hbo HBO's Game of Thrones

[Pork Chopper]

It's a freaking TV show don't analyze too much. :-)

[Luc2k]

10 minutes ago, Pork Chopper said:

It's a freaking TV show don't analyze too much. :-)

A show is supposed to respect its internal logic. Since GoT is portrait as a realistic medieval setting, bar the magic, crap like that really kills enjoyment for me. And it's not like they couldn't have the same scenes but logical.

Spoiler

Instead of Ramsey firing one arrow at a time have his whole army fire on the dodging Rickon. Or have Jon Snow's army blocked by piles of corpses and Winterfell's walls if you want them surrounded. Piles of corpses make a lot more sense against a wall than in an open field.

But no, Dumb & Dumber had to go full retard again.

[+John. Subscriber¹]

Just now, Luc2k said:

Since GoT is portrait as a realistic medieval setting, bar the magic

And the dragons, and the giants, and the white walkers, and the wall. It's called Fantasy for a reason. It's not meant to be grounded in anything. 

[Luc2k]

6 minutes ago, John. said:

And the dragons, and the giants, and the white walkers, and the wall. It's called Fantasy for a reason. It's not meant to be grounded in anything. 

You missed the last part of what I wrote "bar the magic" which includes all that you mentioned.

 

Now try to explain to me, using those fantasy elements how the corpses gathered themselves in neat, several meters high, piles or why

Spoiler

Rickon ran in a straight line.

 

[+John. Subscriber¹]

2 minutes ago, Luc2k said:

You missed the last part of what I wrote "bar the magic" which includes all that you mentioned.

 

Now try to explain to me, using those fantasy elements how the corpses gathered themselves in neat, several meters high, piles or why

  Reveal hidden contents

Rickon ran in a straight line.

 

I personally don't think they're things that need explaining. If you're not happy with it, you can't exactly change it. What you saw was what the producers wanted you to see. It's up to you whether you're happy or not with it.

[Luc2k]

Just now, John. said:

I personally don't think they're things that need explaining. If you're not happy with it, you can't exactly change it. What you saw was what the producers wanted you to see. It's up to you whether you're happy or not with it.

The only explanation is bad writing and that isn't in-universe.

 

Yeah, well, I'll express my disappointment all the same. You see, I used to love this show and really believed it was going to be one of the greatest, however, with each new episode it gets closer and closer to nonsensical mediocrity.

[Syanide]

Leave it to Luc2k to be dissatisfied with the episode, like for real dawg... Ramsay intentionally fired the arrows at all men, including his own, to create the corpse blockade, so that the phalanx could surround them. Was the corpse wall too high? Yeah, for sure it was. Was it wide enough so that people couldn't have passed around it, instead piled on top of it? Probably not. But not everything has to be super realistic, the gist of the idea was that Ramsay created a corpse wall and surrounded the soldiers, that I'm satisfied with. Also, one thing the episode really managed to get through well, was the sense of chaos and anxiety during the battle. Even Jon didn't know what he was doing, so there's another reason to suspend your disbelief about how high the corpse wall was and why they didn't go around it.

 

Also, whoever mentioned Sansa and not telling Jon about knights of the Vale: that was exactly the point. She warned him that Ramsay will play his games and that he would turn Jon's tactics on him, which he did - he lured him with Rickon and made the Stark & co. soldiers charge, which is exactly what Ramsay wanted and what Jon shouldn't have done. Had she told him, he would have probably wanted to use the cavalry right from the start. Doing it as she did, Sansa managed to surprise Ramsay, which again, was her point.

[Luc2k]

17 minutes ago, Syanide said:

Leave it to Luc2k to be dissatisfied with the episode

As always, the voice of reason

17 minutes ago, Syanide said:

Ramsay intentionally fired the arrows at all men, including his own, to create the corpse blockade, so that the phalanx could surround them.

That doesn't really sound like legitimate and probable outcome in an open field. Sure, you may be OK with it as a means to an end, but I've already offered a better location for Jon's army getting pinned and I'm no writer.

 

Anyway, if you remember, it seems I was wrong about the whole giving Rickon as an hostage. What we saw was what we got, no intrigue, nothing.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Luc2k

[Dashel]

14 minutes ago, Syanide said:

Also, whoever mentioned Sansa and not telling Jon about knights of the Vale: that was exactly the point. She warned him that Ramsay will play his games and that he would turn Jon's tactics on him, which he did - he lured him with Rickon and made the Stark & co. soldiers charge, which is exactly what Ramsay wanted and what Jon shouldn't have done. Had she told him, he would have probably wanted to use the cavalry right from the start. Doing it as she did, Sansa managed to surprise Ramsay, which again, was her point.

While plausible, its still a bitch move and no better than what Ramsay did with his corpse wall.  She's evil.  Ned would not approve.

[+John. Subscriber¹]

4 minutes ago, Luc2k said:

That doesn't really sound like legitimate and probable outcome in an open field. Sure, you may be OK with it as an means to an end, but I've already offered a better location for Jon's army getting pinned and I'm no writer.

