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UFC 116 - Lesnar vs Carwin

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TheElite    127

Busted up Brock looks like Crocop.

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Damo R.    29,671

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The UFC heavyweight champion is now the undisputed heavyweight champion of mixed martial arts.

Zuffa's belt already signified the best fighter in every weight class from bantamweight through light heavyweight, and now the two big heavyweight fights of the last two weekends -- Fabricio Werdum's shocking upset over Fedor Emelianenko and Brock Lesnar's comeback win over Shane Carwin -- have resulted in a changing of the guard in the heavyweight division as well.

Lesnar is undeniably the sport's No. 1 heavyweight, but how does the rest of the top 10 shake out? Find out below.

(Editor's note: The individual fighter's ranking the last time we did heavyweights are in parentheses.)

Top 10 Heavyweights in MMA

1. Brock Lesnar (2): We saw on Saturday night that Lesnar isn't just a big, strong bully who overpowers his opponents. He's a complete mixed martial artist who can overcome adversity and find a way to win even when the fight doesn't go according to plan. That's why Lesnar is the best heavyweight in the sport.

2. Shane Carwin (3): Who ever thought we'd see Lesnar get dominated the way Carwin dominated him in the first round on Saturday night? I don't think there's any other fighter on earth who could have withstood the kind of punishment Carwin was dishing out against Lesnar. I'd pick Carwin to beat any other heavyweight in the world.

3. Junior dos Santos (6): You could argue that it's too early to have dos Santos this high in the heavyweight rankings. After all, it was only a couple years ago that people thought he was being rushed into his first UFC fight, against Fabricio Werdum, before he was ready. But dos Santos destroyed Werdum, he's destroyed four more opponents in the Octagon since then, and I expect him to destroy Roy Nelson and get a heavyweight title shot some time in early 2011.

4. Fabricio Werdum (9): Traditionally, in combat sports, when you beat the champion you become the champion. And since Werdum beat Fedor – who for several years has been widely recognized as the heavyweight champion of MMA – you could make a case that Werdum deserves to be No. 1. But his loss to dos Santos makes it pretty much impossible to call him No. 1. And, of course, if he hadn't lost to dos Santos he'd still be in the UFC and wouldn't have fought Fedor. So he'll have to settle for being the best heavyweight outside the UFC.

5. Fedor Emelianenko (1): Fedor is still the greatest fighter in the history of the sport, but every great athlete has to decline eventually, and Fedor certainly has. The Fedor who beat Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira in 2003 and 2004 wouldn't have gotten caught in the triangle choke that made Fedor tap to Werdum, but that Fedor doesn't exist anymore. He's still one of the sport's best heavyweights, but he's not the very best, and it's highly unlikely that he ever will be again.

6. Cain Velasquez (5): He's 8-0 and now the UFC's No. 1 contender, and although I thought his stand-up left a lot to be desired when he fought Cheick Kongo last year, he has shown marked improvement in subsequent TKO wins over Ben Rothwell and Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira. He'll be an underdog in his next fight, but he'll have a very good chance of pulling the upset.

7. Alistair Overeem (4): Overeem may be more upset that Werdum beat Fedor than Fedor was. Overeem desperately wanted to be the one to dethrone the Last Emperor, and now that Fedor has lost, the Strikeforce heavyweight champion may be shut out of the promotion's biggest fight as a Fedor-Werdum rematch is looking likely. Overeem remains one of the best heavyweights in the world, both in MMA and in kickboxing, but we don't know when he'll defend his increasingly irrelevant Strikeforce heavyweight title.

8. Frank Mir (7): We don't know when Mir will fight again either, but after previously considering a move down to light heavyweight, he has more recently said he'd like to earn rematches with the last two men to beat him, Lesnar and Carwin.

9. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira (8): With TKO losses to Mir and Velasquez, it's clear that Nogueira is past his prime. He's still relevant in the division, though, and rematches with either Mir or Mirko Cro Cop would be big draws for the UFC.

10. Brett Rogers (10): Rogers dropped off most Top 10 lists after Overeem destroyed him in May, but I still think he matches up favorably with most of the rest of the heavyweight division, including Antonio Silva, who could face Rogers next.

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rajputwarrior    280

brock's the best people... get used to it!

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Bubbabyte    14

brock's the best people... get used to it!

