official World of Warcraft

[firey]

I find it amazing how people are surprised by progressive game design.

I'll venture to say that if the game had not changed in the past four years you would probably complain about that.

Oh don't get me wrong, I like seeing changes, seeing the fact the game is being worked on. However, I have and had no problems with the way the game worked in BC (I didn't get to play vanilla). Gear was worked for, leveling was not a walk in the park, and the game required some thought. So in that way no I wouldn't complain if the game and the way things worked stayed the same.

I am not complaining I am just simply stating how much of a change has happened. Progressive? I don't know about that...content wise sure the game itself has moved forward in some cases such as the dungeon queues, boss fights, etc. However it is also going backwards in some cases by re-working the talents, and leveling, and skill points in actual game-play not content.

[I am Redbeard]

Oh don't get me wrong, I like seeing changes, seeing the fact the game is being worked on. However, I have and had no problems with the way the game worked in BC (I didn't get to play vanilla). Gear was worked for, leveling was not a walk in the park, and the game required some thought. So in that way no I wouldn't complain if the game and the way things worked stayed the same.

I am not complaining I am just simply stating how much of a change has happened. Progressive? I don't know about that...content wise sure the game itself has moved forward in some cases such as the dungeon queues, boss fights, etc. However it is also going backwards in some cases by re-working the talents, and leveling, and skill points in actual game-play not content.

Being a starter at the time of BC myself, I can understand disliking the homogenization of buffs and consolidation of talents and everything else... but really, none of those things affect a players performance, which (IMO) in this genre is the overall goal regardless of personal preference. Most of the changes people seem to have an issue with are changes that have made the game easier or "dumbed" down.. let us not forget that Blizzard is a company where the main goal is profit, and lots of it. The game now is easier for new players to understand and make them want to play more.

The game still does require thought and coordination, e.g; Hard-mode Progression. Heck, even normal mode progression takes coordination. The game is extremely easy if you play it as if it were a single player game, but that's not what it is.

Elaborate on "actual-game play not content" because without one the other is rendered nonexistent.

[firey]

Elaborate on "actual-game play not content" because without one the other is rendered nonexistent.

Was just saying like.. Gameplay (as in lack of ammo, easier to get geared out, etc). Content as in new raids, new dungeons, higher level cap, new monsters.

I understand that the game is made for the masses, I just personally preferred when you played with people that knew their class inside out, and did not have to hold peoples hands. For example there was a warlock I played with that did horrid dps, as a disc priest with worse gear if I focus dps'd I did more damage.

These are just my opinions, and if you diasgree then so be it, and I know that nothing I say will change wow, nor hold any value. I just wondered if anyone else felt the same about any of my opinions, or why they disagreed.

[I am Redbeard]

I'm not trying to flame you in anyway, I'm just tired of reading people continuously disagreeing/complaining about the state of the game. It's especially annoying because the complaints are recycled from forum to forum yet ultimately they are deemed baseless (complaining just to complain).

The removal of ammo is something that shouldn't upset you, or anyone. I have 110 days /played on my hunter and I don't see what the fuss is. I try to see the "well it's less realistic.." and the "it made hunters unique" but I can't agree. As a hunter for so long I often felt like I was the only class that was spending e-money to attack things. Every shot fired = $. That didn't make sense to me but that's the way it always was and the argument was the same then as it is now only the perspectives were opposite. Dev's felt ammo was unique to the class etc. Another thing that has gone away (rightly so) was feeding your pet all the time to keep it happy and thus have it do 125% of normal damage. I wonder why people aren't complaining about not having to feed their pets all the time.

If anything, and this is my opinion, complain that you're buying regular old ammunition yet are able to fire an arrow that explodes twice. For ammo to make sense, to me, it should be more complicated and change for each raid boss (different types of arrows.. fire/ice etc.). But, that would be a lot of work and would have people complaining that they have to swap out ammo all the time yadda yadda. The best solution was to take it out.

