UEFA Champions League

[mail]

Can't say Fletcher's ban being upheld surprises me. That "compassionate grounds" crap stank to me of "please reverse the decision because we are Manchester United".

[Subject Delta]

I'm sure your tune will change when it happens to a Liverpool player. The fact is he shouldn't have been sent off so should be allowed to play, it has nothing to do which club he plays for. It's also a fact it wasn't just United wanting the card taken away, it was most people who know about football. If Uefa allow for players to be punished afterwards, why not have incorrect punishments removed like any other league does?

I didn't debate the fact that he shouldn't have been sent off, in fact if you read my entire post and not just the bits you want to nit-pick on then I clearly said that Uefa's appeal procedures need a overhaul, and FYI I would say the same if it where a Liverpool player. Of course I would be annoyed, but the fact remains that whether the red card was just or not, under current UEFA rules the decision taken is correct.

Why would I be a crybaby? Liverpool aren't in the final and to be frank with you, I really couldn't give a toss whether fletcher plays in the final or not. Facts are facts though United and particularly fergie complain on and on about how they are so hard done by with refereeing decisions. The only day I ever saw them silent in fact was after the 4-1 hammering because they knew there was no argument about the ref.

Fact is though, histrionics and Manchester United go together well, just ask Ronaldo and all the players that have been booked because of his diving

[Brodel]

Can't say Fletcher's ban being upheld surprises me. That "compassionate grounds" crap stank to me of "please reverse the decision because we are Manchester United". Credit to UEFA though for showing the balls to defend their procedures.

Admittedly the red was undeserved but if no other team would get the red overturned, then refusing united the same right is only fair.

Shame that 3 players are missing from the final from inept refereeing. I just get the gut feeling that all the key people missing from Barcelona will effectively kill the game as any sort of contest. UEFA clearly need a re-think of their rules about overturning unjust bookings and sendings off.

This doesn't really make sense. You think it's a case of 'please reverse the decision because we are Manchester United' and then you said that admittedly the red was undeserved. You seem to hold it against them for appealing, but if everyone knows that no other team would get a red overturned then why did Barcelona try, unless you think they have the same attitude? Also, I agree with you, it is a shame that the players are missing from the final because of inept refereeing, that is why both teams appealed.

[Subject Delta]

No, what I hold against them is that they think UEFA will abandon their policies just for them... Compassionate grounds is just a cheap way of saying "please reverse the decision for us".

The red card was harsh, but under current UEFA rules it cannot be contested unless it is a case of mistaken ID (which it clearly wasn't as the ref knew he was sending Fletcher off).

Bad decision from the ref... Correct decision from UEFA to uphold their own rules

Does that make more sense to you? Sorry for the confusion, its kinda a hard point to put across :p

[Martyn]

Why would I be a crybaby?

It's ok mate, mail is a Man Utd 'fan' from Reading who has probably never been to a football match in his life, and for this reason we cannot expect any rational discussion from him which is probably why he only enters this thread to post 'funny pictures'.

[Subject Delta]

It's ok mate, mail is a Man Utd 'fan' from Reading who has probably never been to a football match in his life, and for this reason we cannot expect any rational discussion from him which is probably why he only enters this thread to post 'funny pictures'.

That gave me a much needed laugh :laugh: thanks

[Brodel]

No, what I hold against them is that they think UEFA will abandon their policies just for them... Compassionate grounds is just a cheap way of saying "please reverse the decision for us".

The red card was harsh, but under current UEFA rules it cannot be contested unless it is a case of mistaken ID (which it clearly wasn't as the ref knew he was sending Fletcher off).

Bad decision from the ref... Correct decision from UEFA to uphold their own rules

Does that make more sense to you? Sorry for the confusion, its kinda a hard point to put across :p

I understand, but I don't think it's just a United thing personally. It was a harsh decision whoever it was. I am not sure that they assume it should be turned over because of who they are, but because it genuinely was a bad decision. To miss what is one of the biggest games of a players career perhaps makes stating compassionate grounds more valid than just stating that the ref was wrong, because that is already clear. I don't know. I think that all cards should be wiped for semi finals and finals anyway. It makes for better games in both circumstances.

[Subject Delta]

United knew loud and clear that the only grounds for overturning of the decision was mistaken ID, there is no ruling for "compassionate grounds".

For the record I absolutely agree, I was merely stating that UEFA's decision is correct under the current rules. I don't think all reds should be wiped out, as I feel reds that are actually merited need to be punished (but I definitely agree that the option to have bad ones overturned should be in the rules), but yellows I definitely agree that they should be wiped out.

