Microsoft betrays the trust of customers and partners in the name of progre

[+LogicalApex MVC]

I hope you weren't saying I am a fanboy... I have never owned a Windows Phone, ever. I'm not tied to any Microsoft Product at all. I just think people are complaining for the sake of bashing Microsoft.

As Humanz says, your Lumia 900 still has all the features it was advertised with AND it is getting an upgrade to 7.8 AND who's to say it won't get more updates after that? It just won't get 8.

People no longer buy smartphones for its features alone. They are buying an ecosystem. Microsoft is killing the Windows Phone 7 ecosystem just like they killed the Windows Mobile one before it. They are now focused squarely on the Windows Phone 8 ecosystem. This is a strong slap in the face to consumers who purchased into the ecosystem...

The Lumia 900 will continue to work as a device just fine and as advertised, but your ecosystem just got trashed. How can a user honestly trust MS going forward here?

[funkydude]

People no longer buy smartphones for its features alone. They are buying an ecosystem.

LOL, simply, no.

Replace "people" with "techies" and you're correct. Let's not mix up the 1% of smartphone buyers with the 99% shall we.

[remixedcat]

and as all the hype about ICS and people being excited about it, my LG Optimus S was just getting GB. I hate the fragmentation.

I just wish that the mrfs. didn't HAAAAVVVEE to have thier own skins and stuff to differentiate themselves when most users don't care.

They sacrificed a lot to do that. More people care about being up-to-date then they care about some skins.

[+KibosJ Subscriber²]

People no longer buy smartphones for its features alone. They are buying an ecosystem. Microsoft is killing the Windows Phone 7 ecosystem just like they killed the Windows Mobile one before it. They are now focused squarely on the Windows Phone 8 ecosystem. This is a strong slap in the face to consumers who purchased into the ecosystem...

The Lumia 900 will continue to work as a device just fine and as advertised, but your ecosystem just got trashed. How can a user honestly trust MS going forward here?

Yeah, sorry. After reading your posts I can see why you are ****ed, my apologies.

I'm done with Android and it looks like I will wait to see how Windows 8 turns out and just HOPE they don't do this again.

Maybe my next phone will be an iPhone, at least they get timely updates :)

[neo158]

People no longer buy smartphones for its features alone. They are buying an ecosystem. Microsoft is killing the Windows Phone 7 ecosystem just like they killed the Windows Mobile one before it. They are now focused squarely on the Windows Phone 8 ecosystem. This is a strong slap in the face to consumers who purchased into the ecosystem...

The Lumia 900 will continue to work as a device just fine and as advertised, but your ecosystem just got trashed. How can a user honestly trust MS going forward here?

Except they aren't "killing off the Windows Phone 7 ecosystem". If you'd watched the keynote, I seriously doubt you have though, you'd know that WP7.5 apps will run on WP8. This means that unless developers are using specific features of WP8 they can just target WP7.5 instead.

[George P Global Moderator]

*sigh* No, people aren't complaining about a version number difference. People are complaining because there are two separate OSs. The only thing that is the same between 7.8 and 8 is centered around the Start Screen looking the same.

Developers can't use the same application on both unless they target their app to the lowest common denominator (7.8) and rely on a compatibility layer to get it running on 8. They can't build an application the takes advantage of the features of both 8 and Mango devices without building two separate applications.

Mango device users will have a race against the clock here. If WP8 proves to get any interest from developers they'll face a continually shrinking app store. This hurts them as well.

Why is it so hard to see that this was an extremely bad choice?

This really makes me not want to recommend anyone I know to pick up a Windows Phone device. Microsoft can't keep rebooting this platform and expecting it to survive.

And with all the talk about taking advantage of newer hardware what would stop developers from targeting the new devices with more resources and require things like 1GB of RAM or NFC to work etc? Wouldn't that also just leave older phones out in the cold even if they did get WP8? You keep bringing up the developer issue yet I still see the same issue being there even if we did get WP8. It might have happened slower but it still would have happened regardless.

[Stoffel]

It was about time MS showed the OEM's how it's done.

Most of us will agree that Apple has always had really nice looking gadgets.

I don't really like the whole Apple eco system, but I've always wanted something similar but with equally good looking devices.

Most OEM's don't come even close to the build quality of Apple. Add to that all the bloatware they install on your new devices and you always feel like you got a mediocre experience.

This time around, MS is actually really proud of what they've done with Win8 and they want to make sure people will get a great experience. Not let the OEM's ruin it all again and blame MS for the mess.

I say good on you MS for standing up for your product.

It's sad that they didn't manage to get the current WP handsets to get at least the new app platform so they could use the newer apps, but I can understand why they did it. Hopefully they give the 7.5 users more then just the start screen update. But we don't know for sure until they disclose more of the consumer features.

All in all i'm pretty impressed with what MS is doing right now.

And haters will be haters, just ignore them

[efjay]

I. AM. BETRAYED!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

[+LogicalApex MVC]

And with all the talk about taking advantage of newer hardware what would stop developers from targeting the new devices with more resources and require things like 1GB of RAM or NFC to work etc? Wouldn't that also just leave older phones out in the cold even if they did get WP8? You keep bringing up the developer issue yet I still see the same issue being there even if we did get WP8. It might have happened slower but it still would have happened regardless.