Again with the comment of it being easy to gear out... if it was hard to gear out everyone, would complain, ultimately forcing the devs to make it easier. I've always been a firm supporter of Player > Gear. Evn has given examples of wearing t2 gear and out dpsing people in ilev 200s or better. Getting gear is only half the battle, knowing how to utilize the abilities your given is the other. This brings your comment about a bad lock full circle. I'll assume you were in a random dungeon with this bad player. Regardless, a bad player is a bad player is a bad player. There are bad players playing every game. WoW is a game that requires you to count on other people for your own personal success. People still do know their classes inside and out. These people raid or are in the arenas. These people aren't running heroics constantly because heroics and skilled aren't necessarily synonymous. These people aren't in battle grounds unless they've organized an premade. A great thing about WoW is that it doesn't force you to do anything. If you want to play with similarly talented players it's going to require you to find those players. They are out there and they are enjoying the game together.

Your opinions do hold value, and although I do disagree with what you said I can understand your opinion.

[the evn show]

Evn has given examples of wearing t2 gear and out dpsing people in ilev 200s or better.

It was actually dungeonset 2 (AKA Tier 0.5).

These people aren't running heroics constantly because heroics and skilled aren't necessarily synonymous. These people aren't in battle grounds unless they've organized an premade. A great thing about WoW is that it doesn't force you to do anything

I think this is the key point. In classic there was no RDF and there were no pug BWLs. I know there was pug Black Temple (because I ran them) but they were the exception rather than the rule. Most people never saw past Karazhan.

If you (the general 'you') long for the old days where everyone you played with was near your level of progress and experience: turn off trade chat, don't use the RDF, and only make pugs from people on your friends list. You'll probably find you end up playing with "better" players, but you'll also be doing a lot less.

[bjoswald]

The more I see of Cataclysm, the more excited I get. When 4.01 dropped, my DPS warrior (only toon) was all but worthless. But man, were they quick to patch it and get everything back to normal!

Looking over the stat, rotation, and itemization changes, I think the current WoW team really listened to a lot of the criticism from the 'Wrath' era and steered WoW back into the right direction. Everything I've seen

so far looks amazing. I love how they recycled 'vanilla' content but put a fresh coat of paint on it to make it interesting again. I think Cataclysm will be a breath of fresh air for a lot of folks.

[NotSoBad]

&*&^%^^ $*%^$ when the hell did they drop the Cold Weather Flying Book!!

Went to buy it for my lvl 72 warrior, and it was gone, then discovered you can now get Cold Weather Flying on any alt at lvl 68.

Been running around when I could have flown :cry:

[Rogue`]

&*&^%^^ $*%^$ when the hell did they drop the Cold Weather Flying Book!!

Went to buy it for my lvl 72 warrior, and it was gone, then discovered you can now get Cold Weather Flying on any alt at lvl 68.

Been running around when I could have flown :cry:

You could use the BoA book at level 68 as well, you just couldn't get Epic flying till level 70.

[I am Redbeard]

It was actually dungeonset 2 (AKA Tier 0.5).

I knew there was a 2 in there, :p

[firey]

All the points against me are valid no doubt. The lock I mentioned was actually in a guild I was in. I guess I just miss the way the game was back when I started, I didn't play a hunter enough to become annoyed with arrows or the cost or the pet so as a player that has I know you have solid reasoning.

I know that there a groups of people out there that do focus on content and hard modes, and all that (Ensidia) and I try and look for the more serious guilds. I agree with the whole player > gear but I have been replaced in groups soley based on gear-score. Ie) I have 4800 GS someone comes along with vendor epics with 5100 GS and I am replaced only because they ran enough dungeons to be able to buy gear that I don't have time or want to spam dungeon runs for. So I feel that gear wise anyways it should be a reflection of skill too. Like t4, 5, 6 the only way to get that was to do endgame instances (Kara, Mag, Gruul, BT, TK, etc). So if you rocked that (up till 3.0 patch and all the nerfs happened) that meant you were something.

