Apple responds to Microsoft ads: "a PC is no bargain"

[Solid Knight]

Yet as a Windows fanboy you have no problem accepting 'lies and exaggerations' from Microsoft?

PC being cheaper and having a much wider variety of features yet not lacking in power is not a lie or exaggeration.

And since when did I become a Microsoft fanboy? Was it during the years I used only Linux? I haven't said Macs were junk or that they were useless. I've only gone so far as to say that it's benefits are marginal overall making a move from PCs to Mac a lateral move with a high cost. By no means is that a stretch. However, many Apple fanatics will exaggerate or even outright lie--sometimes out of ignorance and not out of intention--about any faults Windows has. They also tend to have inconsistent reasoning or double standards when it comes to criticism. It's just so friggin' annoying. Their better-than-you attitude doesn't help matters either.

Edited April 17, 2009 by Solid Knight

[bob21]

Wow, way to go collectivism. Collectivising all Mac users as a single entity.

I never made any such claims - my parents own two PC's based on my recommendation to go with Dell. Sine receiving them they have been incredibly happy. You really think that I'm sort of zealot who goes around imposing my views on others?

How about treating Mac users as individuals instead of lumping them all in one boat.

Thats exactly what you did a few posts ago :laugh:

Seriously. I prefer 14.1" laptops but I'm not going around calling people dumb for wanting a 17", 19", or 20" screen on their laptop. Hell some people buy a laptop and it just sits on their desk all day everyday until they take a vacation once a year and bring it with them. Some people only care to move it around in the various rooms of their house and have no intentions of going anywhere outside their home with it. It's just so mind boggling stupid for people to get ****ed off because they bough a laptop that doesn't fit your usage habits. Really, I think they're just trying to dismiss the argument because there is no way they can refute it. They want people to see that Macs are superior and when somebody points out that Apple doesn't build a laptop with the features they want they tell them they don't need those features or they call the user stupid.

[Simon Veteran]

Ill do that when you and your buddies stop claiming Macs are Superior to PCs and that everyone who uses a PC is poor and ignorant.

The only reason that debate is made is because the only non-subjective claim Windows users have against Macs is the price.

Mac users don't say Windows users are poor. They say that Macs are more expensive, and that they can justify them for themselves. You can't say that Macs are overpriced, but I paid a lot for my laptop too. It's a contradiction in terms.

[Macalicious]

PC being cheaper and having a much wider variety of features yet not lacking in power is not a lie or exaggeration.

I would say that it a serious misrepresentation of what is happening.

The PC market is larger, there are more configurations on offer where they focus more in one direction than another. The $700 17inch laptop that has a 17 screen, uses desktop components and low cost but the battery life is 1 1/2 hours.

Apple has a smaller rage of laptops and desktops because they are only focusing on a certain market segment. To compare, therefore, a $700 to MacBook Pro (which is a workstation replacement) would be as stupid as me comparing the $700 HP laptop to a high end ultra light, long battery life etc model from Sony and then claiming that the Sony is a rip off.

The PC world offers variety only if you actually care about wanting a computer that is outside what Apple has to offer.

And since when did I become a Microsoft fanboy? Was it during the years I used only Linux? I haven't said Macs were junk or that there were useless. I've only gone so far as to say that it's benefits are marginal overall making a move from PCs to Mac a lateral move with a high cost. By no means is that a stretch. However, many Apple fanatics will exaggerate or even outright lie--sometimes out of ignorance and not out of intention--about any faults Windows has. They also tend to have inconsistent reasoning or double standards when it comes to criticism. It's just so friggin' annoying. Their better-than-you attitude doesn't help matters either.

The moment when you start spewing hatred against something as if it were a personal threat.

Windows does have faults - you're deliberately choosing to ignore them in favour of a focus on price alone.

Some of us actually use our computers for productive purposes and thus we focus on what we are most productive using - not whether or not we can dive for the lowest price humanly possible.

The only reason that debate is made is because the only non-subjective claim Windows users have against Macs is the price.

Mac users don't say Windows users are poor. They say that Macs are more expensive, and that they can justify them for themselves. You can't say that Macs are overpriced, but I paid a lot for my laptop too. It's a contradiction in terms.

Great post. An important point is this: Over priced means that the individual has paid more for something than they need to; disproportionately a higher cost for an experience that less that equal to the price attached.

That is why I keep hammering on about the operating system - because a computer and the experience is more than just the hardware; it is the integration of hardware and software that make using a computer enjoyable and productive - or something that is miserable.

[bob21]

The only reason that debate is made is because the only non-subjective claim Windows users have against Macs is the price.

Mac users don't say Windows users are poor. They say that Macs are more expensive, and that they can justify them for themselves. You can't say that Macs are overpriced, but I paid a lot for my laptop too. It's a contradiction in terms.

