Why didn't MS segregate the tablet UI from the desktop UI?

[Dot Matrix]

Prove it. Show me where Metro as we know it today was used on desktop computers before Windows Phone showed up.

And actually use facts please.

Metro "as we know it today", wasn't around until last year, but Metro on desktops has been around since 2003/4.

[XX55XX]

I can't say that for sure until I've used it for a few months and until I've tried all of the tasks I usually do (including software developing) using it. So far, I've found it great and I haven't had any problems using it with a mouse and keyboard.

I wouldn't say you're wrong for saying that, though, as I am just mentioning my own experience :)

Swiping left and right is most ergonomic for a hand, not a scroll wheel.

Which is why Metro needs to bring back up and down scrolling for the desktop.

[swanlee]

It is nice for you to admit you were wrong. Thank you.

Your the one who threw in the "As we know today" crap I'm talking about the Metro UI and your trying to change what your saying to specify only the recent variations of metro, which are still being used on non touch devices like the Xbox 360.

[Vice]

The resemblance is uncanny! how could I have been so blind!

/sarcasm

I said post facts not screenshots of your opinion come to life.

[ichi]

It seems you an I have two different definitions of multitasking. Which is fine, but even as an IT student, I have yet to have a need to focus on a multiple windows at once.

Do you know GNU Screen? It an app developed to multiplex terminals, so you can have more than one session visible in a single terminal window.

Just the fact alone that such kind of utils are developed shows that the "you only ever need to focus on one thing a time" is false.

[Dot Matrix]

The resemblance is uncanny! how could I have been so blind!

/sarcasm

I said post facts not screenshots of your opinion come to life.

What's so different about them? I see two similar screens with similar functionality. Metro "as we know it today", wasn't around until last year, but Metro on desktops has been around since 2003/4.

[Woelfel]

It is nice for you to admit you were wrong. Thank you.

Actually, he's not wrong. Zune software and UI (Zune HD) has been using the Metro style for years. Metrotwit (my twitter application) is based off of Metro design. Windows Media Center uses it as well. Metro != Touch. If you believe that, you are wrong. Plain and simple. It's not an opinion or anything like you guys have been saying. It is a FACT. It's a design language, and you can use it as you want.

http://en.wikipedia....Design_Language <--- There are some things in there that you may want to read. The only time "touch" was mentioned was for iPod Touch.

EDIT: And you say "as we know it today"? Uhm...metro can look different for different uses. Just like MetroTwit doesn't look like Metro for ZuneHD's UI.

[swanlee]

Metro "as we know it today", wasn't around until last year, but Metro on desktops has been around since 2003/4.

Your wasting your time he attempted to trap his argument by say "As We Know Today" which is completely irrelevanet to what we were talking about. He knew he was wrong and then used "As we know today" as an out for himself to keep arguing.

[ichi]

Metro "as we know it today", wasn't around until last year, but Metro on desktops has been around since 2003/4.

Metro design on apps don't do window management. You might like the Metro style or not, but no one is complaining about the looks, they are complaining about the Metro implementation of the desktop environment, and that has nothing to do with Zune or WMC.

[Vice]

What's so different about them? I see two similar screens with similar functionality. Metro "as we know it today", wasn't around until last year, but Metro on desktops has been around since 2003/4.

MythTV should sue.

So should Boxee:

Big full screen UI's have existed for years.

[swanlee]

MythTV should sue.

So should Boxee:

Big full screen UI's have existed for years.

Still got nothing to do with the fact Metro has been around for years, Zune and WMC center aren't just similar to metro, MS actually calls them all metro design. It's there ui they developed it is also a design language what your seeing today is simply an evolution of metro that has been around for years.

[Calum Veteran]

It is like talking to a brick wall. I'm done.

I'm done, too. I'm disappointed you cannot understand what I'm saying.

[ichi]

Still got nothing to do with the fact Metro has been around for years, Zune and WMC center aren't just similar to metro, MS actually calls them all metro design. It's there ui they developed it is also a design language what your seeing today is simply an evolution of metro that has been around for years.

Again, the Window8 issue is not with Metro, it's with the implementation of the desktop environment. They could have used the Metro style to implement the desktop in a lot of different ways.

The Windows8 UI is not "The Metro UI", it's an implementation of the Windows UI using the Metro style.

[Vice]

I'm done, too. I'm disappointed you cannot understand what I'm saying.

I'm disappointed that you still think we don't understand what you're saying. You are totally oblivious to other peoples opinions. How you got GM I'll never know.

To put it another way, just because we don't agree with your opinions doesn't mean we don't understand them. You have the arrogant assertion that your opinion is right so if we don't agree we must just not understand what you're saying.

[PGHammer]

I keep seeing reference to desktop apps as legacy apps as if they are going somewhere. That is a little strange. Desktop apps are not legacy apps. In fact they are far superior in functionality and looks when compared to Metro Apps and they are not going anywhere... unless something revolutionary comes up in metro which I don't see happen very soon. Metro was only created keeping touch in perspective... remove that aspect and the whole metro experience looks legacy to me... :p

Don't expect apps like Photoshop or excel or games of this generation with that much amount of functionality to show up for metro, possibly ever...

And one thing the detractors have over looked is that Win32 applications, games, etc. work at least as well on the Windows 8 Consumer Preview as they did on Windows 7 - if not better - on the same hardware.

Why are desktop applications functionally superior? That's easy enough to answer - they have been in development use for years, if not decades, their APIs are documented and known. Windows 8 didn't ignore Win32. Win32 is supported *everywhere except WOA*. While the UI is radically different, the APIs are not. Windows is NOT Linux (where the desktop environment, APIs, and UI are largely the same thing).

