Why Microsoft isnt Bashing Apple?

[+LogicalApex MVC]

That is two completely different things. Damn, I wonder sometimes if you even read the stuff you write.

They are different how? Carefully and factually explain the differences between the two senarios...

Also, look at Apple's 10K for some help on where Apple says their money comes from...

http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/...PL_10K_FY07.pdf

Page 42 is a nice place to start ;) They claim "Software, service, and other sales" are only around 6% of their sales!

[C_Guy]

Back to the original question...

Microsoft doesn't resort to Apple's level because they are upholding their image. While a few of Apple's ads have accurate messages in them, many do not, and they are conveyed in a very childish and condescending way.

Contrast this to Microsoft's Get The Facts campaign which was a presentation of factual case studies and information and not childish "bashing".

It's one thing to promote your own product and compare it to your competitor's. It's quite another to try to sell your own by bashing your competition rather than highlighting your product's advantages.

[phantasmorph]

^ And video games turn women on how?

I don't see how paying $2000 dollars for a computer for games is good for your wallet... or your health.

Video games don't. Neither do Macs. The only person that ever made a positive comment about my old iBook was a gay male flight attendant, when he said "sweet laptop" as he sashayed back up the aisle. Which I suppose makes sense, since most of my co-workers and friends said the iBook seemed a bit..."fruity", ironically enough. 'Fruits for fruits'...could make an interesting ad campaign...

But I can see how a shallow mac zealot would think that the world revolves around money and material objects, so it's ok. It's just your nature. :)

[Cormier6083]

Oh and you said you would buy a pc if I found one that was a better deal than buying a mac, so buy away.

But it's not a better deal than the Mac. The Mac comes with all of the stuff I need. I much rather suffer a few seconds to open a document than not have all the stuff I need and sit through the hassle of Windows.

^What are you trying to prove by saying a gay person liked your laptop?

Which would a woman rather see? Someone doing business on a computer or living at a computer playing a video game? Not every single one in the 90% eco-sphere likes to play video games. The world doesn't just run off of video games.

and what exactly do you mean that you can see how a "shallow mac zealot would think that the world revolves around money and material objects".

Edited November 28, 2007 by Cormier6083

[PricklyPoo]

^ And video games turn women on how?

I don't see how paying $2000 dollars for a computer for games is good for your wallet... or your health.

Well you must have been proven wrong since now your trying to change the subject. And considering the pc I found is cheaper than a mac, your the one wasting extra money for a computer.

[sundayx Veteran]

Why Microsoft isn't bashing Apple? Cause all Microsoft knows about Vista is "Wow!".

Just joking, cause they don't need to.

By the way whiners, have you seen this? http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hg4dHgerE7M

Discuss!

[PricklyPoo]

Why Microsoft isn't bashing Apple? Cause all Microsoft knows about Vista is "Wow!".

Just joking, cause they don't need to.

By the way whiners, have you seen this? http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hg4dHgerE7M

Discuss!

Wow that is straight on bashing :p

Imagine if that was a mac vs pc commercial...someone stepping on a mac or pc to reach high enough on a shelf to get the other brand. :p

[phantasmorph]

But it's not a better deal than the Mac. The Mac comes with all of the stuff I need. I much rather suffer a few seconds to open a document than not have all the stuff I need and sit through the hassle of Windows.

^What are you trying to prove by saying a gay person liked your laptop?

Which would a woman rather see? Someone doing business on a computer or living at a computer playing a video game? Not every single one in the 90% eco-sphere likes to play video games. The world doesn't just run off of video games.

and what exactly do you mean that you can see how a "shallow mac zealot would think that the world revolves around money and material objects".

Just curious, but how old are you?

[Cormier6083]

Well you must have been proven wrong since now your trying to change the subject. And considering the pc I found is cheaper than a mac, your the one wasting extra money for a computer.

FYI, Mr.IKnowEverythingAndTheOnlyWayToGetAheadInMyLifeIsToePwnPeople, I stated that BEFORE you posted your quick-witted comment.

