Mac OS X Lion Discussion

[Rudy]

You updated and you can't see it? It should be where Expose and Spaces was.

[PyX]

It is, but apparently for some reason Apple have pulled it for people that have the Lion server extra installed.

Lion Server? Damn, worst thing is I wasted an hour installing that to see if it could replace my MAMP easily or not?

Okay, well I guess I?ve seen everything that?s new on other forums and here. I?ll just move along.

?

I heard someone else on another forum not having Mission Control in System Preferences. Must be a bug or something.

PS : The login screen with the screensaver in the background is plain awesome :) Without, it?s as if you were still booting your Mac, maybe a little too plain for me. However, I never understood why you could never change the wallpaper in the background in previous versions, at least this one makes more sense.

[.Neo]

The prefpane is still called Expos? and Spaces... Any way to correct this?

Edit Seems to me the name is the only thing that hasn't been updated for some reason. All the new preferences are there, so it doesn't really bother me.

[Rudy]

The prefpane is still called Expos? and Spaces... Any way to correct this?

Edit Seems to me the name is the only thing that hasn't been updated for some reason. All the new preferences are there, so it doesn't really bother me.

Kinda weird how some people would have it updated and some not :unsure: Is your build number 11A459e?

[Quillz]

The prefpane is still called Expos? and Spaces... Any way to correct this?

Edit Seems to me the name is the only thing that hasn't been updated for some reason. All the new preferences are there, so it doesn't really bother me.

Same here. I'm using the latest build and it's still called "Expose & Spaces." No idea why.

[.Neo]

Is your build number 11A459e?

Yeah, it is. It's still a developer preview, so who cares really? :p

Gotta love how basically every part of the interface is being updated in Mac OS X Lion, that hasn't when Mac OS X Leopard was released. Even iChat has new text bubbles corresponding with the new Aqua. (Y) I still feel Mission Control isn't as practical as Expos? though. :unsure:

I have one huge BUT when it comes to Mac OS X Lion though: All changes seem to be superficial, interface related. When it comes to actual new features and functionality little has changed from Mac OS X Snow Leopard. I mean, where are the big new features? It reminds me of iPhoto '11: updated interface, no new features. :/

[.Neo]

Hell has frozen over btw. The Finder now finally supports the cutting of files: The feature is called "Move Item Here" though and "Cut" itself is still limited to text only.

To "cut" a file simply copy it (cmd + C) > Go to whatever folder you want to move it to > Hit cmd + option + V. Or in the Menu Bar hold down option and "Paste" will change to "Move Item Here".

[Manish]

Hit cmd + option + V

Any reason why they couldn't have gone with the traditional "cmd + X"?

[.Neo]

Can't stand how Launchpad and the window animations are still a big mess in DP3... I'm honestly starting to worry a bit about these two aspects... :/

Any reason why they couldn't have gone with the traditional "cmd + X"?

To make the feature as non-destructive as possible probably? Microsoft has certain security build into Windows Explorer to prevent cutting from being potentially destructive, this is Apple's solution. I can imagine Apple wants to prevent people from accidentally hitting cmd + X instead of cmd + C as well. Just a wild guess here.

[iKenndac]

Any reason why they couldn't have gone with the traditional "cmd + X"?

Apple are real sticklers for consistency (yes, yes, I know...). Everywhere else, Cmd+X makes the selected thing immediately disappear. Doing that with files is certainly a bad idea - Windows special-cases the Cut command for files to not remove anything until the Paste completes. Rather than making Cut behave differently in this particular circumstance, they added a new command on the Paste end.

Personally, I prefer this way. "Cutting" a file never ever made sense to me. Cut means "remove this thing and put it in volatile storage that will be replace with the next thing cut or copied". I never ever want to do that with files!

Can't stand how Launchpad and the window animations are still a big mess in DP3... I'm honestly starting to worry a bit about these two aspects... :/

Are you talking window animations in non-Apple apps? If so, resign that it'll be a mess for a while. The animation is defined by the application, and in older apps where it's not been defined, it tries to guess. However, since guessing what an application is going to do with a window is hard, it gets it wrong.

[cooky560 Veteran]

I like the new wallpapers :)

[.Neo]

Are you talking window animations in non-Apple apps? If so, resign that it'll be a mess for a while. The animation is defined by the application, and in older apps where it's not been defined, it tries to guess. However, since guessing what an application is going to do with a window is hard, it gets it wrong.

