Atheist group sues Bush, governor over National Day of Prayer

[+Gary7 Subscriber²]

Uh, atheism :blink:

By definition, atheism is the belief that there is no God. Look it up.

Agnosticism is more appropriate to say you do not believe in such things at all.

I thought that Agnosticism was when you believe that there is a God but just don't care?

Agnosticism implies uncertainty about the existence of God. The basic problem here is that there are many answers to the question "Does God exist?" However there is only this one term available to cover all of the meanings. Some of today's possible overlapping answers to the question are:

* I don't personally know.

* I don't know but will lead my life in the assumption that no God exists.

* I don't know but will lead my life assuming that God does exist.

* I cannot give an opinion because there is no way that we can prove the existence or non-existence of God given currently available knowledge.

* I cannot give an opinion because there is no way to know, with certainty, anything about God, now and in the future.

* Yes, God exists. But we do not know anything about God at this time.

* Yes, God exists. But we have no possibility of knowing anything about God, now or in the future.

Link

I looked it up. never mind. :)

[Ayepecks]

The government can't make a law which is designed to benefit religions.

A national day of prayer falls under that.

Edit: lack of belief != a belief

Exactly, the government cannot make a law that is designed to benefit religion of and kind. But this law does not benefit religions.

[brentaal]

Uh, atheism :blink:

By definition, atheism is the belief that there is no God. Look it up.

Atheism means without belief in god.

I thought that Agnosticism was when you believe that there is a God but just don't care?

No, it's more like saying "I accept I don't know whether there is a god".

(a-gnosticism, meaning without knowledge)

[vincent]

Uh, atheism :blink:

By definition, atheism is the belief that there is no God. Look it up.

That doesn't make any sense to me. I don't go around telling myself i believe there isn't a god. I just haven't found sufficient reason(s) to believe.

[gigapixels Veteran]

I thought that Agnosticism was when you believe that there is a God but just don't care?

Not even close. Agnosticism is when one knows that one does not in fact have absolute knowledge (i.e. whether or not a god or deity does exist). I am agnostic. I cannot know one way or the other, and I believe to claim oneself as an atheist is as arrogant and short-sighted as claiming oneself to know that there truly is a god. The fact is that we cannot and will not know until we die. I personally don't think there is a god, but I cannot know for sure, and I accept that fact, and that's why I would be identified as agnostic.

Atheism means without belief in god.

Then we agree to disagree. I've always known it as the belief that there is no god. Doing a define: search on Google shows both of our definitions.

[betasp]

How would you name such a religion? (where one believes there is no god)

Again, it depends on how you define religion. For example, if religion means a set of beliefs and practices generally held by a community, involving adherence to codified beliefs and rituals and study of ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and mystic experience then atheism could apply... similar to Wiccan and modern Gaia. That discussion is for another topic.

[gigapixels Veteran]

That doesn't make any sense to me. I don't go around telling myself i believe there isn't a god. I just haven't found sufficient reason(s) to believe.

I guess it's all down to your own personal viewpoint.

When I identified myself as an atheist, I believed there was no god. At least, that's how I thought about it.

[Jarik]

Again, it depends on how you define religion. For example, if religion means a set of beliefs and practices generally held by a community, involving adherence to codified beliefs and rituals and study of ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and mystic experience then atheism could apply... similar to Wiccan and modern Gaia. That discussion is for another topic.

But since atheism doesn't have a set of beliefs and practices, no adherence to codified beliefs and rituals, no cultural traditions, writings, history or mythology, and no personal faith or mystic experiences, how could it be a religion ?

[betasp]

But since atheism doesn't have a set of beliefs and practices, no adherence to codified beliefs and rituals, no cultural traditions, writings, history or mythology, and no personal faith or mystic experiences, how could it be a religion ?

The lack of a belief in a God is a set of beliefs. Those beliefs are consistent across all atheists. There are writings cited by atheists such as those from Richard Dawkins.... see where I am going.

[vincent]

The lack of a belief in a God is a set of beliefs. Those beliefs are consistent across all atheists.

Please divulge...I'd love to know what these "beliefs" actually are.

[betasp]

Please divulge...I'd love to know what these "beliefs" actually are.

Atheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of gods. This absence of belief generally comes about either through deliberate choice, or from an inherent inability to believe religious teachings which seem literally incredible. It is not a lack of belief born out of simple ignorance of religious teachings.

Some atheists go beyond a mere absence of belief in gods: they actively believe that particular gods, or all gods, do not exist. Just lacking belief in Gods is often referred to as the "weak atheist" position; whereas believing that gods do not (or cannot) exist is known as "strong atheism."

Regarding people who have never been exposed to the concept of 'god': Whether they are 'atheists' or not is a matter of debate. Since you're unlikely to meet anyone who has never encountered religion, it's not a very important debate...

It is important, however, to note the difference between the strong and weak atheist positions. "Weak atheism" is simple skepticism; disbelief in the existence of God. "Strong atheism" is an explicitly held belief that God does not exist. Please do not fall into the trap of assuming that all atheists are "strong atheists." There is a qualitative difference in the "strong" and "weak" positions; it's not just a matter of degree.

Some atheists believe in the nonexistence of all Gods; others limit their atheism to specific Gods, such as the Christian God, rather than making flat-out denials.

[Jarik]

I'm aware of all that, but you haven't mentioned any set of beliefs I supposedly have.

It is better, I find, to see it like this :

Theist - With God

Atheist - Without God

I have no God in my life. I don't believe I have no God, there is just nothing there.

See where I'm going ?

[PermaSt0ne]

some of you are getting confused:

atheist = there is no god

agnostic = whether god (any god, not just the judeo-christian god) exists or not is unknown and inherently impossible to prove or disprove. basically, nobody knows and it doesn't matter. it is what it is, and us mere mortals with our extremely limited knowledge trying to claim we know one way or the other is ridiculous

i would be an agnostic :)

[Jarik]

Agnostic is a crappy word.

[gigapixels Veteran]

How is agnostic a crappy word? It is, in my opinion, the most logical position one could take.

I'm not arrogant enough to believe that I'm absolutely correct. The fact is, no matter how right you think you are, you'll never know for sure until you're dead. I personally don't think there is a god, but I'm not about to proclaim my opinion as the correct one when I have no way to know for sure. So therefore I am not an atheist, I am agnostic.

[Jarik]

Because we all know one can neither prove or disprove a God. So the point is moot. The question is whether there is a God in your life, on any level.

[gigapixels Veteran]

You're going against any and every definition of agnosticism and atheism I've ever heard :|

[PermaSt0ne]

Because we all know one can neither prove or disprove a God. So the point is moot. The question is whether there is a God in your life, on any level.

well, tell me the exact conditions that must be met in order for God to be in your life and i'll answer your question. oh yea, there isn't. you don't know if god is in your life, on any level. it could be god, or it could be randomness.

so the answer to your question of "whether there is a god in your life, on any level" is you don't know. it's impossible to know for sure. so your question is moot

[abulfares]

How is agnostic a crappy word? It is, in my opinion, the most logical position one could take.

I'm not arrogant enough to believe that I'm absolutely correct. The fact is, no matter how right you think you are, you'll never know for sure until you're dead. I personally don't think there is a god, but I'm not about to proclaim my opinion as the correct one when I have no way to know for sure. So therefore I am not an atheist, I am agnostic.

I respect your opinion, but to me, it is very clear that God does exist. I can see that through evidence everywhere. Just like we never held or saw our own brains to believe they exist, we still believe they are there and they are functional. Even a CAT scan shows you a picture not the actual thing. We believe our brains exist because of the evidence that point towards their existence.

There are plenty of analogies that can follow. Another example is the data traveling through your CPU :) Never seen it but I know it exists.

A computer needs some one or something to assemble it (duh lol); I believe this universe (from the galaxies to the tiniest cell in our bodies) had an assembler, God.

Even the scriptures that are said to be from God, they have much similarities between them although they are few thousands years apart. If they are lies, then with time lies get exposed or just die with time. Not these scriptures though.

Again, this is my own personal opinion. And because of this, I think believing in God is rational and logical.

Edited October 6, 2008 by abulfares

[Jarik]

Since I said that one cannot offer proof of a God, I assumed you guys understood I meant on a personal level. As in, I can 'feel' that there is a God.

That is the actual question of whether one is a Theist or an Atheist.

[wst50]

Stuff I don't disagree with.

