Spanking your kids is a Felony

[Calum Veteran]

Lets not forget, that children figure out really quickly that once they can survive a spanking, they can do anything...Its a joke really how all these pro spankers think its gonna save their failed parenting.

Excellent point :yes:

To all of those who advocate spanking: You state that spanking is needed because other punishments do not always work; however, my question is: What do you then do if spanking doesn't work? The obvious next question is then: Where do we stop? I've pointed out that we should stop when it gets to the possibility of physically harming the child (spanking), but a lot of you believe we should carry on and wonder into the territory of placing our hands on our own children. So, where do you all think we should stop if spanking doesn't work? Do you have other, worser punishments up your sleeves? Do you believe we should stop there with the spanking, and maybe take the child to a behavioural specialist? If you believe we should stop there and get professional help, why not stop just a step before and save physically harming the child?

People used to not bring guns and knives to school and shoot/stab people there, but we see it more often now. Correlation with the lack of spanking? Maybe.... :shiftyninja:

Perhaps, but as there is no proof of that, it can certainly not be used to justify physically harming children :)

[trag3dy]

Rare is the kid who still doesn't mind after being spanked. I'm around kids quite a lot, aging from just over 1 year old to 8 years old and I've yet to see any of them misbehaving after the point where spankings were needed.

Obviously the 1 year old isn't getting spanked, but for the older ones..

Like I said before, kids don't learn from talking to. They learn from seeing, doing, and experiencing.

[Ghost5525]

But where do we draw the line? I know a staff member that was suspended from work(at the school) for yelling at a kid because he hurt the childs feelings. Do you want to know what was said? "I am calling your father!" BTW, the child was 12.

Maybe the kid should be home schooled since hes too much of a little bitch to handle being told "im calling your father" and having his damn feelings hurt..

Sometimes the only way to put a brat in line is by a good spanking. Time out doesn't work, trust me, I stayed good when I thought I was going to get a spanking, but when threatened with time out I never listened as a kid.

And I'm ashamed of Texas, come on, I thought you were supposed to be the state with common sense.

A f*in men ... i knew if i messed up my ass (literally) had it coming.

Well I feel better about society after reading so many people still think spanking is necessary... I was beginning to worry because all you ever hear are people getting in trouble for spanking on the news...

Me too, i was beginning to think we were raising generations of sissies and environments where the KIDS rule the parents not the other way.

All punishment is abuse, but we have to punish people somehow otherwise they won't learn. I disagree that such emotional distress is worse than physically abuse; physical abuse not only physically hurts, but it teaches the child that it's okay to hit others. We send criminals to jail because while it's emotionally distressing, it doesn't physically hurt them. Of course, I'm not comparing criminals to misbehaving children; I'm comparing the punishment for acts deemed innappropriate by both children and criminals.

Well tell us how that works out when you have kids...if you ever do. We'll see how long it takes for them to realize you're a doormat

[Jebadiah]

Some also drop comparisons between spanking and lower IQ scores but I think that is simply because spanking is more commonly associated with lower income parents (and lower income parents tend to have children with lower IQ scores anyway).

Sounds like a terribly flawed IQ test.

[SierraSonic]

Excellent point :yes:

To all of those who advocate spanking: You state that spanking is needed because other punishments do not always work; however, my question is: What do you then do if spanking doesn't work?

What ages are you asking here?

Infant (0-1.5 Years): Shouldn't be spanked, too young, it's pointless as it won't have any effect just like every other form of punishment, which you have to ask, why would you punish a toddler?

Toddler (1.5-3 Years): Only as a last resort. Spanked only to punish stupid behavior that can be considered life threatening to the child itself, even after telling it and teaching it many times that what it is doing can be life threatening. (some people at this point prefer to let nature take its course for certain things, the child will eventually learn what can or cant kill it as it gets older by experiencing things after all.) Children this ages usually are up for exploring anything and everything, they will put whatever into their mouths, etc. These trivial things can usually be taken care of without spanking. But for situations where the kid keeps wanting to drown in a toilet (after breaking through 3 sets of child-proof door, gates, etc), burning its hands off on the oven, or downing in a gated pool because they are smart enough to open the gate but not to realize that a pool is dangerous, may call for some spanking on the 20th or so attempt at killing itself in the SAME manner.