I can launch Disk Utility from Mac OS X Snow Leopard in Mac OS X Lion and its window will animate, so it's not hard-coded into the application itself. I have no third-party applications installed on Mac OS X Lion, purely talking about the build-in ones: There's no consistency there. Some applications like Safari, Disk Utility and some dialogue windows will open with a "pop" animation. Some application windows will open by scaling (similar to Finder windows in Mac OS X Snow Leopard). Some applications and dialogue windows don't display any animation at all and just open instantly (copy windows, Address Book, iCal etc.).

So basically:

Why do Safari, Disk Utility, Automator, TextEdit, QuickTime X, System Information and dialogue windows pop?

Why do Preview and the Finder scale?

Why do System Preferences, Dictionary, Font Book and iCal display no animation at all?

Beyond that applications that pop or scale sometimes don't pop and scale and just appear instantly. :s

[iKenndac]

I can launch Disk Utility from Mac OS X Snow Leopard in Mac OS X Lion and its window will animate, so it's not hard-coded into the application itself.

Like I said - for applications that don't have the animation type defined on their windows, Lion chooses one I'm guessing based on the window type. I'm guessing the animation type hasn't been explicitly set of those applications yet.

[iKenndac]

Why do Preview and the Finder scale?

They're scaling in windows from the document/folder you double-clicked on, just like Finder in 10.6 and lower does. This behaviour (window animating from the icon) is now present in document-based apps - I've seen it applied to some non-Apple document-based apps as well.

[Unrealistic]

Hell has frozen over btw. The Finder now finally supports the cutting of files: The feature is called "Move Item Here" though and "Cut" itself is still limited to text only.

To "cut" a file simply copy it (cmd + C) > Go to whatever folder you want to move it to > Hit cmd + option + V. Or in the Menu Bar hold down option and "Paste" will change to "Move Item Here".

Awesome, and quite clever. Good news.

[iKenndac]

Ah, here we go - in Xcode, the order in animation is a property of each window, and its default is "Inferred Behavior", where Lion choses for you. There are a number of animation types you can set explicitly, too.

Well, that answers it - animation style is largely in control of the application, and the application must explicitly set the animation style if Lion gets it wrong.

[PyX]

To make the feature as non-destructive as possible probably?

It?s not going to be destructive if they use Microsoft?s way.

Hell, they could even add a 3 minutes expiration timer to it, and after that, the Cut & Paste action is completely cancelled.

However, this is a very good move to finally include this option.

You?re scaring me when speaking about window animations and LaunchPad. As I said I cannot test it because I have the server version, so I?ll take your word. If LaunchPad is just incomplete, it doesn?t matter too much when we consider that this build is for Developers. Devs couldn?t care less about LaunchPad, it?s not going to change their job. However, when it comes to window animations, what will they choose if it?s a random animation chosen per application? Apple should have gotten it right since the beginning, devs will be confused and will give us something with zero uniformity. Apple should provide a specific function for window animations, and by default it pops, but if you add an argument in the function, you can make it scale, pop, etc. It?s the only solution at this point to stop all this confusion.

Like you say, I?m still waiting for new major features. The ones we know are all so well implemented in Lion that we barely even see them :laugh:

On another note, I feel special because I reported a few pages ago the French voice speaking in DP1, which wasn?t present anymore in DP2, and now it?s back in DP3 and makes the press on some websites. Nuance voices are all included, and are usually featured at $15/voice or language pack. Just this partnership alone can make Lion cost $129 or even a little more.

Edit : Can you guys post a screenshot like this under DP3 ? I suspect the following one was falsified, because my build didn?t support it all the way to 3.2 :

[Simon Veteran]

I've hit a kind of strange bugs - the App Store reports all of my applications as "installed," but none of them are in the Launchpad or my Applications folder. My first assumption was that Lion had scanned my Snow Leopard partition and found them there, thus reporting them as installed... but then I noticed that none of my partitions, Snow Leopard or Windows 7, are showing up in the sidebar.

Is this something anyone else is experiencing, or should I do up a detailed bug report detailing why it could only be happening to me?