Please please pleaaaaaaaaaaase learn some grammar. Your posts read as if made by a 5 year old.

But I don't disagree with the point you made, just tighten up the simple grammar. Capitals, etc.

[PermaSt0ne]

Since I said that one cannot offer proof of a God, I assumed you guys understood I meant on a personal level. As in, I can 'feel' that there is a God.

That is the actual question of whether one is a Theist or an Atheist.

i'm amazed that people are so sure they feel there is a god. how do you know you are feeling god and that you don't have some nerve damage in your brain making you feel something wierd that other people don't?

you can't possibly know for a fact that it's god. you believe it's god, which is completely different than knowing. and if you say that "you just know" then you are going against the very basics of logic and your argument is void under the rules of the english language (yes there are actual rules, and yes there are formulas to find out if your argument is valid or not via logic). in a sense you are "cheating" and everything you say doesn't count

i respect yr opinion. but to me, it is very clear that God does exist. I can see that through evidence everywhere. Just like we never held or saw our own brains to believe they exist, we still believe they r there and they r functional. Even CAT scan shows u a picture not the actual thing. we believe our brains exist because of the evidence that point towards their existence.

there r plenty of analogies that can follow. another example is the data traveling through yr CPU :) never seen it but I know it exists.

a computer needs some one or something to assemble it (duh lol), I believe this universe (from the galaxies to the tiniest cell in out bodies) had an assembler, God.

again, this is my own personal opinion. and because of this, I think believing in God is rational and logical.

this is the problem. people try to argue the existence of god through science and it's impossible. it's impossible because nothing is absolute in science. you can believe in god all you want. and i totally support it, but the moment you try to explain it scientifically you loose the argument.

for example, we know we have brains because we cut people up every day. and for data in the computer, it's not data. it's electrical impulses that we create. we know that they are there.

just say that you believe in god and be done with it. refrain from coming up with terrible scientific examples of why god exists that only hold up as long as we stay ignorant as to why it happened.

the only argument for god is our lack of knowledge, and that argument gets less prevalent every single day as we discover more and more things

Edited October 6, 2008 by PermaSt0ne

[brentaal]

Just like we never held or saw our own brains to believe they exist, we still believe they are there and they are functional.

I lol'd. You believe you have a brain? Good going.

A computer needs some one or something to assemble it (duh lol); I believe this universe (from the galaxies to the tiniest cell in our bodies) had an assembler, God.

Can a computer procreate?

Also, if "everything needs an assembler" (aka creator) how come god doesn't need one?

[abulfares]

this is the problem. people try to argue the existence of god through science and it's impossible. it's impossible because nothing is absolute in science. you can believe in god all you want. and i totally support it, but the moment you try to explain it scientifically you loose the argument.

for example, we know we have brains because we cut people up every day. and for data in the computer, it's not data. it's electrical impulses that we create. we know that they are there.

just say that you believe in god and be done with it. refrain from coming up with terrible scientific examples of why god exists that only hold up as long as we stay ignorant as to why it happened.

the only argument for god is our lack of knowledge, and that argument gets less prevalent every single day as we discover more and more things

I'm not trying to use science to prove God exists. I have no idea how you got that from my post. All I posted was logical steps we follow when we encounter something to determine whether to believe or not.

I used analogies to compare, that's all. Sorry if these analogies happened to be scientific since that seems to tick you off.

I lol'd.

You did not disagree though ;)

Can a computer procreate?

Also, if "everything needs an assembler" (aka creator) how come god doesn't need one?

Maybe he does, maybe not. Again, our human knowledge cannot comprehend beyond this (it doesn't matter if you believe or not).

We can go all day long debating whether God exists or not just to end up in square one again. If something does not make sense to you, that does not mean it does not make sense to the rest.

@PermaSt0ne, it might be nerve damage if its one or two percent of the population on earth are believing in God, but not when they are the overwhelming majority. So, no it is not a disease rofl.

Edited October 6, 2008 by abulfares

[brentaal]

Maybe he does, maybe not. Again, our human knowledge cannot comprehend beyond this (it doesn't matter if you believe or not).

Yet you magically posses that knowledge?

I'll quote an earlier post of yours.

but to me, it is very clear that God does exist. I can see that through evidence everywhere