Child (3-9 years): Only as a last resort. Spanked only because they are purposely misbehaving, ignoring logic, and every other form of punishment failed. (again i repeat, as a last means trying many many many times every other way in every age group) This age children know what can and cant kill them for the most part, but they act out in other ways with people, animals, and property. They will damage stuff just for the lulz. Pranks start becoming big, and problems get worse and worse. I believe this is around the age Cartman from south park is, he's a really good example at showing the many possible bad things a child can start doing at this age. Sure they wont do all the stuff he does, but they will try some of the stuff, or even other stuff just as bad. (Now this is all just going on the assumption that the child is still acting out at these ages, most kids start calming down around this age, others are just getting started).

Tween (10-12): Only as a last resort. Spanked do to purposely acting out and cause tantrums, or if they fight you or others, among other serious issue. (this is usually the time spanking becomes less effective, because children at this age tend to listen to their friends more than parents for advice on just about everything, and as a result of getting older children realize that punishment isn't the end all be all. Funny enough this is also the age when taking items they own away from them is more effective. Such as cellphones, game consoles, and computers, as they are now old enough to use these constantly and understand their worth, etc.) Note it usually has to be something illegal or immoral from now on to receive a spanking.

Teen (13+): At this point the child acting out is a little more serious. Spanking isn't a solution on a teenager as they have way usually outgrown the punishment, but as they are more materialistic (cell phones, computers, gaming consoles, cars, etc) these options work great against bad behavior. If they continue on a road of badness and are at the point where they are violent and dangerous to others, send them to boot camp. If they are still just being whiny brats, take their stuff. If they do stupid stuff like running away or damaging property or other malice stuff. Involve police or go with them to counseling, or send them to a school for trouble youths, or military school. If any professional help would be warranted.

Now before you think I'm saying spanking can be applied to all situations, you are WRONG, there is a right place and time for spanking. Spanking is not done out of hate, it is done out of love for the child to teach it that what they are doing is potentially dangerous, harmful, stupid, immoral, or illegal. You will know when to spank. Spanking isn't going to work to stop a crying toddler or infant, it isn't going to stop a teen from running away; being truthful and above all else caring is what counts. Spanking is only used as a last deterrent it in most situations will never even be a thought in a parents head, it is not used as a shortcut, it is not used for small stupid ****, it is only used in situations where the parents have tried everything else THEY could do without involving anyone else. Most kids will be spanked less than 10 times in their lives, not all children are perfect little angels or the sharpest crayon in the box, depending on the situation (every situation is different and has to be handled differently) it is ultimately up to the parent to decide when and what punishment is appropriate, as they have been dealing with the child the whole time, they know the whole story and are the most likely people to know what will and wont work on their child.

This guideline isn't really a guideline just some observations I've made in my life. Don't take it as fact. I just wanted to point out that everyone here so far hasn't been explaining what they would do when at what age. Everything depends on the situation given. You would be surprised how easily a toddler can be there playing one second peacefully in the living with some toys, and the next be out in the street passed two doors with child proof locks, all while the parent just went to fetch a bottle or change a diaper for the other kid, or any other short 30 second situation. Heck you'd be surprised how many times a toddler can sneak out of a house while plain sight, and then the parents have to go chasing the kid. Which will only run away further after being chased with a smile on their face without a care in the world.

So let me ask you Callum, what would you do if your child, lets say a teenager, has already been punished, had his electronics taken away, and was grounded. Snuck out, went to a party, and started drinking and tried some drugs? Would you think that conversation you already had with him about drugs be more effective they 4th time around? What about taking what was already taken? No matter what you say, you'll most likely say "well what if spanking didn't work either". I would say it's time for some professional help. :)

[Fred Derf Veteran]

Sounds like a terribly flawed IQ test.

All IQ tests are flawed. They measure upbringing just as much as they measure "raw" intelligence.