And I didn't call it a waste. That 2000 dollar computer could used for better things than games.

Edited November 28, 2007 by Cormier6083

[phantasmorph]

FYI, Mr.IKnowEverythingAndTheOnlyWayToGetAheadInMyLifeIsToePwnPeople, I stated that BEFORE you posted your quick-witted comment.

And I didn't call it a waste. That 2000 dollar computer could used for better things than games.

Like what? Arguing with strangers over the internet? Good plan. :rolleyes:

[seta-san]

Okay. lets get things straight. Most the ads about vista has been either blantantly true, or at least true to many people. Their other ads simply aren't fair though since microsoft has no say in the hardware being released, little say in their drivers, and no say in the crapware being bundled with their OS. Apple controls all hardware and OS productions. What ever else is put on it is the customers buisness. Windows is not an OS for people who don't know how to use a computer. Take my friend, he obtained a hand-me-down computer from a friend with no OS on it. I put linux on which should have sufficed... And it worked, it worked great. Then he NEEDED to run this special music software which called for windows. I put on windows 2k, i updated it, installed avast antivirus, and put komodo firewall on. I set up everything securely. Two weeks down. Due to his own retardation downloading off of limewire and going on less than trustworthy porn sites he has more adware,spyware, and viruses then i've ever seen. I've NEVER had a virus i didn't intentually download. You can't fix retardation. You can only put a retarded on a platform that isn't compatible.

[Mordkanin]

Most the ads about vista has been either blantantly true, or at least true to many people

There are millions of people for whom none of them have been true. There's this thing called a "vocal minority". You'll probably never hear a single peep from the millions of average people using it without issues (Except for me, because I'm on neowin.) But those few that do, you can bet they'll complain.

Edited November 29, 2007 by MioTheGreat

[evo_spook]

Back to the original question...

Microsoft doesn't resort to Apple's level because they are upholding their image. While a few of Apple's ads have accurate messages in them, many do not, and they are conveyed in a very childish and condescending way.

Contrast this to Microsoft's Get The Facts campaign which was a presentation of factual case studies and information and not childish "bashing".

It's one thing to promote your own product and compare it to your competitor's. It's quite another to try to sell your own by bashing your competition rather than highlighting your product's advantages.

Did you sleep through MS Linux bashing and lying stage?

Its one thing to claim that MS doesn't resort to apples level, another thing to pass it off as truth which has being pointed out earlier with links is certainly not true.

[Cormier6083]

Okay. lets get things straight. Most the ads about vista has been either blantantly true, or at least true to many people. Their other ads simply aren't fair though since microsoft has no say in the hardware being released, little say in their drivers, and no say in the crapware being bundled with their OS. Apple controls all hardware and OS productions. What ever else is put on it is the customers buisness. Windows is not an OS for people who don't know how to use a computer. Take my friend, he obtained a hand-me-down computer from a friend with no OS on it. I put linux on which should have sufficed... And it worked, it worked great. Then he NEEDED to run this special music software which called for windows. I put on windows 2k, i updated it, installed avast antivirus, and put komodo firewall on. I set up everything securely. Two weeks down. Due to his own retardation downloading off of limewire and going on less than trustworthy porn sites he has more adware,spyware, and viruses then i've ever seen. I've NEVER had a virus i didn't intentually download. You can't fix retardation. You can only put a retarded on a platform that isn't compatible.

Well I suppose why most of these commercials are pointed twords consumers.

The problem is that inexperienced computer users see these commercials and examine it in closer detail, where as a basic computer user doesn't know the difference.

[phantasmorph]

Did you sleep through MS Linux bashing and lying stage?

Its one thing to claim that MS doesn't resort to apples level, another thing to pass it off as truth which has being pointed out earlier with links is certainly not true.

Yes, I remember all the commercials Microsoft did with a actor posing as a PC, and an unwashed, badly dressed actor posing as a Linux system...

