I didn't pull trigger....


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Memphis

I've been thinking about this all day and I've came to a conclusion. I've been in the wrong mindset the whole time before this. I've talked it over with a few of my friends in law enforcement and they, as well as me agreed I made a mistake in not immediately taking control of the situation. Never again will I let a bunch of thugs get that close to me. If it happens again I will pull and shoot to kill immediately. Washington is a stand your ground state. This situation has taught me a lesson. Me not taking immediate control and dropping the first perp put everyone's life in danger in the gas station. However I shouldn't even let it got to their, when I first was confronted I should of taken control right then. I stupidly let it go when they backed down instead of telling them to hit the floor and calling the cops like I should have. I'm just glad I learned my lesson without anything too terrible happening.

To those that say you would of shot to kill without hesitation and have not been in that situation before I say you don't know what you are talking about at all. It is incredibly hard to take a mans life and not one of the gun self defense classes or or weapons training I have gone through was preparation to take a mans life, but only preparation to how to use the tool. To those acting like I brandished it trying to be tough I take great offense to this. No one knows I carry, they came up on me to beat me up and I said I didn't want trouble and showed it because I felt extremely threatened. I should have taken control right their and had them all on the ground with the cops on the way, but stupidly, I was hoping they would let it go and back off.

This experience I hope has shown me what not to do. From now on, I hope to enter a new mindset. I will immediately control the situation, if they back down like they did I will immediately command them to the ground verbally instead of trying to let it go. I will call the cops if that works. If it doesn't and I am charged I will shoot to kill. I must be comfortable with doing it. This situation has strengthened my resolve to take better control of future situations. I will say now, this will never happen like this again. I may never encounter a situation like this in my whole life again, but if I do, I hope to put what I learned from this situation to good use. To anyone with a CCW out their thinking that you can intimidate an attacker off and then back away, I can tell you from experience, think about why your carrying. I now realize what I should of always realized. I was told it in classes, I was told it by experienced law enforcement officers. You don't carry to intimidate attackers away, you carry to neutralize attackers. I hope I can learn from my experience, and never let it happen this way again.

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Green_Eye

I was in a situation where I was forced to make the decision to end a mans life in order to defend my own and I acted upon that decision, the only reason that scumbag is still breathing is because his buddy attacked me from behind nearly knocking me out and therefore I was not able to finish him off. I was a mere second away from breaking a guys neck with my own hands. I was in the process of writing the story down to explain that this was an absolute situations where I had to act the way I did but my browser crashed taking my wall of text with it so all I will say is this. I made that decision in a heartbeat. I did not hesitate for a second and even though I was kind of shook up about it afterward, I am now fully confident I made the right decision and would have not felt the least bit guilty putting him down like the animal he was. You should have put them down. It is unrealistic to say "I would have not shot them", one kick to your temple and you would either be dead or brain damaged and for what? And also, shoot them in the leg? I am guessing most of you guys have never held a gun before? Hitting a leg in that situation would require you to be a navy seal commando. It is incredibly hard to hit a target that thin. Let alone a moving target that thin. My only worry would have been if you could have successfully landed a shot on the chest as that is difficult on its own. I will tell you this having been in a situation similar to yours. I would have shot them dead without a shadow of a doubt.

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The Angry Bunny

At the end of the day, pulling the trigger makes you no better then they are - possibly even a little worse.

I feel the need to address this statement...

If he were to of shot them it would not in any way, shape, form, or fashion make him as bad, or worse than they are. He didn't instigate the fight, and even tried multiple times to avoid it. If it would've come down to him using the gun it would've been in self defense, and even if it would've resulted in the loss of their life they brought it upon themselves.

I honestly don't see how you can believe what you wrote.

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Jase

You don't Pull you squeeze ;)

but you sir are a true man with balls... taking a beating and not making matters worse by taking a life, wow just wow (Y)

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thenut

sidroc: I would like to know where in Washington this was, if that's not too much to ask.

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Memphis

sidroc: I would like to know where in Washington this was, if that's not too much to ask.

PM Sent.

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+shift.

It is near impossible to "just aim for the leg"

Hell try hitting the chest at a firing range with the target as close to you as possible and you'll know how hard it is to even hit that. It's not even moving either.

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omganinja

America is ****ed up, you just casually carry a gun around...

