You think Macs are fast?

[uniacid]

Originally posted by traksys

So choices in software is bad? Wow, you really are brainwashed aren't you.

Do you actually believe that any software not available on the Mac platform is worthless? Do you even see the lack of logic in that statement? No, you probably wont.

I have no problems with Macs, although they are a huge rip-off IMO, but to follow any company blindly is just pathetic. Must be boring to have multitudes of "yes-men" (steve).

How are they a huge rip off?

[caustiK]

How are they a huge rip off?

well i wouldn't go so far as to say *huge* - in fact eMacs are pretty reasonable. but you can't get an equivalent mac (hardware-wise) for near the same price as, say building one, usually. of course it's kinda hard to build your own pc like an iMac so it's kind of a design trade off IMO. i'm planning on getting one day even if i have to save up more, cause osx is just sweet... :) (yes, WK, i said it's sweet! :o )

[traksys]

Thats just my opinion, for me they are a ripoff.

First of all they are proprietary.

When its time for me to upgrade, I purchase a MB, memory and a processor..maybe $400 at most, and sell the old parts or save them for a system to donate. Its all about value.

Second, their current pricing for hardware is way off IMO. Cutting prices 40% would be more in line with what they offer.

I can understand paying a premium for a premium product but Macs just don't fall into that category in relation to other similarly priced systems.

They don't crash less, they arent faster, they have fewer options. Too limiting.

[unspec]

Originally posted by traksys

Thats just my opinion, for me they are a ripoff.

First of all they are proprietary.

When its time for me to upgrade, I purchase a MB, memory and a processor..maybe $400 at most, and sell the old parts or save them for a system to donate. Its all about value.

Second, their current pricing for hardware is way off IMO. Cutting prices 40% would be more in line with what they offer.

I can understand paying a premium for a premium product but Macs just don't fall into that category in relation to other similarly priced systems.

They don't crash less, they arent faster, they have fewer options. Too limiting.

Yes it is all about value. The price you will get on a second-hand x86 mobo+processor+ram is really **** poor. You will get an excellent return on the price of a Mac.

Cutting prices 40% would be more in line with what they offer.

40%? WTF? More in line with who? You just said they were proprietary. Oh I guess you must mean the other suppliers of PPC systems that run OS X.....

You are applying open market logic to a closed market. :rolleyes:

The sooner you realise thaty are not x86 PCs the better.

--

unspec

[smoke]

If you don't like the grey background in photoshop PC change it to a different color. =? Anyway I think that is a silly argument, does that change the functionality of photoshop? that is subjective because different people like different things. There are photoshop alternatives you can use. That has nothing to do with how good either computer is.

Mostly what I see here is just fighting anyway. I mean, web browsers.. there are choices on the PC too. Here are ones off the top of my head, IE, Mozilla, Netscape, Netcaptor, K-Meleon, Opera, lynx (there is a version of lynx for practially anything), a quick trip to a download site can reveal lots more: http://download.com.com/3150-2356-0.html?tag=dir

On XP you can run pretty much all the programs from NT42kXP and the 9592ME line which is pretty much billions of apps and games, without running much in the way of environments such as classic. There where only one or 2 games that didn't work on my cousins computer and I put a check on compatibility mode (which just fools them that it is running on the older versions it doesn't launch an environment).. and lo and behold, they ran.

So there are no lack of choices on the PC. Plus, you can also run an xserver like exceed xserver or cygwin and yes virginia you can run *nix apps with those. So I never really got excited over that. Not to mention you can get yourself a Linux or BSD Distro and run them natively which I bet 9 out of 10 times those programs where written on a PC with one of those distros anyway.

Plus there are native ports of *nix programs uncluding the toolkits that run them to windows such as The GIMP, GkrellM, and others... (do a little reasearch). I run those 2 programs (because they are pretty usefull) and I even have the *nix themes working on them.