[LoSt187]

Sorry but I don't buy that spanking is child abuse, in many cases the child will get hurt anyway if they're not disciplined, such as with wall sockets and trying to climb on furniture. If the parents don't have a set system for disciplining their child, and instead only spank them or ground them when they get angry enough, there is a greater chance of abuse because the decision and terms of the punishment are more likely to be vindictive or excessive. And before a child begins to grasp language and learns to understand words, they react primarily to tone of voice and body language. And screaming things "No, thats bad, you're a bad boy/girl!" constantly will only frighten the child. Spanking if employed to create an association between the concept of bad, and as a result of their actions, can be used to teach them what bad is, and they will be more likely to react the word. This lessens the use of spanking by associating pain with a word that you can use instead of spanking.

When I was growing up, my father had a set system of discipline, when you did something bad you had 2 choices, you could choose grounding, which was anywhere from 1-3 weeks from either playing with friends, playing videogames, or watching tv, or a mix of the three for harsher offences. Or you could choose spanking, which was 1-3 owwie or 1-3 non-owwie swats, depending on how bad you were. I'd always go for the spanking because I never thought that anything I did was worth weeks of boredom, I'd much rather have an hour or two of pain to that. And I still learned my lesson. I think the only thing wrong I ever did more than once was try to ride my black lab, Sebastion. And before the punishment was given, my dad would decide exactly what the two options would be from the guidelines above. So I always knew how severe the spanking was before I chose it, and I learned a sort of relative value for time lost versus pain felt. If I ever have kids, this is pretty much how I intend to raise them. By setting limits for me to adhere to for discipline, I'll be able to make a better judgement on just what an offense is worth, and with an established system for severity, my kids can begin to learn the how severely wrong their actions were.

[Kaemon]

There are other ways to teach a child a lesson, as I have pointed out. Confiscating the devices they like to use every day is one of the best ways; they soon learn then. Grounding is another effective method.

for some children this doesn't change anything.

[HawkMan]

Well tell us how that works out when you have kids...if you ever do. We'll see how long it takes for them to realize you're a doormat

So if you don't beat up your kids you're a doormat? funny how the best behaving kids nowadays with the best grades and the best attitude, and respect, are the ones who are raised properly.

Not with spanking or other physical punishment(abuse). neither with the ones who do the open upbringing where they can do whatever they want. but the parents that simply teach their kids how to behave and earn respect. I've never seen a spanking cause anyone to learn it's wrong, neither have I ever seen it earn the parents respect in the kids eyes, fear perhaps, which is often misinterpreted as respect by both the parent and kid in those homes, but not respect.

[Soulsiphon]

What about spanking your wife? :shifty:

Not a felony, but we need pictures :whistle:

[Calum Veteran]

for some children this doesn't change anything.

Neither does spanking, for some children, so why go to the extent of physically hurting our children if it might not work?

[mudslag]

Neither does spanking, for some children, so why go to the extent of physically hurting our children if it might not work?

Just like people, children are not all the same so there is no one punishment fits all. Spanking works on some and not others. Just like groundings, time outs, taking away toys and what not works on some and not others.

[trag3dy]

So if you don't beat up your kids you're a doormat? funny how the best behaving kids nowadays with the best grades and the best attitude, and respect, are the ones who are raised properly.

Not with spanking or other physical punishment(abuse). neither with the ones who do the open upbringing where they can do whatever they want. but the parents that simply teach their kids how to behave and earn respect. I've never seen a spanking cause anyone to learn it's wrong, neither have I ever seen it earn the parents respect in the kids eyes, fear perhaps, which is often misinterpreted as respect by both the parent and kid in those homes, but not respect.

Because spanking = beating your kid up. Seriously, why do people keep over exaggerating this? So many times in this thread people have made this exaggeration and I don't get it. Okay, you don't like spanking, we get it, but lets be real here, we're not talking about beating kids down with a baseball bat or anything.

A child on any given day will hurt themselves far more than a spanking ever will. Should we just lock kids in padded cells until they turn 10 for their own safety? Kids learn far more from pain than they do from anything else, and that's a fact. Now don't take that the wrong way, please. For example. You're out camping, you line your fire pit with rocks. Kid walks over and decides he wants to pick up a rock near the fire pit to find out it's really hot. Kid won't do that again. Telling the kid, "hey don't touch the rocks near the fire, they're hot" won't work until they experience it themselves. This is how kids learn.

