OpenOffice 3.3.0 RC10 out NOW!

[Growled Member]

How much support are they getting from OpenOffice?

[ozgeek]

You could pay $150 dollars for a ribbon interface and a few Windows centric features? You can essentially get a low-end version of the home edition online for free.

Where.

This thread shows that many people care for how an application looks and not how an application is used (which is the main reason why people download the program in the first place). A office suite is a office tool and not a game or entrainment tool. Office users don't care how a GUI looks like as long as it perform tasks they are created for. Many people completed tasks just fine with older versions of MS Office.

The change to Ribbon to save time is infact a placebo effect. you don't actually save time. Infact it gave me more time because all the tools are out in the open and I have to look all over the ribbon to find what I want, where as in the menu system, I can see File, View, Document, Options, Help. I want to change documents properties...ahh it's under Document. Want to save? File menu. With Ribbon, too much tools out in view, overwelming me with tools I do not need.

[alexalex]

How much support are they getting from OpenOffice?

Oracle suffocates OpenOffice. You better get the real "OpenOffice" which is LibreOffice.

[PyX]

This thread shows that many people care for how an application looks and not how an application is used (which is the main reason why people download the program in the first place).

Oh please... Both are important, and it appears OpenOffice or LibreOffice lack those. A nice GUI makes anything fun, appealing to use. Why do you think Apple has such a huge success at the moment with these iPhones, iPads and iPod Touches? Put the same functionality in an iPhone, but a half-assed interface and Apple can forget about making an iPhone 5, it won?t sell.

The major strength that made Word 2007 surpass every other Text Editing application is their Styles. You can preview them all in under a second just by looking at them and you?ve got a bunch of options to edit them. On first look, you cant preview styles in OpenOffice, and the window to edit them is one I want to close as soon as I open it. So many tabs, so many checkboxes, so many options... Ugh, tt scares the hell out of me.

Next to that is the way you can apply a quick effect to a bad looking picture to actually make it great. I can?t use Photoshop and Pixelmator all the time on my Mac, or I would never be done with it.

Finally, the way they embedded equations. In a scientific community, you can?t go the OpenOffice, LibreOffice or MathType way when you know what Word offers.

The Ribbon interface DOES make things faster, more obvious and a less boring.

Oh yeah, by the way, I own a Mac because I hate Microsoft.

[torrentthief]

you have to remember most office workers just write letters, edit documents, create spreadsheets etc, so there isn't much functionality that they will be missing.

[Samurizer]

Finally, the way they embedded equations. In a scientific community, you can?t go the OpenOffice, LibreOffice or MathType way when you know what Word offers.

Um, in a real scientific community, people would be using LaTeX.

[PyX]

Um, in a real scientific community, people would be using LaTeX.

Yeah, that was before a good GUI to design equations existed.

LaTeX is probably bug-free by now and it?s exceptionally good, but do you have any idea about how hard it is to write equations in this thing?

[Samurizer]

Yeah, that was before a good GUI to design equations existed.

In other words, even now.

LaTeX is probably bug-free by now and it?s exceptionally good, but do you have any idea about how hard it is to write equations in this thing?

Yes, I do. But we're talking about scientific communities here, not undergrad research teams at university. Do you have any idea how much faster it is to write equations using LaTeX once you've learned it?

[PyX]

In other words, even now.

Yes, I do. But we're talking about scientific communities here, not undergrad research teams at university. Do you have any idea how much faster it is to write equations using LaTeX once you've learned it?

Sorry, but Word actually features a nice GUI to make equations. I suspect you haven?t used it a lot.

Plus, there?s nearly no difference from the point of view of a LaTeX user, because you can still write like LaTeX (\alpha, \Alpha, \beta, \Beta, ...) and Word will automatically convert those into the correct characters.

[LiquidSolstice]

RC10 = Failure at development.

Not saying they failed in making the suite, just that they failed somewhere along the process when they chose to release their first RC. If it took them 10 tries to get an RC down, I sure as hell will not be using it.

[torrentthief]

3.3.0 rc10 isn't the newest version, 3.3.2 is out but for some reason someone decided to bring up this old topic.

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

Yeah, that was before a good GUI to design equations existed.

LaTeX is probably bug-free by now and it?s exceptionally good, but do you have any idea about how hard it is to write equations in this thing?

Pretty easy really if you use an IDE for LaTeX.