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Memphis

UPDATE

I just got a call from the responding officer and they have a photo line up their going to show me tomorrow. He asked if I wanted to press charges, and I agreed to. He told me its smoking gun thanks to the security footage and that they have a good idea of who the perps were and that after the photo lineup they will issue arrest warrants. Hopefully they come through and catch these guys. Apparently they are part of a local gang known as the East Gate Possy. Well see how it goes.

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Memphis

UPDATE 2.

I got through the line up and identified the perps. It was easy given he had a camera with the security footage on it. Now the question is will they find these guys to arrest them? We got the identity down. Thankfully the store didn't have bad security cameras that take a picture every 2 seconds and it was halfway clear maybe 480p or close? Anyways The cop told me he had been on the force for two years and said he learned a lesson from this too. He said he would of probably reacted the same way if someone kept advancing after he pulled his weapon and said he learned from my experience to shoot. I'm going to try to get the security camera footage and post it. I want CCW permit owners to see what not to do. I will never again react this way and I hope others can learn from my experience as well.

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sw1tch..

America is ****ed up, you just casually carry a gun around...

+1. Gotta love old brisnyland!

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curme

Not to second guess because I wasn't there, but I'm just surprised that you went into the gas station after the confrontation. I would of got in my car and went to another station.

The important thing is that you are ok.

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Gravitas

By reading the O.P.'s posts in the first page, I gather that he is now just as crazy as those guys who attacked him.

"I'll shoot to kill"? Seriously? You make it sound like you will shoot anyone who comes close to you with a bad attitude. How about shoot to warn them, or to injure them? If you aren't confident enough in your aim, don't carry a gun.

Hopefully, I'm wrong about the O.P., and I really hope that he will actually think before shooting.

By the way, lessons in a type of martial arts would come in handy to back off an aggressor. If he doesn't stop, then take out your gun.

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Growled

I've been thinking about this all day and I've came to a conclusion. I've been in the wrong mindset the whole time before this. I've talked it over with a few of my friends in law enforcement and they, as well as me agreed I made a mistake in not immediately taking control of the situation. Never again will I let a bunch of thugs get that close to me. If it happens again I will pull and shoot to kill immediately. Washington is a stand your ground state. This situation has taught me a lesson. Me not taking immediate control and dropping the first perp put everyone's life in danger in the gas station. However I shouldn't even let it got to their, when I first was confronted I should of taken control right then. I stupidly let it go when they backed down instead of telling them to hit the floor and calling the cops like I should have. I'm just glad I learned my lesson without anything too terrible happening.

Why not just fire a warning shot first?

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mrchetsteadman

Okay, I had to calm down before posting. Think about it like this, would you rather your parents see you in a pine box or in a prison cell? You were minding your own business and these idiots attacked you, what was the point of thinking about it again? Next time aim for the head, it's not that hard.

Now to cover my ass from the "tree hugging, it's okay to be murdered as long as you respect the next person, it's okay that I will leave my family behind because your right to live is greater than mine, techies" on neowin, I don't condone senseless violence at all but I do condone putting a bullet in the face of savages.

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mokthraka

I was in a situation where I was forced to make the decision to end a mans life in order to defend my own and I acted upon that decision, the only reason that scumbag is still breathing is because his buddy attacked me from behind nearly knocking me out and therefore I was not able to finish him off. I was a mere second away from breaking a guys neck with my own hands. I was in the process of writing the story down to explain that this was an absolute situations where I had to act the way I did but my browser crashed taking my wall of text with it so all I will say is this. I made that decision in a heartbeat. I did not hesitate for a second and even though I was kind of shook up about it afterward, I am now fully confident I made the right decision and would have not felt the least bit guilty putting him down like the animal he was. You should have put them down. It is unrealistic to say "I would have not shot them", one kick to your temple and you would either be dead or brain damaged and for what? And also, shoot them in the leg? I am guessing most of you guys have never held a gun before? Hitting a leg in that situation would require you to be a navy seal commando. It is incredibly hard to hit a target that thin. Let alone a moving target that thin. My only worry would have been if you could have successfully landed a shot on the chest as that is difficult on its own. I will tell you this having been in a situation similar to yours. I would have shot them dead without a shadow of a doubt.

from the sounds of it they where not more then 5 feet away, its really not that hard to hit something at 5 feet. hell even I can hit a pop can at that distance with no 1-3 shots no problem. But if you cant hit a chest from 5 feet, I have no clue why you have a gun in the first place. their isn't really room for error at that distance, chances are, if you fire you hit

