One finger salute to Vista

[Robgig1088]

Nobody gives a flying **** about Acid2. Sorry, you lose.

Right, well when web browsers refuse to display content correctly, hindering the advancement of technology, it does matter. Like i said, web designers have to work around IE7's flaws. just because they dont FEEL like it? why NOT make it compatible?

[markwolfe Veteran]

Right, well when web browsers refuse to display content correctly, hindering the advancement of technology, it does matter. Like i said, web designers have to work around IE7's flaws. just because they dont FEEL like it? why NOT make it compatible?

Now, I think that ACID is nice, but it is quite a stretch to say that browsers that fail ACID have display problems. Many of the things that ACID tests are pretty obscure and picky specification issues, not used on any other web page that *I* have ever seen.

[Robgig1088]

Now, I think that ACID is nice, but it is quite a stretch to say that browsers that fail ACID have display problems. Many of the things that ACID tests are pretty obscure and picky specification issues, not used on any other web page that *I* have ever seen.

perhaps, but I know that i have had to work around them before and its quite annoying. (and maybe the reason you dont seethem is because people dont post sites that arent IE compatible ;) ). Idk it just seems like the most widely used browser should be compatible with the standard benchmark, thats all...

[JorgeIvan]

Vistas is just a wack >_<

[Brandon Live Veteran]

Right, well when web browsers refuse to display content correctly, hindering the advancement of technology, it does matter. Like i said, web designers have to work around IE7's flaws. just because they dont FEEL like it? why NOT make it compatible?

Uhh, umm... Acid 2 isn't a real standards compliance test - and last I checked Firefox 2.0 fails it as well.

I do some web design work and I've hit Firefox oddities just as much as IE oddities (especially before FF 2.0). And these days with IE 7 I find that they're both pretty much even when it comes to standards compliance. Pretty much every really annoying issue in IE6 is gone.

[neostyle]

Sorry, you've been misinformed. We did not release the beta...

but as often you (=ms) released beta quality ........

[AMDMEFX-55]

This crap is still going on?

[bobbba]

Yawn, another boring rant at vista, how is this a "Vista Support" topic? I can understand that some people don't like it but it is too late now, Vista has reached RTM and it is what it is.

Biggest whine from people using it seems to be from those who have forgotten that MS don't publish the drivers or the 3rd party apps. The fact is that there are already many people using Vista RTM with little or no problems. The number of these people will continue to increase when the hw manufacturers and app publishers catch up.

If you don't like it, start evaluating your other OS options and give the whining a rest.

[AltecXP]

That is exactly what I believed. I blamed my "old" PC - and AMD X2 system built on nForce4 for the different problems I was seeing. So I broke the bank. I went out and bought an Intel Core 2 Duo processor, 4GB of RAM, Serial ATAII Hard Discs and more. At the end of it all I found that Vista did run most of my hardware out of the box but drivers showed instabilities, Vista seemed to run programs mostly OK but games are slower, memory usage is bordering on the ridiculous - even on a 4GB system and the operating system itself feels flimsy and not as solid or stable as Windows XP.

Maybe you should just stop building systems because you seem to suck at it. I built the rig in my sig and I have YET to have ANY issues what so ever that was due to Vista and not some other program that was designed for 2000. Same with my laptop, and my old laptop, and my moms desktop......maybe you just need to learn how to use a PC before you blame software for the USERS lack of knowledge.

Hell the OS isn't even publicly available yet a lot happens in 2 months, such as new drivers and a few compatibility updates. If you think Linux is better with hardware or that OSX is any more bug free then you are living in a dream world, and XP was a wreck until SP2 and Vista is far better then that.

[Robgig1088]

Maybe you should just stop building systems because you seem to suck at it. I built the rig in my sig and I have YET to have ANY issues what so ever that was due to Vista and not some other program that was designed for 2000. Same with my laptop, and my old laptop, and my moms desktop......maybe you just need to learn how to use a PC before you blame software for the USERS lack of knowledge.

Hell the OS isn't even publicly available yet a lot happens in 2 months, such as new drivers and a few compatibility updates. If you think Linux is better with hardware or that OSX is any more bug free then you are living in a dream world, and XP was a wreck until SP2 and Vista is far better then that.

Hey man chill. Perhaps its an inter-hardware or driver slowdown that couldn't be foreseen. Maybe its his harddrive thats too low of an rpm ;)

[xpablo]

Well Vista isn't officially released yet, I think we should all wait until Mid February to give Vista a full review, At this point MS has a few issues to fix in Vista, Drivers is one of my major bitches with Vista.

