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By CoolCatBad
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Ghil

Posted
Posted

well the main complaint against Microsoft is generally the obligatory bundle of their application in their os, wich you can't uninstall. THAT is monopoly. They use their position to force you into using their applications. You can uninstall any Google apps, and are not forced in any way to use them. You can use Google to search the web without Google Desktop search now can you?

Grand Master

Pupik

Posted
Posted
That's a pretty stupid statement. Even if they don't change give you an option to change the default search engine (which is highly unlikely given the nature of the google firefox bar) there is still plenty of competition out there in the browser market.

Didn't Google whine on Microsoft for having a shortcut in Start menu for Vista's search function and made them remove it in SP1?

Why then they allowed to do the same in their browser?

Mentor

+SOOPRcow MVC

Posted
  • MVC
Posted
I'm sorry, but how is what I just said stupid?

It doesn't matter if there's competition in the browser market. That is a stupid statement. What matters is that Google is potentially using its power in one industry to leverage itself in another industry. It's the same argument that was used against Microsoft. The exact same one. If Microsoft is called out -- by Google of all companies -- for not allowing you to uninstall Windows Search, then why should Google not be called out if they don't allow you to use another search engine on its browser?

Microsoft has to allow other search engines than Live Search/MSN on Internet Explorer.

I fail to see how ANYTHING of what I said is stupid.

How are they using there power to leverage itself into the industry? They did just renew the deal they have with Firefox to continue funding something like 85% of there organization till 2011.

It is not the same exact thing as Microsoft seeing as Microsoft was preinstalling it on an operating and making it hard to replace and or remove.

That all said and done why and the hell do you assume that google will not allow you to use another search engine in there open source browser. Using any of there browser toolbars they have always let you change the default search engine it uses.

So I guess the reason why the stuff you said was stupid was because it was based upon your assumptions and your apparent dislike of google.

Explorer

Ghil

Posted
Posted
Didn't Google whine on Microsoft for having a shortcut in Start menu for Vista's search function and made them remove it in SP1?

Why then they allowed to do the same in their browser?

hermmm...writing this from a Vista SP1 pc, and the search function is unaltered. source?

Mentor

+SOOPRcow MVC

Posted
  • MVC
Posted

Looks to me like google was complaining about the fact that it could not be removed or replaced.

"The search boxes built throughout Vista are hard-wired to Microsoft's own desktop search product, with no way for users to choose an alternate provider from these visible search access points. Likewise, Vista makes it impractical to turn off Microsoft's search index."
Grand Master

HawkMan

Posted
Posted
Not really. It's not so much about placement as it is about relationship. In Chrome, the address par is essentially a sibling, or a property of, the tab. It is not independent or browser-wide as it is with every other browser today IINM. Other browsers give you the facade of the address bar being tied to the tabs (since they switch the referenced URL when tabs are focused) but it's not really the case. In Chrome, Google is tying the address bar to the tab as the presence of a tab represents a completely separate process and therefore a completely separate address bar, etc.

So those that are crying about how this isn't a new feature are looking at it as strictly a UI design, when it's really much more than that.

So it's exactly like it has been for Opera since they added tabs and like IE7's tabs. Both of these the adress bar and it's fucntions are part of the tab you are in, NOT browser wide. FF and Safari is not all other browsers :p

Grand Master

Julius Caro

Posted
Posted
hermmm...writing this from a Vista SP1 pc, and the search function is unaltered. source?

the search button that is supposed to be in the start menu is not there anymore as per sp1

Looks to me like google was complaining about the fact that it could not be removed or replaced.

Well, they're right. Turning indexing off in vista is not as straight forward as it should be. You have to go to the indexing options (where there is a pause button, but not or a turn off button), click on modify, then click on "show all locations" (uac prompt) and then deselect everything.

But I agree that we would all benefit if the search bars throughout windows had some sort of an API that other programs could use. Although I can't recall OS X being any better in regards to this aspect. But at least spotlight kinda makes more sense than windows search which for some reason NEVER finds what I'm looking for.

Veteran

Pheee

Posted
Posted
So it's exactly like it has been for Opera since they added tabs and like IE7's tabs. Both of these the adress bar and it's fucntions are part of the tab you are in, NOT browser wide. FF and Safari is not all other browsers :p

Sorry no, IE7, FF and Safari all have an address bar browser wide.

Opera only seems to be the one with buttons etc under Tab, but as I see with all this, its all about the architcture and performance.

Lets wait and see how this is when its released soon.

Grand Master

HawkMan

Posted
Posted
Sorry no, IE7, FF and Safari all have an address bar browser wide.

Opera only seems to be the one with buttons etc under Tab, but as I see with all this, its all about the architcture and performance.

Lets wait and see how this is when its released soon.

IE had the adress bar above the tabs, but the adress bar wasn't global as such. this was also what caused th emost complains about tabs in IE7, thet each tab included so much of the browser. so toolbars and such weren't global. And you'd have to turn on the stumbleupon toolbar for each tab for example.

Grand Master

SVG Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted
IE had the adress bar above the tabs, but the adress bar wasn't global as such. this was also what caused th emost complains about tabs in IE7, thet each tab included so much of the browser. so toolbars and such weren't global. And you'd have to turn on the stumbleupon toolbar for each tab for example.

+1 I remember having a few custom buttons in one tab which werent present on top of other tabs..

And 'bout Google Chrome.. The UI looks like a browser version of Windows XP with its Fisher Price look :p

Grand Master

Pupik

Posted
Posted
What's the point to having a Search button, when you can search directly from the box in the Start menu? I don't see how Microsoft has addressed Google's concerns in this regard.

Two different things, really. The search bar in Start menu doesn't have the same advanced search options as "Start + F". It's more like a "run" ("Start + R") option.

Grand Master

Ayepecks

Posted
Posted
How are they using there power to leverage itself into the industry? They did just renew the deal they have with Firefox to continue funding something like 85% of there organization till 2011.

It is not the same exact thing as Microsoft seeing as Microsoft was preinstalling it on an operating and making it hard to replace and or remove.

That all said and done why and the hell do you assume that google will not allow you to use another search engine in there open source browser. Using any of there browser toolbars they have always let you change the default search engine it uses.

So I guess the reason why the stuff you said was stupid was because it was based upon your assumptions and your apparent dislike of google.

So they're not using their browser to leverage their own search engine if they don't allow other search engines to be used? How on earth does that work?

As someone already said, Google whined when Microsoft put a link to the desktop search in the Vista start menu. Microsoft has since made it able to be changed for a third-party search feature... like the one Google made. Mind you, these types of features are practically commonplace in operating systems. Similar to how search boxes are commonplace in browsers now.

It is the exact same thing as the search box is automatically in the browser. If they don't allow you to change it, that's pretty much word-for-word with what they whined about Microsoft doing.

I didn't assume anything. I said that Google is using its monopoly in the search engine field to leverage its other products and vice-versa. Someone asked if others would be available. The obvious implication was that if it wasn't it'd just be the borderline monopoly issue coming about face again. I didn't assume anything -- go check my post again if you think I did.

I don't have any dislike of Google -- so maybe you shouldn't be jumping to conclusions. It's my default search engine and will be because it's the best. I love it. But I'm going to call it like I see it... not ignore it.

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