So my point is that you don't need to put down the PC in order to make the Mac superior because it is not accurate at all to say that there are less choices on the PC. Now I'm not saying that there are less choices on the Mac. But really, some people ought to do some research.

[Wickedkitten Veteran]

Originally posted by caustiK

ok, wickedkitten, since you obviously didn't read my post, but just flopped it over into the "anti-Mac" category:

I LIKE MACS - Macs are cool, no PC is like Mac, those things are sweet, i wish i could afford one! (ok the last one was kinda sarcastic ;) )

what i was saying (i'll try to more clear this time) - apple said "mhz doesn't matter" because *at the time* the fastest powerpc procs rivaled the fastest x86 hardware. the simple fact that the pc had higher clock cycles didn't mean diddly squat. it's the same argument amd is using, basically. a "slower" athlon can be faster than a p4 with a higher mhz rating. same deal with g3/g4, except it's an entirely different architecture! so mhz doesn't matter - ok got all of that? (not trying to insult anyone's intelligence who already knew the above).

now to my original argument - the fastest mac you can buy *right now* - is a dual 1ghz g4 setup. correct me if i'm wrong. the fastest x86 setup you can buy would be the intel 2.53ghz p4 or the dual athlons. still good? ok. in the benchmarks (which DO matter) the Mac looses. and numbers do matter because some of those numbers represent time! Are you saying I won't notice an extra minute waiting for a video stream to render? or an extra 5? and as the streams get more complex, the waits will just get longer, and the difference more evident. maybe you won't notice it but i will. and yes a 2.53ghz g4 would beat a 2.53ghz p4. but who cares? show me where i can buy a 2.53ghz g4 will you please? the whole point of the article is fastest speed *available*. argh!

and to end - I LIKE MACS. it's just that the specified article is going for speed - nothing to do with the os even! i'm not arguing that. Macs are sweet machines, but they ain't the fastest.

why is it that pc users are always the ones that rant on and on about numbers. You aren't happy unless there's a number involved. Apple said that mhz don't matter simply for the fact that they don't. You can't just look at risc and cisc and compare the two by what number happens to be higher. Macs are faster at certain things that pc's aren't pure and simple.

Here's some numbers for you

RC5

G4 450 - 4.06 million keys per second

Pentium 4 1.6 - 2.09 million keys per second

increase the processors in the G4 and you will get 7.58 million keys per second and keep in mind thats only a 450.

If you feel like doing a bit of reading about the megahertz myth feel free to look here: http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0104/0...megahertz.shtml

also post the link to the benchmarks that you are quoting in your post.

If you don't mind of course

[Wickedkitten Veteran]

Originally posted by smoke

So my point is that you don't need to put down the PC in order to make the Mac superior because it is not accurate at all to say that there are less choices on the PC. Now I'm not saying that there are less choices on the Mac. But really, some people ought to do some research.

Just like you don't need to put down the Mac in order to make the PC superiour because it is not accurate at all to say to say that there are less choices on the Mac. Now I'm not saying that there are less choices on the PC. But really, some people ought to do some research. :rolleyes:

[smoke]

Read my post more carefully again Wickedkitten instead of jumping the gun and repeating back to me what I said to you. Show me where I put down the mac.

Maybe you aren't really listening to me, maybe you are just assuming I am anti-mac and so then you discredit everything I say. Well, I do know a thing or two and I never put down the Mac anywhere. I say both computers are good systems. Like I said before I dare anyone to show me where I put down the Mac.

Well stop assuming things. I never said there where less choices on the Mac show me where I said that. You did however give the insinuation that there are more choices on the Mac. Well, I'm here to say there are plenty of choices on the PC too. I do agree that there are plenty of choices on the Mac too.

[Wickedkitten Veteran]

Originally posted by traksys

So choices in software is bad? Wow, you really are brainwashed aren't you.

Do you actually believe that any software not available on the Mac platform is worthless? Do you even see the lack of logic in that statement? No, you probably wont.