Transfering files between pc's on my lan with Vista is my 2nd major bitch w/ this OS.

I think these will be sorted out in time.

[Brandon Live Veteran]

Hey man chill. Perhaps its an inter-hardware or driver slowdown that couldn't be foreseen. Maybe its his harddrive thats too low of an rpm ;)

I don't know... if my Mac Mini with 512MB of memory and a 5400RPM drive can run Vista with Aero perfectly well, he must have been doing something pretty wrong (or he's just making it up).

[TruckWEB]

I don't know... if my Mac Mini with 512MB of memory and a 5400RPM drive can run Vista with Aero perfectly well, he must have been doing something pretty wrong (or he's just making it up).

You're realy the Best Vista Fanboy I've ever seen. You did drink the KoolAid...

Vista is far from perfect and it does consume more ressource than XP on a clean install. For the same level of performance, you need to have more memory with Vista, a good DirextX 9 video card for great Aero Glass performance.

And even with all that, Vista does seem slow on many simple task, including file copy, network access, SAMBA access to non-windows machine. And YES, those where open bugs.... Beta tester here.

And we all need to wait until the end of january in hope that all the compagny will release good Vista drivers.

So don't fool yourself or anybody else. Vista right now is not the Ultimate OS... It will need a SP1 in order to get better. Just like XP was better with SP1 and SP2.

[notuptome2004]

of course Brandon live seems like the perfect fanboy. that is because he works on the vista team at microsoft and remeber before he worked ther he was just a reguler debater like the rest of us and hada differant view possably on some things.

[viciv]

vista's not as stable as winxp so far.. sigh :(

[1Frothy]

vista's not as stable as winxp so far.. sigh :(

Just looked at the reliability report on Vista - 6.2 / 10 that's pretty disappointing. Most issues are services (Windows Vista Services) and Internet Explorer plus DVD Movie Maker stop working or "Vista" drivers from Intel for the DG965.

I'm sorry but that's pretty damn poor.

You know what Windows XP, on the same computer did not have any issues in the Even Viewer. None. None at all. Seriously, Windows Vista just doesn't compete with Windows XP for reliability or stability. Performance is another issue.

[bobbba]

Just looked at the reliability report on Vista - 6.2 / 10 that's pretty disappointing. Most issues are services (Windows Vista Services) and Internet Explorer plus DVD Movie Maker stop working or "Vista" drivers from Intel for the DG965.

I'm sorry but that's pretty damn poor.

You know what Windows XP, on the same computer did not have any issues in the Even Viewer. None. None at all. Seriously, Windows Vista just doesn't compete with Windows XP for reliability or stability. Performance is another issue.

How long has XP had to become reliable and stable? 5 very long years.

Was XP perfect when it was released? :no:

[1Frothy]

No XP before SP1 was about as reliable and usable as Vista is now - for me. :( And that quite honestly sucks.

I wish I didn't have to wait 5 years after an operating system release for Microsoft to get their **** together.

[bobbba]

No XP before SP1 was about as reliable and usable as Vista is now - for me. :( And that quite honestly sucks.

I wish I didn't have to wait 5 years after an operating system release for Microsoft to get their **** together.

So if pre SP1 XP was as bad as pre SP1 Vista why are you disappointed??? Doesn't that imply that MS have done at least as good a job with vista as they did with XP?

Vista works fine for me, I've had a few issues with drivers and 3rd party apps that have not worked very well with it but I don't think for a second that this is MS's fault.

Com surrogate problems - DivX, Nero caused?

IE problems - plugins like Flash caused?

Sound, video driver problems - ATI, Nvidia, Creative

Slow file copy perf - SATA drivers, wifi drivers or just because of greater security?

The majority of this bitching about Vista should be directed at the app developers and hardware manufacturers. Vista has been in beta more than long enough to give them opportunity to get their act together and produce vista compatible products.

.

[PF Prophet]

i know this topic is old but i had to respond after a buddy linked me to it when he was researching vista.

Thanks, Mark :)

Just to be clear: I was a Neowin member for years before I came to work at MS... so it's not like I joined the forum to sing its praises or anything like that. I've always enjoyed most of the discussions that happen on these forums and while I may have a somewhat different perspective now I don't think it's made my contributions any less reasonable. I don't hide the fact that I work at Microsoft (on Windows no less), but I'm not going to go around shouting about it. I post here on my own time and absolutely nothing I say represents Microsoft's views, policies, opinions, or anything else. At the same time, I find that staying in touch with users (especially the power users / enthusiasts) is extremely important and helps me personally stay grounded.