That backward compatibility is, in fact, the biggest advantage of Windows 8 (again, everywhere except WOA) - not just the same UI, but the same applications (including all the Win32 applications/games/etc. from as far back as XP). Can you run OS X-native productivity applications on an iPad? Can you run Linux applications *as is* on Android? How much backward compatibility is there between ICS and Froyo? Or even between ICS and Gingerbread?

Windows 8 is not *just* about Metro - or even just about WinRT, let alone just about touch, tablets, and slates. If you think that, you are (nearly literally) missing the forest for the trees.

[+DKAngel Subscriber²]

i for one am very much liking windows 8 =]

[Calum Veteran]

I'm disappointed that you still think we don't understand what you're saying. You are totally oblivious to other peoples opinions. How you got GM I'll never know.

To put it another way, just because we don't agree with your opinions doesn't mean we don't understand them. You have the arrogant assertion that your opinion is right so if we don't agree we must just not understand what you're saying.

You stated I believe something is not a tablet UI if it works with a keyboard and mouse. I haven't ever stated or suggested that. That proves you didn't understand what I was saying. It's hilarious that you're trying to deny that, considering the posts are here. It's a shame because decent people admit when they're wrong. In this case, I believe I am right, so I am refuting what everyone replies to me. If someone replies to me with a rebuttal that cannot be refuted, that'd be great; however, no one has.

Ahh well. As I said, I'm done here because I have things to get on with, and you either aren't understanding my posts or you're intentionally being awkward.

Well done for trying to insult me, by the way, by wondering why I was asked to become a Global Moderator. Very classy (Y) Perhaps you should instead be wondering why you haven't ever been asked (I'm not suggesting you'd want to be a moderator, I'm just pointing that out, considering you attempted to insult me so).

Bye :)

[Vice]

Well done for trying to insult me, by the way, by wondering why I was asked to become a Global Moderator. Very classy (Y) Perhaps you should be wondering why you haven't ever been asked.

Bye :)

If I had to think everyone on Neowin was stupid to get the job I'd not want the position. Cya. :)

[jakem1]

The resemblance is uncanny! how could I have been so blind!

/sarcasm

I said post facts not screenshots of your opinion come to life.

That's not a screenshot of Metro, it's a screenshot of the Windows 8 Start screen. There are elements of Metro design in both the Start screen and the WMC screenshots that Dot Matrix posted. As mentioned previously the Zune client is another example of an app that uses Metro design.

[HawkMan]

No it is configured perfectly. It merely is a power monster as I said originally. I have a lot of hardware in it and three 250 Watt TDP graphics cards that even at idle each consume around 40 watts each. Combined with my CPU which is highly overclocked but still manages around 30 watts at idle, my motherboard has separate NF200 chips which each consume around 8 watts idle bringing the total system board power to around 30 watts at idle.and the inefficiencies present in the power supply leaves my system drawing just over 200 watts from the wall when idle.

I really find it shocking on Neowin how some people like you feel themselves the experts on other peoples computers and setups when you don't even know anything about them. You claim my computer doesn't consume 200 watts at idle without even knowing the components I use. What a joke.

Sorry, but properly setup and configured in bios and windows that computer shouldn't need touse 200 watts at idle.

In any case, assuming your commuter hardware is missing the usual power saving features of modern hardware, you completely ignored my point about sleep mode anyway.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

Metro is just MS's centralized UI design and it just happens to work well ont ouch devices.

Metro style apps are designed to be touch-first. That's a fact.

[Vice]

Sorry, but properly setup and configured in bios and windows that computer shouldn't need touse 200 watts at idle.

In any case, assuming your commuter hardware is missing the usual power saving features of modern hardware, you completely ignored my point about sleep mode anyway.

My motherboard has a bug where when it enters S1 or S3 power states it locks up and needs to be hard reset. This is a known issue with the motherboard that Asus has not fixed in over 10 Bios updates. They will not RMA the board for it because there is no board they can replace it with that would work. This is not too uncommon in high end self builds where the bleeding edge components have bugs.

Trust me everything in my system is configured properly the power consumption is so high due to the hardware I use. If I had a 6970 or a 7970 or a Core i7 1155 system (I'm using first generation x58 hardware from 2009) I would not have such high power use. No offence to you buy I know my computer pretty damn well right down to every chip on my motherboard. The whole system is water cooled by me, I fitted my own blocks to all my components and built my own loop I braided my own power supply cables. Please don't try to tell me what my computer should be consuming. I wonder do you even know what an NF200 chip is or does? Just a random question.

[HawkMan]

Again, the Window8 issue is not with Metro, it's with the implementation of the desktop environment. They could have used the Metro style to implement the desktop in a lot of different ways.

The Windows8 UI is not "The Metro UI", it's an implementation of the Windows UI using the Metro style.

But you can still use windows 8 as standard desktop OS and use the start screen as just a start menu, arguably a better one.

Metro style apps are designed to be touch-first. That's a fact.

Except for the fact it's not and metro is older than touch, i.e. WMC

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

Except for the fact it's not

I'm quoting Microsoft here:

Metro style apps are designed to be [...] touch-first

[XX55XX]

For fast app switching, Microsoft should use the Windows key press to cycle through every application open by default.

Applications need a big X near the top to be closed.

And shutting down needs to be more obvious. Option in the top right corner should do the trick.

And of course, up and down scrolling is needed.