Mac's - are they overpriced?

By morphen
in Apple (macOS)

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Grand Master

offroadaaron

Posted
Posted
I think macs are ok, and I like OSX a lot. But they are DEFINITELY overpriced imo.

You're going by hardware and not the innovativeness (<- i know its not a word) of it. a 2 yo PC usually needs to be updated because its becoming shabby looking and out of date, but the Mac OS X OS runs well on Machines that are like 5 yo and those 5 y.o Machines still look up-to-date, because of the simple designs.

Last ability and most cost equal out in the end.

I mean if it were a car would you get a Hyundai Gets instead of a Toyota Corolla, the Corolla costs more, but going by statistics will last longer.

Just like if you paid a bit more to get a Subaru Impressa, thing is its the most reliable car statically so that might be a good reason to pay the extra $ $.

Grand Master

Shadrack

Posted
Posted
You're going by hardware and not the innovativeness (<- i know its not a word) of it. a 2 yo PC usually needs to be updated because its becoming shabby looking and out of date, but the Mac OS X OS runs well on Machines that are like 5 yo and those 5 y.o Machines still look up-to-date, because of the simple designs.

That is a large shovel of **** you are asking us to swallow. I'm using two PC's that are 5 years old, and they work perfectly fine for my needs. They were top of the line PC's 5 years ago, and perform better than the top of the line Macs did 5 years ago. Meanwhile, my 3 year old Mac Mini is excruciatingly slow, but it was kinda of a piece of crap since I got it.

Performance is performance. There isn't anything that makes an Apple perform better overtime in comparison to similarly spec'd PCs.

As for "longevity" the best you can argue for Apple is that they sell better used on eBay than PCs do. That has more to do with the aggressive advertisement campaign.

Grand Master

_bobcat_ Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted
You're going by hardware and not the innovativeness (<- i know its not a word) of it. a 2 yo PC usually needs to be updated because its becoming shabby looking and out of date, but the Mac OS X OS runs well on Machines that are like 5 yo and those 5 y.o Machines still look up-to-date, because of the simple designs.

.....

Nah, I have a three year old box that can run Vista, and it cost about ?500 to build. I've a five year old box that would need an upgrade but considering it was a cheap ass thing to begin with, that's no surprise.

Contributor

TitanTiger

Posted
Posted
Go do a bit of research, Dell Studio 15 with same specs but higher res screen and Blu-Ray drive is $1000 less than the similar specced Macbook Pro.

Interesting. I went and spec'd out the Dell you're talking about and I came up to $1709 and I didn't include any extra software to compensate for what comes on the MacBook Pro. That compares well with the $1999 MBP and the Dell has some better specs and the MBP has better specs on other things.

So it's roughly 15% more. If I was in the market for a laptop that expensive, that wouldn't be a huge difference to me.

Mentor

Kronir

Posted
Posted

Considering I can build a rig that could kick any Mac in the teeth (yes, even with running Windows), I'd say Apple is massively overpriced. And my environment is virus-free too: its called security software and common sense. And I don't have to worry about paying for tech support either. :D

Self-builders ftw! :D

Contributor

TitanTiger

Posted
Posted
Considering I can build a rig that could kick any Mac in the teeth (yes, even with running Windows), I'd say Apple is massively overpriced. And my environment is virus-free too: its called security software and common sense. And I don't have to worry about paying for tech support either. :D

Self-builders ftw! :D

Well isn't that true of anything? If I could build a BMW in my backyard for less than the price of a Honda, I'd do that too. But not everyone wants to or can build their own rig.

Veteran

DavidM

Posted
Posted

Yes and No. It's that simple.

Apples are a luxury item, many cheaper (maybe better) computers can do the same or close to the same thing you can do on an Apple.

BMWs are a luxury item, many cheaper (maybe better) cars........ Can you see where I'm going with this?

Bottom line, if you can afford an Apple and want one then they are not over priced in your opinion. Same for the BMW, a Ford, Chevy, heck even a Yugo can do roughly the same job - get you from point A to point B. How much luxury you desire in your trip from A to B will dictate how much you spend. Your wallet and/or credit score will set your top limit, but do you buy a Yugo or a Mustang or an Impala? Do you really need a V10, a V8 or even a V6 to get you from A to B or will the Dodge Neons 4 cyl be all you want.

