Apple responds to Microsoft ads: "a PC is no bargain"

[Subject Delta]

Typical Apple. Seeing as a PC can do everything a mac can, and some other things it can't (gaming for one) I don't really get their argument

[_bobcat_ Veteran]

:sleep:

Unscientific and clearly biased.

Some savvy PC buyers might be aware that they can find free antivirus tools on the Internet, but between the fraudulent malware posing as free antivirus tools and the heavily promoted, multi-billion dollar security industry that staunchly defends its right to profit from adding the security that Microsoft left out of Windows, there's clearly a lot of PC buyers who will end up suckered into paying that extra $150 over the short lifetime of their PC to keep it as clean as the Mac would be without any antivirus software.

The implication here is that OS X is inherently safer, that Apple have designed it to be more secure and made an especial effort for that purpose.

Well, they may have, but, if so, why doesn't the author deal with the issue directly and discuss it properly?

All that has been done is the FUD approach, use stereotypes and abuse the ignorance of consumers.

No real evidence has been produced, I conclude that the author is lazy and this article can not be trusted.

[bob21]

HP Generic ? Lets face it HP's products are far more compelling than Apples .

• Tablet PC's
  
• Netbooks
  
• Laptops
  
• Desktops
  

Ill take one of those over a bunch of baige boxes crammed with mid range components at high end prices any day of the week .

[etempest]

The mud flinging is kinda amusing, but something simple, the fact that apple responded in this way shows how apple feel's this line of advertising has some kind of effect.

[Lee G. Veteran]

It would be really nice if these companies would stop acting like children and go back to worrying about their own products instead.

I don't think I can say anything more than QFT!

[Ez8]

What a weak argument..

People buy PCs when they look @ the spec sheet from Apple. Not everyone is clueless about computers anymore; people conduct research upon performance and preference(being either PC or Apple).

[Simon Veteran]

While I agree that the Mac Pro is far overpriced for the average user, it is a workstation. Not the same as a desktop computer. The inside is designed so you can take things out and add them easily, and it is built at professional quality. Still too pricey, but not as bad as most people make it out to be.

Now, I'm going to ask one more time. Would everyone stop getting butthurt over these ads? From Microsoft and Apple.

Apple and its fanboys are upset at Microsoft for making the ads.

Microsoft and its fanboys are upset at Apple and its fanboys for being upset at Microsoft's ads.

Microsoft and its fanboys are upset at Apple for making their ads.

Apple and its fanboys are upset at Microsoft and its fanboys for being upset at Apple's ads.

Does no one see the hypocrisy in every single one of the four statements above? Severe hypocrisy?

[Solid Knight]

Counterpoints:

1. 699 + 150 + 129 < 999

2. There are a wide variety of 699 laptops but Apple only has one 999 MacBook.

3. Not everyone has 999 at the time of purchase.

4. Costs that add up over years is more acceptable than a huge upfront cost.

5. Chances are the 699 laptop will have better hardware than the 999 MacBook.

6. Apple Stores are few and far between. Free support is not accessible to a large portion of the US/World.

7. The 129 additional cost isn't inevitable and thus should not be part of the equation.

[(Spork)]

LOL @ apple !

[Ez8]

LOL @ apple !

If they really wanted to speak their minds they would of made an ad about it, but Apple is getting their arse kicked by these ads so they speak only in vowels.

[NEVER85]

Never mind that all those PC programs don't offer much in terms of tight integration like the Mac's iLife titles.

Tight integration...don't Mac users often complain about this exact aspect of Windows?

[_bobcat_ Veteran]

While I agree that the Mac Pro is far overpriced for the average user, it is a workstation. Not the same as a desktop computer. The inside is designed so you can take things out and add them easily, and it is built at professional quality. Still too pricey, but not as bad as most people make it out to be.

Now, I'm going to ask one more time. Would everyone stop getting butthurt over these ads? From Microsoft and Apple.