[Elliott]

Edit : Can you guys post a screenshot like this under DP3 ? I suspect the following one was falsified, because my build didn?t support it all the way to 3.2 :

Make sure you have the latest version of that app. Older versions didn't correctly detect the OpenGL 3.2 extensions that are now in Lion.

[iKenndac]

However, when it comes to window animations, what will they choose if it?s a random animation chosen per application? Apple should have gotten it right since the beginning, devs will be confused and will give us something with zero uniformity.

Sigh.

Since you're a developer, which must be since you have the Developer Preview, I take it you missed the part of the documentation where it's describes, in detail, which animations should be used when to provide a consistent user experience?

Simply put, when an application puts a window on screen, the OS has absolutely no idea what it's for. The developer does, so it's the developer's responsibility to do it correctly.

Have any of you heard of the Human Interface Guidelines? It's a 400-page long document, by Apple, describing how a Mac OS application should look and feel. Absolutely none of it can be enforced by the OS, but yet we still have a relatively consistent UI on Mac OS because if you don't conform to the guidelines, your application sticks out and looks like crap.

Of course you're all developers and me linking said document is completely silly, but oh well, here it is anyway.

In summary: animations can't be enforced by the OS any more than "Icons in capsule toolbars should use a straight-on perspective with minimal shadow" (page 154) can. However, there are guidelines for which animation should be used where.

The reason they're not consistent yet. THIS IS A DEVELOPER PREVIEW.

but then I noticed that none of my partitions, Snow Leopard or Windows 7, are showing up in the sidebar.

Finder -> Preferences -> Sidebar -> Make sure the relevant thing is ticked. It unticks some by default, for some reason.

[Simon Veteran]

Finder -> Preferences -> Sidebar -> Make sure the relevant thing is ticked. It unticks some by default, for some reason.

Ahh, that did it - the Hard Disks section had a "-" rather than a checkmark, very weird...

[celticpride678]

Is anyone seeing issues with Safari? When I reload some pages, the page itself reloads but the actual display is still not non-reloaded page...

[PyX]

Have any of you heard of the Human Interface Guidelines?

You mean the document you linked that was last updated in 2009 and that hasn?t been updated for Lion? The one that doesn?t talk about windows-that-appear animations because Apple didn?t want them? Yes, this one.

In summary: animations can't be enforced by the OS any more than "Icons in capsule toolbars should use a straight-on perspective with minimal shadow" (page 154) can.

If it?s done programmatically, as opposed to graphics, which can?t be done programmatically, of course it can.

The reason they're not consistent yet. THIS IS A DEVELOPER PREVIEW.

Then yes, of course, it should have been consistent across the entire OS by Developer Preview 1. That?s the point of a Developer Preview : developers see these applications made by Apple and will try to make their own apps resemble these while the human-interface guidelines haven?t been updated yet for Lion. If Apple hasn?t even agreed on which window animations are used, what can the developer do? Take a guess maybe?

[iKenndac]

You mean the document you linked that was last updated in 2009 and that hasn?t been updated for Lion? The one that doesn?t talk about windows-that-appear animations because Apple didn?t want them? Yes, this one.

Yes, the public one I linked to that was last updated when Snow Leopard was publically released. I'll link to the public Lion one when Lion is publically released.

If it?s done programmatically, as opposed to graphics, which can?t be done programmatically, of course it can.

And the way it's done programatically is by telling the Window which animation should be used. Previous to Lion, there was no real way of telling the system "This is a document window" because it wasn't needed. I'm assuming you haven't read any documentation, because the animations are actually named by their window type - alert window animation, document window animation, and so on.

If Apple hasn?t even agreed on which window animations are used, what can the developer do? Take a guess maybe?

Like I said - developers can read the Lion documentation, which states very clearly which animation is to be used when. Apple has agreed when they should be used, it just hasn't implemented it in all of its applications yet.

Ahh, that did it - the Hard Disks section had a "-" rather than a checkmark, very weird...

Yes, me too. I filed it as a bug, but I wonder if they're not showing non-boot drives intentionally. Which is weird.

[PyX]

Like I said - developers can read the Lion documentation, which states very clearly which animation is to be used when. Apple has agreed when they should be used, it just hasn't implemented it in all of its applications yet.

There?s a file I haven?t seen yet then.

Case solved.