Mac's - are they overpriced?

By morphen
in Apple (macOS)

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Experienced

mrt2

Posted
Posted (edited)
Easy, build a Skulltrail. Dual Quad 3.2Ghz, supports QuadSLI, 16Gb Ram, im sure if you loaded osx86 onto it it would run rings round your Mac Pro.

Yeah but that wouldn't be cheaper than what I payed for this... The whole point was building a PC for less than a Mac that outperforms it... Or am I missing something? Also I can build a Mac Pro with those same specs if I wanted to spend that kind of money... You didn't prove that the PC would run rings around a Mac you just proved that higher specs perform better. That's like claiming a V8 out performs a V6... which falls into the DUH category.

By the way you've also made your point mute and proved my initial point. This conversation is best suited for DIY vs Retail because with your same logic then Dell is overpriced and Alienware, Falcon, and the like are EXTREMELY overpriced for what you could do yourself at home. Those same specs you listed if you built yourself WOULD be cheaper than if you bought it from Apple it also would be cheaper than if you purchased it from Dell or any other online retailer. For the record this is a DIY vs Retail argument and NOT a DIY vs Apple or a Wintel VS Apple argument.

Edited by mrt2
Grand Master

Ricardo Gil

Posted
Posted
Ah yes the universal answer... pretty simple really, its not as easy as just updating but all it needs is a prepatch and a postpatch after running the update from Software Update. Id rather have to "suffer" the inconvenience every now and again than become a smug arrogant mac owner.

Talk about generalizing... I own a Mac but I also use a Dell Precision with XP all day at work and both work just fine. Am I different for owning a Mac?

"Hey, that guy has a Mac, what an arrogant sob...", really, do you believe that's the case?

Do you have a problem with people owning Macs?

Grand Master

Richard Hammond

Posted
Posted
Oh come on, if everything was as simple as that everyone would be on osx86. Scramble through the osx86 thread if you want to and see the countless amount of errors, kernel panics, driver failures, hangings from a simple update. Majority of the stuff that osx86 promotes anyway are illegal--rampant copyright infringement with their "kalyway" patches and dvds.

It is that simple for me, i run a dual core atom based osx86 machine all i needed was a pre patch then install the apple update then a post patch, reboot 2 times and i still have a fully working machine.

Talk about generalizing... I own a Mac but I also use a Dell Precision with XP all day at work and both work just fine. Am I different for owning a Mac?

"Hey, that guy has a Mac, what an arrogant sob...", really, do you believe that's the case?

Do you have a problem with people owning Macs?

Yeah generalizing is good, just like most of the people in this thread calling themselves "informed" people for using a mac insinuiating that everyone who uses a PC is an uninformed users just waiting to find the wonder of macintosh. Im not calling all mac owners, but going by the number of mac owners in this thread talking like steve jobs is god and the "mac experience" is the best thing ever because "it just works" its a large number of them.

I dont care about people owning Macs, im just tired of the buzzwords "it just works" and the "mac experience", its ridiculous.

Grand Master

giga Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted
It is that simple for me, i run a dual core atom based osx86 machine all i needed was a pre patch then install the apple update then a post patch, reboot 2 times and i still have a fully working machine.

That's fine and dandy, but you can't assume your experience will be mimicked by every other osx86 setup.

Problems with drivers and hardware happen and that's something that people just don't want to risk or deal with it. I read one guy's experience on that thread where he updated to 10.5.5 perfectly fine from the patch but then discovered that his DVD burner would no longer burn and just read as a regular drive. Another person who updated smoothly found his Time Machine stopped working--it would no longer read volumes.

Grand Master

se7en.hu

Posted
Posted
What he means is that you can't mix and match parts and change things out as yourself. This is true unless you've got a Mac Pro.

Ah ok.

Well yea, that does kinda suck. I mean I'd still buy their laptops cause they look sweet and the build quality awesome . I would love to be able to build myself a sweet ass desktop though, even though I can get by perfectly using a laptop as a main pc, i'd love to tinker with hardware again :)

Proficient

39 Thieves

Posted
Posted (edited)
Interesting. Since most Mac users are/were Windows users (at work, mostly) and have made an informed choice.

PROVE IT

Switchers.

I chose to dump Windows after over 4 years of home use. Not because it was inherently a bad system. Did the job. But trying out a Mac on display at the time simply blew me away. Never looked back. And frankly, my experiences with Apple have prejudiced me in a way against other manufacturers. I haven't regretted it yet, however.

It's usually the clueless Wal-Mart shopper type that goes in for the PC, that is. the average retail PC, since that is what's on display and looks and works the same as the one at work.