Apple and its fanboys are upset at Microsoft for making the ads.

Microsoft and its fanboys are upset at Apple and its fanboys for being upset at Microsoft's ads.

Microsoft and its fanboys are upset at Apple for making their ads.

Apple and its fanboys are upset at Microsoft and its fanboys for being upset at Apple's ads.

Does no one see the hypocrisy in every single one of the four statements above? Severe hypocrisy?

Indeed. I had to make the previous comment because I dislike such lame tactics, but overall I find it rather bizarre that people get so upset over the value for money issue. I presume people dislike the idea that they can't easily justify their preferences, which is silly, because as long as you are happy with what you have, you don't need to..

[Dischordiant]

While I agree that the Mac Pro is far overpriced for the average user, it is a workstation. Not the same as a desktop computer. The inside is designed so you can take things out and add them easily, and it is built at professional quality. Still too pricey, but not as bad as most people make it out to be.

Ok, so other than the workstation Mac Pro, what are the options for someone that wants a home system? An iMac laptop-on-a-stick that is essentially an iAppliance, to be tossed when it's fulfilled it's usefulness, since it is near-impossible to upgrade in any easy or measurable way, or the Mini, which is only a serious option for someone who really, truly wants to carry around their precious Apple in their man-purse.

The Apple portables are the bread 'n butter, yet still rather mediocre when compared with similar price range Wintel laptops, but their desktop, home use offerings are laughable at best.

[TonyLock]

The Apple comparison of a $600 PC to a $1200 is stupid. It's like their early iSwitch ads where they were comparing OSX to Windows 3.1. I guess Apple are hoping that since the majority of computer users are stupid, they wont see the difference.

[danisflying527]

If apple and Microsoft could just work together like mature men, we wouldn't have this sort of problem. Hey, imagine a apple/microsoft OS. Built by both, and one clean, neat design. and SECURE

But that would NEVER work and would be a huge FAIL. Each company relies on their innovations to move forward. Competition is good. Apple makes something fantastic and so microsoft has to make something better. And thats how our technology moves forward.

[Dischordiant]

Indeed. I had to make the previous comment because I dislike such lame tactics, but overall I find it rather bizarre that people get so upset over the value for money issue. I presume people dislike the idea that they can't easily justify their preferences, which is silly, because as long as you are happy with what you have, you don't need to..

No, I think people are getting sick and tired of the smug manner in which Apple users imply that people that choose to purchase a PC are cheapskates, poor or ignorant. Quite frankly, that's a bunch of bull****.

[lt8480]

Love apple machines, hate the idiots that write this type of tripe...

Apple has responded to the new Microsoft ads promoting low-cost generic PCs as a cheaper alternative to the Mac, stating "A PC is no bargain when it doesn't do what you want."

-

I cant think of one thing my PC cant do but Mac can.

The comment, from Apple spokesman Bill Evans, appeared in a BusinessWeek article by Erik Hesseldahl, which examined the differences between the $699 HP notebook Microsoft recommended to its TV audience over Apple's 17" MacBook Pro, a system in a considerably higher quality and price range.

If there is some things (beyond the standard obvious things) in common between a machine starting at $2,799 (4 times the price???) and a machine at $699, then you really do have big problems! If there's is nothing in common then what's the point? Microsoft never claims to have the same spec as this machine - they claim to offer a machine that does what the consumer wants for $699.

NEWS: Next week Bill Evans compares a new exotic pet snake for $2,799 (ohh shiney)! or a loving dog at $699

"The one thing that both Apple and Microsoft can agree on is that everyone thinks the Mac is cool," Evans added. "With its great designs and advanced software, nothing matches it at any price."

"everyone thinks the Mac is cool", who is The Mac? Steve Jobs or Ronald McDonald? They are too alike to really matter anyway, hyped up advertising selling you something you don't really need. Advanced software - errrr, lots of "advanced software" comes out on PC only. The majority of "mac only" software is made by Mac. Autodesk products anyone? including AutoCad and 3DSMax arent available.