The difference being i payed the cost of a top end mac book pro , And got a far better system for the same price . No contradiction at all .

[Macalicious]

The difference being i payed the cost of a top end mac book pro , And got a far better system for the same price .

And yet you ignore the operating system and have an orgasm over the specifications.

Then again, I guess you just like staring at a screen all day.

[Solid Knight]

The only reason that debate is made is because the only non-subjective claim Windows users have against Macs is the price.

And variety. And a larger software library. And industry standard software exclusives. And versions that cater towards business.

The moment when you start spewing hatred against something as if it were a personal threat.

Windows does have faults - you're deliberately choosing to ignore them in favour of a focus on price alone.

Some of us actually use our computers for productive purposes and thus we focus on what we are most productive using - not whether or not we can dive for the lowest price humanly possible.

I'm not spewing hatred against OS X or Apple itself. I could care less. The point of contention is how many of their users behave. I have a problem with them. With the things they say. This is evidenced by my lack of attacks on Apple products themselves. I've never said they were bad or anything along those lines.

I'm not ignoring the faults of Windows. This thread isn't about the things I hate in Windows. Like any OS, there are things that are bad. Things that annoy me. Does it comfort you to know that I'm not in love with Windows?

And? I have no problems with people buying a Mac. I have no problems with people liking the Mac. I have problems with people going around exaggerating or making up Windows flaws. That's the issue I have. How many times have you read some idiot posting about Windows BSODing everyday or how you have to reboot it everyday or how it will get a new virus everyday or how the hardware for a PC will die in one year guaranteed? I've read quite a few of those. It's not true and certainly not as frequent as they want everyone to believe. Then of course there are all the claims that Windows can't do something when it actually can. Or that Windows does something bad that it actually doesn't do. Or they hate Windows because it does something even though the OS they use does the exact same thing. That gets even more annoying.

I would say that it a serious misrepresentation of what is happening.

The PC market is larger, there are more configurations on offer where they focus more in one direction than another. The $700 17inch laptop that has a 17 screen, uses desktop components and low cost but the battery life is 1 1/2 hours.

Apple has a smaller rage of laptops and desktops because they are only focusing on a certain market segment. To compare, therefore, a $700 to MacBook Pro (which is a workstation replacement) would be as stupid as me comparing the $700 HP laptop to a high end ultra light, long battery life etc model from Sony and then claiming that the Sony is a rip off.

The PC world offers variety only if you actually care about wanting a computer that is outside what Apple has to offer.

No, there is a much wider variety of laptops in the PC world period. Anything Apple has will have dozens of comparable PCs in different configuration with different features.

Also they're not directly comparing specific Mac to a specific PC laptop in these advertisements. They are bringing attention to the limited selection of configurations on Macs when compared to the PC world. It's perfectly legitimate.

Yeah, it's not good to compare a $699 laptop to a $2,000 MacBook Pro but that's not the point of these ads. The point is "Hey, I want a laptop that has x features for y price. Oh, I see a MacBook doesn't meet those requirements. I guess I'll get a PC instead." or even "Hey, I want a PC that meets my needs for as little money as possible. I see the MacBooks are out of my budget. PC it is." There isn't much to argue against that. It's true.

Edited April 17, 2009 by Solid Knight

[Macalicious]

And variety. And a larger software library. And industry standard software exclusives. And versions that cater towards business.

You mean the millions of crap freeware and shareware out there for Windows? the over priced garbage from big name vendors like Adobe who drop support for their products the moment that a new operating system is released?

Your justification is as almost as pathetic as Linux users who boast about 10,000 packages in their distro repository.

Quantity does not equal quality.

[bob21]

And yet you ignore the operating system and have an orgasm over the specifications.

Then again, I guess you just like staring at a screen all day.

Because the operating system is irrelevant for me , Im just going to format it and install whatever i choose .

Its all subjective .

[Macalicious]

Because the operating system is irrelevant for me , Im just going to format it and install whatever i choose .

Its all subjective .

So you're claiming that the operating system running on it has no impact on the over all experience of the machine when it comes to reliability, stability, battery life etc?

Mate, you're really grasping at straws now when the only thing you have focused on is the hardware where I have focused on the whole computer - hardware as well as software.

[spenser.d]

And yet you ignore the operating system and have an orgasm over the specifications.

Then again, I guess you just like staring at a screen all day.

You do realize that saying one OS is better than the other is completely subjective, but I would like to point out that 85% of the market seems to be subjectively choosing Windows...

-Spenser

[bob21]

Not at all , I simply said i dont care about what operating system it ships with because its going to be reformated . Windows isnt tied to specific systems so users like myself and the others on this form dont need to worry about what operating system their computer ships with aslong as they have a valid windows license.

