Handcuffed Girl, 20, In A Coma After being Tased. Police not Charged

[techbeck]

Cops have no right to ask someone for their ID if there is nothing illegal happening.

Sure they do. There is no federal law stating they have a right but some states have their own laws around this. Not every state is the same. If they have probable cause or reason of suspicion, they can ask for ID period. You can refuse all you want but that will just raise more suspicion. If you have a valid complaint and nothing to hide, then there would be no reason not to show your ID. It is pretty damn stupid to walk in to a police station in the first place wanting to file a complaint and have no ID. If you dont have ID, then provide them with your name if you having nothing to hide. He came in, asked for a form, was told he had to do, didnt get it, started to harass the officers a little and in a few cases, talked back to them.

You should educate yourself on this process before trying to back something up that you only have an opinion on, not actual facts.

I did...I looked online and did some research and it said that if cops have probable cause of suspicion you are up to no good, they can detain you and ask for your ID. And so far all you have provide for facts was a video and your opinion.

An opinion doesnt have to be factual and if I was claiming what I was saying is factual (which I never did), I would provide proof of such like I have done many other times on Neowin.

[Southern Patriot]

You sound a little like Winston Churchill: Once during a session of parliament Churchill was talking and said 'Half of the house are fools!'. Every member objected to his statement and started shouting at him to apologize. The speaker then told him to apologize to which Churchill coolly replied 'I agree. Half of the house are not fools'.

I take that as a compliment. Thank you. I'm honored to be compared to someone like him.

[shakey]

Sure they do. If they have probable cause or reason of suspicion, they can ask for ID period. You can refuse all you want but that will just raise more suspicion. If you have a valid complaint and nothing to hide, then there would be no reason not to show your ID. It is pretty damn stupid to walk in to a police station in the first place wanting to file a complaint and have no ID. If you dont have ID, then provide them with your name if you having nothing to hide. He came in, asked for a form, was told he had to do, didnt get it, started to harass the officers a little and in a few cases, talked back to them.

I did...I looked online and did some research and it said that if cops have probable cause of suspicion you are up to no good, they can detain you and ask for your ID. And so far all you have provide for facts was a video and your opinion.

So it is suspicious for a citizen to walk into a police station and ask for a misconduct report? Is it suspicious for someone to walk into Time Warner Cable and ask for a manager? Is it suspicious to walk into business and ask for a complaint form?

Again, they do not have to give any information as to why, they are supposed to just get the form and then write everything down, make copies, and send it to the appropriate parties. The only thing actually suspicious about everything is the cops hesitation and intimidation tactics they are giving.

Suspicious would be him walking into a police station, and asking what type of security they had, what type of cameras they used, or what the names and addresses of the cops where. It is not suspicious to walk into one and ask for a complaint form.

<Snipped>

Edited March 1, 2012 by Anaron

[Southern Patriot]

It's not harassing someone if you are asking for something they are supposed to give you...

Did it ever occur to you that maybe there ISN'T a form for the person to fill out? Several of the officers in that video even stated that. The only form that I'm aware of that would be filled out in a case like that is one that the officer taking someone's complaint would fill out, not one for the average citizen to fill out. And that is what several, if not all (I only skimmed through the video) of the officers told the guy. You don't fill out a form to file a complaint, you speak to an officer who takes your statement, along with verifying your identity, so that your complaint can be addressed properly.

[techbeck]

So it is suspicious for a citizen to walk into a police station and ask for a misconduct report? Again, they do not have to give any information as to why, they are supposed to just get the form and then write everything down, make copies, and send it to the appropriate parties. The only thing actually suspicious about everything is the cops hesitation and intimidation tactics they are giving.

No, it is not suspicious to file a complaint. What is suspicious is showing up at a police station, getting in the cops faces, asking for ID, refusing to do so, walking away when told to stop.

Some cops are *******s but in many of the cases of the video you posted, they were calm (up to the point when the guy just didnt get it) and told him their policy and what he had to do. Again, not all states are the same and have different policies when it comes to filing a complaint. I am sure the police gets a ton of complaints everyday from people who dont like the police, or were arrested/****ed off for being caught doing something and wanting to find a way to retaliate.

Suspicious is walking in to a police station, causing an issue when you were told what to do, not showing and ID when asked or your name. If you have a valid complaint, you would provide this info regardless if you were required to or not. Its not like you were walking down the street, got stopped and then asked for ID out of hte blue.

