Xilo Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 It's not broken for anyone. If something works as the creators or developers intended, it cannot reasonably be deemed broken by anyone. Something could even be unusable, but if it was intended to be like that, it would not be broken. As it happens, this new Chat interface isn't unusable, but it does not work in the way many people desire. That doesn't mean it is broken for those users as it works in the way the developer intended; it simply means many users dislike how it functions. Stop being so facetious man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo1911 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Callum needs to chill. Facebook chat is broken/useless update/Zuckerberg's idea to get even with his buddy/whatever. Me and my friends are back to google chat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJens Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Don't like that thing, never used the chat feature anyways. Chat was always disabled, and the new bar thingy is disabled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 ********* move ever, I really would love to know what the heck those guys were discussing to come out with such a crappy update. It was just fine like it was before, completely good. Nobody likes it, NOBODY in my friend list likes it. And yes I use it to speak with real life friends, why waste minutes/messages when you can talk live with them through facebook? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Veteran Posted July 27, 2011 Veteran Share Posted July 27, 2011 Stop being so facetious man. I'm not being facetious. It's important that I point out when people are wrong. As a software developer, I would hate if users went around incorrectly telling others my software is broken just because they dislike how it functions. Callum needs to chill. Facebook chat is broken/useless update/Zuckerberg's idea to get even with his buddy/whatever. Me and my friends are back to google chat. I'm very chilled out; I don't need to chill. I'm simply helping those who appear to not understand what 'broken' means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xilo Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I'm not being facetious. It's important that I point out when people are wrong. As a software developer, I would hate if users went around incorrectly telling others my software is broken just because they dislike how it functions. Yes, you are. You're making a very concerted effort to prove yourself correct as is apparent by your posts. You are arguing about English semantics and you are the only one making a bid deal about how it's "not broken". In my opinion, it sounds more like you're just trolling for the sake of argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xilo Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 edit: double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grayscale Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Bumped this to inform those who are still annoyed that Enzyme from userscripts.org has already (the way I see it) completed his chat bar script . Full Friend List (Group) support! Shows ALL online/idle friends Shows ONLY online/idle friends (Doesn't show offline friends) Orders friends by first name Groups friends by online and idle. Shows total number of online/idle friends when chat bar is open and closed. Chat bar adjusts in size based on how many friends you have online. Does not realign the page when chat opens Header to the top of chat that closes the menu when clicked. Works for both HTTP and HTTPS Keep the list of online friends on the left hand side of the page always visible even when the chat dialog opens. Adds "View Profile" link to the cog menu in each chat window to easily view the profile of the person you are talking to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kondrath Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Bumped this to inform those who are still annoyed that Enzyme from userscripts.org has already (the way I see it) completed his chat bar . It's amazing. Never thought I'd appreciate the old chat sidebar so much. He did a great job. Link - http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/107159 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon H Supervisor Posted August 7, 2011 Supervisor Share Posted August 7, 2011 i also found an extension that just completely reverts the sidebar back to the old styled list chrome: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/bfipfkeoidmndggnnpobeenlamiclald firefox: https://addons.mozilla.org/en/firefox/addon/fb-chat-sidebar-disabler/ opera: https://addons.opera.com/addons/extensions/details/facebook-chat-sidebar-disabler/?display=en Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinetix63 Veteran Posted August 7, 2011 Veteran Share Posted August 7, 2011 As a software developer, I would hate if users went around incorrectly telling others my software is broken just because they dislike how it functions. I think this here is the biggest point. Having worked with developers for many years now, it's the end user that matters - not the developers opinion on whether or not it is broken. It really doesn't matter if it serves the function as specified, because as a developer that's the way you'll always see it, and quite rightly so - you need something to benchmark whether or not you are doing a good job. The issue here is that, from what I can see, a vast majority of end users really dislike the sidebar and don't really "get" what it's for. If that's the case, then as far as I'm concerned, I agree that it's broken. I personally can't stand the thing as it functions very differently from how the chat menu used to. It's a big shift that's not been communicated very well, and doesn't do what people want it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis W. Veteran Posted August 7, 2011 Veteran Share Posted August 7, 2011 I still don't get how Facebook chooses what friends show up on the right. Of the 18 people that show up while on Facebook on my laptop, I interact with 4 of them via Facebook, an additional 3 of them once within the last few months, and the rest almost rarely, if at all. I'm not too peeved off at the (perceived) dumbing down of this sidebar as I usually use Facebook chat via a desktop IM client. Still prefer the older style though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Flynn Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 I think this here is the biggest point. Having worked with developers for many years now, it's the end user that matters - not the developers opinion on whether or not it is broken. It really doesn't matter if it serves the function as specified, because as a developer that's the way you'll always see it, and quite rightly so - you need something to benchmark whether or not you are doing a good job. The issue here is that, from what I can see, a vast majority of end users really dislike the sidebar and don't really "get" what it's for. If that's the case, then as far as I'm concerned, I agree that it's broken. I personally can't stand the thing as it functions very differently from how the chat menu used to. It's a big shift that's not been communicated very well, and doesn't do what people want it to. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julius Caro Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Callum, I think WE'VE GOT the message. It wouldn't kill for you to stop saying that "it isn't broken". As for the sidebar, they're still tuning it, as now it behaves differently. You can't defend the whole "it isn't broken because it is the way they intended it to be" because they're changing their intentions every 5 minutes, and nobody actually knows where the hell they're doing with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Veteran Posted August 8, 2011 Veteran Share Posted August 8, 2011 I think this here is the biggest point. Having worked with developers for many years now, it's the end user that matters - not the developers opinion on whether or not it is broken. It really doesn't matter if it serves the function as specified, because as a developer that's the way you'll always see it, and quite rightly so - you need something to benchmark whether or not you are doing a good job. The issue here is that, from what I can see, a vast majority of end users really dislike the sidebar and don't really "get" what it's for. If that's the case, then as far as I'm concerned, I agree that it's broken. I personally can't stand the thing as it functions very differently from how the chat menu used to. It's a big shift that's not been communicated very well, and doesn't do what people want it to. It's all down to the terminology. I completely understand why users don't like the new updates, and why they don't believe it suits their wants (I dislike that I can't see everyone who is online in the sidebar anymore), but it isn't broken because it works as it should work. Users may not think it should work like that, but seeing as they are not the developers, they cannot assert it is broken; they are not the people who make design decisions at Facebook. Suggesting the new updates have broken Facebook Chat would be just like me suggesting that the 'Add reply' button on Neowin Forums is broken because it posts my reply rather than makes me a cup of tea. Do you agree that would be wrong of me to say? If you do, you must see my point here. If something works as the developers/designers intended, it isn't broken. There is nothing wrong with my analogy either because Invision Power Board didn't intend the 'Add reply' button to make people cups of tea, just like the Facebook developers didn't intend for users to be able to see everyone who is online in the sidebar (or for anything else the Chat product now doesn't do). Callum, I think WE'VE GOT the message. It wouldn't kill for you to stop saying that "it isn't broken". As for the sidebar, they're still tuning it, as now it behaves differently. You can't defend the whole "it isn't broken because it is the way they intended it to be" because they're changing their intentions every 5 minutes, and nobody actually knows where the hell they're doing with this It's clear that not everyone has got the message because people are still disagreeing with me; as long as people continue to disagree, I will continue to point out that it isn't broken. I can defend it because them tweaking the product doesn't change their original intentions. All decent developers listen to users' feedback if they'd like their product to be successful, but them making changes doesn't affect their original intentions. Their current intentions are for it to be how it is currently, or for how it will be when any changes that are in development go live; however, their original intentions were for how it was when it was released, otherwise they wouldn't have released it in that state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Star Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 i also found an extension that just completely reverts the sidebar back to the old styled list chrome: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/bfipfkeoidmndggnnpobeenlamiclald firefox: https://addons.mozilla.org/en/firefox/addon/fb-chat-sidebar-disabler/ opera: https://addons.opera.com/addons/extensions/details/facebook-chat-sidebar-disabler/?display=en Bumped for the new page. Installed and happy. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Veteran Posted August 8, 2011 Veteran Share Posted August 8, 2011 Yes, you are. You're making a very concerted effort to prove yourself correct as is apparent by your posts. You are arguing about English semantics and you are the only one making a bid deal about how it's "not broken". In my opinion, it sounds more like you're just trolling for the sake of argument. There's nothing wrong with me doing that. Why would you suggest I should stop? If people are posting incorrect nonsense, they should be challenged. I'm not trolling at all. As a developer, I'm very passionate about this issue. People incorrectly claiming one's product is broken could lead to gullible people (or people not in the know) incorrectly believing it is broken and subsequently being put off the product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon H Supervisor Posted August 8, 2011 Supervisor Share Posted August 8, 2011 There's nothing wrong with me doing that. Why would you suggest I should stop? If people are posting incorrect nonsense, they should be challenged. I'm not trolling at all. As a developer, I'm very passionate about this issue. People incorrectly claiming one's product is broken could lead to gullible people (or people not in the know) incorrectly believing it is broken and subsequently being put off the product. you know what, stop, just please stop, both of you whether or not it is broken is of no relevance here, that is for a completely different topic of discussion and shouldn't be argued here, it is only serving to derail this thread I'm ashamed because you as a mod should know better than to argue an off topic point like this now please stick to the topic of whether or not you like the new sidebar, if you want to continue to argue please do it via PM where everyone else doesn't have to deal with it Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YounGMessiah Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Bumped for the new page. Installed and happy. :) Thanks, I installed and I am very pleased and happy now :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mail Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Callum you are a master troll (Y) :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom7000 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 @Browno - How did you manage to get the left hand friends' list to appear as in the screenshot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiHu Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Callum is right. And on another point. Not bothered with sidebar. got rockmelts sidebar instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julius Caro Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 It's all down to the terminology. I completely understand why users don't like the new updates, and why they don't believe it suits their wants (I dislike that I can't