See how simple that was. ;)

Experienced

mrt2

Posted
Posted
Considering I can build a rig that could kick any Mac in the teeth (yes, even with running Windows), I'd say Apple is massively overpriced. And my environment is virus-free too: its called security software and common sense. And I don't have to worry about paying for tech support either. :D

Self-builders ftw! :D

Build a rig that kicks mine in the teeth and get back to me. :)

By the way although you can run virus software (which will slow down your computer especially if it's on access type scanning) the fact that you have to have virus software in the first place is just lame. :\

But hey I can't complain I'm in charge of a mostly windows environment at work and if it weren't for windows and security (the field I'm in) I wouldn't have a house, car, or any other luxuries I enjoy. Thank you Microsoft! :hump:

Explorer

chaos_disorder

Posted
Posted

I've never owned a Mac, but I think they are very nice machines and would love a MacBook or MacBook Pro. Problem is, even though I work in IT, I still cannot rationalize paying over $1299 or $1599 for a home notebook. I just don't see a computer that's going to be used for primarily web surfing, email, games, etc. being worth that kind of money. I don't do graphic design, music, movie, or heavy photo editing. And I think that's where Apple's missing the point. Laptops are becoming more and more the norm these days, and people looking for a decent notebook to do normal, everyday tasks are not going to spend that kind of money on a MacBook when they can go get a Windows notebook for hundreds less. And for all the talk of viruses and malware, a mere 10 minutes spent installing free products like ZoneAlarm, AVG Free, and Ad-Aware will keep your computer clean for its lifespan.

Explorer

chaos_disorder

Posted
Posted
Build a rig that kicks mine in the teeth and get back to me. :)

By the way although you can run virus software (which will slow down your computer especially if it's on access type scanning) the fact that you have to have virus software in the first place is just lame. :\

But hey I can't complain I'm in charge of a mostly windows environment at work and if it weren't for windows and security (the field I'm in) I wouldn't have a house, car, or any other luxuries I enjoy. Thank you Microsoft! :hump:

Good God, how much did you spend on that machine? That's easily $4000, right? What do you do on it?

Contributor

TitanTiger

Posted
Posted
Yes they are over priced. If Apple priced their Macs at the same level as PCs and notebooks, I guarantee you more people will switch to Apple in a heartbeat.

Funny thing is, they've been experiencing double the growth rate of the rest of the PC industry for the last several quarters without pricing them that way. They're up to 9.6% US market share in the latest quarter. Hell, if you don't have to cut prices to see growth, why do it?

Grand Master

LTD

Posted
Posted
Funny thing is, they've been experiencing double the growth rate of the rest of the PC industry for the last several quarters without pricing them that way. They're up to 9.6% US market share in the latest quarter. Hell, if you don't have to cut prices to see growth, why do it?

Exactly. Facts are facts.

No reason for Apple to slash Mac prices and kill their margins when informed customers will pay for quality. Although the current economic trends may or may not prompt Apple to re-evaluate. We'll see.

The U.S. PC market as a whole (without Mac) in Q308 grew from 15.3118 million units to 15.7055 million units, just a small 1.02%. Apple Mac grew from 1.2707 million units to 1.6449 million units, which is 29.4%.

So in brief, in Q308, Mac growth in the U.S. was nearly thirty times (30x) as great as the rest of the U.S. PC market.

Serious growth for Apple with current prices. Apple's growth is even more impressive if you view it historically, from the introduction of the Intel models in early 2006.

Grand Master

Yusuf M. Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted

Well, it's easy see change in growth when you're small. The PC industry is somewhat saturated. It's 2008 and most people have at least one PC in their household. Can't say the same about Macs.

Enthusiast

Martin_Hell

Posted
Posted
The customer support is also excellent. To put it into context, I recently went with my dad to pick up a new laptop. We shopped around online and in person and found a pretty decent deal on one for ?350 at our local Comet. We went in, asked for the laptop and proceeded to get the usual salesman BS about needing an extended warranty, about how the screen and the keyboard (!!!) are not even covered under the standard manufacturers warranty, etc. There weren't even any restore discs in the box - they were an extra expense. There is none of that nonsense with the Mac - you buy it, you know the whole damn thing is covered by warranty. You can make an appointment at a Genius Bar in your local Apple Store and know that they'll probably be able to fix the problem and won't spend time passing the blame around on whether it's a hardware or software problem. Peace of mind is worth paying for IMHO.

