[Feedback needed] Atlas, the next version of Neowin

[MulletRobZ]

Nice and clean. However, I find the placement of the header ad to be a bit awkward.

[+Anarkii Subscriber²]

I have no idea where you got that from, but I hadn't heard anything about it.

LOL that was my attempt to get more users to sign up as subscribers - IF you guys actually did let us beta test it, im sure you would of gotten another 50 odd subscribers :)

[jonhapimp]

LOL that was my attempt to get more users to sign up as subscribers - IF you guys actually did let us beta test it, im sure you would of gotten another 50 odd subscribers :)

or not

[Subject Delta]

I'm not saying anyone is wrong for having an opinion, I'm saying they're wrong for labouring the point when we have explained time and again why we have made the choice to make this release fixed width, and explained that we will not be changing it. With every change we do, people complain, if we changed things to keep people who complain happy, we'd still be using the original skin Neowin launched with. Only a tiny fraction of the users of Neowin have spoken out against the changes, probably not even 1 percent, that does not make this a "clear issue"

Clearly the idea of 'A message board without members would be lost on you'. Fact is, not all members are complaining about the fixed width, but a fairly sizeable portion of the people who have actually responded have complained about this decision, so it may not class as a "clear issue" to you, but clearly enough members are concerned by it to raise it as an issue. To be honest opening up a thread for feedback and then ignoring it when a series of people complain about a very specific thing is somewhat futile, you may as well just say "this is how the site will be designed and you will like it or leave"

[DaveLegg Developer]

Clearly the idea of 'A message board without members would be lost on you'. Fact is, not all members are complaining about the fixed width, but a fairly sizeable portion of the people who have actually responded have complained about this decision, so it may not class as a "clear issue" to you, but clearly enough members are concerned by it to raise it as an issue. To be honest opening up a thread for feedback and then ignoring it when a series of people complain about a very specific thing is somewhat futile, you may as well just say "this is how the site will be designed and you will like it or leave"

I'm about ready to give up replying to you to be honest. We are not ignoring member feedback, we have made quite a few changes based on feedback we received in this thread, and explained time and again why we made the fixed width decision, yet you keep complaining about it. To me, it seems like you're the one ignoring what we have to say. The whole point of the thread is to get feedback from those who want to suggest changes, those that don't have any suggestions (aka, are happy with it being fixed width) won't bother replying, so yes, while a large number of the comments here have been on the same issue (despite us repeatedly explaining it), they DO NOT represent a large proportion of our users.

[Subject Delta]

If you want to ignore me, be my guest, I am done trying to reason with you. G'day :)

[jonhapimp]

too put it simply they can't make everyone happy , if your not the majority don't expect to get it changed. 1 vs 1000

also great job guys

Edited October 2, 2009 by jonhapimp

[M_Lyons10]

That looks really great. I like the changes a lot. I think this will be a very beneficial update IMO. I really can't wait. It looks great. :)

[+M2Ys4U Subscriber¹]

I like it and I like the fixed-width layout.

[Andrew Lyle Global Moderator]

I really like the fixed width, after using it for a little while, I prefer this over the old style

[Srugie Veteran]

I really like the fixed width, after using it for a little while, I prefer this over the old style

+1

[dannybz]

I really like the this theme. It looks nice and clean, though now I can't see updates on new software (which used to be on right side column).

But great work

[Lord Ba'al]

See I like how InsanelyMac does it. They have the option up top of doing fixed or fullscreen. I am lost as to how a "tech site" wouldn't allow for widescreen monitors.

Here is InsanelyMac.

http://www.insanelymac.com/

I like that! :woot:

They also have another feature I really like, the ability to choose a nice background image. I especially like that wood background :cool:

I'm also a widescreen user (1920x1200) and not fond of a fixed layout which will leave me with huge borders at either side :pinch:

If we already have to live with those huge borders, you at least ought to provide the possibility to select a nice background image (like that wood background on the site above) rather than having an ugly, uni-coloured area taking up half of the screen :x

Also Neowin and others, great job on Atlas, and I think this might be interesting here, multiple colour schemes [see Fig.1]?

Fig.1

Yes, custom colour schemes would be muchly appreciated :yes:

I don't really like the default grey that can be seen on the screenshots in the first post :pinch:

[Dapen]

I use a widescreen and prefer fixed width layouts, they are a lot cleaner and everyone gets the same content result.

I'm not too keen on all the greys I see in the new design, would be nice to see some additional themes in future, though I am liking the layout changes.

[smooths*]

I love everything with the new design, such a move forward. My only grumble would be the font used but either way, it looks great so well done everyone involved!

For those of you that are complaining about the width and the fact that "the team aren't listening or taking our feedback", of course they're taking your feedback, it's not hard to miss.

This thread is for feedback, not "you tell us what you dont like and we'll jump through hoops and make it happen regardless" have some respect.