I mean, as long as we're sticking with stereotypes here...

[PricklyPoo]

Video games don't. Neither do Macs. The only person that ever made a positive comment about my old iBook was a gay male flight attendant, when he said "sweet laptop" as he sashayed back up the aisle.

Lol he didn't just walk....He sashayed. :laugh:

[Joel]

Bottom line; Apple says nothing that makes any sense about their machines, and instead rely on making you look one way while they jerk you off for their money with the other. They're so specific about Vista's flaws, as an example, while glossing over what should be their selling point, their features. He literally says, "Macs have great features, while Vista's users are downgrading back to XP in droves, waiting for Service Packs." He spends more time talking about Vista than Macs. That's just sad advertising. Even more sadly, people actually buy into it. :no:

[Cormier6083]

Yet those who do buy into it are very content with their purchase.

[evo_spook]

Yes, I remember all the commercials Microsoft did with a actor posing as a PC, and an unwashed, badly dressed actor posing as a Linux system...

I mean, as long as we're sticking with stereotypes here...

So.. I take you are denying that they are put forward a campaign to discredit Linux?

[phantasmorph]

So.. I take you are denying that they are put forward a campaign to discredit Linux?

I'm denying nothing of the sort. But outside of the tech community and people already "in the know", who has even heard about that campaign? Putting crap on the Microsoft website, which I daresay most people only go to for updates and to download the occasional craplet, is a far cry from pumping out commercials on Mtv that openly slam Linux.

Do you honestly think that anyone visiting the Microsoft website was in the slightest bit influenced by that campaign? The only reason I even heard about it was from people frothing at the mouth over at Slashdot. If not for that, I've have never heard about it, nor cared.

[evo_spook]

Bottom line; Apple says nothing that makes any sense about their machines, and instead rely on making you look one way while they jerk you off for their money with the other. They're so specific about Vista's flaws, as an example, while glossing over what should be their selling point, their features. He literally says, "Macs have great features, while Vista's users are downgrading back to XP in droves, waiting for Service Packs." He spends more time talking about Vista than Macs. That's just sad advertising. Even more sadly, people actually buy into it. :no:

Each to their own. I reading this with my Xp laptop cause I'm doing some ASP learning, I prefer my Mac running Leopard but they both have good and bad points. I don't see then need to degerate people who want to use what they want to.

I'm denying nothing of the sort. But outside of the tech community and people already "in the know", who has even heard about that campaign? Putting crap on the Microsoft website, which I daresay most people only go to for updates and to download the occasional craplet, is a far cry from pumping out commercials on Mtv that openly slam Linux.

And how does that make MS better or absolve them of any blame? You could say that by using fud instead of Humour, MS is actually worse then Apple.

[seta-san]

most "consumers" for vista or any other OS bought them on premade computers. Not computers that they made themselves or upgrade editions. Vista has, and continues to have many issues. Many of them have to do with drivers which are normally outside of microsoft's scope of support. Apple controls the hardware on the mac platform and thus doesn't need to worry about incompatibilty or drivers very much.

Me.. i bought vista upgrade x64. Never a single problem. A couple of my friends... NOTHING BUT PROBLEMS. it's hit or miss right now. It's unfortunate. I can't wait until SP1 comes out so i can make a slipstream disc and test it on my friends computer.

So lets not focus on the content of apple's commercials. Lets just focus on the the intent and subtle( and not so subtle) messages they are trying to tell about their own product and microsofts.

There are millions of people for whom none of them have been true. There's this thing called a "vocal minority". You'll probably never hear a single peep from the millions of average people using it without issues (Except for me, because I'm on neowin.) But those few that do, you can bet they'll complain.

[sundayx Veteran]

This thread makes me sad. Let's just say, no drivers, no registry = HAPPY ok.

[mrt2]

Well you're wrong there. First off, you buy those things as an option on a Windows box from Dell and it comes with the OS from Apple. Apple isn't a hardware company, they are a software company. Steve Jobs has said this plenty of times, people, even Apple fanboys ignore him though.