PROVE IT

Then again, you find newbs in both camps. One is just a newb with more money to spend, it seems.

In my experience, most Apple users are people that are essentially clueless about computers in general, and used whatever they were used to from school, or had grown up using. Or, more typically, they think they are far more knowledgeable than they are in reality, and know just enough to get themselves into trouble, then blame their system for their inadequacies.

I have never, ever, ever ever ever, not one single time, met what you would call a 'Switcher', that actually stayed "Switched".

So prove the basis for your views, if you would be so kind. Or are you still just trying to perpetuate your (failed) elitism in whatever way you can?

Back on topic, again, I fully plan on buying a new Macbook, when I get around to it. Their portables are definately worth every penny, if not more, all things considered. Their desktop offerings are less than worthless IMHO.

Edited by 39 Thieves
Grand Master

Ricardo Gil

Posted
Posted
Yeah generalizing is good, just like most of the people in this thread calling themselves "informed" people for using a mac insinuiating that everyone who uses a PC is an uninformed users just waiting to find the wonder of macintosh. Im not calling all mac owners, but going by the number of mac owners in this thread talking like steve jobs is god and the "mac experience" is the best thing ever because "it just works" its a large number of them.

I dont care about people owning Macs, im just tired of the buzzwords "it just works" and the "mac experience", its ridiculous.

You'll always have zealots from each camp obviously, just don't let it get to you. Macs are neither better or worse, they're just an option when it comes to computers. Also Steve Jobs isn't God obviously :).

I say use whatever you like, if it works then it's all good. As for the price btw, I already gave my opinion on it.

Experienced

mrt2

Posted
Posted
In my experience, most Apple users are people that are essentially clueless about computers in general, and used whatever they were used to from school, or had grown up using. Or, more typically, they think they are far more knowledgeable than they are in reality, and know just enough to get themselves into trouble, then blame their system for their inadequacies.

I have never, ever, ever ever ever, not one single time, met what you would call a 'Switcher', that actually stayed "Switched".

So prove the basis for your views, if you would be so kind. Or are you still just trying to perpetuate your (failed) elitism in whatever way you can?

Back on topic, again, I fully plan on buying a new Macbook, when I get around to it. Their portables are definately worth every penny, if not more, all things considered. Their desktop offerings are less than worthless IMHO.

I grew up using Windows and hated Macs with a passion... years ago I was on the opposite end of this argument as I was Windows fan boy. Supporting windows problems are my career (and I'm not talking about user just user errors, I'm also talking about true bugs/problems/shotty implementation/bad programming) I'm also a switcher and I've stayed switched. Pleased to meet you.

Now you know 1 person who has switched and has 'stayed switched'. BTW just like he can't prove his claims you also cannot prove that you've never come in contact with a switcher who stayed switched.

Mmmm... true objective thinking. It's what separates us from zealots who blow up things because of a one sided and narrow view of the world.

Contributor

TitanTiger

Posted
Posted
In my experience, most Apple users are people that are essentially clueless about computers in general, and used whatever they were used to from school, or had grown up using. Or, more typically, they think they are far more knowledgeable than they are in reality, and know just enough to get themselves into trouble, then blame their system for their inadequacies.

I have never, ever, ever ever ever, not one single time, met what you would call a 'Switcher', that actually stayed "Switched".

So prove the basis for your views, if you would be so kind. Or are you still just trying to perpetuate your (failed) elitism in whatever way you can?

Back on topic, again, I fully plan on buying a new Macbook, when I get around to it. Their portables are definately worth every penny, if not more, all things considered. Their desktop offerings are less than worthless IMHO.

Then you have a narrow field of experience. For instance, my experience is utterly different and I've seen it replayed time and again. In particular, I'd worked for years in Windows from back in the 3.1 days. I actually used to give the Mac users in our marketing department a hard time over all this.

Then my job changed. I was going to be working with graphic designers more and rather than purchase a $1000 Windows version of Quark, the company just got me an iMac and used one of their Quark for Mac licenses. So I worked side by side with a Windows box and a Mac. Despite my resistance, within 3 months or so, I'd moved every possible task over to the Mac and made it my primary computer, only using the Windows box for an order entry system our company had. After going that way for a year, the conversion became complete when I replaced my Gateway desktop at home with a G4 iMac.

I'm still using that iMac at home. I'm saving to upgrade it to a newer one but the machine is still rock solid 6 years later. I've never had to blow away an install. Never had any spyware or virus stuff. Aside from a little dust, it looks as good as the day I bought it. It's been awesome. When I upgrade, I'm keeping it to be the kids' computer.