I have no problems with Macs, although they are a huge rip-off IMO, but to follow any company blindly is just pathetic. Must be boring to have multitudes of "yes-men" (steve).

Do you remember the amount of games that came out for playstation 1? Somewhere around 4000 but out of those how many were actually worth playing?

My Point:

Just because you have a lot to choose from that doesn't mean that more than 20% of the stuff that you have to choose from is going to be any good so theres no point in going on about how much software a windows user has to select from. I've been a windows for the past 10 years almost and to say that I'm a yes-man for Jobs is absurd. I've seen more people blindly follow Gates and Ballmer to the point of bitching and ranting at people that use *nix instead of Windows, and any other browser than IE than I've seen Mac users on this board shilling for Apple.

Just remember when you make idiot statements like that you may just be insulting another pc user as well.

[Wickedkitten Veteran]

Originally posted by smoke

Read my post more carefully again Wickedkitten instead of jumping the gun and repeating back to me what I said to you. Show me where I put down the mac.

Maybe you aren't really listening to me, maybe you are just assuming I am anti-mac and so then you discredit everything I say. Well, I do know a thing or two and I never put down the Mac anywhere. I say both computers are good systems. Like I said before I dare anyone to show me where I put down the Mac.

Well stop assuming things. I never said there where less choices on the Mac show me where I said that.

bloody hell, I'm not assuming a anything. Did I mention your name anywhere in that thread? NO so quit assuming I was talking about you. I was posting that for the benefit of the people that are going on about how theres less variety for the mac so obviously pcs are better which is completely untrue from that viewpoint.

lighten up sunshine!

[smoke]

Well then don't reply to me and expect me not to reply back. Read my post carefully and don't insinuate that I put down anything because I didn't. And nowhere did you say that that was not to me. You quoted me and changed a few words around in my last sentence.

Sheesh, did you not understand what I have been saying all along? You shouldn't be responding to me and lumping others with it. Those people have completely different opinions than I do I'd appreciate it if you didn't lump me with them, thanks. They put down the mac, I am not putting down either. I'm saying BOTH are good. Ok?

Well I'm not going to "lighten up" as long as you are responding to me and not lightening up yourself.

[Guest deadzombie]

Computer users suck monkies!

[Wickedkitten Veteran]

Originally posted by smoke

Well then don't reply to me and expect me not to reply back. Read my post carefully and don't insinuate that I put down anything because I didn't. And nowhere did you say that that was not to me. You quoted me and changed a few words around in my last sentence.

Sheesh, did you not understand what I have been saying all along? You shouldn't be responding to me and lumping others with it. Those people have completely different opinions than I do I'd appreciate it if you didn't lump me with them, thanks. They put down the mac, I am not putting down either. I'm saying BOTH are good. Ok?

Well I'm not going to "lighten up" as long as you are responding to me and not lightening up yourself.

all i have to say to you is quit insinuating things that im not insinuating then hypocriting yourself by doing the same thing that you tell me not to do.

[Wickedkitten Veteran]

Originally posted by deadzombie

Computer users suck monkies!

monkeys suck computer users!

[smoke]

Originally posted by Wickedkitten

all i have to say to you is quit insinuating things that im not insinuating then hypocriting yourself by doing the same thing that you tell me not to do.

My main point was that the PC has a good selection of software too and that both systems have their positives and negatives. It doesn't seem to me like you are understanding what I am saying if you can't see that. I do not make stuff up to make either look better than the other I say *THE TRUTH*. But I guess the truth is hard to listen to is it.

You couldn't find any innacurate sayings in my posts so you just say other stuff and lump me with the Mac bashers.. Can you find anything in my posts where I said something innacurate or misleading? Maybe I can explain it to you. I gave you examples on where you could run lots of software on the PC can you tell me that what I said is not true?