Agreed. I gained alot of respect for him, not only because of how much he's grown as a fighter, enough so to pull off a submission, but he handled himself really well after the fight and was very humble and even admitted post fight that he got his ass handed to him in the first round, which i didn't expect him to be saying. I only hate him a little now :p

If Carwin can work past the cardio issue, he will be back on top. I agree with that list above for the most part, I really don't see carwin going anywhere and the way he handled brock in the first round, was scary.

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rajputwarrior    280

Agreed. I gained alot of respect for him, not only because of how much he's grown as a fighter, enough so to pull off a submission, but he handled himself really well after the fight and was very humble and even admitted post fight that he got his ass handed to him in the first round, which i didn't expect him to be saying. I only hate him a little now :p

If Carwin can work past the cardio issue, he will be back on top. I agree with that list above for the most part, I really don't see carwin going anywhere and the way he handled brock in the first round, was scary.

honestly all that carwin fight proved was my half rebuttal to what i said earlier in the thread, he's a completely one dimensional fighter (i know he can do more, but that's all he really showed in that fight and takedown defense i guess)

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Bubbabyte    14

honestly all that carwin fight proved was my half rebuttal to what i said earlier in the thread, he's a completely one dimensional fighter (i know he can do more, but that's all he really showed in that fight and takedown defense i guess)

I get what your saying, but in all honesty with an average fight length of 1:08, how many dimensions can he really show? You can't call him one dimensional just because he KO's people early. I mean all anderson silva does is stand up, so we could assume that's all he knows how to do..lol But with every fight just over a minute average, surely you can't expect him to show a whole arsenal of skills. If anything his takedown defense should tell you right away that he has pretty amazing wrestling skills, because nobody has been able to stop brocks takedown until him, that's gotta count for something.

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rajputwarrior    280

I get what your saying, but in all honesty with an average fight length of 1:08, how many dimensions can he really show? You can't call him one dimensional just because he KO's people early. I mean all anderson silva does is stand up, so we could assume that's all he knows how to do..lol But with every fight just over a minute average, surely you can't expect him to show a whole arsenal of skills. If anything his takedown defense should tell you right away that he has pretty amazing wrestling skills, because nobody has been able to stop brocks takedown until him, that's gotta count for something.

and you are completely right again. He did show he had skills with the takedown defense. He has a strenght and that's his punching power so why not use it. The problem with this fight though, he didn't have a plan b. just plan a which was to pummel brock and it almost worked... But by the third minute of the first round he looked completely gassed.

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DavidM    329

Agreed. I gained alot of respect for him, not only because of how much he's grown as a fighter, enough so to pull off a submission, but he handled himself really well after the fight and was very humble and even admitted post fight that he got his ass handed to him in the first round, which i didn't expect him to be saying. I only hate him a little now :p

If Carwin can work past the cardio issue, he will be back on top. I agree with that list above for the most part, I really don't see carwin going anywhere and the way he handled brock in the first round, was scary.

Yep, watching him take the punishment that Carwin dished AND surviving AND beating Carwin so quickly in the second earned Brock a lot of respect from me as well. I also lost a lot of respect for Carwin, when Brock got him down he just laid down and gave up. Knowing the fight could go 5 rounds why would you not work your cardio a heck of a lot more?

Hopefully Carwin will work his cardio a hell of alot more before the rematch.

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Bubbabyte    14

and you are completely right again. He did show he had skills with the takedown defense. He has a strenght and that's his punching power so why not use it. The problem with this fight though, he didn't have a plan b. just plan a which was to pummel brock and it almost worked... But by the third minute of the first round he looked completely gassed.

I'm sure he trained knowing that at some point he would probably be on the ground.. problem is he gassed bigtime. If he didn't gas so hard, i could see him doing a repeat of round 1 again, but he's got a cardio problem that was exposed bigtime.

Yep, watching him take the punishment that Carwin dished AND surviving AND beating Carwin so quickly in the second earned Brock a lot of respect from me as well. I also lost a lot of respect for Carwin, when Brock got him down he just laid down and gave up. Knowing the fight could go 5 rounds why would you not work your cardio a heck of a lot more?

Hopefully Carwin will work his cardio a hell of alot more before the rematch.

Well i'm sure he did train for it, or at least as much of it as he could expect. But again, i think it all goes back to the thorn in his side, which is that avarage fight length of 1:08. He never made it out of first round with anyone, so he probably had never gassed and didn't get a chance to even test his cardio in the other fights. If you've never had the problem, you can't correct it, ya know. But he's got a huge cardio issue if he's gassing after one round, but otherwise that's really the only thing i can see being his problem.