[Samurizer]

Sorry, but Word actually features a nice GUI to make equations. I suspect you haven?t used it a lot.

Plus, there?s nearly no difference from the point of view of a LaTeX user, because you can still write like LaTeX (\alpha, \Alpha, \beta, \Beta, ...) and Word will automatically convert those into the correct characters.

*facepalm*

Any half-competent LaTeX user can easily tell you that there's more to writing equations than simply the characters. There's alignment, custom wrapping, matrices, vector notations, and a bunch of other things.

I'll just stop here, because obviously a discussion regarding this issue with a non-LaTeX user isn't going to get anywhere.

[PyX]

Any half-competent LaTeX user can easily tell you that there's more to writing equations than simply the characters. There's alignment, custom wrapping, matrices, vector notations, and a bunch of other things.

Word supports any of that... It shows you haven?t used it. Do you want me to post pictures of what I?ve done with it or...?

That IDE for LaTeX didn?t look like a user-friendly GUI for me. There?s still LaTeX code that you need to take care of - not user friendly.

I?m not saying it sucks, I?m just saying it?s not user-friendly, and incorporating this feature in Word changed the game (at least for me, who?s never had trouble displaying huge matrices, divisions and equations). The only thing is, since it?s vector-based and it always seems to update when you scroll down, it?s damn slow.

But sorry, between the hard way and the easy option that covers 95% that features a GUI interface and that can be opened on-the-go with every computer that has just Word on it, my choice has to be the simplest. ;)

[Samurizer]

Word supports pretty much any of that...

... with a slower, more cumbersome input method than LaTeX, yes.

That IDE for LaTeX didn?t look like a user-friendly GUI for me. There?s still LaTeX code that you need to take care of - not user friendly.

But sorry, between the hard way and the easy option that covers 95% that features a GUI interface and that can be opened on-the-go with every computer that has just Word on it, my choice has to be the simplest. ;)

You export TeX documents into a wide variety of formats, including PDF. And by the way you keep emphasizing on user-friendliness, you really need to stop talking about scientific communities where the priority is on efficiency, speed, and versatility, not catering for the lowest common denominator.

[Udedenkz]

I don't know what is easier than writing x_i or x^y and having it format it correctly for you.

MS Office formula editor is really easy to use.

Additionally,

when it comes down to proper rendering of shapes, checker board patters done with tables, and formulas -

OpenOffice is nowhere to be found.

The LibereOffice/OpenOffice/Lotus interfaces are not even competitive with XP.

Office 2003 has a much better interface... I for one think this is plain sad.

It is easy to take notes with Office 2007 and higher, while with OpenOffice functionality seems to be missing or hidden away.

I honestry tried taking notes on algorithms and stuff with OpenOffice, closed it after some time and resumed working in WordPad.

I just couldn't use it...

I mean even the really simple things are thrown to the shat on, in LibreOffice there is "A A A" and in MS Office "B I U" (may not be in the order). B for Bold, I for Italic, and U for Underlined - what the **** does A A A stand for?

[PyX]

... with a slower, more cumbersome input method than LaTeX, yes.

I?m starting to wonder if you actually read my posts, or keep saying crap about something you don?t know.

As I said before, Word supports LaTeX input and it can export to LaTeX writing too. Yes I?m writing x_i^2 because I know the shortcut and Word automatically converts it graphically for me so I can say, by this simple visual, if it?s good or not.

You export TeX documents into a wide variety of formats, including PDF.

PDF format is uneditable. I can send the Word document to anybody and he will change my x_i^2 to x_i^3 in this huge formula at a glance.

On another note, I?m used to think that scientific communities DO overcomplicate things when there is no complication. I?m used to engineering software, and I can tell you they are all half-assed, really hard to use software. And to get back on topic, OpenOffice is no way a good solution for formulas, unlike Word or LaTeX.

[Samurizer]

I?m starting to wonder if you actually read my posts, or keep saying crap about something you don?t know.

Well, at least on my end, it's pretty clear that you assume that just because you're able to type x_i^2 means that the system in question is good for editing equations.

PDF format is uneditable.

Except that it's only one of the many formats that you can export to.

On another note, I?m used to think that scientific communities DO overcomplicate things when there is no complication. I?m used to engineering software, and I can tell you they are all half-assed, really hard to use software.

