official Team Fortress 2

[Denis W. Veteran]

One interesting fact about the "Cheaters Lament", it doesn't cloak with spies :p

Had a really annoying player on our server who kept going on about how he had one and we didn't, he went spy, cloaked, walked out and instantly died :laugh:

LOL, yeah. I kept dominating a few spies who - all but one - were oblivious to what was going on. :laugh:

Personally, I saw little point of people running fake idling servers and didn't bother. They're just hats, and for weapons, if you play for under 2 hours each day you'll get all unlockables within two or three weeks.

Also, to add to mwpeck's question, the enemy team can see the halo, except that it's very blurry.

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

Is that on purpose? Surely it must be a bug. I mean, the hat was a gift for honest players.

[Denis W. Veteran]

I would hope it's on purpose to punish those ego boasting spies... like the one The_Decryptor ran into. :p

[Minimoose]

[Nagisan]

Also, to add to mwpeck's question, the enemy team can see the halo, except that it's very blurry.

Does it show the same way on uncloaked disguised enemy spies? I saw a few disguised spies earlier with blurry halo's but they seemed to actually be friendly spies not enemy spies.

[Denis W. Veteran]

Does it show the same way on uncloaked disguised enemy spies? I saw a few disguised spies earlier with blurry halo's but they seemed to actually be friendly spies not enemy spies.

Ack, you're probably right. The blurry halos are probably for friendly spies only. If that's the case then enemy spies have a regular halo.

[Minifig]

[Mathachew Veteran]

Nice

[Denis W. Veteran]

There's a mod floating around which changes the halo to read "GAY."

.... some people. :rolleyes: :laugh:

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

I simply follow a "no cheating whatsoever" policy. At times like this, it pays off. I get to run around with a halo to let others know of my honesty and integrity. I kid, I kid. Seriously though, it's a shame people had to resort to idling programs to get items. At times, I don't blame them because Valve's system is a little iffy. Sometimes it'll give you a bunch of items and other times you don't get anything.

[ViZioN]

I simply follow a "no cheating whatsoever" policy. At times like this, it pays off. I get to run around with a halo to let others know of my honesty and integrity. I kid, I kid. Seriously though, it's a shame people had to resort to idling programs to get items. At times, I don't blame them because Valve's system is a little iffy. Sometimes it'll give you a bunch of items and other times you don't get anything.

Yeah that was basically the reason I started using the idling program. The people I play with online all had hats, some have even got 4-5 and I've got none :angry: So Valve say they've improved the odds of getting hat. Wonder what the odds are now, only 50-1? :p

[Vice]

Yeah that was basically the reason I started using the idling program. The people I play with online all had hats, some have even got 4-5 and I've got none :angry: So Valve say they've improved the odds of getting hat. Wonder what the odds are now, only 50-1? :p

CHEATER!

<3 my Halo

[ViZioN]

CHEATER!

<3 my Halo

I better not start about the aimbotting then :laugh: If they improved their system people wouldn't feel the need to use external programs. It's just annoying when you play TF2 pretty regularly, to just get duplicates all the time.

[Vice]

People still feel the need to cheat using Wallhacks and Aimbots does that mean Counter Strike Source is broken? Or people who use Speedhacks and Teleporter Hacks and Automated Farming Programs in MMORPG's does that mean those are broken?

If you like the game play the game. Don't cheat for some cheap unlocks that you could earn with some patience.

[Mike]

^ Thats the point, no one "earned" any of the hats. You didn't do anything to get them except have TF2 running while connected to a server.

[Nagisan]

Comic to sum up the whole situation.

Oh and quit calling the idler cheating and comparing it to hacks.

Edited September 5, 2009 by mwpeck

[Vice]

Cheaters always have an excuse to justify their actions.

[jonhapimp]

Comic to sum up the whole situation.

Oh and quit calling the idler cheating and comparing it to hacks.

404

[mail]

logic suggests it would be the most recent or relatively recent entry

http://www.halolz.com/

voila

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

Whether you like it or not, using external applications to "idle" is cheating the system. And one who cheats is a cheater. There's no point in justifying it because it's cheating, plain and simple.

[Nagisan]

Cheaters always have an excuse to justify their actions.

Good thing the idler wasn't cheating....

404

Odd, works fine here...<edit> Fixed, they added an S onto the end of the file name before the extension.

[Vice]

Good thing the idler wasn't cheating....

Odd, works fine here...<edit> Fixed, they added an S onto the end of the file name before the extension.

If you use any kind of external program to automate your play = Cheating. As defined by Valve in their Blog entry on the TF2 Website.

[Nagisan]

If you use any kind of external program to automate your play = Cheating. As defined by Valve in their Blog entry on the TF2 Website.

The idler did not automate play, it did the same thing sitting in a server idling did. Does using a macro keyboard to automate things constitute a cheat? Yes, its not available to everyone and can potentially give you an advantage over someone else. Does using the idler to idle constitute a cheat? No, it is available to everyone and gives NO ADVANTAGE WHAT-SO-EVER over someone who sits in an achievement_idle server.

Instead of finding and listing the reasons on why the idler was not a cheat, I will just copy it from someone else who has already stated it on the TF2 forums.

Reason 1: Created from Valve's own released SDK information available to ALL programmers

Reason 2: Per stated ToS: External programs are covered if used for COMMERCIAL GAINS

Reason 3: Drunken f00l: Emailed Valve before full launch/thereabouts asking if it was ok, he wasn't told no

Reason 4: After numerous questions on the forums and users downloading DIRECTLY through the forums, users are being held responsible for Valve's inability to make a decision in regards to ok to run and also ok to post publicly on this very forum to the masses

Reason 5: Without any warning Valve blasts all players calling them "Cheaters" and "Morally Deficient" and to add to this factor gave 95% of the player-base a hat to use for the sole purpose of lording over the idlers

Reason 6: Achievement_Idle servers are ok, even though his application did the same thing, I guess they were more frustrated that steam didn't count the hours idling that way as opposed to being in a achievement_idle server...

In short, before Valve made that blog post, they never stated it was a cheat, they infact ignored commenting on it even when asked, which tells me it was legal up until the blog post. In the blog post they mentioned "not having a policy" against something like the idler, which tells me it was once again, per their own ToS and rules, legal up until the blog post.

So right now yes, the idler is now defined as a cheat by Valve, but it is no longer usable therefore that is irrelevant. Looking back to before the blog post that you mention, Valve never explicitly said its not a cheat, but at the same time they never mentioned it was a cheat or against their ToS.

When you say cheat, that would typically be something like a wall hack or aimbot, they are technically usable by everyone, but they give people an advantage. Where is the advantage in using the idler? Exactly, there is no advantage at all.

EDIT: The two most important points are 2 and 3. The ToS (before the blog post) had no mention of something like the idler and therefore was not against Valves rules at the time it was being used. In point 3, the creator emailed Valve and they did not comment on whether it was ok to use or not. Try emailing Valve asking them about an actual cheat (like a wallhack or aimbot) I guarantee you will get at least some sort of response about it telling you it is not ok to use.

Edited September 5, 2009 by mwpeck

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

All the idler did was tell steam you were connected to a server, I don't see how that gives you an unfair advantage in the game :p (especially since you can't play the game when the idlers running)

And yes, Valve themselves said there was no policy against the idler up until they called all the idlers names and took their stuff.

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

i think there is a thing in the agreement about using 3rd party utilities for anything, agreed they didn't say an idler specifically. but to use that as an excuse is just sad