The Official Mac OS X "Tiger" Thread

[tunafish]

Removed - Radish?b>

[toastyghost]

Hi, my name is tunafish, I'm asking for a banning, right here.

585770470[/snapback]

:whistle:

[RadishTM Veteran]

:whistle:

585770497[/snapback]

Might have to comply with that unless he edits his post.

Radish?

[Southern Patriot]

and no, it wasn't through ADCwhatever is it you call it that I got it from. But I can tell you that the version I have is the gold version AND I got it from people who NEED to test there stuff on new OS release. I'm not asking you to beleive me I telling you like it is.

585770228[/snapback]

ADC = Apple Developer Connection. In other words, the place that developers have to pay $500 for the privilege of testing pre-release software from Apple. That would be the place that "people who NEED to test there stuff on new OS release" get it. And as of the last time I checked (a few hours ago) the latest build available through them is 8A425. If you really do have 8A428, then please post a screenshot of just the "About this Mac" box. If it truly is GM, then you certainly couldn't get in any trouble for posting that screenshot.

Until you can prove otherwise, I'm still calling you a liar on that.

Edited April 13, 2005 by roadwarrior

[dan]

I love being student Ive just ordered 10.4 for ?50 english pounds, yes people thats $95... yay!

[macssuck]

The problem isn't with the color of the pixels, it's that OS X is now officially "broken". Applications work a certain way depending on what Steve (or whoever is in charge of this stuff) feels on any given day.

Example 1, Moving a Window.

• Brushed metal windows can be moved from pretty much any metal area but now quiet all of them. You can drag a Safari window by it's status bar. Certain areas are still off limits though, you cannot drag using the active tab.
  
• Dashboard widgets can be moved my dragging from anywhere. The places that won't move the window will do something else when you click on them (text area, popup menu).
  
• Aqua Windows only drag from the title bar.
  
• Unified toolbar windows (aka plastic) can be moved by dragging from the toolbar or from the title bar, but not anywhere else.
  

The end result is that it is no longer obvious if a given action will move a window. If a user learns that it's okay to drag finder windows by the left or right edges, he/she will be confused when that doesn't work in preview. If they learn that toolbar dragging works, they'll be confused when they run keynote and it doesn't.

Example two: buttons aren't buttons anymore:

• There is the standard push button in aqua
  
• The brushed metal "toggle" button (ie: shuffle playlist in itunes
  
• ugly purple "?" button for help
  
• The "segmented control" (it's a collection of 'buttons' that look something like mails new toolbar but have half-a-dozen different behaviors)
  
• Metal buttons that have menus when held (safari back button)
  
• metal buttons that have menus but aren't normal-clickable (finder action button)
  
• metal buttons that are square but behave like round buttons
  
• aqua buttons that are really drop menus in disguise (pdf button in print window)
  
• plus all the button-like objects in other applications (like knobs in protools or some of the stupid UI things you see in garageband), but those are just bad interfaces on programs, they're not really a problem with OS X
  

Example three: the dock icon for dashboard

• It's always 'ruuning' and has a little black triangle
  
• It will not participate in drag/drop events even though widgets can
  
• You cannot 'quit' it, but you can move it around
  
• You can 'poof' it out of the dock, and even though it's not really an application you add it by going to the applications folder and dragging it back (there's no option to 'undo' the poof action in system preferences)
  

The dashboard icon behaves like a menu extra, but I guess that part of the screen was already reserved for spotlight so dashboard got stuffed in the dock so that we would notice it. Steve & co wanted everybody using it. Some 10.3 users have no idea expos? exists unless you show it to them because it doesn't have an on-screen presence (hint: they don't post on computer forums). We can't have that happening for a second time, can we?

Having all the pixels look the same isn't consistency, sometimes that gets in the way of usability (it's much easier to spot a garageband in a sea of windows using expos? than it is to differentiate between iterm, xterm, and terminal windows). Applications don't look the same and they don't work the same either, worst of all, there's no obvious reason for it. You can't even guess what a control does by looking at it any more: buttons are drop menus are check boxes are are radio buttons, and if you do consistently guess correctly it's because you've managed to master the weird set of rules that make it all work, not because the interface makes it easy.

EDIT:

Here's a picture of the three main window styles in OS X now (ignoring dashboard widgets) for the poster that doesn't know the difference.

textured window = brushed metal

unified toolbar = plastic

aqua = "normal" window

Edited April 13, 2005 by macssuck

[tunafish]

Might have to comply with that unless he edits his post.

Radish?

585770519[/snapback]

well im not asking for anything am i

so i dont see how i can be banned, as im not asking for warez or posting warez

[RadishTM Veteran]

well im not asking for anything am i

so i dont see how i can be banned, as im not asking for warez or posting warez

585770604[/snapback]

You are asking him to seed a commerical program in the form of a torrent that has not yet been released.

So yeah, you can be banned for asking. Also your previous posts asking to leak "Tiger" builds doesn't help your cause.

Don't give people ideas.

Radish?

[Sidizzle]

yay i love being a student ?50 for osx10.4!

[S.MULLA]

Might have to comply with that unless he edits his post.

Radish?

585770519[/snapback]

i think hes just trying to get some attention:sleep:eep:

[tunafish]

your a stuck up idiot, i was not asking for anything directly

hell i dont even have a mac

you really should speak to people who back seat moderate

so just get of my case, as i aint done anything wrong

[PureEdit]

ADC = Apple Developer Connection.  In other words, the place that developers have to pay $500 for the privilege of testing pre-release software from Apple.  That would be the place that "people who NEED to test there stuff on new OS release" get it.  And as of the last time I checked (a few hours ago) the latest build available through them is 8A425.  If you really do have 8A428, then please post a screenshot of just the "About this Mac" box.  If it truly is GM, then you certainly couldn't get in any trouble for posting that screenshot.