[Calum Veteran]

Just like people, children are not all the same so there is no one punishment fits all. Spanking works on some and not others. Just like groundings, time outs, taking away toys and what not works on some and not others.

That's my point. Spanking doesn't always work, so because it physically harms/hurts the child, it should never be used. There is no reasonable argument for spanking, especially when one cannot be sure it will work, because it physically hurts the child. This is of course my opinion because I don't like the idea of physically hurting people, ever.

[SierraSonic]

That's my point. Spanking doesn't always work, so because it physically harms/hurts the child, it should never be used. There is no reasonable argument for spanking, especially when one cannot be sure it will work, because it physically hurts the child. This is of course my opinion because I don't like the idea of physically hurting people, ever.

Have you ever played that game where you hold your hands above another persons hands and they have to try to slap your hands, well that game only starts to hurt after about 50 really good slaps. A couple of slaps is really nothing. I think you are over exaggerating the pain children feel. They feel a slight stinging for a couple of minutes. I also noticed you COMPLETELY ignored my earlier post.

[sweetsam]

Forget the slaps and enjoy that brats :)

[Dinggus]

You were spanked as a child and you ended up in the military. That would be consistent with the studies on spanking.

I can count on one hand the number of times I was spanked.. Just because I ended up in the military doesn't have to do with the way I was raised. I joined the military for my own personal reasons.

[sweetsam]

I can count on one hand the number of times I was spanked.. Just because I ended up in the military doesn't have to do with the way I was raised. I joined the military for my own personal reasons.

So if we need more people to join the military all we need to do is spank the kids. Whew that's easy!

[mudslag]

That's my point. Spanking doesn't always work, so because it physically harms/hurts the child, it should never be used. There is no reasonable argument for spanking, especially when one cannot be sure it will work, because it physically hurts the child. This is of course my opinion because I don't like the idea of physically hurting people, ever.

You wont know what punishment works till its done. Many times the threat alone is all that is needed. Id rather stick with something that has worked with more kids through history. Like I said before, its a last resort but it will NEVER be off the table.

[Dinggus]

So if we need more people to join the military all we need to do is spank the kids. Whew that's easy!

Who ever said because I was disciplined as a child, it made me join the military? No one.

[Seizure1990]

That's my point. Spanking doesn't always work, so because it physically harms/hurts the child, it should never be used. There is no reasonable argument for spanking, especially when one cannot be sure it will work, because it physically hurts the child. This is of course my opinion because I don't like the idea of physically hurting people, ever.

And what if spanking IS what works? And the only thing that works? I guess it's ok to let your child grow up into a spoiled brat that never listens.

That way, someone can make a topic about the next 13 year old to go and steal from the grocery store, and you can bitch about how the parents obviously didn't do their job right. :rolleyes:

[Thino]

That's my point. Spanking doesn't always work, so because it physically harms/hurts the child, it should never be used. There is no reasonable argument for spanking, especially when one cannot be sure it will work, because it physically hurts the child. This is of course my opinion because I don't like the idea of physically hurting people, ever.

sure but children put you in extreme situations sometimes where something MUCH WORSE than spanking could happen to them if they're not listening to your words or your yells.

what would you do if you have your kid playing on the balcony bar when you already told him not to before , and you are living on the 2nd floor for example?

[Tom]

Yes, it is. It hurts them whether the pain is a little amount or not. Physically hurting a child is abusing them.

There are other ways to teach a child a lesson, as I have pointed out. Confiscating the devices they like to use every day is one of the best ways; they soon learn then. Grounding is another effective method.

Neither worked on me and I doubt they'll work on other kids either.

This is ridiculous tbh. Spanking = OK. Hitting = Not.

There's a distinction.

[sweetsam]

Who ever said because I was disciplined as a child, it made me join the military? No one.

That was a sarcastic remark, a response to the quote below.

You were spanked as a child and you ended up in the military. That would be consistent with the studies on spanking.

[majortom1981]

Keep in mind that the child Still had red marks on her bottom.

I think one small smack to the butt is different then bending them over your knee and hitting them a couple of times. I think this woman DID go overboard since the red mark was still there way after the fact.