I could give you dozens of similar stories where people had one attitude about Macs, got an opportunity to be exposed to one or use one for a while and they liked it. They liked the look and feel. They liked the elegant simplicity of the OS (while still being powerful if you want to go under the hood). The notion that "it just works" was a prevalent feeling before Apple marketing drove that home with the Mac v. PC ads.

I'm not claiming that all people who use PCs are uninformed, but many are. They are uninformed about the software that's available on Macs, they are uninformed about pricing comparisons and a lot of other Mac mythology. Not all are but most I encounter have little to no recent experience with Macs.

But use whatever you want. Obviously if you love to build you own and love tinkering with stuff, a Mac isn't for you. But the vast majority of people don't build their own PC anymore than they build their own car or microwave oven. They just want to buy one that does what they want it to do well. So be it.

Grand Master

Southern Patriot

Posted
Posted

Macs are only "overpriced" when you compare them against systems that are not exactly equal in specs and configuration. Apple tends to include everything as standard that is optional with computers from HP, Dell, or some other company. When you reconfigure that HP or Dell to include everything that is included on the Mac, you usually end up with a system that is the same price or even higher than the Mac.

It's sort of the same as comparing the price of an Xbox 360 and a Playstation 3. Yes, the PS3 at first appears to be more expensive, until you realize that the 360 doesn't include wireless networking out of the box (a $99 option), has no capability of playing Blu-Ray discs (the outdated HD-DVD drive is still available some places for around $49, but it is pretty much useless as there are no new releases on that format), and has a smaller hard drive (for the Pro version at least).

Grand Master

LTD

Posted
Posted

I really don't think the likelihood is high of people switching *back* to Windows. LOL!

There are reasons people switch to Mac in the first place.

In any case, "overpriced" is an extremely relative, subjective term. If you want something enough you'll get it. It's perceived value vs. actual cost.

I really don't care that HP or Dell are offering similar specs for less. I won't be happy with those, regardless.

And if the cost of a Mac is within one's budget (more or less), the whole overpriced argument falls apart. There really is no "fair" pricing. It's based on what the market is perceived to bear. Based on this, and demand, and the perceived (and realized) benefits of a Mac, they aren't overpriced. Look at their sales. Look at Apple's growth since late 2005. Where exactly is the problem?

In fact, if Apple measurably lowered their prices, I'd start wondering where they cut corners. Others like me would probably do the same.

Grand Master

Quillz

Posted
Posted
I really don't think the likelihood is high of people switching *back* to Windows. LOL!

There are reasons people switch to Mac in the first place.

In any case, "overpriced" is an extremely relative, subjective term. If you want something enough you'll get it. It's perceived value vs. actual cost.

I really don't care that HP or Dell are offering similar specs for less. I won't be happy with those, regardless.

And if the cost of a Mac is within one's budget (more or less), the whole overpriced argument falls apart. There really is no "fair" pricing. It's based on what the market is perceived to bear. Based on this, and demand, and the perceived (and realized) benefits of a Mac, they aren't overpriced. Look at their sales. Look at Apple's growth since late 2005. Where exactly is the problem?

In fact, if Apple measurably lowered their prices, I'd start wondering where they cut corners. Others like me would probably do the same.

You'd be quite surprised at the amount of people that switch from Mac to the Windows. Not everyone is an Apple cultist such as yourself, and for many people, the OS leaves a lot to be desired.

Grand Master

ViperAFK

Posted
Posted
Interesting. Since most Mac users are/were Windows users (at work, mostly) and have made an informed choice.

Switchers.

I chose to dump Windows after over 4 years of home use. Not because it was inherently a bad system. Did the job. But trying out a Mac on display at the time simply blew me away. Never looked back. And frankly, my experiences with Apple have prejudiced me in a way against other manufacturers. I haven't regretted it yet, however.

It's usually the clueless Wal-Mart shopper type that goes in for the PC, that is. the average retail PC, since that is what's on display and looks and works the same as the one at work.

Then again, you find newbs in both camps. One is just a newb with more money to spend, it seems.

I have used tons of mac in school and I am very familiar with macs/osx, and also linux. but I chose to use vista. I'm not just waiting to be hit with the magic wonder of mac as mentioned in a previous post.

I definitely agree that you find newbs in both camps though.

Grand Master

LTD

Posted
Posted
I have used tons of mac in school and I am very familiar with macs/osx, and also linux. but I chose to use vista. I'm not just waiting to be hit with the magic wonder of mac as mentioned in a previous post.

I definitely agree that you find newbs in both camps though.

Did the Apple sparkles fall on your head? That has to happen for you to be affected.

It's no longer enough to just drink the kool-aid.