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vladmphoto

No no.......I do not agree with the posters here telling you not to protect your own life. While you have my greatest respect for your sheer bravery, you risked your own life to protect your attacker's. That is not right......You could not have known if they were armed or not and since it appears they were from a local gang, chances are high that at least one of them was. I don't pretend to know what was going on through your head but it is pretty clear how level-headed you are and how you are able to put someone else's well-being ahead of your own, Bravo! for that. I wonder if I would have reacted the same way in that situation. I would probably have been crippled by fear but honestly, I don't know if I would have pulled the trigger. I would certainly not do it intending to kill them, just to get them off me so I would probably aim for the feet where a major artery isn't in danger. Situations like this really test you in every way. Glad you are alive and well and I am staggered that random acts of violence towards an innocent bystander still happen.

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qdave

Strange and creepy story! You did the right thing, though shooting someone does not necessarily takes their life away..wounding someone in the leg would be a good message.

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former1

<snip> And also, shoot them in the leg? I am guessing most of you guys have never held a gun before? Hitting a leg in that situation would require you to be a navy seal commando. It is incredibly hard to hit a target that thin. Let alone a moving target that thin. My only worry would have been if you could have successfully landed a shot on the chest as that is difficult on its own. <snip>

Being a gun owner, and a member of the armed forces. I can happily say you see me as a Navy Seal Commando. At close range, it is not hard to hit a target especially in something the size of a gas station fore-court. They only time you'll have such difficulty is if they're too close, in which case you create the distance between you and your intended target.

If you own a gun, and plan on carrying it there's no point having it on your hip if you don't know how to use it (i.e. hit a target, stationary or moving within a scenario that's your reason for carrying. In this case self defence). To aim to maim isn't as hard as you make it out to be, sure it's a smaller target than a human chest but if you can't accurately fire your weapon - you shouldn't have it in the first place!

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Sinixstar

wow.

normally I don't do this - but yes, I signed up for this site solely to respond to this story.

Here's the deal.

You made a lot of mistakes. You had ample opportunity to avoid the situation entirely. Instead, you chose to remain in a dangerous situation. First sign of trouble - you flashed your gun. Not the best idea in the world - but it did work in giving you an opportunity to GTFO. Unfortunately you chose not to take advantage of that opportunity.

You went inside, and were informed the police were on the way.

After you flashed your gun - and you realized these guys didn't actually leave like you thought - that should have been a big red flag that they're not afraid of your gun. Being inside - you should have locked the door and waited for the police.

Not only did you not get in your car and gtfo after the first sign of trouble, not only did you not lock the door and wait for help, you actually walked out and put yourself back in a dangerous situation. These guys know you're armed, and yet they hung around and waited for you. Are you surprised you got your ass kicked? I'm not. Frankly i'm surprised they didn't take that gun from you and shove it down your throat before using it to kill the clerk.

Carrying a gun isn't about pulling the trigger or not pulling the trigger.

If you would have paid attention in your CCW class - you would have learned that carrying a gun is about a mindset of personal safety and security. Pulling a gun is a last resort. Putting distance between yourself and your attackers, removing yourself from a situation, or ideally avoiding the situation in the first place are all better options. But again - you chose to do NONE of these things, and still opted to put yourself into a situation where you should have known you were about to get beat (or worse).

If I were you - I would thank my lucky stars you're still alive.

As for the supposed commandos around here who think "aim to maim" is even a fraction of a good idea. I question whether or not you've ever actually fired a gun. You're in the military - i'm guessing a cook or someone who doesn't actually have to receive any kind of combat training. Is it difficult to hit somebody in the leg? Not especially. Is it a good idea? Absolutely not.

If you had one clue about any kind of tactical mindset - you would realize how much of a disadvantage you put yourself in taking the time to shoot someone in the leg - breaking concentration while a group of attackers rushes you. You have literally seconds to potentially save your life - and you choose to take a leg shot. Good for you. Lemmie know how that works out for you when his friend is on top of you before you can acquire his chest.

If you're a gun owner, and in the military - and received any sort of training whatsoever, and to the OP who i imagine had to take a CCW class - you should both know that you pull your gun in a life and death situation only. If it's life or death, and you have multiple attackers at close range -These people were obviously intent on doing you harm, knowing full well that you're armed. Why on EARTH do you think a leg shot is going to do any good whatsoever?