[caustiK]

why is it that pc users are always the ones that rant on and on about numbers. You aren't happy unless there's a number involved. Apple said that mhz don't matter simply for the fact that they don't. You can't just look at risc and cisc and compare the two by what number happens to be higher. Macs are faster at certain things that pc's aren't pure and simple.

ARGH! look you're either not reading my posts or you're very ignorant. you just repeated what i said! i know mhz doesn't matter already - but that doesn't mean a pc or a mac is faster than the other. the benchmarks in question were the ones from the original thread poster, the one who started the whole thread! it clearly shows that (read this) the fastest AVAILABLE PCs beat the fastest AVAILABLE Mac. And the hell do you compare speed without numbers? in bunnies per second? i guess we should rewrite time without numbers!

Here's some numbers for you

RC5

G4 450 - 4.06 million keys per second

Pentium 4 1.6 - 2.09 million keys per second

increase the processors in the G4 and you will get 7.58 million keys per second and keep in mind thats only a 450.

what's that got to do with anything? you're comparing OLD HARDWARE. did you forget that the first shipping p4's sucked and were slower than the older p3's and athlons? and to even consider comparing a DUAL g4 setup to a single p4 1.6ghz in a situation like RC5 where you can almost reach the theoretical 2x performance of dual procs. try comparing dual athlons to dual g4s for something like that. even so, the only way you get anywhere is by comparing the newest stuff out or stuff that's the same price - and the mac ain't gonna win on price, that's for sure.

If you feel like doing a bit of reading about the megahertz myth feel free to look here: http://maccentral.macworld.com/news...megahertz.shtml

This article restates what i stated 2 posts back! i know that already!

also post the link to the benchmarks that you are quoting in your post.

well i thought you would've seen 'em already since they're in the first post but here ya go:

P4 2.53ghz vs. Mac dual 1ghz vs. AMD dual 2000+ (i think)

and after reading your replies to smoke, i can only believe you're simply trying to pick fights and flame wars rather than actually argue the topic!

[Chad]

Originally posted by smoke

My main point was that the PC has a good selection of software too and that both systems have their positives and negatives. It doesn't seem to me like you are understanding what I am saying if you can't see that. I do not make stuff up to make either look better than the other I say *THE TRUTH*. But I guess the truth is hard to listen to is it.

You couldn't find any innacurate sayings in my posts so you just say other stuff and lump me with the Mac bashers.. Can you find anything in my posts where I said something innacurate or misleading? Maybe I can explain it to you. I gave you examples on where you could run lots of software on the PC can you tell me that what I said is not true?

Give it up. You were the first one to attack WK. The first thing she quoted of you was just her saying your statement can be said of PC and Mac. Then you go off and say how she didn't read your posts and how she was attacking you, etc. Blah. She never said you were a Mac basher. Shes probably the one person you don't want to start a PC vs Mac debate with. Cause you won't win.

Originally posted by smoke

So my point is that you don't need to put down the PC in order to make the Mac superior because it is not accurate at all to say that there are less choices on the PC. Now I'm not saying that there are less choices on the Mac. But really, some people ought to do some research.

What exactly are you trying to say here. First you say that the pc has more choices. Then you say that the Mac doesn't have less choices. Contradicting yourself... And then you have the audacity to say WK needs to do some research.

Crimany...

[Wickedkitten Veteran]

Originally posted by smoke

My main point was that the PC has a good selection of software too and that both systems have their positives and negatives. It doesn't seem to me like you are understanding what I am saying if you can't see that. I do not make stuff up to make either look better than the other I say *THE TRUTH*. But I guess the truth is hard to listen to is it.

You couldn't find any innacurate sayings in my posts so you just say other stuff and lump me with the Mac bashers.. Can you find anything in my posts where I said something innacurate or misleading? Maybe I can explain it to you. I gave you examples on where you could run lots of software on the PC can you tell me that what I said is not true?