[the evn show]

I agree with the whole player > gear but I have been replaced in groups soley based on gear-score

That's a problem with the jerks you play with, not the game. If you can clear 95% of the content in the game (everything but yogg, algalon, sindy, putricide, BQL, LK, and Halion) in blues then gear is really pointless. You need to find people that buy into that mentality and play with them.

Believing that skill > gear only carries you so far, you also need to make 9 friends that have that same mindset and the desire to prove that it's true.

[treemonster]

I'm not trying to flame you in anyway, I'm just tired of reading people continuously disagreeing/complaining about the state of the game. It's especially annoying because the complaints are recycled from forum to forum yet ultimately they are deemed baseless (complaining just to complain).

The removal of ammo is something that shouldn't upset you, or anyone. I have 110 days /played on my hunter and I don't see what the fuss is. I try to see the "well it's less realistic.." and the "it made hunters unique" but I can't agree. As a hunter for so long I often felt like I was the only class that was spending e-money to attack things. Every shot fired = $. That didn't make sense to me but that's the way it always was and the argument was the same then as it is now only the perspectives were opposite. Dev's felt ammo was unique to the class etc. Another thing that has gone away (rightly so) was feeding your pet all the time to keep it happy and thus have it do 125% of normal damage. I wonder why people aren't complaining about not having to feed their pets all the time.

If anything, and this is my opinion, complain that you're buying regular old ammunition yet are able to fire an arrow that explodes twice. For ammo to make sense, to me, it should be more complicated and change for each raid boss (different types of arrows.. fire/ice etc.). But, that would be a lot of work and would have people complaining that they have to swap out ammo all the time yadda yadda. The best solution was to take it out.

Again with the comment of it being easy to gear out... if it was hard to gear out everyone, would complain, ultimately forcing the devs to make it easier. I've always been a firm supporter of Player > Gear. Evn has given examples of wearing t2 gear and out dpsing people in ilev 200s or better. Getting gear is only half the battle, knowing how to utilize the abilities your given is the other. This brings your comment about a bad lock full circle. I'll assume you were in a random dungeon with this bad player. Regardless, a bad player is a bad player is a bad player. There are bad players playing every game. WoW is a game that requires you to count on other people for your own personal success. People still do know their classes inside and out. These people raid or are in the arenas. These people aren't running heroics constantly because heroics and skilled aren't necessarily synonymous. These people aren't in battle grounds unless they've organized an premade. A great thing about WoW is that it doesn't force you to do anything. If you want to play with similarly talented players it's going to require you to find those players. They are out there and they are enjoying the game together.

Your opinions do hold value, and although I do disagree with what you said I can understand your opinion.

+1

That's a problem with the jerks you play with, not the game. If you can clear 95% of the content in the game (everything but yogg, algalon, sindy, putricide, BQL, LK, and Halion) in blues then gear is really pointless. You need to find people that buy into that mentality and play with them.

Believing that skill > gear only carries you so far, you also need to make 9 friends that have that same mindset and the desire to prove that it's true.

that's the hard part of any mmo. finding the right people to play with, and everyone staying active over a period of time. slightly easier in wow on teh second part(activity tends to be better in wow than say new mmos), but it can still be a huge challenge to find people that will play with you based on say your wish to world pvp or just run old content dungeons or won't mathlete your gearscore for your raid spot or w/e.

not to say there aren't people that stubbornly brag about doing vanilla raids with only 1-10 players in quest greens or roll on pvp servers only to simply log out at the first sign of world pvp or roll on rp servers simply to report violations of the rp ruleset or play the realm forum more than they play the game.

but you can do whatever you want in wow. and doing the annoying gearing up and leveling is reasonably faster and easier than other mmo's out there. i can think of an mmo or two where it was done better in some ways, and felt less boring at the time, but i also had really cool people playing with me in those mmo's, and i have to say those mmo's could be incredibly ridiculous in certain ways that wow felt like such a relief from in comparison.