Windows Vista Home Premium - $219.99 (Newegg)

Mac OS X Leopard - $109.99 (Newegg)

Better deal seems like Leopard, which comes with so much right out of the box. And it just works.

This is such a dense paragraph LOL. Apple isn't a hardware company? Hmm... Does Apple sale Apple branded hardware? Yes they do. Therefore by definition no matter how you or they want to clasify themselves they are a hardware company. Direct quote from Steve Jobs "If you are serious about software, you make your own hardware and that's what we do, because we are serious about the Macs" Right there he says he makes his own hardware... THEREFORE they are a hardware company as well as a software company. The ads that say Apple works right out of the box and yada yada yada <insert propaganda here> is comparing apples and oranges. They are comparing a hardware and software solution to just an OS manufacturer. Your syntax even shows how biased and therefore ignorant your thought process is...

The reason I say that is first off you don't buy a 'windows box' you buy a 'dell box' or 'HP box' etc... And then you choose whether or not you want windows on it or linux or any other SOFTWARE those respective companies offer. And when you say QUOTE: "you buy those things as an option on a Windows box from Dell and it comes with the OS from Apple." That's also incorrect... those 'options' don't come with the OS from Apple. They come with the COMPUTER you purchase from them. You have it backwards. The correct syntax for what you're saying should be the 'Apple OS comes with the Apple computer you purchase'... not the other way around. Those same things that come all in one with an Apple computer are options on other pc's... but they aren't 'windows options' they are Dell options or HP options. So your real argument is that Dell/HP/Gateway sales pc's and options but Apple sales pc's with everything you need. And that argument right there has nothing to do with Microsoft or Windows.

Also if you want to be accurate and realistic to your price points for better value that you listed above... Add about $2,000 to that Leopard price, as you cannot buy Leopard and use it alone without buying an Apple computer (legally anyway). But you can buy vista and use it on a $300 Dell, HP, Gateway etc... PC... so hmm... Let's try this again.

Mac OS X Leopard - $109.99 (Newegg) + The computer to actually run it on $1999 (Apple.com)

OS X is a great OS and I'm not saying it's not, but don't say half truths and slanted, formed and altered facts just to prove a point. It makes you sound like a fanboy and thus removes all credibility from your statements. I like OS X and I like Vista. I haven't had any of the issues with Vista that everyone is claiming to have. Then again I've been using Pc's since windows 95 and I do this for a living so I have the ability to use the OS the way it was designed to be used and I know what I'm doing. I think Apple does a good job at making there OS more stupid proof and their design is top notch when it comes to the look of their computers as well as the desktop environment so I appreciate those things. But fact of the matter is there are some things you just need a windows PC to do, and vice versa for the Mac. People who limit themselves because it's trendy to trash MS are just sheep and well... ignorant. On the same hand people who just hate apple because they are apple... well... are morons. There are good and bad things about both OS's and even a lot of the 'bad things' or things people complain about aren't really things that are 'broken' but things that are done in ways that they disagree with... I garuntee if you took something like a feature that people complained about in any OS and took a poll there would be just as many people that liked how that same feature works... and if you changed it to please the people on the other side of the fence the number of people who like or disliked wouldn't change just which people fall into those categories would change.

Edited November 29, 2007 by mrt2

[ObiWanToby]

Those new Apple commercials centered around Vista anger me, a few of my friends agree, and other ask me if they are true (I am the go to computer advice guy, as I'm sure most of neowin is). It is annoying, they stretch the truth. Vista games for me, Vista runs Autodesk Inventor for me, it starts fast for me, it goes to sleep instantly (wake up is kinda slow ~10 seconds)...Microsoft has to climb over the hurdles and beat the bad rumors about their OS. If someone is already using XP, I don't think they should upgrade, but they're building a new PC, with new hardware, they should get Vista. I don't see the big deal here.