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Zoom7000    148

I'll join the crew by admitting Brock earned a lot of respect this past Saturday night and it was good to see a humble, none-WWE Brock Lesnar. Regardless of the fact that Carwin gassed, he did land some major shots and big props to Brock for weathering the tornado and bigger props to Josh Rosenthal for giving Brock the chance to hang in there. I have to admit, I cringed when I saw him announced as the ref, but he did the job well there.

As for Carwin, he'll be back, definitely. He played it wrong and gambled everything on the first round stoppage. I could tell half way through his flurry of punches that he was about to gas. He's not been out of the 1st round and more than likely, he probably wasn't expecting it as soon as he started to land those major bombs on Brock. The positives he can take from this fight was that Brock was almost scared to stand with him and went down relatively easily after he landed some decent shots. Also, his takedown defence was pretty impressive. If/When he gets his rematch, we'll see a calmer Carwin and he'll probably pace himself out better for the rematch.

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Bubbabyte    14

I'll join the crew by admitting Brock earned a lot of respect this past Saturday night and it was good to see a humble, none-WWE Brock Lesnar. Regardless of the fact that Carwin gassed, he did land some major shots and big props to Brock for weathering the tornado and bigger props to Josh Rosenthal for giving Brock the chance to hang in there. I have to admit, I cringed when I saw him announced as the ref, but he did the job well there.

As for Carwin, he'll be back, definitely. He played it wrong and gambled everything on the first round stoppage. I could tell half way through his flurry of punches that he was about to gas. He's not been out of the 1st round and more than likely, he probably wasn't expecting it as soon as he started to land those major bombs on Brock. The positives he can take from this fight was that Brock was almost scared to stand with him and went down relatively easily after he landed some decent shots. Also, his takedown defence was pretty impressive. If/When he gets his rematch, we'll see a calmer Carwin and he'll probably pace himself out better for the rematch.

I feel the same way about Rosenthal.. but you know what's really funny is that Mazagatti was supposed to be the ref, but Lesnar had a chip on his shoulder from him calling the first Mir fight and took it to the Nevada State Athletic Commission (NSAC) and had them change the ref.. bet he's glad he made that choice now.

READ HERE

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t_r_nelson    97

I didn't think Lesnar looked hurt when Carwin jumped on top of him. He was definitely stunned when he was standing, but when he was down and covering up, it wasn't to the the point that fight should have been stopped. He was trying to block the punches and tried to kick Carwin off him shortly after he went down. Covering up and moving his head like he was doing was enough to show that he was aware of his surroundings.

Good decision not to call it. And Rosenthal was right on top of it. He can see the fighters eyes and how they're reacting better than the viewers can see.

Lesnar still has a lot of work to do. But it's easier for him to have holes in his MMA skills because he's so overpowering. Even if Carwin was gassed, I don't think he could get away from Lesnar. Everyone talks about how freakishly strong he is. And there is no doubt about his pure wrestling skills.

If he can continue to improve his stand-up defense and his ground defense, he'll be champion for a long time.

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Damo R.    29,671

Here are the disclosed fighter salaries from UFC 116. The total disclosed payroll for the show was $923,000:

Brock Lesnar: $400,000 (no win bonus)

def. Shane Carwin: $40,000

Chris Leben: $86,000 ($43,000 win bonus)

def. Yoshihiro Akiyama: $45,000

Chris Lytle: $52,000 ($26,000 win bonus)

def. Matt Brown: $10,000

Stephan Bonnar: $50,000 ($25,000 win bonus)

def. Krzysztof Soszynski: $10,000

George Sotiropoulos: $24,000 ($12,000 win bonus)

def. Kurt Pellegrino: $25,000

Brendan Schuab: $20,000 ($10,000 win bonus)

def. Chris Tuchscherer: $12,000

Ricardo Romero: $16,000 ($8,000 win bonus)

def. Seth Petruzelli: $10,000

Kendall Grove: $50,000 ($25,000 win bonus)

def. Goran Reljic: $5,000

Gerald Harris: $20,000 ($10,000 win bonus)

def. David Branch: $6,000

Daniel Roberts: $12,000 ($6,000 win bonus)

def. Forrest Petz: $6,000

Jon Madsen: $16,000 ($8,000 win bonus)

def. Karlos Vemola: $8,000

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DirtyLarry    2,097

Wow. I had no idea they made the peanuts they do, no wonder I kept/keep hearing bad things about that Dana White dude or whatever his name is. That is messed up pay for sure. People can say all they want about boxing being dead (which I agree) but at least they walk away with million dollar pay days. I do realize UFC fighters fight more frequently than boxers, but they also put a lot more at risk, and should be compensated properly.