:p

(wow, already 13 pages. Fun, fun!)

Rising Star

ThehAWKs

Posted
Posted

Yeah Mac's Are over priced SO WHAT they are if you cant get one does that make it unfair "NO"

to tell you the truth the day Apple Moved Over from PPC to intel was the day i started using a Hackintosh the last Apple Computers i have now are "Power Mac G4 (FW 800), PowerBook G4 (1.67GHz), iMac G5 (2.1GHz).

and now with the new MacBook/MacBook Pro to repair them are even worst because of the unibody,

Screen and keyboard not designed to be serviceable if broken must replace whole top or bottom half of laptop and cost will be more.

Enthusiast

kalam_

Posted
Posted

I've had to use macs all through elementary, middle school, and high school and I still choose to use vista. Why? Because it simply works and fits my needs perfectly. My Asus G50V-A1 I got for college runs circles around any mac equivalent and it was only $1600.

I assumed the magic dust was asbestos, so I avoided it. :(

Experienced

mspeak

Posted
Posted

roffles:

MB_Compare_Small.jpg

MBP_Compare_Small.jpg

http://gizmodo.com/5065133/the-truth-about-the-apple-tax

As you can see, in a purely spec-based, part-to-dollar fight, PCs win. HP's dv3500t handily beats the new cheap MacBook in specs—same Intel chip, more RAM, discrete graphics for over $100 less. Similarly, HP's dv5t essentially matches for the high-end MacBook Pro's specs for $1,000 less, and you can add Blu-ray playback and a 400GB hard drive—features not available on the Pro—and still save more than $600. Asus's m50V stacks up similarly for an even lower base.
Grand Master

Chicane-UK Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted
I dont care about people owning Macs, im just tired of the buzzwords "it just works" and the "mac experience", its ridiculous.

And I'm sick of seeing people who've made their own choice getting scrutinised by people who think they know it all. It isn't ridiculous - if so many people are banging on about it, then maybe there is something in it! What makes YOU right, and them wrong?!

To be honest I think for a lot of people who own Macs, it's simply down to desperation to have a viable alternative to Windows, and something that just worked (there go the buzzwords again..) unlike Linux which (whilst an ever improving product) just doesn't have the spit and polish and the feeling of being a complete package that OS X does. The benefit of OS X of course being that in many ways it's better than Windows and you get the added benefit of getting a complete package complete with beautifully designed hardware.

What justification would satiate your dislike for those who use buzzwords to exonerate their purchase? Does it have to be a technical justification?!