The screen on your ipod isn't covered by the warranty so not everything you buy from apple will be covered by the warranty.

Mentor

Kronir

Posted
Posted
Build a rig that kicks mine in the teeth and get back to me. :)

By the way although you can run virus software (which will slow down your computer especially if it's on access type scanning) the fact that you have to have virus software in the first place is just lame. :\

But hey I can't complain I'm in charge of a mostly windows environment at work and if it weren't for windows and security (the field I'm in) I wouldn't have a house, car, or any other luxuries I enjoy. Thank you Microsoft! :hump:

I concede one point: that is a nice rig; wish I had a few extra grand for some of that. 'Tis a shame its running OSX instead of Ubuntu or Vista 64. ;)

As far as anti-virus software slowing my rig down...get one that's good and have a decent rig and it won't. I don't even bother turning it off for anything except Crysis; Avast doesn't affect the system at all. Your logic is akin to "I don't lock my front door because robberies aren't a problem in my town". That's fine and all...until it happens. And if the Leopard launch was any indication, Mac security looks to start becoming more of an issue if the next one is less secure as Leopard was during launch (I sawm ore than once that Leopard supposively was less secure than its predecessors, at least initially; I don't claim this as a fact, but it sure seemed to be a big deal a while back...); not to mention as the user base grows, it will become a more lucrative target to attack. Meanwhile, Vista took steps to become even more secure than XP was, and I expect Windows 7 to continue this trend. Needless to say, I'll be watching both Win7 and the next OSX (what's its name? I can't recall...) with great interest on the security front.

I could be wrong, of course, but I don't think so. ^_^

Grand Master

giga Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted
Well, it's easy see change in growth when you're small. The PC industry is somewhat saturated. It's 2008 and most people have at least one PC in their household. Can't say the same about Macs.

If most people have a PC in their household, why would they buy a mac instead of a cheaper PC? How would it explain the double growth sales--certainly not a straight math from a supply/demand curve? Straight economics surely doesn't explain Apple's growth.

http://daringfireball.net/2008/10/listen_to_tim_cook

One thing Apple knows is what it does. Apple designs and produces very nice things. All this hubbub over low-cost laptops is outside the realm of what makes Apple Apple. There has long been, especially in the business press, a strong bias towards encouraging Apple to act like a "normal" computer company. Remember when it was common for analysts to call for Apple to break itself apart into separate software and hardware companies? Or for Apple to obtain a license for Windows and make "well-designed" Windows PCs. Or for Apple to sell licenses for Mac OS X to Dell?

A lot of the current action in laptops, industry-wide, is at the low end of the market. Some of these machines look pretty interesting. None of them look like something Apple would make.

But yet there was (and is) this consensus that given current industry trends, combined with the rather shaky (to say the least) state of the global economy, well of course, what Apple needed to do was cheapen its MacBook lineup. Exhibit A, exhibit B, exhibit C.

What Apple announced Tuesday was exactly the opposite. Instead of making them cheaper, they made them better. Dramatic performance improvements in graphics, and a significant leap forward in industrial design and build quality. Cheap laptops creak and squeak at the seams. Apple's new MacBooks are cut from solid blocks of aluminum and hardly have any seams.

Apple doesn't make computers that people have to buy. They make computers that people want to buy.

The "netbook" market is an entirely different game. Apple may well go there eventually, but it won't be for another year or two, and then when they do, it will drive the PC press nuts because Steve Jobs will announce it in such a way that makes it seem as though Apple invented the entire product category.