[Charisma Veteran]

All I can say is, wow. shakey, I'd like to come live in this magical peaceful little world you live in, where everything always goes the way it's supposed to and even criminals really aren't that bad.

And in reality, I'm really glad you (quite clearly) aren't in law enforcement. I only want people in that job who are willing to do what they need to keep dangerous people from running around causing any more harm than they already have.

[Farstrider]

<Snipped>

I think one should actually get worked up with the topic of the woman who now is a vegetable. That no matter what the circumstances, unnecessary actions by people in authority that lead to people being harmed or killed, should be stopped!

Edited March 1, 2012 by Anaron

[dead.cell]

Now - did the taser injure her? Not really. The cause of her coma was falling and striking her head on concrete (the lot), which could have happened anyhow because of her being cuffed while attempting to run during her escape attempt (off balance.) She could have just as easily hit her head being tackled, but either way this was HER FAULT!!

Hell, she could've tripped and fell on her own for that matter. :p

Totally agree with you though.

[Rygrath]

Shakey, all your posts are mostly uninformed, especially in regards to your rights and what a officer is allowed to do and for what reasons. You seems to want this shiny utopia of good will, rainbows and unicorns. I really hate to break it to you, that is not the world we live in. Nor is it a world you will find yourself living in any time soon. It has nothing to do with not for a lack of trying, as been proven time and again (if you read any sort of history) people love conflict. There are always bad people out there wanting to do bad things to someone or many. There are some people beyond rehabilitation, there are some that should be kept away from others of society.

Have you ever once had a job in where you have to suspect that any single person that comes up to you can probably put your life in mortal danger? You have to mentally prepare yourself each and every time. This video of the utter dumbass you decided to link. All I saw was a guy that couldn't comprehend directions given to him. He asked what is needed, the cops took the time to explain, it did not fit in WHAT HE PERSONALLY THOUGHT was right and therefore wasted more of their time arguing over it. It's like a person arguing against why they have a late payment when they sent the payment in late. I'd just brand them an idiot and move on.This guy is wasting the officers time, honestly I'm kinda mad he didn't get tased for taking up their time from other pressing things.

Regardless of all this, you keep spouting your opinions with nothing really backing it up. You keep saying "something else could have been done" without saying, what exactly should have been done. We don't live in a perfect world, humans are far from perfect beings. Cops put their lives on the line every single damn day. If you were in trouble, been robbed, raped, beaten etc, I bet they are the first people you call to save you. They are held to high standards and yes, there are some that let the power go to their heads and use it for harm rather than good. Luckily for us, in the grand scheme of things the good cops far outweigh the bad cops. Bad cops are usually found out and are punished accordingly.

You need to ground yourself in reality and base opinions off that instead of "what I think the world should be like if we all loved each other". Not going to happen any time soon.

So it is suspicious for a citizen to walk into a police station and ask for a misconduct report?

How obtuse are you? Is it suspicious for a person to ask for a report? No.

Is it suspicious when you are told what information you need to provide (like your name) and withholding that information? Yes.

Is it suspicious after you are told what you need to give and what the procedures are you begin to argue like you can't comprehend what is being told to you? Yes. (Is this person on drugs?)

Again, they do not have to give any information as to why, they are supposed to just get the form and then write everything down, make copies, and send it to the appropriate parties.

You know this for a fact? You know that this is the same policy for any city or county or state? Do you have a link or source of this knowledge?

Because each of those officers in that video did tell the guy exactly what each of their precincts needed. Name, Officers name, what the complaint was in regards to. One even said there'd be a video interview followed by a investigation. Another said that if what you are complaining about turns out to be a load of crock then the officer can sue you.

Your thinking works like this guys and it's kinda sad. You're not going off facts, merely your own personal opinion of what you believe should be procedure. It's why we have endless resources of our laws, rights and policies. You should probably read up on a lot of this stuff.

[Rygrath]

You know the old saying: "Sticks and stones can break my bones, but names can never harm me!" Seriously, don't let it worry you so much! :)

I think one should actually get worked up with the topic of the woman who now is a vegetable. That no matter what the circumstances, unnecessary actions by people in authority that lead to people being harmed or killed, should be stopped!

It was HER actions that brought that upon her. It was not the "authority". She could have just stood in place as she was told and not decide to flee a police station while handcuffed. HER choice to run was ill-conceived from the start. As someone else already mentioned, trying to run with your arms handcuffed behind you makes it quite easy to lose your balance and fall. Any action the officer took at that moment could have resulted in the same outcome, who's to say. Are we to blame the cop for trying to stop a fleeing felon?

If he tried to grab her, she tripped and fell. Hit her head and ended up in a coma, would you still be blaming the "authority" that this happened to her? Look at the facts, blame the person who's choices were to put other peoples lives in danger and who's choices led to her deciding it'd be a good idea to run while being handcuffed.

[shakey]

No, it is not suspicious to file a complaint. What is suspicious is showing up at a police station, getting in the cops faces, asking for ID, refusing to do so, walking away when told to stop.

Some cops are *******s but in many of the cases of the video you posted, they were calm (up to the point when the guy just didnt get it) and told him their policy and what he had to do. Again, not all states are the same and have different policies when it comes to filing a complaint. I am sure the police gets a ton of complaints everyday from people who dont like the police, or were arrested/****ed off for being caught doing something and wanting to find a way to retaliate.

Suspicious is walking in to a police station, causing an issue when you were told what to do, not showing and ID when asked or your name. If you have a valid complaint, you would provide this info regardless if you were required to or not. Its not like you were walking down the street, got stopped and then asked for ID out of hte blue.

Getting up in their face? Are you even watching the same video? He was standing at the windows. You need to start viewing things a little more accurately. It even showed him being harassed as he walked away, with some cops threatening to shoot him. You are apparently blind to this, so I will stop even replying to your comments until you make sense and stop over generalizing issues, and also, educate yourself on how it is supposed to be done. Until you do that, there is no point in talking to a wall.

<Snipped>

All I can say is, wow. shakey, I'd like to come live in this magical peaceful little world you live in, where everything always goes the way it's supposed to and even criminals really aren't that bad.

And in reality, I'm really glad you (quite clearly) aren't in law enforcement. I only want people in that job who are willing to do what they need to keep dangerous people from running around causing any more harm than they already have.

Difference in opinion. If you want cops to keep abusing citizens, just keep that attitude. Me on the other hand, I have the mindset that abuse isn't right, and will do what I can to make sure it doesn't happen. We as people have the power to change the world around us, you just have to actually do something.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Anaron

[shakey]

Shakey, all your posts are mostly uninformed, especially in regards to your rights and what a officer is allowed to do and for what reasons. You seems to want this shiny utopia of good will, rainbows and unicorns. I really hate to break it to you, that is not the world we live in. Nor is it a world you will find yourself living in any time soon. It has nothing to do with not for a lack of trying, as been proven time and again (if you read any sort of history) people love conflict. There are always bad people out there wanting to do bad things to someone or many. There are some people beyond rehabilitation, there are some that should be kept away from others of society.

Have you ever once had a job in where you have to suspect that any single person that comes up to you can probably put your life in mortal danger? You have to mentally prepare yourself each and every time. This video of the utter dumbass you decided to link. All I saw was a guy that couldn't comprehend directions given to him. He asked what is needed, the cops took the time to explain, it did not fit in WHAT HE PERSONALLY THOUGHT was right and therefore wasted more of their time arguing over it. It's like a person arguing against why they have a late payment when they sent the payment in late. I'd just brand them an idiot and move on.This guy is wasting the officers time, honestly I'm kinda mad he didn't get tased for taking up their time from other pressing things.

Regardless of all this, you keep spouting your opinions with nothing really backing it up. You keep saying "something else could have been done" without saying, what exactly should have been done. We don't live in a perfect world, humans are far from perfect beings. Cops put their lives on the line every single damn day. If you were in trouble, been robbed, raped, beaten etc, I bet they are the first people you call to save you. They are held to high standards and yes, there are some that let the power go to their heads and use it for harm rather than good. Luckily for us, in the grand scheme of things the good cops far outweigh the bad cops. Bad cops are usually found out and are punished accordingly.

You need to ground yourself in reality and base opinions off that instead of "what I think the world should be like if we all loved each other". Not going to happen any time soon.

How obtuse are you? Is it suspicious for a person to ask for a report? No.

Is it suspicious when you are told what information you need to provide (like your name) and withholding that information? Yes.

Is it suspicious after you are told what you need to give and what the procedures are you begin to argue like you can't comprehend what is being told to you? Yes. (Is this person on drugs?)

You know this for a fact? You know that this is the same policy for any city or county or state? Do you have a link or source of this knowledge?

Because each of those officers in that video did tell the guy exactly what each of their precincts needed. Name, Officers name, what the complaint was in regards to. One even said there'd be a video interview followed by a investigation. Another said that if what you are complaining about turns out to be a load of crock then the officer can sue you.

Your thinking works like this guys and it's kinda sad. You're not going off facts, merely your own personal opinion of what you believe should be procedure. It's why we have endless resources of our laws, rights and policies. You should probably read up on a lot of this stuff.

Rygath, you shouldn't speak about matters you have no clue in... But where should I start on you.... Let me try from the beginning...

You have no clue about what the rights are, because if you actually look up with a persons rights are, you would see the cop is out of line.

Second.. What jobs have I had to deal with people who are dangerous... One of my first jobs right out of highschool was Night Manager at a 24/7 gas station. I was actually robbed once, left tied on the floor. So I know how dangerous people can be. Right now, I work onsite at a business I run, where I have to make sure robberies don't occur to those who use our facility, my office, my home, and other property. Again, don't speak about matters you have no clue on.

Third, I have a uncle who was a very highly ranked officer in the police force, that quit due to the corruption he was seeing. He has told me many stories that would shock most people here, and how police help each other hide and falsify what they can to protect each other. He would tell me about their tactics when pulling people over to really scare people or get them to do something they shouldn't, and even planting evidence. He always wanted to be an officer when he was a kid, and always wanted to help protect people. After many years, he felt that the job had shifted to a bad area, and he no longer felt it was benifitial for his soul to keep up what he was basically aiding. He is now a pastor.

Now, about the "how to file a report". It is supposed to be something that is annonymous except for the parties involved. No other officer or person is really supposed to know about it, until the complaint has been resolved. Then it is up for public records. But when getting the report, you are not supposed to write your name in anything, other than that report. Again, people need to research about things instead of thinking they know. It might help if you actually looked it up instead of my just giving you the answers. People don't learn when they don't actually apply themselves.

[techbeck]

Getting up in their face? Are you even watching the same video? He was standing at the windows. You need to start viewing things a little more accurately. It even showed him being harassed as he walked away, with some cops threatening to shoot him. You are apparently blind to this, so I will stop even replying to your comments until you make sense and stop over generalizing issues, and also, educate yourself on how it is supposed to be done. Until you do that, there is no point in talking to a wall.

Getting in their faces meaning talking back to them.

You tell me to backup what I say with facts and accuse me of being factual while all along I say I am voicing my opinion and looked around a little online. Then you provide NOTHING to backup your claims.

He was harassed when walking away because the cops told him to stop and he REFUSED to do so. Thats him not complying with a request from police and this acting SUSPICIOUS. And you are telling me I dont get it and you are talking to a wall? :rolleyes:

And the video was 10 minutes long and ANYONE could of missed something. Please show me where he was threatened to be shot (what time in the video) and I will look at it again. I looked at the last 1.30 minutes of the video where he was walking away and did not see anyone threatening to shoot him. Just a guy saying "dont hurt me" when its obvious the police didnt have that intention. He just wanted the guy to stop.

I never claim to be perfect so but apparently you are.

[Dead_Monkey]

Number of civilians in the US killed by police officers each year: ~400 [ http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-10-14-justifiable_N.htm ]

Number of police officers killed in the US in 2010: 160.

[shakey]

It was HER actions that brought that upon her. It was not the "authority". She could have just stood in place as she was told and not decide to flee a police station while handcuffed. HER choice to run was ill-conceived from the start. As someone else already mentioned, trying to run with your arms handcuffed behind you makes it quite easy to lose your balance and fall. Any action the officer took at that moment could have resulted in the same outcome, who's to say. Are we to blame the cop for trying to stop a fleeing felon?

If he tried to grab her, she tripped and fell. Hit her head and ended up in a coma, would you still be blaming the "authority" that this happened to her? Look at the facts, blame the person who's choices were to put other peoples lives in danger and who's choices led to her deciding it'd be a good idea to run while being handcuffed.

Yes, her actions started it. But her actions did not warrant a coma. It did not warrant being tazored. You need to realize that there is a scale of action vs reaction. If someone jumps out of a dumpster to scare me, and I shoot them in the face because I was startled, doesn't mean I did the right thing because they started it. Just because someone runs, does not mean they deserve to be abused, shot, tazored, or battered.

[techbeck]

Number of civilians in the US killed by police officers each year: ~400

Number of police officers killed in the US in 2010: 160.

Source? And what out of those 400 civilians were criminals threatening the police and what were innocents?

[Charisma Veteran]

Difference in opinion. If you want cops to keep abusing citizens, just keep that attitude. Me on the other hand, I have the mindset that abuse isn't right, and will do what I can to make sure it doesn't happen. We as people have the power to change the world around us, you just have to actually do something.

I used to be married to a cop. I know the kind of **** they have to deal with on a daily basis, and every day he left I'd fear he wasn't going to come back to me--even with his body armour on. There are bad people out there, really bad. The number of bad, corrupt cops is very small compared to the good ones who are dealing with bad people. There are also plenty of cops who may have started out fresh and young and naive, like you seem to be, and got in a dangerous spot because of it. They learned the hard way, maybe are lucky to be alive, because they were too lenient with someone who was dangerous. They have to learn to do what needs to be done.

Let's play more "what if". What if he didn't stop her, and she had kept running, out into the street? What if you were the person driving along who had to swerve to avoid her, and run into another person, or off the road? What if you were hurt, or someone you hit died because of that? Or what if you couldn't get out of the way in time and you'd hit and killed her yourself? I suspect you'd still assume the cop was a bad, lazy guy who didn't try as hard to stop her as he could have, and you'd blame him nonetheless.

Police are human too, and they have a lot of training telling them what to do, ideally. They also have to make split-second decisions sometimes, decisions that can affect whether people live or die. They don't always make the perfect decision, nobody is always perfect. Good people can make the wrong decision when put on the spot. Plus, all the training in the world doesn't prepare you for some situations. He did what he could at the time, and unfortunately, this was the outcome. That's life, and as many have said, I still feel it was largely her fault for making so many bad decisions herself and putting him in that difficult situation.

[shakey]

Getting in their faces meaning talking back to them.

You tell me to backup what I say with facts and accuse me of being factual while all along I say I am voicing my opinion and looked around a little online. Then you provide NOTHING to backup your claims.

He was harassed when walking away because the cops told him to stop and he REFUSED to do so. Thats him not complying with a request from police and this acting SUSPICIOUS. And you are telling me I dont get it and you are talking to a wall? :rolleyes:

And the video was 10 minutes long and ANYONE could of missed something. Please show me where he was threatened to be shot (what time in the video) and I will look at it again. I looked at the last 1.30 minutes of the video where he was walking away and did not see anyone threatening to shoot him. Just a guy saying "dont hurt me" when its obvious the police didnt have that intention. He just wanted the guy to stop.

I never claim to be perfect so but apparently you are.

You don't have to stop when a cop says so, just because they are abusing the law. They had no valid reason to ask him to stop, so he has no reason to have to stop. He was on foot, asked for a document, and left the building. The only trouble being caused, was due to the intimidation and tactics used by the police. Again, look up civilians rights, and this might make this debate make some sense and stop going in circles.

Source? And what out of those 400 civilians were criminals threatening the police and what were innocents?

Don't know where he got those numbers either, but I do have this to add sort of to it...

"Actually, where the risk of death on the job is concerned, law enforcement doesn't crack the top ten list of most dangerous occupations, as designated by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. In fact, none of the jobs on that list involves people employed in the coercive sector. Commercial fishermen, loggers, commercial pilots, farmers, and roofers all face a higher risk of work-related death than that confronted by the State's armed enforcers, for whom "officer safety" is job one."

And I don't believe the real numbers of death/death ratio is something that Internal Affairs ever releases....

[Southern Patriot]

Yes, her actions started it. But her actions did not warrant a coma. It did not warrant being tazored. You need to realize that there is a scale of action vs reaction. If someone jumps out of a dumpster to scare me, and I shoot them in the face because I was startled, doesn't mean I did the right thing because they started it. Just because someone runs, does not mean they deserve to be abused, shot, tazored, or battered.

You are either trolling or you just really don't understand this point: the tazer is NOT what put this woman into a coma, her head hitting the ground did that. No matter HOW the officers tried to apprehend her, she still had a chance of the same thing happening. She was not abused, shot, or battered either. And when you decide to run from the police (especially after you are already in custody), they are well within their rights to do what is necessary to stop you.

[techbeck]

You don't have to stop when a cop says so, just because they are abusing the law. They had no valid reason to ask him to stop, so he has no reason to have to stop. He was on foot, asked for a document, and left the building. The only trouble being caused, was due to the intimidation and tactics used by the police. Again, look up civilians rights, and this might make this debate make some sense and stop going in circles.

I am not going to do your research for you or look up what you claim to be factual when you accused me of not providing facts when I was just voicing my opinion. You provide the links or else drop it.

And I am still waiting for what point in the video he was threatened to be shot. Not saying it didnt happen just I didnt see it and I am not watching the 10min video over again.

Oh, what the hell....

http://www.aclu.org/...stcardtext.html

IF YOU ARE STOPPED FOR QUESTIONING

Stay calm. Don't run. Don't argue, resist or obstruct the police, even if you are innocent or police are violating your rights. Keep your hands where police can see them.

- If you are not under arrest, you have the right to calmly leave.

In many of the cases in the video, he was not calm and arguing with police. And you dont have to be under arrest to asked to be stopped if the cops have probable cause or suspicion. Otherwise, why stop when speeding? I mean, you are not under arrest so surely you can calmly drive away....

[shakey]

I used to be married to a cop. I know the kind of **** they have to deal with on a daily basis, and every day he left I'd fear he wasn't going to come back to me--even with his body armour on. There are bad people out there, really bad. The number of bad, corrupt cops is very small compared to the good ones who are dealing with bad people. There are also plenty of cops who may have started out fresh and young and naive, like you seem to be, and got in a dangerous spot because of it. They learned the hard way, maybe are lucky to be alive, because they were too lenient with someone who was dangerous. They have to learn to do what needs to be done.

Let's play more "what if". What if he didn't stop her, and she had kept running, out into the street? What if you were the person driving along who had to swerve to avoid her, and run into another person, or off the road? What if you were hurt, or someone you hit died because of that? Or what if you couldn't get out of the way in time and you'd hit and killed her yourself? I suspect you'd still assume the cop was a bad, lazy guy who didn't try as hard to stop her as he could have, and you'd blame him nonetheless.

Police are human too, and they have a lot of training telling them what to do, ideally. They also have to make split-second decisions sometimes, decisions that can affect whether people live or die. They don't always make the perfect decision, nobody is always perfect. Good people can make the wrong decision when put on the spot. Plus, all the training in the world doesn't prepare you for some situations. He did what he could at the time, and unfortunately, this was the outcome. That's life, and as many have said, I still feel it was largely her fault for making so many bad decisions herself and putting him in that difficult situation.

The problem with cops, is they are in a dangerous job, and that they become jaded to it by what they encounter. They then start getting the idea that everyone is a danger to them, that everyone is a potential threat and problem. That is why they resort to such drastic measures. I've always said, cops shouldn't be on the job too long, and need a huge amount of vacation time to get away from it. I always thought that after about 2 years of service, and officer should get 6 months paid vacation at all once, to just get away from it all. That way they can sort of wear off some of that jaded views they get. Not every day is a dangerous day for them, and most cops normally don't have to pull out their guns but maybe once a year. That does differ depending on location though. But that still doesn't help them in the fact that after so long on the job, your views of the public change.

You honestly think that if this cop had chased the girl and at least tried to restrain her without a taser, in either a tackle, grab, or other form of 'not shooting a weapon', that it wouldn't be looked at then in the light that most of you are viewing it in? I know if he had done that, I would be like, "ya , she shouldn't have ran" , because then the cop would have shown to have put more effort and thought into his actions other than,' shes running, shoot the tazor. '

I think that is the heart of the issue, is the tazor. Too many police are using it as their easy way out gadget, instead of actually putting in effort.

You are either trolling or you just really don't understand this point: the tazer is NOT what put this woman into a coma, her head hitting the ground did that. No matter HOW the officers tried to apprehend her, she still had a chance of the same thing happening. She was not abused, shot, or battered either. And when you decide to run from the police (especially after you are already in custody), they are well within their rights to do what is necessary to stop you.

The tazor is the reason she hit her head....

And no, cops are not well within their rights to do what is necessary to stop you. You are grossly misinformed. The only time a cop can actually fire his weapon is when a police officer is in a direct threat to the lives of the innocent public or himself. Learn the law before you try and spout off what you think it is.

I am not going to do your research for you or look up what you claim to be factual when you accused me of not providing facts when I was just voicing my opinion. You provide the links or else drop it.

And I am still waiting for what point in the video he was threatened to be shot. Not saying it didnt happen just I didnt see it and I am not watching the 10min video over again.

Oh, what the hell....

http://www.aclu.org/...stcardtext.html

In many of the cases in the video, he was not calm and arguing with police.

It's around minute 6:45 I believe. you obviously didn't watch the whole thing. Good job.

[Charisma Veteran]

The problem with cops, is they are in a dangerous job, and that they become jaded to it by what they encounter. They then start getting the idea that everyone is a danger to them, that everyone is a potential threat and problem. That is why they resort to such drastic measures. I've always said, cops shouldn't be on the job too long, and need a huge amount of vacation time to get away from it. I always thought that after about 2 years of service, and officer should get 6 months paid vacation at all once, to just get away from it all. That way they can sort of wear off some of that jaded views they get. Not every day is a dangerous day for them, and most cops normally don't have to pull out their guns but maybe once a year. That does differ depending on location though. But that still doesn't help them in the fact that after so long on the job, your views of the public change.

You honestly think that if this cop had chased the girl and at least tried to restrain her without a taser, in either a tackle, grab, or other form of 'not shooting a weapon', that it wouldn't be looked at then in the light that most of you are viewing it in? I know if he had done that, I would be like, "ya , she shouldn't have ran" , because then the cop would have shown to have put more effort and thought into his actions other than,' shes running, shoot the tazor. '

I think that is the heart of the issue, is the tazor. Too many police are using it as their easy way out gadget, instead of actually putting in effort.

I think that if he'd tackled her to the ground, and she'd hit her head and ended up in this situation, people would be speculating that he should have tased (because the vast majority of the time it does less actual harm) or something instead of using such "brutal force" on her.

I can see where you are coming from in thinking that some people overuse and abuse it, maybe they do. Considering everything he knew about this woman, though, I don't think he was out of line to use it. Not in this situation.

As to the first part of your statement... Becoming jaded to those things is a survival mechanism. Have you ever watched Law & Order? I know it's a dramatised TV show, but in a few episodes I've seen them deal with the very real issues of cops who see these awful things day in and day out and how it affects them. If they let it get to them every time, if they are soft and emotional about everything instead of developing that thicker skin, they go crazy. Not everybody could do that job, not people like you or even me. You need to be tough, a little bit "jaded" as you put it, to even be able to think straight in some of the situations they get into, and let their training and practiced reactions take over instead of their own natural survival instincts--or sometimes, even a "normal" human reaction. They can't be stunned by things that stun us, they can't break down and cry when some of us would break down, they can't press "pause" and analyse the best course of action and all possible consequences. All they can do is the best they can do, as imperfect people in an imperfect world.

I agree they could use more vacation time than they get, though, just to keep their head on straight and not get completely out of touch with humanity. But some of that "shield" is needed.

[techbeck]

It's around minute 6:45 I believe. you obviously didn't watch the whole thing. Good job.

Yes, I did so stop assuming stuff. I stated I did but I guess you remember every single aspect of what you watch and read.

And I looked at the video again from 5.30 - 7. NOW WHERE was he said he was going to be shot. Only comment was the police telling the guy to take one more step towards him and see what happens. That does not mean he would be shot. At 6.45 in the video, the guy is talking to a black police officer. He is talking to this officer from 6.15 - 7.54.

So whatever dude, you cannot provide the correct time in the video where the police said he would shoot him...if it is even there. Now I am done. Good job. :)

[Rygrath]

<snip>

Wrong, wrong and wrong.

First, where in the video was the guy harassed? Where was the officer out of line and how was this against his rights? I saw most of those cops sit down and explain in detail what their department required in order to fill a complaint. When he didn't like what he heard, he got argumentative. Towards the end of the video, after failing to get the guy to understand their policies and tired of arguing with the man, they told him to leave. Another video he failed to comply with a officers order to show his identification which led to him being arrested. I saw officers doing their job.

Wrong about how to file a report too. A little searching shows that every district has their own ways of doing this. Some require you file a complaint with the Internal Affairs division. Others have you file a complaint to a third party. Another one has a web site you go to to print out a pdf file and mail it to the address provided via registered mail. Some allow you to go to the department and request a form.

http://mpdc.dc.gov/mpdc/cwp/view,a,1241,q,548649,mpdcNav_GID,1523,mpdcNav,%7C.asp#OCCR

http://bronxlawguide.com/criminal2.html

http://www.houstontx.gov/police/contact/iad.htm

How Do I Make a Complaint?

State law requires that complaints involving police officers be sworn under oath and notarized. For your convenience, a complaint form can be printed from the attached link titled ?Complaint Sworn Affidavit | Complaint Sworn Affidavit Spanish.? It does not require an appearance at headquarters or a substation. Complaints against members of the Houston Police Department may be initiated in person to a supervisor at any police substation throughout the City of Houston, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. They may also be made in person at the Internal Affairs/Central Intake Office, which is open Monday through Friday, 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. (except during City holidays). The Internal Affairs/Central Intake Office is located at Police Headquarters, 1200 Travis, Suite 2001, Houston, Texas, 77002. There is also the option of filling out the form, getting it notarized and then mailing it to the address above. Community organizations, including LULAC and the NAACP have the same form and staff that have been trained to assist with the filing of a complaint. For information on filing a complaint can be obtained by contacting the Central Intake Office at (713) 308-0040 or by contacting any police substation or supervisor.

No where in any of those does it say it's anonymous

About showing your ID, well he made a choice to be a douche

http://flexyourrights.org/faq/When_do_I_have_to_show_ID

From here, ID laws only get more complicated. In Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, the Supreme Court upheld state laws requiring citizens to disclose their identity to police when officers have reasonable suspicion to believe criminal activity may be taking place. Commonly known as "stop-and-identify" statutes, these laws permit police to arrest criminal suspects who refuse to identify themselves.

As of 2008, 24 states had stop-and-identify laws. Regardless of your state's law, keep in mind that police can never compel you to identify yourself without reasonable suspicion to believe you're involved in criminal activity.

But how can you tell if an officer asking you to identify yourself has reasonable suspicion? Remember, police need reasonable suspicion to detain you. One way to tell if they have reasonable suspicion is to determine if you're free to go. You could do this by saying "Excuse me officer. Are you detaining me, or am I free to go?" If the officer says you?re free to go, leave immediately and refrain from answering any additional questions.

If you're detained, you'll have to decide whether withholding your identity is worth the possibility of arrest or a prolonged detention. In cases of mistaken identity, revealing who you are might help to resolve the situation quickly. On the other hand, if you're on parole in California, for example, revealing your identity could lead to a legal search. Knowing your state's laws can help you make the best choice.

So, sure he didn't need to, but when he became argumentative and then failed to provide it, they then had reasonable suspicion to detain the man. Sorry to hear about your uncle, as I've said, we do not live in a perfect world. And probably never will, not saying any attempts to change it are folly, but you have to be realistic in your expectations. Many corrupted cops exist and many have been punished for it. On the same hand, I have known personally many officers and cops who were nothing but top class people treating everyone fairly. Any time I have been pulled over, or questioned, I treated the officer with respect and was treated the same.

On topic of this thread tho, I still fail to see any abuse of the officer that led to the coma of the girl. I saw a girl make one bad choice after another that caused a series of events that led to her final outcome. Sorry if you still don't see it that way.

[Rygrath]

<snip>

You honestly think that if this cop had chased the girl and at least tried to restrain her without a taser, in either a tackle, grab, or other form of 'not shooting a weapon', that it wouldn't be looked at then in the light that most of you are viewing it in? I know if he had done that, I would be like, "ya , she shouldn't have ran" , because then the cop would have shown to have put more effort and thought into his actions other than,' shes running, shoot the tazor. '

I think that is the heart of the issue, is the tazor. Too many police are using it as their easy way out gadget, instead of actually putting in effort.

The tazor is the reason she hit her head....

And no, cops are not well within their rights to do what is necessary to stop you. You are grossly misinformed. The only time a cop can actually fire his weapon is when a police officer is in a direct threat to the lives of the innocent public or himself. Learn the law before you try and spout off what you think it is.

Again, you are way misinformed

From the interview with the officer

http://www.baynews9....-handcuffs.html

Cole says he chose to tase Maudsley, instead of tackling her, because of his size.

"I know that I can?t just jump on her. I?m three times her weight. If we go down, one, or both of us, is going to get hurt. The taser is the intermediate weapon of choice," he says.

And in my first reply to this topic I gave several courses of actions that he could have done. All could have resulted in the same out come, but you have gracefully ignored them as you are ignoring others saying the same thing.

You're saying that if a 200+ pound man, weighed down further by his equipment, tackled a skinny fragile girl from behind at full speed, slammed her body into the ground, breaking a few bones, slamming her head into the concrete, ended up dead or in a coma, you'd be okay with that because "ya, she shouldn't have ran". You are seriously blasting the officer for choosing what he believed to be a SAFER method of stopping her not working out in the end? This would have shown he put more effort and thought into his actions? Apparently he did put thoughts into action, "I just can't jump on her, I'm three times her weight. If we go down, one or both of us, is going to get hurt". His action was the taser to just stop her from running, he couldn't forsee the outcome that happened.

Man, you do like to twist things up to meet your agendas.