking about staying Feral Tank for good. I don't think resto is for me.