[The Teej]

I'm not entirely fond of the fixed-width narrow-column layout, but I suppose I'd get used to it after a few weeks. I definitely agree that some form of background image would be great, though, it really helps the presentation. Joystiq uses the exact same column width as this new layout does, but I don't really notice it as much, partially because of background image. It makes look more like it's being used even though it really isn't.

Apart from that, absolutely LOVING it. Can't wait for it! Keep up the good work (Y)

EDIT: One thing that -does- need to go, though, are the ads that occur within the list of stories on the current version of the site. I'm not entirely sure if this has already happened with the new placement of the ads, but yeah, it needs to stay where it's at now and go no where else! I'm perfectly fine with ads, and don't usually notice them in the stories, but after trying the "4:3" mode on the main page, that ad in the list of stories sticks out like a sore thumb and totally squashes that one particular story. The placement of the ads in the new version is definitely perfect (Y)

Edited October 2, 2009 by The Teej

[Kirkburn]

One thing about 100% width layouts: there is an ideal max. length to words going across a screen - I believe it's something about 10-15 words. Beyond that your eyes start getting lost. It also looks pretty terrible if an entire paragraph takes up one line.

Take http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8286660.stm for example - if the page was wider, the stories would look increasingly short and redundant. Merely making stories longer to compensate isn't a solution, because it'd just be waffle, and story length isn't a function of their newsworthiness. So you have a limited width.

Indeed, at the moment I would say https://www.neowin.net/news/main/09/10/02/i...gernaut-of-yore is already going beyond ideal width for text.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

That varies on a person to person basis, I find long lines of text easier to read than short lines (the opening of the BBC story looks like a jumbled mess to me)

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

That varies on a person to person basis, I find long lines of text easier to read than short lines (the opening of the BBC story looks like a jumbled mess to me)

For most people short lines of text are easier to read. There's a reason why printed media have used column layouts for well over 500 years now.

[Yorak]

I do not think anybody can judge until they actually use it. Many will change their minds, I'm sure.

When will the public be able to test this out? Is there a release date in mind?

[Donkey88]

I think the fixed width "problem" is accentuated by the fact that you have a pretty dark background colour, and that the site's news content is really quite linear. The Teej above mentioned Joystiq, whilst it's the same width, it benefits from looking 'full' due to the images down the side, and large images used for headlines. I think at the moment your eye just gets tricked into it looking narrower than it really is.

It's a good layout though, and the adverts are placed much better than they are at the moment, which is definitely a bonus.

[Kirkburn]

That varies on a person to person basis, I find long lines of text easier to read than short lines (the opening of the BBC story looks like a jumbled mess to me)

True, I can believe that - but in general shorter lines are better.

[Calum Veteran]

[...] To be honest opening up a thread for feedback and then ignoring it when a series of people complain about a very specific thing is somewhat futile, you may as well just say "this is how the site will be designed and you will like it or leave"

If you want to ignore me, be my guest, I am done trying to reason with you. G'day :)

Hi Frank :) You're usually a very reasonable guy, so I'm a little bit disappointed in your use of the term "ignore" a fair few times in this thread; so much so that I have actually taken the trouble to find a decent definition of the word for you :) --

ig⋅nore [ig-nawr, -nohr]

?verb (used with object), -nored, -nor⋅ing.i>

1. to refrain from noticing or recognizing.Synonyms:b>

1. overlook; slight, disregard, neglect.Antonyms:b>

1. notice, regard.

Sourcei>]

I do hope that helps to some extent. As you can see from the information provided above, the word "ignore" (or: "ignored", "ignoring") should be used when somebody has refrained from noticing something or when they have overlooked, disregarded or neglected something. Some antonyms (words opposite in meaning to "Ignore") include "notice" and "regard."

Now, you have stated many times that developers have ignored you and others in this feedback thread and as an English speaking person, I became offended by that because they have certainly not ignored any feedback. The Neowin developers have commented on all feedback and issues brought up by members; they have also explained greatly why they have not made some of the requested changes. After considering those facts, I don't see how any rational person can complain that feedback has been ignored in this thread.

I do apologise and I am certainly not calling you out here; I just had to correct your use of the word "ignore" because I became really offended at seeing it used so wrongl:):) I hope you understand - I tend to be very 'nit-picky' about English and gramma;);)

True, I can believe that - but in general shorter lines are better.

I completely agree. It's always best to cater for the majorit:):)

[Jeston Veteran]

I must say that at first I was also a little worried about having it fixed width, but then I noticed that ever since I reformatted my computers for Windows 7 a couple months ago, I never changed it back to use the wider format. I actually didn't notice until this thread. So, apparently the fixed width doesn't bother me very much. Even on my 16" 1080P laptop screen. Can't wait to use this.

[callummr]

The colours all seem very darkened/dulled. Finity has a very nice blue compared to Atlas (in my opinion), so maybe a choice of more vibrant colours would be possible?

I was pushed to say this because I just saw the 'Neowin in red?' tweet, and it just looks like a murky brown/red combination.