Are you just posting to read yourself post? Once again, I DID NOT SAY THAT YOU ARE LYING ABOUT ANYTHING COMPRENDE? NOWHERE DID I LUMP YOU IN WITH ANYONE! I HAVE REPLIED TO YOU ONCE! YOU ARE GOING ON AND ON ABOUT SOMETHING YOU HAVE OBVIOUSLY MADE UP IN YOUR HEAD! CAN I OFFENDED YOU IN ANOTHER LIFE?

IN ALL HONESTY STOP THE MADNESS AND EAT SOME CHICKEN, ANYTHING THAT WILL MAKE YOU STOP IMAGINING SLIGHT WHERE THERE IS NONE!

[Joel]

Originally posted by Wickedkitten

IN ALL HONESTY STOP THE MADNESS AND EAT SOME CHICKEN, ANYTHING THAT WILL MAKE YOU STOP IMAGINING SLIGHT WHERE THERE IS NONE!

You first.

[smoke]

To the other person, stay out of it, let WK talk for herself. Second of all, I never said that the PC had *more choices*, I simply said there are choices for it too. I gave examples on where you could run just as many if not more programs on there. I also said the Mac is a good system I never said it wasn't. If I have to say it again I will say it again, the Mac especially OSX is a terriffic system. So it's not like anyone can turn that on me because I said both are good. And nobody has pointed out anything that is innacurate in my postings just saying sh*t that is infammatory in responce. Can't I like both without someone saying that I'm contradicting myself. At least I'm open minded about both systems. Me saying that the Mac is good too does not contradict myself because I never said it sucked in the first place. Also me saying that the PC has lots of software choices too doesn't mean that I'm saying that it has *more* choices. I'm suprised that I even need to explain that.

And WK if you think that you have not said anything to me that would cause me to reply back the way I have then you need to go back and look at your posts again. At least I'm not yelling and to the the both of you. I'm probably not the one you want to get into a argument with because you cannot win. I say the truth and you cannot refute that without turning personal on me and just saying things that are flames. Again I dare you to point out any innacurate things that I said in my posting about software on the PC.

[travis_l_969]

I know very little about Mac's. I just want to know if we are comparing who has better software. Which has a better processor, or are we discussing which has a better operating system.:)

[Wickedkitten Veteran]

Originally posted by caustiK

ARGH! look you're either not reading my posts or you're very ignorant. you just repeated what i said! i know mhz doesn't matter already - but that doesn't mean a pc or a mac is faster than the other. the benchmarks in question were the ones from the original thread poster, the one who started the whole thread! it clearly shows that (read this) the fastest AVAILABLE PCs beat the fastest AVAILABLE Mac. And the hell do you compare speed without numbers? in bunnies per second? i guess we should rewrite time without numbers!

and to think for a minute there I couldnt be arsed replying to you.

Fastest available pc workstation vs fastest available mac desktop which the chipset happens to be 8 months old in while the Intel has been tweaked in the past 8 months.

5 words - **** off with that bull****.

what's that got to do with anything? you're comparing OLD HARDWARE. did you forget that the first shipping p4's sucked and were slower than the older p3's and athlons? and to even consider comparing a DUAL g4 setup to a single p4 1.6ghz in a situation like RC5 where you can almost reach the theoretical 2x performance of dual procs. try comparing dual athlons to dual g4s for something like that. even so, the only way you get anywhere is by comparing the newest stuff out or stuff that's the same price - and the mac ain't gonna win on price, that's for sure.

You're comparing old hardware as well you know? The 1ghz processor didn't come come out yesterday. Hypocrite. Btw it wasn't a first shipping P4. PPC is just better at crunching numbers than x86. Go to distributed.net and look it up if you want.

and btw the mac wont win on price? look at the prices on the systems quoted in the links below

Finally, the Dell Precision Workstation 340 as tested currently retails for $2875, the Mac dual G4 for $3000, and the BOXX dual Athlon 2000+MP for $4000

Dell Precision Workstation 340 =2.53 Xeon chip. Oh you didn't think to include that interesting tidbit did you?