Until you can prove otherwise, I'm still calling you a liar on that.

585770521[/snapback]

There are people who have it already, he might be telling the truth. I personally haven't seen anything newer then 8A425, but some of my buddies have.

[RadishTM Veteran]

There are people who have it already, he might be telling the truth. I personally haven't seen anything newer then 8A425, but some of my buddies have.

585771330[/snapback]

Do you think Apple could be signing off on a build higher than 8A428?, haven't heard any concrete evidence apart from rumour sites.

Radish?

[johnhood]

Since the advent of Aqua, Apple's UI division is spending too much time in Photoshop! However, the proof of the pudding is in the eating and I've already ordered Tiger. The future's bright... No, very bright judging by those Fisher Price XP screen shots!

[Southern Patriot]

How is font smoothing in Tiger? I hear it's now "Automatic" compared to "Manual" (as on the comparison page of OS X 10.2, 10.3 and 10.4 on the Apple Page). I noticed in Fusion's screenshots that the text is different. Are you still able to manually control font smoothing?

585769789[/snapback]

You can either set it the same way you did before, or put it on Automatic, which determines the best setting based on the display type.

[PureEdit]

Do you think Apple could be signing off on a build higher than 8A428?, haven't heard any concrete evidence apart from rumour sites.

Radish?

585771370[/snapback]

All I have heard is that 8A428 is the GM and 8A432 is currently in testing for 10.4.1.

[johnhood]

Hi Radish,

I was thinking the same regarding the Tiger GM build! With a digital pipeline presumably Apple can release a final candidate very close to the global shipping date.

[Southern Patriot]

There are people who have it already, he might be telling the truth. I personally haven't seen anything newer then 8A425, but some of my buddies have.

585771330[/snapback]

Until it shows up in my ADC download list, I think I'll trust that more than "friend of a friend" stories. The only way someone might have newer builds than what's on ADC would be if they were an internal beta tester for Apple, and with the current climate of lawsuits, they'd be really stupid to leak it to anyone. If it had been leaked, you'd know about it really quick. Things like that don't stay under wraps for very long.

[Southern Patriot]

Do you think Apple could be signing off on a build higher than 8A428?, haven't heard any concrete evidence apart from rumour sites.

Radish?

585771370[/snapback]

I doubt it unless there was something serious found that they haven't let ADC members know about yet. The only problems in 8A425 were very minor, and shouldn't have taken long to fix, so 8A428 is reasonable as GM. I don't dispute that it is the GM build, but I do doubt people claiming that they have it without offering any proof.

A screenshot proving the existence of 8A428 has yet to surface either, which is what leads me to believe that those claiming they have it are liars. If 8A428 is in fact the release build, then there would be no more legal restrictions (that I'm aware of) on posting screen shots. Those restrictions only apply to pre-release software. Therefore, if it does exist and is in fact GM, why haven't any screenshots of it been posted?

[RadishTM Veteran]

True, I might be holding out on buying Tiger until 10.4.1 is released and to see if the apps I use are compatible with Tiger.

Radish?

[suntzu]

well i bought mine from apple.com (us), and interestingly enough i logged in to check order status and it says arrival no later than the 28th! It would be nice to see it ship as soon as its printed and boxed! Man it's going to be along 2 weeks.

[RadishTM Veteran]

I remember when Panther was released and some people got it one day before the release date.

Radish?

[macssuck]

If 8A428 is in fact the release build, then there would be no more legal restrictions (that I'm aware of) on posting screen shots.  Those restrictions only apply to pre-release software.  Therefore, if it does exist and is in fact GM, why haven't any screenshots of it been posted?

585771507[/snapback]

The NDA is not lifted until the general public can legally get a copy of the operating system (or apple says so, which comes first). That NDA does cover things like talking about what's changed from build-to-build, revealing new features/functionality, and generally running your mouth. The agreement is to protect protect Apple's trade secrets, not just to prevent developers from blabbing about a product that's incomplete/unreleased.

If 10.5 and .6 were finished today and working flawlessly a developer wouldn't be able to talk about them until his/her NDA was lifted either by Apple nullifying it or by the product being released to the general public. Many NDAs continue to work after the release of a product or service by preventing those involved with the development from discussing exactly what went on during the testing/development stages. If Apple had invented a way to make the network adapter render the display 100x faster than the GPU and then removed it some time later, it is not automatic that a person who played with that feature would be allowed to talk about it.

[macssuck]

@Philip

With Platinum you mean Plastic right? Because Plastic is the official name.

585769577[/snapback]

Where did you get that information from?

[Southern Patriot]

The NDA is not lifted until the general public can legally get a copy of the operating system (or apple says so, which comes first). That NDA does cover things like talking about what's changed from build-to-build, revealing new features/functionality, and generally running your mouth. The agreement is to protect protect Apple's trade secrets, not just to prevent developers from blabbing about a product that's incomplete/unreleased.

585771568[/snapback]

Good points. I didn't really think of it that way. I still have reason to doubt people claiming to have copies of it though. If ADC members don't, then the only people who do are Apple employees, who would be in even DEEPER doodoo than an ADC member if they leaked it. Yeah, an ADC member could get sued, but an Apple employee would get fired AND sued.