[ahhell]

You mean the millions of crap freeware and shareware out there for Windows? the over priced garbage from big name vendors like Adobe who drop support for their products the moment that a new operating system is released?

Your justification is as almost as pathetic as Linux users who boast about 10,000 packages in their distro repository.

Quantity does not equal quality.

You do realize that "big name vendors" make the same **** for the Mac with similar abysmal support.

Argument FAIL.

[Simon Veteran]

The difference being i payed the cost of a top end mac book pro , And got a far better system for the same price . No contradiction at all .

But there is a contradiction. You complain that Mac users are calling you poor, but they aren't. You pay a premium for a Mac, that's all. Whether it's a premium you want to pay or not is up to you. It might not be a premium at all in your opinion, if you're a Windows fan. Just overpricing.

And these ads are targeting those who want a cheap computer, and seem to be targeting people on a budget ($1000, etc). Not poor, but limited in some way.

[Macalicious]

You do realize that saying one OS is better than the other is completely subjective, but I would like to point out that 85% of the market seems to be subjectively choosing Windows...

Do you even READ THE POSTS?!

The over all experience is dictated by the operating system running. You can rant and rave about how great the hardware specifications are but they impact very little on whether a computer is enjoyable and productive to use.

You are fixating on specifications - I'm concerned about the OVER ALL EXPERIENCE! It is the over all experience that justifies the price and not just the hardware or the operating system alone.

Comprende?

[Simon Veteran]

You do realize that "big name vendors" make the same **** for the Mac with similar abysmal support.

Argument FAIL.

Doesn't mean you have to use it ;)

[spenser.d]

Do you even READ THE POSTS?!

The over all experience is dictated by the operating system running. You can rant and rave about how great the hardware specifications are but they impact very little on whether a computer is enjoyable and productive to use.

You are fixating on specifications - I'm concerned about the OVER ALL EXPERIENCE! It is the over all experience that justifies the price and not just the hardware or the operating system alone.

Comprende?

Yeah. No ****. And I'm saying that the major majority of the market prefers the overall experience they get from a PC. There's a reason for that - it's called Mac+OS X isn't the end-all be-all of, well, anything. Windows is just as good if not better for most people. They can get that great experience for far less by getting a PC.

-Spenser

[Reacon]

And yet you ignore the operating system and have an orgasm over the specifications.

Then again, I guess you just like staring at a screen all day.

I seem to enjoy not waiting 20 seconds for Firefox to load, and getting more than 5 FPS in FarCry 2 (one of my favourite games), and booting up in 19 seconds for 700$ less. Better specs, lower price! And of course you tell us that that's not a good thing and we should look at the OS.

I have no problem with Vista. Hell, it's a GREAT OS. It does what I want it to, it doesn't hang, in my entire time of using it I am yet to see one BSoD. The functionality is great, tons of features. It is every bit as good as OS X Leopard which I have tested and used via OSx86 for months, and in many areas, it surpasses. Now, if I wanted a pretty case, <snipped>, and sub par specs for a premium price, I would have bought that.

Lemme tell ya something, pal. If I were to get a Macbook Pro, I would install Windows on it anyway. Your's may be different, but in my opinion, Windows is far superior in many ways. And quite frankly, I would rather be using Linux than pay an extra 700-1000$ more for the same PC + a cool looking case with an Apple logo.

Edited April 17, 2009 by John S.
no need to flame

[Macalicious]

I seem to enjoy not waiting 20 seconds for Firefox to load, and getting more than 5 FPS in FarCry 2 (one of my favourite games), and booting up in 19 seconds for 700$ less. Better specs, lower price! And of course you tell us that that's not a good thing and we should look at the OS.

I have no problem with Vista. Hell, it's a GREAT OS. It does what I want it to, it doesn't hang, in my entire time of using it I am yet to see one BSoD. The functionality is great, tons of features. It is every bit as good as OS X Leopard which I have tested and used via OSx86 for months, and in many areas, it surpasses. Now, if I wanted a pretty case, <snipped>, and sub par specs for a premium price, I would have bought that.

Lemme tell ya something, pal. If I were to get a Macbook Pro, I would install Windows on it anyway. Your's may be different, but in my opinion, Windows is far superior in many ways. And quite frankly, I would rather be using Linux than pay an extra 700-1000$ more for the same PC + a cool looking case with an Apple logo.

<snipped>

Windows users claim they are 100% perfect and never resort to subjective statements and here we are a Windows user making such a statement.

Interesting enough I don't see a single moderator up hold the rule that you can't call an operating system 'sh*tty' or suck.

Edit: Funny enough Firefox loads on my machine 3-5 seconds. Then again - a Windows user lying, like thats never happened before *rolls eyes*

Edited April 17, 2009 by John S.
now you do

[Eric Veteran]

And yet you ignore the operating system and have an orgasm over the specifications.