Every single person on my team cares about our users. It might surprise you, but we really don't sit around dreaming up ways to screw people, take away your freedoms, and undermine competitors through nefarious means. We are users in the end just like you are. Do you really think we're going to try and build something that we ourselves wouldn't want to use? In fact most of us are so passionate about making the best, coolest product that even when we go out for beer and wings or have a team poker night some of us will inevitably be talking about cool ideas we have for new features or projects. That's one of the things I love most about my job - how focused we are on building cool experiences, and how it doesn't stop when you leave the office.

thats not exectly true is it, you work for ms, and on their products, as such you have a pro MS view of the world, and thats normal, your only human, they pay you, they make your life better then it was b4 so you have good reasion to feel good about them.

it cant be helped but to try and say your unbias is like me saying im unbias about amd vs intel after the p4 bs, or that im unbias aboutt ati(amd) vs nvidia after the fx line and early 6seirse driver problems.

i can say it, its not true but i can still say it......

tand yes i belive that some of the team probbly want to make a kool and good product, but i also KNOW that you have to do what those above you deside, as such your forced to do stuff like vista's INSAIN DRM, i tested vista for 2 months, diffren version, and what i found was not only unstable and sluggish performance even on good hardware but also that some of the DRM fetures would kickin and mess with my video playback and audio playback, this is with both ms and 3rd party drivers, i do blame ms for this, because they/you are the ones who put this os out, i use 2k in beta as well( my highschool comp teacher was in the beta but didnt have time to acctualy test for it properly so she let me) and even pre rc versions where more reliable and had easyer driver support(nvidia b4 they started to suck)

the fact is that vista is bloated,slow, unreliable and full of unwanted DRM that effects everbody who uses it, and also effects hardware by forcing hardware vendors to jump thru alot of hoops to support hd content, i work with somebody (our own buisness) who works for a company that makes soundcards using cmedia and via audio chips, they have nothing but bad to say about trying to make vista drivers, this is because of how vista deals with hardware and DRM, cmi has been working to make good drivers for the 8738 and up for some time, but has had problems not due to incompatance but due to the fact that its so much more work to make drivers for then nt5.

in the end he said he wishes that hardware vendors had banded togather and refused to support vistas DRM design.

i know some of what gunn said was inaccuret, i also know people who work for ms, but as much as i know that some was inacuret i know that some wasnt, and its the true parts that scare me and make me think moving from 2003 to linux will be my next move......

Complaining about Vista at this point is retarded. Does anyone remember how bad Windows XP or Windows 2000 were when they were first released? Post bug reports and press your hardware manufacturers for new drivers. Don't post about them on message boards hoping MS will see the bugs. All this does is get a bunch of other people to pick up sticks and torches and stampeed Microsoft's gates.

ok, this is funny to me, your comparing xp and 2k with vista, first off i was beta testing 2k as stated above, and i had a few querks but driver support was far better under 2k then xp64 or vista, and for xp drivers, HAHAHA just use 2k drivers, thats all i had to do to get all my hardware working with xp when i got it.

vista will eventuly get some working drivers, but by then it will be to late for gamers and enthusists, and they are the ones who will be buying vista retail not ur avrage joe blow who can barly turn on a pc.

i work at/run a computer shop, and i have already desided that vista isnt going to be supported till/if its ready, same as i did with xp pre sp1, it was to buggy to try and support, so i just explained that to my clients and they where as a whole quite happy to have 2kpro as it could run the same apps but run them faster with less bloat and far less bugs.

no a genral statment about this whole thing, ie7 is crap, vista till sp1 or later will be crap, ms had made this new os a nightmare to deal with, after reading the EULA I really dont see how im leigaly allowed to fix computers running vista since trouble shootings not allowed, under xp i constantly have to work around querks of xp xp2, this is just part of my chosen field of work, 2k well i have less problems with it, but more people who have gone back to it(mostly due to the whol sp2 breaks software and drivers thing)

oh and you really want to see a shocking boost in perf, if you have a pc without HyperThreding install windows 2000 (sp5 slipstreamed, yes sp5, google it, its sp4 with all current updates added) on it and compare it with xp or vista, it will be faster and less buggy out of the box. also it has compat tool needed to run older apps on the cd under support, its not as pretty as the right click compat tool in xp but its acctualy more powerfull in some ways(more options to get old lagacy apps working)

i have rammbled a bit here, but my feeling is if vista dosnt improve and improve fast its gonna endup being another windows ME....