(Aside: I think ? and this is nothing more than my own speculation here ? that it's more likely that a hypothetical really small (as in much smaller than even the Air), really cheap (as in less than $700) notebook computer from Apple wonot be a Mac. It'd run some variant of "OS X" of course, but I think it'd resemble a hot-rodded big-screen iPhone with a keyboard, not a stripped down small-screen MacBook. The iPhone OS would run faster on a $600 netbook than it does on an actual iPhone. Mac OS X would run slower, probably a lot slower. Apple builds thiup, down. Just my hunch. (Also: It's too bad Apple has already used the name "iBook".))Higher performance and improved build quality are in direct opposition to lower prices. These guys calling for $800 Apple notebooks have the company all wrong. To me, the most interesting part of yesterday's event had nothing to do with product announcements, but rather was COO Tim Cook's "state of the Mac" segment at the beginning.

This was Apple speaking directly to its investors and to the business press. Apple wants them to understand the Mac business. Cook outlined six main points which he claims Apple believes are the reasons behind the four-year-long growth in Mac sales:

  1. Better computers
  2. Better software
  3. Compatibility
  4. Vista
  5. Marketing
  6. Retail Stores

"You may wonder," Cook said, "why is Vista on the list. I think it's fair to say that Vista hasn't lived up to everything Microsoft had hoped it would. And consequently, it's opened doors for a lot of people to consider switching to the Mac.&q1sup>

What dnot appear on that list is price. This is not to say price is irrelevant to the Mac, or that Apple is somehow immune to the circumstances of the economy, simply that price is not and has never been one of main factors in the Mac's success. Cook's list isn't marketing bull**** ? it's an accurate, succinct description of Apple's computer business.s.

Experienced

mrt2

Posted
Posted
I concede one point: that is a nice rig; wish I had a few extra grand for some of that. 'Tis a shame its running OSX instead of Ubuntu or Vista 64. ;)

As far as anti-virus software slowing my rig down...get one that's good and have a decent rig and it won't. I don't even bother turning it off for anything except Crysis; Avast doesn't affect the system at all. Your logic is akin to "I don't lock my front door because robberies aren't a problem in my town". That's fine and all...until it happens. And if the Leopard launch was any indication, Mac security looks to start becoming more of an issue if the next one is less secure as Leopard was during launch (I sawm ore than once that Leopard supposively was less secure than its predecessors, at least initially; I don't claim this as a fact, but it sure seemed to be a big deal a while back...); not to mention as the user base grows, it will become a more lucrative target to attack. Meanwhile, Vista took steps to become even more secure than XP was, and I expect Windows 7 to continue this trend. Needless to say, I'll be watching both Win7 and the next OSX (what's its name? I can't recall...) with great interest on the security front.

I could be wrong, of course, but I don't think so. ^_^

Great thing about this box is I can run Ubuntu (even though I really prefer gentoo) and Vista 64 AT THE SAME time and still no slow downs or hiccups. :-)

I wouldn't necessarily agree with the whole robbery analogy. I don't bother with an anti-virus on this because there are no virus's for it... what would be the point of putting one on here? Also I've ran windows and all the latest and greatest windows OS's my entire life up until Christmas when I treated myself to this machine. In all my years of Windows I've never once used an anti-virus on my system; not for windows 95, 98, ME, 2000, XP, or Vista... I'm just smart enough not to get a virus or spyware. I was just stating that the fact that when I'm on these machines I have to be weary of files and be on the lookout for things that could destroy my machine is just lame. :no:

In my opinion and JUST IN MY OPINION there is not a more versatile machine than this. I can run every OS that I would like and all side by side if I need to without rebooting, logging out, or dual booting. I run all OS's at native speed. I can run any app I want whether it be a Linux App, Windows App, or OS X App and run them all natively without any hacks, altered EFI chips, or fear of my software breaking due to system updates or software updates... I mean seriously... as far as computing goes what gets better than this? So no I don't think it's a shame that it's running Leopard at all.

Mmm... 16 spaces/screens/desktops and the bottom 4 are different OS's... Yummy. :drool:

Grand Master

Yusuf M. Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted
If most people have a PC in their household, why would they buy a mac instead of a cheaper PC? How would it explain the double growth sales--certainly not a straight math from a supply/demand curve? Straight economics surely doesn't explain Apple's growth.

http://daringfireball.net/2008/10/listen_to_tim_cook

I was comparing the differing growth rates of PCs and Macs. I wasn't trying to explain the high growth rate of Macs. Perhaps an analogy will better demonstrate my thoughts...