Sad thing is, Barca will miss their players more than UTD will miss Fletcher, and I just have a feeling we will be seeing a one sided final. For sure, disciplinary action is important but they need to take a leaf from the Premier league and apply common sense

[HeartsOfWar]

Does anyone know if ESPN360 will have a replay of the UEFA final? If they will, it's not currently showing on the upcoming calendar... Do they normally cover the final?

I understand, but I don't think it's just a United thing personally. It was a harsh decision whoever it was. I am not sure that they assume it should be turned over because of who they are, but because it genuinely was a bad decision. To miss what is one of the biggest games of a players career perhaps makes stating compassionate grounds more valid than just stating that the ref was wrong, because that is already clear. I don't know. I think that all cards should be wiped for semi finals and finals anyway. It makes for better games in both circumstances.

I literally just got interested in football within the last 5 months, but it seems pretty unanimous that since Fletcher actually touched the ball, the call was erroneous... am I correct? Is that the way it works? if you get a piece of the ball before actually touching the player in the manner that is considered the foul, you're ok?

I understand that having the blanket rule of not overturning decisions keeps the game moving and simplifies overhead, but I don't really understand why the UEFA council (?) couldn't review the replays afterward and simply have a press conference to announce the decision.

I don't support the clearing of cards before a final, because they currently serve a huge purpose and do it quite well. Without them, a player may blatantly foul another to remove both themselves from the game without any long term consequences.

Edited May 14, 2009 by HeartsOfWar

[gregb0b]

Does anyone know if ESPN360 will have a replay of the UEFA final? If they will, it's not currently showing on the upcoming calendar... Do they normally cover the final?

.

It will be on ESPN2... They usually show the re-runs around 4am lol. Get a tivo or DVR :)

[Weld_El_7aj]

So, one week for the big Final, any predictions????

i'd love to see a 4-3 for Bar?a:pp, it would be awesome, but i think ManU will get it.

While they bring us a great show, may the best win

[Rappy Veteran]

I think Barca will win, alot are writing them off but I really don't see why.

[Kralik]

I agree with Rappy.. I feel Barca will win it.. there won't be a lot of goals 2-1 or 1-0 I feel..

[User6060]

dudes, barca could barely score 1 goal in the semi's....its gonna be a 2-0 or 3-0 blow out. they won't be able to match the strength of the game that is played in the EPL and it shows how they almost lost to chelsea.

barca is gonna be depleted with suspensions too

[Subject Delta]

Agreed, with their players missing I believe United will cakewalk it. Chelsea just flattered Barcelona by playing defensively, IMO United won't do that as they have the attacking power to rip their weakened defense to shreds.

[JoeC]

I literally just got interested in football within the last 5 months, but it seems pretty unanimous that since Fletcher actually touched the ball, the call was erroneous... am I correct? Is that the way it works? if you get a piece of the ball before actually touching the player in the manner that is considered the foul, you're ok?

It seems to depend more on luck, really :p If you take the man out, it all depends on how much the referee sees, and there's virtually no chance anything will change after the game.

AFAIK, in the rules, so long as you don't tackle from behind and you're not going in with two feet, if you take the ball before the man, it's a legal challenge (with common sense being applied - studs down, not high tackle, etc).

[Weld_El_7aj]

dudes, barca could barely score 1 goal in the semi's....its gonna be a 2-0 or 3-0 blow out. they won't be able to match the strength of the game that is played in the EPL and it shows how they almost lost to chelsea.

barca is gonna be depleted with suspensions too

primo, Bar?a could barely score against Chelsea because they are the best defensive team actually, at least IMO. Bilbao tried to do like them and got a 4-1 in the cup finalm. Segundo, this year, and that i can remember, only 2 teams scored more than 2 goals against Bar?a, Atletico Madrid 4-3 in La Liga and the shakhtar with the b team 1-3 in CL.

so winning Bar?a easily now is impossible, even with the missing players. now if Iniesta can't play, then it would be harder to win, the defensive missing will be covered by Puyol for Alvez, Silvinho for Abidal and the new invention of Guardiola Toure for Marquez and this will be the biggest weakness IMO because it changes the best part of the team, the middle field (Busquets or Keita will take Toure's place in the middle).

Anyway, it will by a hard game, ManU is Favorite, they have the best squad in the world right now and Bar?a are missing main team players (specially if Iniesta and Henry don't get well to play) but nothing near a blow out...

[Martyn]

I'm liking the way Man Utd are favourites for this. I would much rather be the underdog going into a Champions League Final.