I just started getting into it, I am a UFC noob, I fully admit it, and I am still not convinced I actually like it as part of it is a reflection of the downfall of civilization to me, but damn that just seems insane to me how little they make. Is the fighters small pay a known issue among the fans?

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D. S.    426

Wow. I had no idea they made the peanuts they do, no wonder I kept/keep hearing bad things about that Dana White dude or whatever his name is. That is messed up pay for sure. People can say all they want about boxing being dead (which I agree) but at least they walk away with million dollar pay days. I do realize UFC fighters fight more frequently than boxers, but they also put a lot more at risk, and should be compensated properly.

I just started getting into it, I am a UFC noob, I fully admit it, and I am still not convinced I actually like it as part of it is a reflection of the downfall of civilization to me, but damn that just seems insane to me how little they make. Is the fighters small pay a known issue among the fans?

Very few boxers make that much money and the chances to earn it are few and far between. Boxing is only profitable for that small elite.

Fighters in MMA get paid a salary per fight according to their draw power. On top of that there are bonuses in play for wins, submissions etc in addition to the sponsors. Some fighters like Rashad get a % according to PPV buys. It's all about draw power. The more of a draw, the more you can negotiate your contract.

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TheElite    127

The majority of fighters get peanuts. Only like 20%, who are at the top, make good money. Still nothing like boxing though. Now-a-days a good boxer who only started out in the pro's a couple of years ago fights for millions.

Carwin got nothing compared to Brock, yet he's supposed to be in the top 5 best in the world.

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Damo R.    29,671

Yeah I was quite surprised by how low Carwin got, I mean I would love $40k but for what he's doing I would expect more, Lesnar must be the highest paid (other then maybe Randy)

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Bubbabyte    14

Wow. I had no idea they made the peanuts they do, no wonder I kept/keep hearing bad things about that Dana White dude or whatever his name is. That is messed up pay for sure. People can say all they want about boxing being dead (which I agree) but at least they walk away with million dollar pay days. I do realize UFC fighters fight more frequently than boxers, but they also put a lot more at risk, and should be compensated properly.

I just started getting into it, I am a UFC noob, I fully admit it, and I am still not convinced I actually like it as part of it is a reflection of the downfall of civilization to me, but damn that just seems insane to me how little they make. Is the fighters small pay a known issue among the fans?

Like someone had already mentioned, only a very SMALL % of boxers actually make that kind of money, and just like MMA it all has to do with draw power. Sure i think some of the fighters get paid less than they should, just for the fact that they are fighting, but you have to start somewhere. Someone for example like Gordon Rejic who got $5000, most likely a) couldn't get more in any other organization and/or b) chose to take the lower pay to be in the UFC and try to make a name for himself. Also, keep in mind the salaries listed above do not include fight bonuses, sponsorships, percentages and other unofficial payments. It's a business where you HAVE to be extremely talented/gifted and you need to have appeal. Someone like Gordon Rejic may have a passion for MMA, but at $5000 a fight plus all the time training and expenses, he would either have to have a boatload of sponsorships (unlikely) or have a day job. At the end of the day it goes back to how talented you are, if you just can't cut it at $5000 a fight and you're still losing, you may want to think of a plan B because you just don't have the talent/time/skills to move up.

The majority of fighters get peanuts. Only like 20%, who are at the top, make good money. Still nothing like boxing though. Now-a-days a good boxer who only started out in the pro's a couple of years ago fights for millions.

Carwin got nothing compared to Brock, yet he's supposed to be in the top 5 best in the world.

Carwin is one of the best in the world, however he's new to the UFC. This being his 5th fight, he may have had a conditional contract or a 5-6 fight contract at 40k a fight. Just because he moves up the ranks doesn't make his initial contract void, he's still under that contract. I'm sure once his contract is up, and he renews it will be a much improved contract as he is CURRENTLY one of the top HW's. Brock was new as well, however he had a HUGE following that was guaranteed to bring PPV buys, so of course he's going to make more.

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