uk Muslim medical students boycotting lectures on evolution

[Exaeus]

You wrote "Infact, this religion tells you to explore this universe and the elements in it and what are its constituents", if that's the case then why aren't they willing to explore evolution then?

Because that's something that just about every religion pays lip service in order to avoid looking like backward, ignorant idjits, and is always heavily countermanded elsewhere in their holy texts lest the believers actually take it seriously and start thinking for themselves.

[Soulsiphon]

Evolution has everything to do with their professional careers.

The topic of evolution normally gets bumped into during introductory Anthropology or Biology classes for instance. By med school, they should have been exposed to this concept before now.

Chemistry and accounting have more to do with their professional careers than evolution.

[shakey]

Seeing how we have solid proof of diseases and germs evolving, it should be a required course. I think this will be a question to start asking your doctor... ," Are you religious, and if so, did you put your religious views over education?" If they answer Yes to that, probably a good sign to find a more educated doctor.

[Glen]

'What they object to - and I don't really understand it, I am not religious - they object to the idea that there is a random process out there which is not directed by God.'

If the content of the lecture is actually presented in such a way as the quote above, then I understand why a fundamentalist would take issue. If, however, the text is more subjective and does not blatantly deny the possibility of God within the design of creation, I do not.

In any case, I find it difficult to be comforted by the idea that any doctor may be so obtuse to practical scientific theory, so I would not want any of the creationists as my family doctor.

[+Gary7 Subscriber²]

Seeing how we have solid proof of diseases and germs evolving, it should be a required course. I think this will be a question to start asking your doctor... ," Are you religious, and if so, did you put your religious views over education?" If they answer Yes to that, probably a good sign to find a more educated doctor.

My Daughter has it next sysmester in College. She is a Biology major.

[FloatingFatMan]

And I think they'll be aware of this fact and won't choose it because it contradicts their beliefs.

I don't see the problem here.

And they, in no way, should fail.

I know they are upset and all and aren't doing the right thing, at least in my opinion, but it doesn't mean they won't make good doctors

I see you clearly have no understanding of immunology and it's relationship with medical practice.

You can't BE a doctor and reject a core part of the science!

[thealexweb]

Kick them off the course, problem sorted.

[ArialBlue]

Kick them off the course, problem sorted.

This.

Such a Muslim should only "faith heal" other Muslims.

Everyone else needs a real doctor.

[Dark_ph0enix]

There are two things that immediately spring to mind:

Firstly, if it can be proven by neutral experts, that by failing to undertake those particular elements of their training, these trainee doctors could potentially put the health of the people who they'll serve at risk, then they shouldn't be licenced. Simple as that. No one should be able to practice medicine whose training / knowledge, fails to meet a minimum standard.

More to the point, however, even if it can be proven that by skipping that part of their training, they're not directly putting the health of their future patients at risk, they should still be barred from practicing. For the simple fact that they're allowing their faith to take precidence over their training.

That applies to doctors of all faiths. Should a gay person be turned away, or offered "morally slanted" advice, because his / her lifestyle is at odds with the religious views of the medical professional?

What about someone who wants an abortion? Should she be denied the relevant information because her doctor is a practicing Catholic?

Religion has no place in the medical profession.

[Seizure1990]

In general, can't they just say that God built evolution into his creations and therefore evolution is not a conflict creationism? Or to even suggest that extinct ancestors are the remnants of the building blocks of god's creations? Too simple no? I guess you can't fight religion with logical explanations, as religions are not based on logic.

I was agreeing with your post, but then I got to the end and realized it was just more of the usual religion bashing, though you did unwittingly give me an opening to point out how BS that is, as there are plenty of religious folks, other then me, who also have similar ideas.

Sorry to see us all lumped in with these fools yet again due to bigotry.

[Kirkburn]

Such a Muslim should only "faith heal" other Muslims.

Everyone else needs a real doctor.