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

when i saw this i had to lol, looks like Gamon has had enough of being picked on, lol

[treemonster]

what does overkill in wow mean? i don't recall seeing it the last few times i played wow? i've seen something similar in a couple rpg's and mmo's, just curious as to what it means in wow.

[SMELTN]

man, I hate you guys.. I have come back. After being gone for almost 2 years, I reactivated my old account the other day. Started out a new Drainei mage on a new server with some old friends and after that first night playing, I am back on the crack!! Can't stop and after 2days play time I am now at level 46..

[treemonster]

man, I hate you guys.. I have come back. After being gone for almost 2 years, I reactivated my old account the other day. Started out a new Drainei mage on a new server with some old friends and after that first night playing, I am back on the crack!! Can't stop and after 2days play time I am now at level 46..

hwo do you do it. ever since wotlk came out every time i've tried to play one of my toons or reroll i get to level 5 or 7 or do a few world pvps and then log out and waste the rest of my time card.

the last time i played me and my bro basically dueled my level 7 rogue against his 5x priest for 2 hours.

[SMELTN]

lol you get in the grove. Remember I haven't played in almost 2 years, so that was a long break. Plus last time I played I played Horde, this time I am playing alliance so really its like seeing all new content, that helps

[Dashel]

They just lured me back with their 7 day pass as well. Bastages!

[the evn show]

what does overkill in wow mean? i don't recall seeing it the last few times i played wow? i've seen something similar in a couple rpg's and mmo's, just curious as to what it means in wow.

I have 30,000 health, you shoot me in the face for 16,000 damage and I have 14,000 health left

You shot me again for 5,000 but I resist 2000. The total damage had I not resisted would have been 7000. I have 9,000 health

You shoot me a third time for 9,000 (all of my remaining health) with 1,000 overkill, I die. The total damage had I not died would have been 10,000.

[treemonster]

I have 30,000 health, you shoot me in the face for 16,000 damage and I have 14,000 health left

You shot me again for 5,000 but I resist 2000. The total damage had I not resisted would have been 7000. I have 9,000 health

You shoot me a third time for 9,000 (all of my remaining health) with 1,000 overkill, I die. The total damage had I not died would have been 10,000.

but does it add anything else?

umm for example in lineage 2 you did overkill damage with certain skill for last hit and got an exp bonus. is it anything like that?

or is it just an "i did so much damage on last hit i could've killed him a second time!" type thing?

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

but does it add anything else?

umm for example in lineage 2 you did overkill damage with certain skill for last hit and got an exp bonus. is it anything like that?

or is it just an "i did so much damage on last hit i could've killed him a second time!" type thing?

No bonus, but I always thought it was " I hit you harder then I had to thing "

And I loved Lin2, played from OB- quit about a year after retail

[treemonster]

No bonus, but I always thought it was " I hit you harder then I had to thing "

And I loved Lin2, played from OB- quit about a year after retail

i played from about the start of c3 to around the start of c6 iirc, might've played longer but my siege clan broke up after taking aden and i ended up in caln friendly to my arch enemy on my server and then a clan of mostly chinese players who didn't use vent much which made it boring. so i spent a week PKing their war targets in d grade sword and ng robes(as a sorc) and then botted on the new server just to see what the bot client could do which confirmed my suspicions about alot of people in the game(ie using bots in pvp to find/avoid us)

anyways overkill is still cool. can use it when i world pvp to enlarge my epeen and gloat over my fallen enemies even harder. XD

[Lexcyn]

BTW I don't know if this was mentioned, but running in DX11 gives you better water graphics (eg reflections, better refraction, etc) than DX9. Player reflections still don't work but I heard this was supposed to be fixed by Cata release.

[I am Redbeard]

I love that Gamon was upgraded.

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

I love that Gamon was upgraded.

Agreed, but I want him to have cleave and a 10ft knock back that goes with it,,,, have him just mow through raids yelling " Never Again "