Then again, I guess you just like staring at a screen all day.

Are you implying Windows doesn't do anything? That doesn't make any sense. I use my computer all day, every day. My hardware and software is about as tightly integrated and stable as it can get, and none of it is Apple.

[BajiRav]

And yet you ignore the operating system and have an orgasm over the specifications.

Then again, I guess you just like staring at a screen all day.

What's so special about OS X that makes it worth to pay the premium for someone doing everything they need for less price? You are hammering the "overall experience" a lot. What is this overall experience?

I have an iBook and a 22" Vista desktop. I don't seem to miss anything on my desktop. In fact out of the box it streams all my media to my Xbox 360 (or PS3 - out of the box a Mac won't stream anything to even PS3). I have a kickass Photo manager in Picasa that is easily all over iPhoto. Or I can use Windows Live Photo Gallery to do nested tags in my photos (or WinEx for other files) that I don't yet see OS X supporting natively.

My Vista has only ever had BSOD after the first six months which was traced down to a faulty mobo - a problem very common with Apple hardware as well.

So as you seem to be claiming again and again - OS X's "overall experience" means **** to my needs.

<generalized bull****>It seems all you do is post how OS X is god send all day on your browser. You could've done that using a netbook for far lesser money and much better browser than the awful safari</generalized bull****> :rolleyes:

[Macalicious]

What's so special about OS X that makes it worth to pay the premium for someone doing everything they need for less price? You are hammering the "overall experience" a lot. What is this overall experience?

I have an iBook and a 22" Vista desktop. I don't seem to miss anything on my desktop. In fact out of the box it streams all my media to my Xbox 360 (or PS3 - out of the box a Mac won't stream anything to even PS3). I have a kickass Photo manager in Picasa that is easily all over iPhoto. Or I can use Windows Live Photo Gallery to do nested tags in my files/photos that I don't yet see OS X supporting natively.

My Vista has only ever had BSOD after the first six months which was traced down to a faulty mobo - a problem very common with Apple hardware as well.

So as you seem to be claiming again and again - OS X's "overall experience" means **** to my needs.

<generalized bull****>It seems all you do is post how OS X is god send all day on your browser. You could've done that using a netbook for far lesser money and much better browser than the awful safari</generalized bull****> :rolleyes:

The UI for starters - then again, you've never used a non-PC platform in your life - so I don't expect you to understand.

[Solid Knight]

You mean the millions of crap freeware and shareware out there for Windows? the over priced garbage from big name vendors like Adobe who drop support for their products the moment that a new operating system is released?

Your justification is as almost as pathetic as Linux users who boast about 10,000 packages in their distro repository.

Quantity does not equal quality.

So there is no crapware for Mac? You're venturing into subjective territory here. And you're ignoring all the junk on Download.com and SourceForge that run on OS X. And there is lots of quality software for Windows. Having lots of bad applications doesn't automatically mean that you have few good applications. You can have a lot of both.

Then regarding your argument about a superior OS that gives you a superior experience. You know, the amount of time I spend dicking with the actual OS is not a whole lot of time at all. I really don't see how double clicking and icon on Mac is so much better than double clicking an icon on Windows or double clicking an icon on Linux. You run applications. All of them need to be updated. You need to do some maintenance every so often as well. You store your data in directories. All your application access and data access is essentially the same and if you don't like it can be easily changed on any OS. Don't like menus? Launchy, Gnome-Do, QuickSilver, et cetera. Don't like explorer on Windows? Total Commander and various other clones. I've used OS X. It's not that much better in regards to the UI. Somethings are nicer but even, say the retarded networking dialogs in Windows, are something I won't be dicking with very often. I just don't see this one and I think this is just a sentiment that carries on from past comparisons. This supposed superiority is marginal at best.

I never made the argument that Apple was superior because of third party software - the original poster claimed that because there is a larger number of vendors writing software it automatically makes Windows superior. My response was that quantity doesn't equal quality.

Read it again because all it says is that Windows has a larger library of software. At no point did I say all the software was superior. I also recommend that you read what I was quoting to understand my statement in context. But I have my doubts so I will explain: He said that only thing Windows had over Mac was price. I pointed out other things it had over it. That was as far as that was supposed to go.

[jonhapimp]

The UI for starters - then again, you've never used a non-PC platform in your life - so I don't expect you to understand.

?? That makes no since, i've use osx everyday and i still think windows is better, stop making bull**** generalizations. that if you dislike osx you've must have never used it

[BajiRav]

The UI for starters - then again, you've never used a non-PC platform in your life - so I don't expect you to understand.

What part of "I have an iBook" you did not get? I probably work on more platforms in a week than you would in months so let's not get started on that. ;)

Oh and UI...what about it?