Careful about placing all muslims in the same bucket there.

[shakey]

Careful about placing all muslims in the same bucket there.

If they believe in the same religion, they probably do not differ much from how they will behave when trying to follow it. While it doesn't mean everyone is the same, if you are in the same group, there are bigger chances of it applying. It's like saying you still follow the KKK laws, you just don't believe in their harsh tactics. You are still in the group, you still have the same views towards life as them. Just because you aren't burning crosses doesn't mean you won't make the same decision as them when it comes to something dealing with your beliefs.

If you don't want to be lumped into categories, it's normally best to stay away from such things as religion, groups, and other things that do lump people together as such..... Just sayin :p

[Shadrack]

Best response ever: don't agree with something just bury your head in the sand and pretend like it doesn't exist. Honestly, what a bunch of nonsense. If you don't believe in what the professor tells you, then guess what: you don't have to agree with it.

What an absolute bull**** response from these weak minded students. I hope they all flunk because if they can't deal with that **** in academia then they are really screwed when they go into the real world.

[ozyborn]

then they can fail. Send them back to their caves to preach whatever they believe in. they sure as hell do not deserve to actually treat real people with real problems.

[Original Poster]

you shouldnt be allowed to base medical studies on anything other then science... they should NEVER be allowed to become doctors if they cant be professional... believe anything you want out side the hospital and class room but when you are in the class/hospital you assume that evolution is true regardless of what you believe ... what a bunch of idiots ...

[Seizure1990]

If they believe in the same religion, they probably do not differ much from how they will behave when trying to follow it. While it doesn't mean everyone is the same, if you are in the same group, there are bigger chances of it applying. It's like saying you still follow the KKK laws, you just don't believe in their harsh tactics. You are still in the group, you still have the same views towards life as them. Just because you aren't burning crosses doesn't mean you won't make the same decision as them when it comes to something dealing with your beliefs.

The KKK's main purpose was to promote white supremacy through terrorism. Now they just do it through legal means (officially/most of the time). We can lump all KKK members together as bigoted, because that's what they are. Islam is a religion, and seeing as there are plenty of religious people, Muslims included, who believe in evolution while still practicing, clearly you're just BSing.

If you don't want to be lumped into categories, it's normally best to stay away from such things as religion, groups, and other things that do lump people together as such..... Just sayin :p

So... to be clear, you're saying that if we don't want to be generalized, we shouldn't have a religion? Ok, if you don't wanna be generalized, you shouldn't be atheist -- you egotistical, self-righteous atheist. ;)

[lexp]

Cheap labor imported from the 3rd World in 50s and 60s strikes back!

[mudslag]

I was reffering to the post made prior to me and in that sense, medicine isn't designed by humans.

No one is talking about developing and performing it. Only a blind man would say such a thing

Illogical statement is illogical. Pharmaceutical companies would entirely disagree with you, specially considering you lack the proof to back that up.

[shakey]

So... to be clear, you're saying that if we don't want to be generalized, we shouldn't have a religion? Ok, if you don't wanna be generalized, you shouldn't be atheist -- you egotistical, self-righteous atheist. ;)

Hey now, I didn't put myself into any group. My lack of your belief doesn't put me into a group. I don't believe in any "god" at the moment, but that doesn't mean I'm part of a group for it. It's like saying all people who like chicken are a group :p

But with religion, since it is set up with certain rules, you can be more assured that those who follow such will behave as such. Not always, but it would be a more common occurrence than those who weren't bound by such. But since many people just pick and choose what they will follow in a religion, things can vary, but normally, it is within a certain spectrum/range. But that is just a whole other issue... people picking a choosing what to follow in a religion, somehow putting logic to a illogical design, with no real basis as to measure what to really hold true and not.