Athlon 2000+MP = Amd Server chip. Once again you didn't seem fit to mention the fact that you are comparing a server class chip to a desktop did you? If anything they should have used an xserve for the benchmarks since it has the newer more optimised 1ghz chipset in it but since they are trying to please pc users it doesn't matter.

This article restates what i stated 2 posts back! i know that already!

well i thought you would've seen 'em already since they're in the first post but here ya go:

P4 2.53ghz vs. Mac dual 1ghz vs. AMD dual 2000+ (i think)

and after reading your replies to smoke, i can only believe you're simply trying to pick fights and flame wars rather than actually argue the topic!

think what you like but try not to don't make a mockery of yourself by preaching on about about a skewed benchmark like it's gospel, and btw I have 2 questions for you

Which is faster?

A Pentium 4 at 2.5 GHz or an Itanium at 800MHz?

A MIPS R5000sc at 200 MHz or a MIPS R8000sc at 75 MHz?

[Chad]

Originally posted by smoke

And nobody has pointed out anything that is innacurate in my postings just saying sh*t that is infammatory in responce.

NO ONE SAID YOU WERE WRONG!!! No one has said anything inflammatory toward you. The one quote you stated

Originally posted by smoke

So my point is that you don't need to put down the PC in order to make the Mac superior because it is not accurate at all to say that there are less choices on the PC. Now I'm not saying that there are less choices on the Mac. But really, some people ought to do some research.

Can be said the exact same way, but switch pc and mac. And thats exactly what WK said to you. Nothing inflammatory.,...never said you were wrong. How could you say someone is wrong, when they ride the middle of the road. In that post, first you say the PC has more choices. and then the very next sentence "Now I'm not saying that there are less choices on the Mac", you must be saying the Mac has more choices...what else could that mean?

Its like me saying "a ford truck has more power than a chevy. But I'm not saying a Chevy is less powerful". Pretty easy to sit on the fence....but of course by sitting on the fence, you will always be wrong.

NO ONE HAS SAID ANYTHING BAD ABOUT YOU!! Absolutely no one has disagreed with what you said. Are your posts some cool color on your monitor?

Originally posted by travis_l_969

I know very little about Mac's. I just want to know if we are comparing who has better software. Which has a better processor, or are we discussing which has a better operating system.

Apparently it has become smokes personal crusade to raise his post count above 50. It started out as a speed comparison. I highly doubt it will get back to that

[Wickedkitten Veteran]

Originally posted by smoke

I'm probably not the one you want to get into a argument with because you cannot win.

Yes we tend to notice that from the fact you seem to be arguing with yourself at the moment

I dare you to point out any innacurate things that I said in my posting about software on the PC.

I dare you to point out where anyone has said that you have said inaccurate things about you posting about software for the pc.

[smoke]

It's not my crusade to raise my posts over 50 that never even entered my mind. I don't care how many posts I have in here, I just post when I want to. Why are you even aruguing against me anyway. Well I'm not sitting on the fence saying both are good. This is not an either or kind of thing. As in either you like one or either you like the other. I am not wrong saying both are good. But to someone who is heavily biased to one system then I guess I'm wrong in their mind so to all the biased people I guess I'm wrong.

And the thing about it could be switched, wasn't that my point to begin with? Why are you continuing to argue with me about that. Do I have to spell everything out so that people won't be saying things like that? Ok in the future I will spell everything out so that there are no doubts in your head about what I am saying.

Anyway I'm agreeing here with my friend who says that things like this are just excuses to start fights. Just like Toyota versus Chevy versus Ford. Maybe I was suckered into getting into this fight but I just had to say that the PC has choices too. If you choose to read that as there being more choices because you add up the number of choices in what I posted and somehow see that as more then what can I do.

And no I'm not arguing with myself I'm talking to *YOU*, ok? And that other person because he chose to get into this.