I think Barca will fair much better against Man Utd than they did against Chelsea. Hiddink played a tactical game, and attempted to stop Barca from playing, and even though Barca had around 70-75% possession over the two legs, they could barely use it effectively.

Man Utd however struggle when they don't have the ball and another team takes the initiative, a la Liverpool and Fulham this season, and Slur does not possess the tactical nous of Hiddink or Benitez (his strengths lie in other fields of management) to stop Barca playing like Chelsea did.

Man Utd will pose most of a threat down the flanks, especially with Barca's full backs being crap (Alves is an overrated piece of crap) and suspensions.

It will be an interesting game I feel, and if Barca and Messi turn up then it will be very exciting.

[Kralik]

Agreed, with their players missing I believe United will cakewalk it. Chelsea just flattered Barcelona by playing defensively, IMO United won't do that as they have the attacking power to rip their weakened defense to shreds.

If United attack Barca.. they are dead coz Barca's counter attack will swallow them and throw the bones out in first half.. I want to see Henry lifting that trophy.. and United fans must rem him ;)

Edited May 20, 2009 by Kralik

[Subject Delta]

I'm liking the way Man Utd are favourites for this. I would much rather be the underdog going into a Champions League Final.

I think Barca will fair much better against Man Utd than they did against Chelsea. Hiddink played a tactical game, and attempted to stop Barca from playing, and even though Barca had around 70-75% possession over the two legs, they could barely use it effectively.

Man Utd however struggle when they don't have the ball and another team takes the initiative, a la Liverpool and Fulham this season, and Slur does not possess the tactical nous of Hiddink or Benitez (his strengths lie in other fields of management) to stop Barca playing like Chelsea did.

Man Utd will pose most of a threat down the flanks, especially with Barca's full backs being crap (Alves is an overrated piece of crap) and suspensions.

It will be an interesting game I feel, and if Barca and Messi turn up then it will be very exciting.

I suppose, but having looked at how united where full of their own arrogance before we humbled them, I'd say that being favourite wouldn't bother united, they are one of those teams that likes to believe their own hype. I agree with your other assessments though, it will certainly be interesting, I just can't see Barcelona's defence holding firm with all the absences that they have.

The United VS Barca game last year was a really turgid affair, I hope this one is better. Naturally I will be cheering for Barca, but honestly I wouldn't like to stick my neck out and make a prediction as to what the result will be as its so close.

If United can turn up with the same organisation Chelsea had, its theirs for the taking. If Barcelona attack like we know they can, it will be far more interesting. Should be an interesting watch, but nothing other than United failure will satisfy me :D

If United attack Barca.. they are dead coz Barca's counter attack will swallow them and throw the bones out in first half.. I want to see Henry lifting that trophy.. and United fans must rem him

I could never stand Henry, I disliked him nearly as much as I currently dislike Drogba and Ronaldo. Still, i'd rather see him life it than anyone from scumchester united.

[Crazysah]

I think Barca will win, alot are writing them off but I really don't see why.

Yeah. I agree totally. Go BARCA!

[Kralik]

Watch out United here comes Henry!! :D

Thierry Henry resumed training with the Barcelona first team on Friday morning for the first time since suffering an injury, thus taking an important step towards playing in the Champions League final.

The Frenchman is working hard to try and shake off a knock that he picked up in a collision with Sergio Ramos in the win against Real Madrid in the Bernabeu this month.

After missing the Blaugrana's last few games, Henry is aiming to be fit in time to play against Manchester United next week in Rome and his appearance on the pitch was a major boost.

While he may only have warmed up with the rest of the players, the forward was given a welcome by the squad who were all pleased to see him back in action

Having stretched and exercised with his team-mates, Henry then joined Andres Iniesta away from the group to continue with his personal recuperation programme.

I hope he makes it to the final.. he is a big player you want in your team in matches as big as this.. he can changes matches single handedly.. Go Henry!!

[Weld_El_7aj]

^^it's great news, but IMO, the recuperation of Iniesta is more important because, with Xavi, he is the brain of Bar?a and the one that can control the middlefield.

[Kralik]

^^it's great news, but IMO, the recuperation of Iniesta is more important because, with Xavi, he is the brain of Bar?a and the one that can control the middlefield.

You wanted Iniesta? He's back too..:happy::

Barcelona have included Thierry Henry and Andres Iniesta in their squad ahead of the Champions League final after the duo trained on Monday.

Coach Pep Guardiola was given a boost after both players joined their team-mates for the last session ahead of the journey to Rome, even though they did not maintain the same level.

If they can each play one half that will be great for Barca..

[Rappy Veteran]

I still think Barca will win :p