as my buddy says about the ps3, "its made of fail and expence" that pretty much sums up how i feel about vista.

that having been said, if worse comes to worse and ppl need a non-xp os newer then xp but less buggy then vista, windows 2003 server(web) licences can be found for cheap these days ;) (i have 4 for each 2003 edition i got for cheap, also got sbs with a voucher from ms.....well worth the price i payed :p )

[PF Prophet]

forgot i would also like to point out that VectorLinux 5.1.2 soho live(installed) with enlightnment GUI looks better then vista and runs faster on anyhardware, infact its running on my p233mmx laptop with 208mb ram and a 5.2gb hdd(over 2/3 of the hdd free even with mass apps installed)

the gui is NOT HARDWARE ACCELERATED yet looks better and runs faster then vista with areo+glass.......how can that be possable if vistas team is so good and wants to make the user experiance go great? why is an open sorce project thats TOTALY FREE kicking ms arse?

[»X«]

Just as you start to make sense you use phrases like "vista sucks" and "linux kicking MS arse". I do get what your saying but its the way you say it.

[Moonwolf]

When I did the beta testing of Windows XP. I can assure you there was a lot of beta testers loved it. Of course there is bugs in it and well even today there is. But it is the best windows they ever made at this point. I never heard people saying I hate this and I am going back to Windows 98. If some ever did, they basically did not know much about computers.

I tested Vista and at first I was kind of shock, all I did really see was well skin change than anything else. But gave it a chance. Time pass and I just could not grasp to love or even like Vista, I felt like when I was testing Windows ME, remember that OS? Man did Microsoft ever laugh making money on that most pathetic windows ever made. That was the scariest window I ever beta tested also.

The way I see this, Vista is more anything a skin change that take more money from your pocket. New hardware to support it and the cost to buy the new Vista of course.... all that can start from 500 dollars to up...depending of course in some countries.

Is it worth it? NO.

You want to have really stable windows? Get or Stick with Windows XP SP2. I can assure you, you wont be disappointed.

You wish to have a different feel of windows, wish it were like Vista? GET some skin out there, there are a lot of companies that make Themes and skin and there is even a vista package that is someone that actually makes one. You can even get the vista sidebar with the clock, the start menu look alike. Wallpapers, icons.........you pretty much know what I am saying.

Vista just isn?t worth it or even to talk about. To early, no drivers, not much software supports it and the configurations of that OS just ridiculous.

Stick with Window?s Xp has your main and play with Vista for fun, after a week you will get bored.

[Deactivated Account]

I'm going to say it again as i did in an other post...

the only way for Vista to get better is that everyone uses it and reports back to Microsoft about the good & the bads.. then when Vista SP1 comes out then the issues that was once there will not be there..

[PF Prophet]

Just as you start to make sense you use phrases like "vista sucks" and "linux kicking MS arse". I do get what your saying but its the way you say it.

well it sucks how else can you put it, it brings nothing new that anybody needs/wants, sure its got a new gui, u can get the same thing from windowblinds

http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/OS-Enh...tion-Pack.shtml

tryed it, with full wb installed it looks like vista but FAR lighter on resorces, oh yeah and none of that pesky drm crawling up ur arse!!!

dl0711, to do that i would need to be willing to live with my 3gz amd chip with 3gb ram and an x1900xtx being slow and unresponcive oh yeah and UNSTABLE, no thanks, ms should test more b4 they put an os out on the market, make sure all their ducks are in a row.

and linux isnt my os of choice, look at my siggy, dont call me a linux fan or lover, im not, but in this case they are kicking ms arse, better hardware support, less security problems, no DRM, oh yeah and you can run vector SoHo 5.1.2 on pretty much any system currently in use, my 233mmx laptop+208mb ram+4mb allied video card+5.2gb hdd are faster then a 3gz p4 with 1.5gb ram,sata2hdd,256mb x600pro video, thats INSAIN!!!!!

and i have seen alot of people in the past go back to 98 or 2k from xp, because xp is slower and in many cases far more work to deal with, xp is 2k with bloat, vista is xp with DRM and even more bloat.

run full windowblinds+that transformation kit and get vista feel without the insain cost or bloat!!!!