What you pay

Hesseldahl did the math to find out, noting that the lower cost HP notebook ships with a 60-day trial Norton Internet Security 2009, but requires a $50 subscription to help keep Windows from falling to the onslaught of PC viruses and malware.

Some savvy PC buyers might be aware that they can find free antivirus tools on the Internet, but between the fraudulent malware posing as free antivirus tools and the heavily promoted, multi-billion dollar security industry that staunchly defends its right to profit from adding the security that Microsoft left out of Windows, there's clearly a lot of PC buyers who will end up suckered into paying that extra $150 over the short lifetime of their PC to keep it as clean as the Mac would be without any antivirus software.

The analysis also points out that PC users who run into inevitable problems will face a $129 fee from Geek Squad just to diagnose the problem, while pointing out that Apple offers free help from its retail stores' Genius Bar.

$129 where did he pull that number from? As already pointed out $50 for Norton is a nonexpense. And if I install no antivirus software on a PC it also reports having no viruses! Magic that!

What you get

Hesseldahl also outlined the difference in what users get in terms of usability with iLife's iMovie, iDVD, GarageBand, and other software. He noted that the PC ships with some third party movie editing tools that usually cost $184, but figures that collecting a few other software titles to match what ships on the Mac would easily cost another $340. Never mind that all those PC programs don't offer much in terms of tight integration like the Mac's iLife titles.

iDontUse titles, no one spends an extra $340 on titles they don't use on a PC, well unless they are included in the price of a Mac, errr sorry fail.

All that missing software and the extra fees can easily double the cost of the cheap PC hardware. And as the report describes, the bargain basement HP hardware isn't very compelling, with a wimpy battery rated for 2.5 hours compared to the MacBook Pro's eight, an extra 1.2 pounds of weight in a thicker case, and a far lower quality display with much lower resolution, 1440x900 compared to the MacBook Pro's 1920x1440.

1440x900 for 99.9% of people is plenty on a 17inch screen. Im using two 24 inch screens at 1920x1200 each - Why you would need a higher res than that on a 17inch screen is far beyond me. Is that another pointless expense? 8 hours is all well a good for advertising, but the reality like most apple advertising is far from the truth, even with brightness and other power saving options turned down most people report max of about 4 or 5 hours, and that's trying to get as much as possible out of it. Wait till they turn the brightness up and take the processors out of power saving mode - I wonder what temperatue the room was at where they tested it too?

[_bobcat_ Veteran]

Ok, so other than the workstation Mac Pro, what are the options for someone that wants a home system? An iMac laptop-on-a-stick that is essentially an iAppliance, to be tossed when it's fulfilled it's usefulness, since it is near-impossible to upgrade in any easy or measurable way, or the Mini, which is only a serious option for someone who really, truly wants to carry around their precious Apple in their man-purse.

....

Do average users upgrade their PCs? Most that I know do not. They buy their system and run it for 3,5,7 years eventually replacing the whole thing.

Just because you want that ability it does not follow that every other user needs or wants it.

The Apple comparison of a $600 PC to a $1200 is stupid. It's like their early iSwitch ads where they were comparing OSX to Windows 3.1. I guess Apple are hoping that since the majority of computer users are stupid, they wont see the difference.

Perhaps you didn't read the article properly or follow the previous MS ad?

MS started this particular discussion by offering the $600 PC as a good solution for a user on a budget, and it does various things that user wanted. Their point was you do not need to spend a fortune upfront to get a good PC. Apple are, naturally, disputing that.

No, I think people are getting sick and tired of the smug manner in which Apple users imply that people that choose to purchase a PC are cheapskates, poor or ignorant. Quite frankly, that's a bunch of bull****.

Although MS did the same really. They said, if you have a limited budget, go for Windows. Their advertisements.