Think of the PC industry as a cup of water that's three quarters (3/4) full. And think of the Mac industry as a cup of water that's less than a quarter (<1/4) full. It's easier to see changes when you fill the Mac cup because there's so much room to grow. As with the PC, it's nearly full so any small changes won't make a huge difference and there's not that much room left to grow.

Grand Master

giga Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted
I was comparing the differing growth rates of PCs and Macs. I wasn't trying to explain the high growth rate of Macs. Perhaps an analogy will better demonstrate my thoughts...

Think of the PC industry as a cup of water that's three quarters (3/4) full. And think of the Mac industry as a cup of water that's less than a quarter (<1/4) full. It's easier to see changes when you fill the Mac cup because there's so much room to grow. As with the PC, it's nearly full so any small changes won't make a huge difference and there's not that much room left to grow.

But put in the context of 80% of users already having a PC and wanting an upgrade. For their next computer, they have a choice between a mac or a pc--why would they choose the more expensive option?

Grand Master

LTD

Posted
Posted
But put in the context of 80% of users already having a PC and wanting an upgrade. For their next computer, they have a choice between a mac or a pc--why would they choose the more expensive option?

Same reasons I chose it. Same reasons I choose to stick with it.

People act from mixed motives and have mixed needs, however. I guess some place price as a primary determinant. Others look to different factors in their decisionmaking. I'll tell you this, though: if price/cost was a primary factor for me (at the moment), I probably wouldn't be getting a Mac. Or at least not a new one.

Grand Master

Cormier6083

Posted
Posted

Overpriced to Joe Consumer... yes. But taking into account all of the work that goes behind each machine, it quickly seems to justify the price.

Plus, you get award winning customer satisfaction rates.

Like my dad always said:

If it's cheap, it ain't worth it.