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The technical specifications of the Ryzen 7 9800X3D are given in the table below: Specification Value Architecture Zen 5 Cores / Threads 8 / 16 Base Clock 4.7 GHz Max Boost Clock Up to 5.2 GHz L1 Cache 640 KB L2 Cache 8 MB L3 Cache 96 MB Total Cache 104 MB CPU Core Process TSMC 4nm FinFET I/O Die Process TSMC 6nm FinFET Socket AM5 Default TDP 120W Max Temperature (Tjmax) 95°C Thermal Solution Not included Memory Type DDR5 Max Capacity 256 GB Memory Speeds 2x1R: DDR5-5600 2x2R: DDR5-5600 4x1R: DDR5-3600 4x2R: DDR5-3600 PCIe Version PCIe 5.0 PCIe Lanes (Total/Usable) 28 / 24 USB 3.2 Gen 2 (10Gbps) 4 USB 2.0 1 Graphics Cores 2 CU RDNA 2 Frequency 2200 MHz DisplayPort over USB-C Yes Overclocking Unlocked Up next we have the tech specs for the MSI MAG X870 TOMAHAWK WIFI Motherboard: Specification Value Chipset AMD X870 CPU Support AMD Ryzen 9000 / 8000 / 7000 Series Desktop Processors Socket AM5 Memory Slots 4 × DDR5 UDIMM Maximum Memory Capacity 256GB Memory Support DDR5 8400–5600 MT/s (OC), DDR5 5600–4800 MT/s (JEDEC) Integrated Graphics Outputs 1 × HDMI 2.1 FRL (up to 8K 60Hz) 2 × USB4 Type-C with DisplayPort 1.4 HBR3 (up to 4K 60Hz) Expansion Slots PCI_E1: PCIe 5.0 x16 (CPU) PCI_E2: PCIe 3.0 x1 (Chipset) PCI_E3: PCIe 4.0 x4 (Chipset) Audio Realtek ALC4080 Codec 7.1-Channel USB High Performance Audio Supports up to 32-bit/384kHz playback on front panel S/PDIF output M.2 Slots 4 × M.2 M2_1: PCIe 5.0 x4 (CPU, 22110/2280) M2_2: PCIe 5.0 x4 (CPU, 2280/2260) M2_3: PCIe 4.0 x2 (Chipset, 2280/2260) M2_4: PCIe 4.0 x4 (Chipset, 2280/2260) SATA Ports 4 × SATA 6Gb/s RAID Support RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 for M.2 NVMe storage devices Rear USB Ports 4 × USB 2.0 3 × USB 5Gbps Type-A 2 × USB 10Gbps Type-A 1 × USB 10Gbps Type-C 2 × USB4 40Gbps Type-C Front USB Headers 4 × USB 2.0 4 × USB 5Gbps Type-A 1 × USB 20Gbps Type-C LAN Realtek 8126-CG 5G LAN Wireless Wi-Fi 7 (M.2 Key-E module pre-installed) Supports 2.4GHz / 5GHz / 6GHz bands Up to 5.8Gbps Supports 802.11 a/b/g/n/ac/ax/be Bluetooth Bluetooth 5.4, MLO, 4KQAM Internal Power Connectors 1 × 24-pin ATX Power 2 × CPU Power Connectors 1 × PCIe 8-pin Power Connector Fan Headers 1 × CPU Fan 1 × Combo Fan (Pump/System) 6 × System Fan RGB Headers 3 × Addressable V2 RGB (JARGB_V2) 1 × RGB LED (JRGB) Other Internal Headers 1 × EZ Conn-header 2 × Front Panel Headers 1 × Chassis Intrusion 1 × Front Audio 1 × TPM 2.0 Header Debug Features 4 × EZ Debug LEDs 1 × EZ Digit Debug LED Rear I/O Ports Clear CMOS Button Flash BIOS Button HDMI 2 × USB 40Gbps Type-C 1 × USB 10Gbps Type-C 4 × USB 10Gbps Type-A 3 × USB 5Gbps Type-A 4 × USB 2.0 5G LAN Port Wi-Fi/Bluetooth Antenna Connectors Audio Connectors Form Factor ATX The Samsung 990 PRO is a PCIe Gen4 NVMe SSD and still one of the fastest drives available today for under $500. Speaking of fast, sequential reads and writes are rated at 7450 MB/s and 6900 MB/s, respectively. The random throughputs for reads and writes are 1400K IOPS and 1550K IOPS, respectively. The 990 PRO is based on Samsung's 7th Gen V-NAND flash, and it too is TLC. It packs 2 gigs of LPDDR4 DRAM cache, which helps the random performance. The endurance rating for this is 1200 TBW (terabytes written), which should be sufficient for most users. The Samsung 990 PRO is compatible with the PlayStation 5, but if you are going to use the 990 PRO on a PC, check out the Samsung Magician app that lets you track your drive's health, update its firmware, customize various settings, and more. The tech specs are given below: Specification Value Interface PCIe Gen 4.0 x4, NVMe 2.0 Form Factor M.2 2280 Controller Samsung In-house Controller NAND Flash 3D TLC DRAM Cache 2GB LPDDR4 Sequential Read (Max) 7,450 MB/s Sequential Write (Max) 6,900 MB/s Random Read (4K) Up to 1,400,000 IOPS Random Write (4K) Up to 1,550,000 IOPS TBW (Endurance) 1,200 TBW MTBF 1,500,000 hours Operating Temperature 0°C to 70°C Storage Temperature -40°C to 85°C Shock Resistance 1,500G / 0.5ms Heatsink No Get the combo deal at this link: AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D, Samsung 990 PRO 2TB, MSI MAG X870 TOMAHAWK WIFI motherboard, Cooler Master Elite Liquid 240: $784.99 + $25 off with promo code FTTF77: $759.99 (Sold and Shipped by Newegg US) Good to know This Newegg deal is U.S. specific, and not available in other regions unless specified. We only use first-party seller links (at the time of article publishing); ensure that you purchase from a first-party seller link only. Check out Today's Deals on Amazon | or our recent tech deals. Become a Prime member (for Students or SNAP) via Neowin Get Prime Access - Prime for half price (for qualifying Medicaid, EBT, SNAP) Subscribe to Prime Video, Audible Plus, Music Unlimited or Kindle Unlimited via Neowin As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
    • AMD confirms 26.6.2 FSR driver breaks on many Windows PCs

      By sphbecker · Posted

      I heard from a lot of people that driver support for the latest games when RDNA first came out (Radeon 5000 series) was pretty bad, but if you didn't buy the card on day one, or were not trying to play the latest titles, then you were isolated from that issue. Other than that, it's been good and only getting better.

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