When people say that, I just get the feeling they are over sensitive about their lack of money. If you really can afford a Mac but choose not to buy one, you must have good reasons. So why get upset if some silly little Mac fan looks down on you? It just comes across as jealousy and/or immaturity.

And not all Apple users are smug, either, so stop generalising, it's a poor argument and annoys the many Mac users who do not fit such stereotypes. Ignoring it is the best thing you can do. It only goes to show your own immaturity if the views of some child upset you so much. As an independent human being you made your choice, you are happy with it, so even if someone does think it cheap/bad/whatever, why get upset? Sure it's annoying, but not worthy of a stroke.

Personally I don't like to see people say Macs are a total rip off and crap and whatever other insults that get thrown around. But I won't be crying myself to sleep over it.

People like things, and that's enough to justify their choice but everyone is hung up on using price/spec/whatever to justify it.. it doesn't make sense to me. Everyone has a different idea of what makes a good computer, but no one will admit this and act like we all want the same thing, and there is actually a perfect machine in existence that would suit everyone... o_0

[backdrifter]

Umm, wasn't Apple doing a heck load of I'm a PC ads a few months ago? What are they wining about again?

[bob21]

When people say that, I just get the feeling they are over sensitive about their lack of money. If you really can afford a Mac but choose not to buy one, you must have good reasons. So why get upset if some silly little Mac fan looks down on you? It just comes across as jealousy and/or immaturity.

Because they're not just looking down on me but everyone else who has a non apple computer , Thats smug self centered and down right stupid . I think its shocking how you assume just because people dont have an apple computer they are poor .

Newsflash: There are plenty of high end systems that are not made by apple. Would you say someone with an alienware laptop is poor , a htc shift ? or indeed any other computer just because of a badge . Apples computers are NOT the pinnacle of computing there are reams of systems with bigger screens , higher specs etc etc etc

Thats some ****ed up attitude , I dont know how you go through life looking down on everyone

Edited April 16, 2009 by bob21

[Guest xiphi]

Apple has responded to the new Microsoft ads promoting low-cost generic PCs as a cheaper alternative to the Mac, stating "A PC is no bargain when it doesn't do what you want."

I can name one thing my PC can do that a Mac can't: play all of my games. This type of attitude from Apple is exactly the reason why I will NEVER have any of their products on m PC or in my house. Get over it Apple. My PC can do more than any of your Mac's can. Apple should realize that many people like me are simply happy with Windows.

[MtnDewCodeRedFreak]

I agree with the above statements.

My computers I own are all under 800 bucks, minus the component upgrades (RAM, HDs, monitor, vid card, router, etc) I made since 2006. The server part I have there as shown in the red font part of my sig is not an actual server per se, but it's a self-built PC that I made for one of my classes at the past university - I just put the Windows Server 2003 and 2008 operating systems on it and ta-da, it's a server now lol.

Anyway, the last time I was at Best Buy was on April 5th, and they sell iCrap and MacBooks - guess what they cost? Yup - >= (greater than or equal to) 999!

A Best Buy rep came up to me as I was looking through the Mac section and asked me if I need any help. Ha! I told him bluntly that the Macs are expensive, and he agreed with me.

Uh, hello? Then why have those Macs at Best Buy there to begin with, anyway? (I didn't say that to the rep, lol)

[Shadrack]

Looks like Apple can talk smack, but can't take it when it is directed back at them. MS's response to the I'm a PC I'm a Mac ads was clever. This is just plain childish.

[ATLien_0]

A lot of good points, coming from Apple who is a design company

Yes the quality is better hence the reason you are paying for the design and the brand.

But also some people just dont want to spend the money and will go for the low cost HP because it just works

[bob21]

Low Cost ?, Low Cost ?, Low Cost ?

Whatever system apple throws out you can find a better one (higher spec / better design) elsewhere.

Edited April 16, 2009 by bob21