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The technical specifications of the Ryzen 7 9800X3D are given in the table below: Specification Value Architecture Zen 5 Cores / Threads 8 / 16 Base Clock 4.7 GHz Max Boost Clock Up to 5.2 GHz L1 Cache 640 KB L2 Cache 8 MB L3 Cache 96 MB Total Cache 104 MB CPU Core Process TSMC 4nm FinFET I/O Die Process TSMC 6nm FinFET Socket AM5 Default TDP 120W Max Temperature (Tjmax) 95°C Thermal Solution Not included Memory Type DDR5 Max Capacity 256 GB Memory Speeds 2x1R: DDR5-5600 2x2R: DDR5-5600 4x1R: DDR5-3600 4x2R: DDR5-3600 PCIe Version PCIe 5.0 PCIe Lanes (Total/Usable) 28 / 24 USB 3.2 Gen 2 (10Gbps) 4 USB 2.0 1 Graphics Cores 2 CU RDNA 2 Frequency 2200 MHz DisplayPort over USB-C Yes Overclocking Unlocked Up next we have the tech specs for the MSI MAG X870 TOMAHAWK WIFI Motherboard: Specification Value Chipset AMD X870 CPU Support AMD Ryzen 9000 / 8000 / 7000 Series Desktop Processors Socket AM5 Memory Slots 4 × DDR5 UDIMM Maximum Memory Capacity 256GB Memory Support DDR5 8400–5600 MT/s (OC), DDR5 5600–4800 MT/s (JEDEC) Integrated Graphics Outputs 1 × HDMI 2.1 FRL (up to 8K 60Hz) 2 × USB4 Type-C with DisplayPort 1.4 HBR3 (up to 4K 60Hz) Expansion Slots PCI_E1: PCIe 5.0 x16 (CPU) PCI_E2: PCIe 3.0 x1 (Chipset) PCI_E3: PCIe 4.0 x4 (Chipset) Audio Realtek ALC4080 Codec 7.1-Channel USB High Performance Audio Supports up to 32-bit/384kHz playback on front panel S/PDIF output M.2 Slots 4 × M.2 M2_1: PCIe 5.0 x4 (CPU, 22110/2280) M2_2: PCIe 5.0 x4 (CPU, 2280/2260) M2_3: PCIe 4.0 x2 (Chipset, 2280/2260) M2_4: PCIe 4.0 x4 (Chipset, 2280/2260) SATA Ports 4 × SATA 6Gb/s RAID Support RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 for M.2 NVMe storage devices Rear USB Ports 4 × USB 2.0 3 × USB 5Gbps Type-A 2 × USB 10Gbps Type-A 1 × USB 10Gbps Type-C 2 × USB4 40Gbps Type-C Front USB Headers 4 × USB 2.0 4 × USB 5Gbps Type-A 1 × USB 20Gbps Type-C LAN Realtek 8126-CG 5G LAN Wireless Wi-Fi 7 (M.2 Key-E module pre-installed) Supports 2.4GHz / 5GHz / 6GHz bands Up to 5.8Gbps Supports 802.11 a/b/g/n/ac/ax/be Bluetooth Bluetooth 5.4, MLO, 4KQAM Internal Power Connectors 1 × 24-pin ATX Power 2 × CPU Power Connectors 1 × PCIe 8-pin Power Connector Fan Headers 1 × CPU Fan 1 × Combo Fan (Pump/System) 6 × System Fan RGB Headers 3 × Addressable V2 RGB (JARGB_V2) 1 × RGB LED (JRGB) Other Internal Headers 1 × EZ Conn-header 2 × Front Panel Headers 1 × Chassis Intrusion 1 × Front Audio 1 × TPM 2.0 Header Debug Features 4 × EZ Debug LEDs 1 × EZ Digit Debug LED Rear I/O Ports Clear CMOS Button Flash BIOS Button HDMI 2 × USB 40Gbps Type-C 1 × USB 10Gbps Type-C 4 × USB 10Gbps Type-A 3 × USB 5Gbps Type-A 4 × USB 2.0 5G LAN Port Wi-Fi/Bluetooth Antenna Connectors Audio Connectors Form Factor ATX The Samsung 990 PRO is a PCIe Gen4 NVMe SSD and still one of the fastest drives available today for under $500. Speaking of fast, sequential reads and writes are rated at 7450 MB/s and 6900 MB/s, respectively. The random throughputs for reads and writes are 1400K IOPS and 1550K IOPS, respectively. The 990 PRO is based on Samsung's 7th Gen V-NAND flash, and it too is TLC. It packs 2 gigs of LPDDR4 DRAM cache, which helps the random performance. The endurance rating for this is 1200 TBW (terabytes written), which should be sufficient for most users. The Samsung 990 PRO is compatible with the PlayStation 5, but if you are going to use the 990 PRO on a PC, check out the Samsung Magician app that lets you track your drive's health, update its firmware, customize various settings, and more. The tech specs are given below: Specification Value Interface PCIe Gen 4.0 x4, NVMe 2.0 Form Factor M.2 2280 Controller Samsung In-house Controller NAND Flash 3D TLC DRAM Cache 2GB LPDDR4 Sequential Read (Max) 7,450 MB/s Sequential Write (Max) 6,900 MB/s Random Read (4K) Up to 1,400,000 IOPS Random Write (4K) Up to 1,550,000 IOPS TBW (Endurance) 1,200 TBW MTBF 1,500,000 hours Operating Temperature 0°C to 70°C Storage Temperature -40°C to 85°C Shock Resistance 1,500G / 0.5ms Heatsink No Get the combo deal at this link: AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D, Samsung 990 PRO 2TB, MSI MAG X870 TOMAHAWK WIFI motherboard, Cooler Master Elite Liquid 240: $784.99 + $25 off with promo code FTTF77: $759.99 (Sold and Shipped by Newegg US) Good to know This Newegg deal is U.S. specific, and not available in other regions unless specified. We only use first-party seller links (at the time of article publishing); ensure that you purchase from a first-party seller link only. Check out Today's Deals on Amazon | or our recent tech deals. Become a Prime member (for Students or SNAP) via Neowin Get Prime Access - Prime for half price (for qualifying Medicaid, EBT, SNAP) Subscribe to Prime Video, Audible Plus, Music Unlimited or Kindle Unlimited via Neowin As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
    • AMD confirms 26.6.2 FSR driver breaks on many Windows PCs

      By sphbecker · Posted

      I heard from a lot of people that driver support for the latest games when RDNA first came out (Radeon 5000 series) was pretty bad, but if you didn't buy the card on day one, or were not trying to play the latest titles, then you were isolated from that issue. Other than that, it's been good and only getting better.

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