Oh, okay. So when you get caught out on your erroneous claim that scientific communities use Word for serious editing tasks, your defense is to say "well, they SHOULD be using Word instead"? Cool.

Like I said, going to stop discussing this matter with someone with no idea about LaTeX or equations editing beyond high school level.

[PyX]

Like I said, going to stop discussing this matter with someone with no idea about LaTeX or equations editing beyond high school level.

I?m an engineer in 8 months and Word has always more than sufficed me to summarize all my classes. All of my documents are systematically better presented, more uniform and way easier to understand than those provided by my teachers.

So I guess it does a pretty good job for university too, right?

[PyX]

Oh, okay. So when you get caught out on your erroneous claim that scientific communities use Word for serious editing tasks, your defense is to say "well, they SHOULD be using Word instead"? Cool.

You misunderstood me or didn?t read me. I said "now Word is finally a viable option for scientific communities". I didn?t say it was used a lot, hell if I know. I know LaTeX has been renown for a lot of time, but it?s time to move on from something archaic now that a (good) GUI exists.

[Samurizer]

I?m an engineer in 8 months and Word has always more than sufficed me to summarize all my classes. All of my documents are systematically better presented, more uniform and way easier to understand than those provided by my teachers.

So I guess it does a pretty good job for university too, right?

At the undergraduate level, pretty much anything works as long as you throw enough time and effort at it. I've even seen people use Google Docs to produce some pretty decent-looking reports.

In a serious scientific environment, on the other hand, you just won't find people wasting time with Word just because it's more "user-friendly".

[PyX]

In a serious scientific environment, on the other hand, you just won't find people wasting time with Word just because it's more "user-friendly".

As I said, no time is wasted because all your LaTeX knowledge can be reflected in Word. You basically throw all your LaTeX equations into it and it converts every piece of LaTeX code into visual equations automatically.

Importing/Export To/From LaTeX also works.

[Samurizer]

As I said, no time is wasted because all your LaTeX knowledge can be reflected in Word. You basically throw all your LaTeX equations into it and it converts every piece of LaTeX code into visual equations automatically.

Importing/Export To/From LaTeX also works.

*facepalms*

Good luck drawing, oh, say, a commutative diagram, or matrices, with LaTeX code in Word, for example.

I'm sorry, but your ignorance about the subject matter that you're trying to talk about is beyond atrocious. Have you EVER touched TeX? Surely your lecturers must have at least encouraged you to learn it for your final year project, or something?

[PyX]

*facepalms*

Good luck drawing, oh, say, a commutative diagram, or matrices, with LaTeX code in Word, for example.

I'm sorry, but your ignorance about the subject matter that you're trying to talk about is beyond atrocious. Have you EVER touched TeX? Surely your lecturers must have at least encouraged you to learn it for your final year project, or something?

Nope. If I?m not mistaken, only electrical engineers and mathematicians learn LaTeX in our school. Nobody in my program missed it so far, and I?m on the last year.

It does matrices very nicely actually, but indeed it does not do commutative diagrams. However, I don?t find the following commutative diagram user-friendly at all :

\begin{tikzpicture}
  \matrix (m) [matrix of math nodes, row sep=3em,
    column sep=3em]{
    & f^\ast E_V& & \vphantom{f^\ast}E_V \\
    f^\ast E & & \vphantom{f^\ast}E & \\
    & U & & V \\
    M & & N & \\};
  \path[-stealth]
    (m-1-2) edge (m-1-4) edge (m-2-1)
            edge [densely dotted] (m-3-2)
    (m-1-4) edge (m-3-4) edge (m-2-3)
    (m-2-1) edge [-,line width=6pt,draw=white] (m-2-3)
            edge (m-2-3) edge (m-4-1)
    (m-3-2) edge [densely dotted] (m-3-4)
            edge [densely dotted] (m-4-1)
    (m-4-1) edge (m-4-3)
    (m-3-4) edge (m-4-3)
    (m-2-3) edge [-,line width=6pt,draw=white] (m-4-3)
            edge (m-4-3);
\end{tikzpicture}

It basically draws a cube.

A nice and simple application could do this easily with a GUI, but none that I know of exist yet. Outside LaTeX, I don?t see any professional solution that would work, only amateur solutions like Visio could do the trick.

But user-friendly GUIs can never be beaten. Apple has proven it to the industry a bunch of times already. We?re past the DOS age now, you know. ;)