see everyone who is online in the sidebar anymore), but it isn't broken because it works as it should work. Users may not think it should work like that, but seeing as they are not the developers, they cannot assert it is broken; they are not the people who make design decisions at Facebook. Suggesting the new updates have broken Facebook Chat would be just like me suggesting that the 'Add reply' button on Neowin Forums is broken because it posts my reply rather than makes me a cup of tea. Do you agree that would be wrong of me to say? If you do, you must see my point here. If something works as the developers/designers intended, it isn't broken. There is nothing wrong with my analogy either because Invision Power Board didn't intend the 'Add reply' button to make people cups of tea, just like the Facebook developers didn't intend for users to be able to see everyone who is online in the sidebar (or for anything else the Chat product now doesn't do). It's clear that not everyone has got the message because people are still disagreeing with me; as long as people continue to disagree, I will continue to point out that it isn't broken. I can defend it because them tweaking the product doesn't change their original intentions. All decent developers listen to users' feedback if they'd like their product to be successful, but them making changes doesn't affect their original intentions. Their current intentions are for it to be how it is currently, or for how it will be when any changes that are in development go live; however, their original intentions were for how it was when it was released, otherwise they wouldn't have released it in that state. Well, you can't be talking about their intentions if you don't know their intentions. "Their current intentions", I'm pretty sure, are not to cause trouble or confusion to their users. ou're bringing the whole thing into the territory of semantics, rather than actually discuss the behaviour of the sidebar. People are damn right to disagree with you, and if they want to check your opinion I guess all they have to do is glance at this mess of a thread to see you posting a reply after every message. The 'hide sidebar' button worked as expected, but everytime I entered facebook again, the sidebar was still showing. Now it seems to remember my option. Is it a tweak, or a fix? Because clearly to me it wasn't working right the first time if I had to click the damn button every single time. Not to mention the inconsistencies regarding notifications now that chat and messages seem to be unified. The 'continuous messaging' they intended and demonstrated DOES NOT WORK as they intended. Some already-read messages will STILL generate notifications in the top bar even if you've read them 5 times. The mobile apps (at least android) still treat chat and messages seperately, unlike the web client. And don't even get me started and how bad the integration is when you use WLM as a facebook chat client (it wont let you write contacts that appear offline, UNLIKE the current web client, and they will show offline even if they are not, messages show as duplicates, etc). Or the android client: if it ever notifies you of chat messages, it's too late, and if your contact has gone offline, it won't show you what they wrote you and you have to log in from the web client. So if their current intentions are for the whole thing to be an unpredictable mess, then yeah, there's nothing to fix. I dont care half the contacts on the sidebar are offline to be honest. Its clearly done on purpose. But not remembering that I want it collapsed? Not a bug, are you sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Veteran Posted August 9, 2011 Veteran Share Posted August 9, 2011 Well, you can't be talking about their intentions if you don't know their intentions. "Their current intentions", I'm pretty sure, are not to cause trouble or confusion to their users. ou're bringing the whole thing into the territory of semantics, rather than actually discuss the behaviour of the sidebar. People are damn right to disagree with you, and if they want to check your opinion I guess all they have to do is glance at this mess of a thread to see you posting a reply after every message. The 'hide sidebar' button worked as expected, but everytime I entered facebook again, the sidebar was still showing. Now it seems to remember my option. Is it a tweak, or a fix? Because clearly to me it wasn't working right the first time if I had to click the damn button every single time. Not to mention the inconsistencies regarding notifications now that chat and messages seem to be unified. The 'continuous messaging' they intended and demonstrated DOES NOT WORK as they intended. Some already-read messages will STILL generate notifications in the top bar even if you've read them 5 times. The mobile apps (at least android) still treat chat and messages seperately, unlike the web client. And don't even get me started and how bad the integration is when you use WLM as a facebook chat client (it wont let you write contacts that appear offline, UNLIKE the current web client, and they will show offline even if they are not, messages show as duplicates, etc). Or the android client: if it ever notifies you of chat messages, it's too late, and if your contact has gone offline, it won't show you what they wrote you and you have to log in from the web client. So if their current intentions are for the whole thing to be an unpredictable mess, then yeah, there's nothing to fix. I dont care half the contacts on the sidebar are offline to be honest. Its clearly done on purpose. But not remembering that I want it collapsed? Not a bug, are you sure? I'm completely correct when talking about their intentions because if they release something that functions a certain way, they intended to release it that way (minus the unforeseen bugs). I'm not talking about unforeseen bugs of course; I was referring to the people who are complaining about what they deem issues that are not actually bugs. I haven't come across any bugs, including the collapsing/hide sidebar bug you're talking about (it works fine for me). The other issues you discuss are not bugs, but simply how it functions, and as I point out, Facebook would not have released the new updates if they weren't fine with the Android Facebook application and Windows Live Messenger functioning that way. You suggest this is a mess of a thread because I'm replying to every person who responds to me, but if people disagree with what I post, I have to defend it and provide logic for the person who has unreasonably disagreed. If you'd rather me not reply to you, don't originally reply to me. It would be nice if we could all get back to the topic of the actual sidebar, rather than the semantics around whether it is "broken" or not, so hopefully people will now move on from that and start discussing the sidebar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCA Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Did they change the sidebar back or something because I haven't seen the new one in a while. EDIT: Never mind it's still there. I forgot I use trillian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts