Why didn't MS segregate the tablet UI from the desktop UI?

[Dot Matrix]

If you can't see movement in your peripheral vision then you should see a doctor as humans are much much much more sensitive to subtle movement in the peripheral vision than they are in the central focus of the eye.

I can see movement around me, yes, but when I am focusing on a task at hand (writing this comment), my focus is here. I can see quite a few things changing on my screens, but that gets ignored until I finish my task at hand. They're nothing more than a distraction until I'm done typing this up. It's the same for any other task that I do on the PC.

[TheLegendOfMart]

If something exists and works on a desktop or notebook PC, it is clearly not "a tablet UI." It may not be suited to a desktop or notebook PC, but it's all down to how people communicate their view. "A tablet UI" would be something that only exists on a tablet.

Oh dear lord, just because it 'works' on a PC doesn't mean its NOT a UI that was conceived entirely as a touch UI for phones and tablets.

I can use my hairdryer to dry my clothes, that doesnt now mean its a clothes dryer, it was conceived to be used as a hairdryer just because i adapted it to a different use it doesnt stop being a hair dryer.

Idiotic analogy I know.

[Vice]

Of course my argument isn't flawed and you just proved it yourself. You're not focussing on the TV show while you're replying to me because you can't. Watching something out of the corner of your eye is not the same as watching something and paying attention to it. As such, I'm sure you could live with the momentary distraction of the Start screen popping up, especially since the situation you described will happen extremely infrequently..

Great picture by the way :laugh:

I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't think I'm super man but I can certainly do multiple things at once. I don't need to look at my keyboard while I type I don't need to look at this reply box while I'm typing I am quite capable of looking and reading something else while typing this out to you as I am doing right now.

[stevember]

Windows 8 on my multiscreen is horrible. I do that to me being paralysed and find it very difficult to switch between keyboard and mouse I rely on the mouse most of the time.

Before anybody says anything I speak my text in.

[Calum Veteran]

So what you're saying is that almost every post of yours in this thread hasn't been "You're wrong." "You're wrong", and "You're wrong".?

Trying to tell people they're wrong for calling Metro a "tablet-UI" is ridiculous. To expand on that, as I explained before, Metro is a "Design Language" which is designed from the ground up to make things touch-friendly. It was designed originally to be implemented as a new way of experiencing touch devices, windows phone , upcoming tablets and the like. Telling people they're wrong for succinctly saying it is a "tablet-UI" is splitting hairs when they are in fact right in the spirit of what's being said, and you're simply trying to laud it over other people with some sanctimonious holier-than-thou attitude because you don't have much to say of any substance to peoples reasonable criticisms of the product.

It would be more beneficial to the discussion to come up with some objective reasoning to counter peoples objections rather than trying to split hairs over terminology for which your argument is weak at best.

I'd honestly expect more from staff of this site than what is clearly nothing more than flamebait and argumentative drivel for the most part.

The problem with people calling it "a tablet UI" is that it leads others, especially the average user, to believe it's a UI that should only exist on tablets. People should say what they mean, so those who are easily influenced don't assume before trying it out. Referring to it as "a tablet UI" could be dangerous for that and other reasons. There is no harm in people posting "this is a UI that only works best on tablets," but they don't post that. I might disagree with that opinion of theirs, and I might suggest they give it more of a chance to see if that opinion changes (it's been two weeks since the release of the Consumer Preview and there aren't really yet any apps that one can use to produce productive work :/) but I wouldn't tell them they're wrong for thinking that about the UI.

[Dot Matrix]

Oh dear lord, just because it 'works' on a PC doesn't mean its NOT a UI that was conceived entirely as a touch UI for phones and tablets.

Actually, Metro was conceived way before Windows Phone and Zune. How many in here used Media Center with a keyboard and mouse? Guess what, you have been using Metro's older brother!

[jakem1]

I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't think I'm super man but I can certainly do multiple things at once. I don't need to look at my keyboard while I type I don't need to look at this reply box while I'm typing I am quite capable of looking and reading something else while typing this out to you as I am doing right now.

No worries :)

[Vice]

Actually, Metro was conceived way before Windows Phone and Zune. How many in here used Media Center with a keyboard and mouse? Guess what, you have been using Metro's older brother!

I've been using Metro 0.1 since I was 5!

[TheLegendOfMart]

Actually, Metro was conceived way before Windows Phone and Zune. How many in here used Media Center with a keyboard and mouse? Guess what, you have been using Metro's older brother!

I have used it with a remote control in the past never a keyboard and mouse.

[Calum Veteran]

Sorry to say I'm just looking through posts and I think you come off as extremely sactimonious. Your support for MS and the Metro UI is so vociferous you should get a paycheck from them. Based on all the posts from you the UI is great and anyone who doesn't agree either "doesn't understand it" or "isn't using it correctly". You leave no room for other opinion - just yours.

I haven't even used the W8 CP and read threads like this for information and to gauge opinions - yours seem to strike me as so curiously one-sided I felt the need to post about it - I don't post much although I check the site about a dozen times a day.

I honestly would have expected a Global Mod to be a little more open minded. Just because you love it doesn't mean others can't have difficulty or find the W7 interface better. How about you try this? Aknowledge the opinions of others and maybe suggest things they could do instead of browbeating them?

Please ensure you understand my post before you reply.

(Yeah, that doesn't sound sactimonious at all does it?)

This is the problem. I post in support of Windows 8 and some of those who don't like Windows 8 believe that support is sanctimonious, just because it's a positive post about the product, or because I'm using terms Microsoft use to describe it :s It makes no sense. I'm defending the product because I love what Microsoft are doing, and if someone posts something about it I disagree with, I will post why I disagree with their opinion.

I always leave room for others' opinions, but there is nothing wrong with challenging an opinion; it's how discussions and debates thrive. When I suggest people give it more of a chance and open their minds more, I don't usually suggest their opinion is wrong; I suggest it might be wrong because other parts of their post have made it clear they do not understand the concept. Me telling someone their opinion might be wrong does not mean I'm "not leaving room" for their opinion.

I have no problem with people who merely don't like the concept, after taking the time to understand it, and I am sure there are some of those people on Neowin.

[ichi]

Disagree, I can put a pair of pants on my head it does not make them a hat.

Exactly :D

[Calum Veteran]

Oh dear lord, just because it 'works' on a PC doesn't mean its NOT a UI that was conceived entirely as a touch UI for phones and tablets.

I can use my hairdryer to dry my clothes, that doesnt now mean its a clothes dryer, it was conceived to be used as a hairdryer just because i adapted it to a different use it doesnt stop being a hair dryer.

Idiotic analogy I know.

If a UI is being used on a desktop, how is that a tablet UI? It's a desktop, not a tablet. The UI may work best on a tablet, but the user is using it on a desktop; that would be "a UI that works best on a tablet," not "a tablet UI".

[HoochieMamma]

I have used it with a remote control in the past never a keyboard and mouse.

Same, I use a remote on my Media Center a mouse/keyboard would be so unintuitive.

[Vice]

If a UI is being used on a desktop, how is that a tablet UI? It's a desktop, not a tablet. The UI may work best on a tablet, but the user is using it on a desktop; that would be "a UI that works best on a tablet," not "a tablet UI".

If trousers are being used as a hat, how are they leg wear? It's a head not a leg. The trousers may work best on legs but the user is using it on their head. that would be a "a pair of trousers that work best on the legs" not "trousers for legs".

[Calum Veteran]

Disagree, I can put a pair of pants on my head it does not make them a hat.

That isn't a relative analogy. They're still pants, but they're on your head. A hat is different to pants. A UI is not different to a UI.

[swanlee]

So does Android, but I don't see that turning it into less of a mobile/tablet UI.

It is also wrong because Metro has been used since the mid 2000's in the zune software interface and media center both of which are not touch interfaces. The first time metro was used with touch was in the last year ro so, before that it was used on standard programs.

[Calum Veteran]

If trousers are being used as a hat, how is that not a hat? It's a head not a leg. The trousers may work best on legs but the user is using it on their head. that would be a "a pair of trousers that work best on the legs" not "trousers for legs".

You've just backed up my point, unknowingly. Someone cannot refer to trousers as "trousers for legs" because they fit on other parts of the body, and they may be used on those other parts. Similarly, someone cannot refer to the Metro experience as "a tablet UI" because it is used on desktop and notebook PCs.

[Vice]

That isn't a relative analogy. They're still pants, but they're on your head. A hat is different to pants. A UI is not different to a UI.

Metro is still a Tablet UI, it just runs on a desktop substituting the finger for a mouse pointer and an on-screen keyboard for a physical one.

You've just backed up my point, unknowingly. Someone cannot refer to trousers as "trousers for legs" because they fit on other parts of the body, and they may be used on those other parts. Similarly, someone cannot refer to the Metro experience as "a tablet UI" because it is used on desktop and notebook PCs.

Dude I was being sarcastic.To take a note out of your own book, maybe you should understand my post before replying, like you keep telling us to do.

[Calum Veteran]

Metro is still a Tablet UI, it just runs on a desktop substituting the finger for a mouse pointer and an on-screen keyboard for a physical one.

So it's also a desktop UI then? It must be, if it's used on desktop PCs.

[Dot Matrix]

If trousers are being used as a hat, how are they leg wear? It's a head not a leg. The trousers may work best on legs but the user is using it on their head. that would be a "a pair of trousers that work best on the legs" not "trousers for legs".

Bad analogy. pants =/= hat. A UI is a UI, is a UI.

[Vice]

So it's also a desktop UI then? It must be, if it's used on desktop PCs.

I can run iOS on my Mac in the iOS Simulator with a mouse and keyboard. By your logic iOS is a desktop operating system too.

[Dot Matrix]

Metro is still a Tablet UI, it just runs on a desktop substituting the finger for a mouse pointer and an on-screen keyboard for a physical one.

No, no, no, and no. Metro is not a tablet UI. It was on the desktop before it was ever on a mobile device, dude. It's been in Media Center since 2004.

[Calum Veteran]

[. . .]

Dude I was being sarcastic.To take a note out of your own book, maybe you should understand my post before replying, like you keep telling us to do.

I know you were being sarcastic, which is why I said you unknowingly backed up my point. I used your sarcastic response to prove why I believe I am correct (in this case).

[ichi]

I can see movement around me, yes, but when I am focusing on a task at hand (writing this comment), my focus is here. I can see quite a few things changing on my screens, but that gets ignored until I finish my task at hand. They're nothing more than a distraction until I'm done typing this up. It's the same for any other task that I do on the PC.

So you don't care about what goes on while you are typing that. That's telling about how you use your computer, not about whether people can multitask with their computers or if being able to do so is important.

What for you is "nothing more that a distraction" for me could be a tail -f of some log or a running watch command where a single output change is relevant.

You know, I thought that the You Don't Need That? meme was exclusive to poking certain Linux users' answers on forums, but it seems to be alive and strong on the Windows camp as well.

[Calum Veteran]

I can run iOS on my Mac in the iOS Simulator with a mouse and keyboard. By your logic iOS is a desktop operating system too.

That isn't the same as running iOS natively on your Mac, and you know that. You're running it in a simulator. The Metro experience is not being run in any kind of simulator; it is being natively run on desktop and notebook PCs.