I agree with that, left it way to long to come to the rescue. It was very Gandalf-look to me on the dawn of the 5th day-esque.

[TDT]

This was a GREAT episode. Really got me on the edge from start to finish. 

Spoiler

I didn't expect Sansa's arrival, totally forgot about her during that battle. In fact, I was already thinking that Jon will be captured and how on earth he'll get out of this one Anyway, one of the scenes that was "wow" for me is the one in the attachment. Beautiful!

 

[Syanide]

@Luc2k: Everything can be done in a better way, but your level of criticism just to draw disenjoyment from something astounds me. This was a massively satisfying and engaging hour of television, with a battle that was pure carnage, that managed to translate the feelings of chaos, anxiety and claustrophobia that a close combat would probably have. Someone mentioned Saving Private Ryan to me, that's exactly what it felt like to me. Pure and utter chaos. The scene with Jon being trampled, that was masterfully pulled off. To watch all of that, and then focus on the fact that the reality of formations in regards to the battlefield wasn't super realistic, I don't know...

[Luc2k]

33 minutes ago, John. said:

I agree with that, left it way to long to come to the rescue. It was very Gandalf-look to me on the dawn of the 5th day-esque.

Not sure why you quoted me about that, but I'm oddly OK with it. Sure, it would be better if it didn't happen that way, but on the other hand it's a movie thing and I guess I'm accustomed to it. The Bolton's semicircle of death sure took it's time killing them though so I guess it evens out with LF's arrival, then again Ramsey might have wanted to toy with them.

26 minutes ago, Syanide said:

@Luc2k: Everything can be done in a better way, but your level of criticism just to draw disenjoyment from something astounds me. This was a massively satisfying and engaging hour of television, with a battle that was pure carnage, that managed to translate the feelings of chaos, anxiety and claustrophobia that a close combat would probably have. Someone mentioned Saving Private Ryan to me, that's exactly what it felt like to me. Pure and utter chaos. The scene with Jon being trampled, that was masterfully pulled off. To watch all of that, and then focus on the fact that the reality of formations in regards to the battlefield wasn't super realistic, I don't know...

Well, the Mereen "negotiations" would figure into "satisfying and engaging" for me although I would have liked to see some attempts at attacking the dragons. Dany and Yara's "Oh, you're a woman that wants power? What a coincidence, let's have sex!" was meh.

 

First problem with the battle was that Rickon happened, which started the mild annoyance, but I did see "a battle that was pure carnage, that managed to translate the feelings of chaos, anxiety and claustrophobia that a close combat would probably have" until the mountains of corpses reveal, at which point, I was completely disengaged. It's not like go into each episode expecting to be disappointed.. well I do, but never to this degree.

 

Take the previous two episodes. I didn't post because there wasn't much to complain about, apart from the Blackfish's stupid death. Should have written how ecstatic I was that Dondarion was the one still alive and not LS.

[Zathras5]

According to the behind the episode thing, the dead bodies piling up is based on historical fact. Bodies would pile up and cause obstructions during big battles back in medieval times. Still, having them pile up in one big clump like in the show was kind of far fetched. I'm sure it didn't get quite that bad way back when.

[Pork Chopper]

Couldn't the high pile of bodies been caused by men trying to advance over the bodies and getting killed by arrows?  This went on and on.  Of course it seems they could have gone around.  I think the The 300 movie had bodies pile up but they were in a narrow pass with a mountain on one side and a cliff on the other.

[Dashel]

If you can accept hovering dragon attacks, I can accept Ramsay's waste of cavalry piling up to the heavens.

 

[Luc2k]

5 minutes ago, Dashel said:

If you can accept hovering dragon attacks, I can accept Ramsay's waste of cavalry piling up to the heavens.

Attacking dragons was in the brochure, corpses piling several meters high on open ground was not.

[Pork Chopper]

Rickon should have serpentined.

[CrossCheck]

3 hours ago, Luc2k said:

I dare anyone to offer a good explanation for this dumb ######. Why would anyone even fight on unstable footing (the corpses) when there's perfectly frozen ground all around.

 

This is the most real answer i can offer. Its a freaking TV show about a fantasy series of novels. what did you expect realism?

[+Zagadka Subscriber²]

Realism, not so much. Not being utterly stupid, yea, I kinda do.

[Luc2k]

4 minutes ago, CrossCheck said:

This is the most real answer i can offer. Its a freaking TV show about a fantasy series of novels. what did you expect realism?

I expect consistency within its created universe and internal logic.

[Pork Chopper]

And how are people and armies getting around so fast?  Oh right, it would be boring if they traveled in real time. 

[techbeck]

Here’s the Real History That Inspired the Game of Thrones ‘Battle of the Bastards’

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/real-history-inspired-game-thrones-161720992.html?nhp=1

[Draconian Guppy]

7 hours ago, techbeck said:

Tetris?

Gentlemen, we've struck gold!

[The Evil Overlord]

and another thread ruined

seems to be the fashion /facepalm