Do us all a favor - sell your guns, buy a slingshot.

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Sinixstar

re: "why not just fire a warning shot?"

I'd have fired a warning shot.

The closest to me would have hit the deck - but his buddies would have gotten the warning loud and clear.

Then again - i wouldn't have stuck around to let that happen in the first place.

Fact of the matter is - these guys knew full well he was armed - and came after him anyways. What makes you think a "warning shot" would have changed anything? They had no problems putting their own lives at risk to go after him, more than likely as a means to take his gun from him. A warning shot isn't going to change that. Even lighting one of 'em up probably wouldn't have stopped his friends. If it came to the point that he had to fire - chances are the only way he would make it out alive, is if every one of them had at least 1 hole in 'em.

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Sinixstar

Why would you have to shoot to kill? Shoot the ****** in the foot or something.

Because somehow I doubt they're going to be so nice as to return the favor.

When you're talking about the real world, and bad people are trying to do bad things - it doesn't always work the way they show in the movies.

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Sinixstar

I don't mean to come off as a total prick - but you need to realize that your actions, and some of the suggestions you've gotten from some of these... people... around here - are what get people killed. You need to understand the consequences not just to yourself, but to those around you as well. What if one of those people who attacked you took your gun away from you? Who's life is at risk now? Obviously yours. But what about the clerk? The cops who responded to the incident? Maybe some other store clerk down the road? Maybe some innocent bystander as one of these guys decided to pop off at somebody he doesn't like. What if when that nice man stopped to help you - one of them got your gun from you and shot him? There's a million and one scenarios that could have played out - all because you didn't use your head.

What did any of them do to potentially have their lives at risk - because of stupid decisions you made - or stupid suggestions like "shoot him in the foot".

Dropping the hammer on somebody is the 2nd to last thing you ever want to do. The absolute last thing you want to do is have your own weapon used against you - and worse, against someone else.

I hope you, and some of the rest of you making stupid suggestions think about that in the future.

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Memphis

I don't mean to come off as a total prick - but you need to realize that your actions, and some of the suggestions you've gotten from some of these... people... around here - are what get people killed. You need to understand the consequences not just to yourself, but to those around you as well. What if one of those people who attacked you took your gun away from you? Who's life is at risk now? Obviously yours. But what about the clerk? The cops who responded to the incident? Maybe some other store clerk down the road? Maybe some innocent bystander as one of these guys decided to pop off at somebody he doesn't like. What if when that nice man stopped to help you - one of them got your gun from you and shot him? There's a million and one scenarios that could have played out - all because you didn't use your head.

What did any of them do to potentially have their lives at risk - because of stupid decisions you made - or stupid suggestions like "shoot him in the foot".

Dropping the hammer on somebody is the 2nd to last thing you ever want to do. The absolute last thing you want to do is have your own weapon used against you - and worse, against someone else.

I hope you, and some of the rest of you making stupid suggestions think about that in the future.

You act like I don't know this? Do NOT lecture me, you have no idea of what you talk about, those crappy classes do absolutely nothing to prepare your mind, just this incident changed my mindset. Say what you want but hearing about it in a class vs having it happen are two different things., I know exactly what my actions caused, I know what mistakes I made and am man enough to admit them, but something tells me you've never been there with the condescending attitude you come off with. The parts I added in my first post make it obvious exactly how I feel about the situation and how I hope to have learned from it. Guess what, it wont play out like this next time.

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Sinixstar

You act like I don't know this? Do NOT lecture me, you have no idea of what you talk about, those crappy classes do absolutely nothing to prepare your mind, just this incident changed my mindset. Say what you want but hearing about it in a class vs having it happen are two different things., I know exactly what my actions caused, I know what mistakes I made and am man enough to admit them, but something tells me you've never been there with the condescending attitude you come off with. The parts I added in my first post make it obvious exactly how I feel about the situation and how I hope to have learned from it. Guess what, it wont play out like this next time.

Right, because being the one man army that you are now - you're going to place the whole lot of 'em under citizens arrest!

All of you get down on the ground! I'm holding you till the cops show up!

lemmie know how that turns out for you - if you're around to say anything.

You're right, I've never been in that situation. I don't allow myself to be in those situations.

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