[Original Poster]

Hey now, I didn't put myself into any group. My lack of your belief doesn't put me into a group. I don't believe in any "god" at the moment, but that doesn't mean I'm part of a group for it. It's like saying all people who like chicken are a group :p

But with religion, since it is set up with certain rules, you can be more assured that those who follow such will behave as such. Not always, but it would be a more common occurrence than those who weren't bound by such. But since many people just pick and choose what they will follow in a religion, things can vary, but normally, it is within a certain spectrum/range. But that is just a whole other issue... people picking a choosing what to follow in a religion, somehow putting logic to a illogical design, with no real basis as to measure what to really hold true and not.

you like chicken.... you wh*re.... no but we (as non religious people) are sadly in a group we are a group of people who dont have a group. lol

and these religious rules all contradict each other (even in the same religions) for example in Christianity (and Judaism) you cannot murder someone and you cannot commit suicide but yet you can kill in the name of god and you can get someone else to kill you (by killing you with permission it is not murder but by them not doing its not a sin) and if you argue it is a sin then if your mother asks you to do it to honour her memory as she is ... then you must do it or its a sin (honour thou mother and thy farther) but if you do it then its also a sin! ha! yea no way out your going to hell :p god is for people who fear death, existence, not knowing as well not being intelligent enough to comprehend anything other then it happens cause it does..

[Dusco25]

Ahhh the Atheist make me laugh.....

Who the hell spends thousands if not millions of dollars trying to promote something they "don't" believe in? I don't believe in the tooth fairy but I sure as **** wouldn't waste my money to tell others that. These militant atheists on the net are just as bat **** crazy as the people they frown upon.

[Kirkburn]

shakey, to clarify my comment .... I was responding to:

Such a Muslim should only "faith heal" other Muslims.

Everyone else needs a real doctor.

Now swap that with 'Christian'. It's actually quite an insult to suggest that members of a religion should be subjected to crackpots within that religion just because they share a (vague) set of beliefs. Muslims need 'real' doctors, just like everyone else.

There is no good reason to subject anyone to 'faith healing' to the exclusion of real medical practices.

Ahhh the Atheist make me laugh.....

Who the hell spends thousands if not millions of dollars trying to promote something they "don't" believe in? I don't believe in the tooth fairy but I sure as **** wouldn't waste my money to tell others that. These militant atheists on the net are just as bat **** crazy as the people they frown upon.

That's just silly - because someone spends money in an attempt to educate others, that makes them 'bat **** crazy'? It's called altruism (and hell, it's not just altruism, because if people stopped believing stupid things, fewer stupid things would happen). Also, you have a weird definition of 'militant'.

[firey]

Ahhh the Atheist make me laugh.....

Who the hell spends thousands if not millions of dollars trying to promote something they "don't" believe in? I don't believe in the tooth fairy but I sure as **** wouldn't waste my money to tell others that. These militant atheists on the net are just as bat **** crazy as the people they frown upon.

No.. the Atheists promote the fact they Don't, such as the Religious people promote the fact they Do. Actually, Religious people spend way more monetarily, sacrificially (physical objects, humans, animals, etc) than non-religious people.

[mudslag]

Ahhh the Atheist make me laugh.....

Who the hell spends thousands if not millions of dollars trying to promote something they "don't" believe in? I don't believe in the tooth fairy but I sure as **** wouldn't waste my money to tell others that. These militant atheists on the net are just as bat **** crazy as the people they frown upon.

Rambling on again I see. So are you ok with religious people promoting their views? I take it's ok as long as it's only the views you agree with. It's not ok with nonbelievers promoting their views of the use of rational thinking. Why do you care anyway, it's not your money they are using.

[Dusco25]

No.. the Atheists promote the fact they Don't, such as the Religious people promote the fact they Do. Actually, Religious people spend way more monetarily, sacrificially (physical objects, humans, animals, etc) than non-religious people.

And who makes any single living human the all knowing one? WE as humans know **** about a creator or what happens after death... So why even have a argument about it? I mean really... NO ONE knows.... So why hate those that have faith? I mean really....