Because, Windows Phone 8 developers will also want to use as little resources as possible. Low end Windows Phone 8 devices will exist as Nokia needs something to sell in China. You can expect to see Single Core 512MB devices very soon after launch, if not at launch.

Use case specific features, like NFC won't be incorporated into the majority of applications.

Basically, the majority of apps would work just fine on both. Edge case applications would need to work on Windows Phone 8 only, but by requiring the developer to build two separate versions Microsoft has killed the interest of the developer from targeting existing devices, even if it would simply be a compilation difference!

[thealexweb]

And I suppose android phone manufacturers are any better?

What this article neglects to mention is that Windows Phone 8 phones have an 18 month OTA upgrade promise.

This is just more people wanting to hate on Microsoft.

My HTC Android came out in 2010 and I'm still getting major updates ;)

[Vice]

[Stoffel]

That was just plain funny :)

[paulheu]

I am wondering what Windows phone 8 will take away from current devices? Actually nothing. By the time WP8 unique apps will actually result in WP7.x devices getting 'left behind' we're going to be around this time next year at least.

And then it is still going to be the developers who make the stupid mistake of not supporting the vast WP 7.x community. And that while their WP7.x app will be recompiled automatically without cost or any work on his/her end in the cloud by MS..

[Noir Angel]

And this debate is just proof of the pudding and a great example of why the Android haters were wrong and didn't think things through. Windows Phone was meant to be the be all solution to end phone fragmentation but then we discover that like Android and iOS all WP devices won't keep receiving updates for technical reasons? well what a shocker. And the excuses being used to defend Microsoft here were also used to attack Google. "Oh the G1 should still run Android 4.0 it's Google's fault for making Android too fat"... blah blah

It's the price of innovation. Stop pretending to yourselves that Microsoft aren't paying the same price as everyone else because this topic just proves the point that it's the same for everyone.

[CentralDogma]

If you think Lumia owners are being betrayed then that's on you, but I don't think it's that clear cut. Nokia has done lots with it's exclusive apps and games that have been released or are coming soon to the Lumia, something other WP7.x OEMs don't seem to care about at all. As for not getting WP8, I think there's a perfectly reasonible technical limitation that stopped this from happening. That is, from everything I've been able to read, the lack of DirectX 11 GPU support on current WP7.5 hardware. DirectX 11 and it's driver model are core to WP8 and even Windows itself. How can you expect the OS to run when the hardware has zero support for DirectX? And don't bring up Direct3D mobile, because it's not the same.

While 7.8 doesn't bring the whole list with it, I think it will have enough to keep current owners happy till they can get a new WP8 device. Also, and everyones so quick to just gloss over this. What would developers do even if we could get WP8 on our devices? As we've already seen with Tango and 256MB phones there are a number of apps that won't run on them even though the OS is exactly the same between 256MB and 512MB phones. So then what guarantees do users have that developers won't just code for the newer dual core and 1GB RAM phones for their games/apps and just leave out older phones because they don't meet the "minimum specs"? I'd say nothing does.

I won?t try to argue the author?s point on Microsoft?s handling of OEM?s because I think Microsoft made the right move with Surface. But I agree with him on Windows Phone 8.

I think you are underestimating the new core in Windows Phone 8. You lose binary compatibility with WP7, but you?re still able to run WP7 apps because they run in a software environment. In the Windows NT kernel, you?re getting new file system, drivers, network stack, security components, media and graphics support. To reduce such an update to ?a new start screen? you?re really only seeing the tip of the iceberg.

Windows Phone 7 may not have been a spectacular success, but it does have an install base. More importantly, a considerable portion of this install base was gained with the release of Nokia?s Lumia line, which was release late in the lifecycle of WP7. And due to the nature of cell phone contracts, these people are going to have these phones for 2 years.

And Microsoft has a history of this behavior, of promoting a technology like it?s the best thing since slice bread, until it?s next technology come out and cuts the legs out from underneath it. .Net is great up until WinRT. The treatment Silverlight received(Microsoft?s E3 press conference was streamed using Flash). Or the Zune. And let?s not forget Windows Mobile 6 was done away with in a similar fashion to make way for Windows Phone 7. I can understand that because of the major shift in the mobile market, but this is the second time their doing it to the same product in less than 3 years. They don?t seem to understand that you have to stagger these transitions.

Ideally, the switch to an NT kernel should have happened from the move from Windows Mobile 6 to Windows Phone 7. If we?re accepting that the hardware was not there and that you need those DirectX capable GPUs, then they should have held off on the transition: WP 8 stays on the CE kernel(give WP7s a partial upgrade that maintains binary compatibility), but WP8 devices are required to have DirectX GPUs; WP9 has the NT kernel (requires the Direct X GPU) and provides and upgrade path for WP8 devices.

[sanctified Veteran]

LOL, simply, no.

I somewhat tend to disagree. At least that's what I see in most iPhone users. I think (keyword here is "think" as in opinion) that Apple has done a better job promoting the apps available for its smartphone, common people identify certain apps with it. So yeah, at least them are buying into an ecosystem.

[paulheu]

The only thing that is the same between 7.8 and 8 is centered around the Start Screen looking the same..

Source? Where is Microsoft announcing that WP7.8 is just the startscreen?

What was said during a developer summit keynote about SOME of the new stuff in WP8 is:

WP8 can't run on current hardware

Current devices will get an update to WP7.8 which will include the WP8 startscreen

No further announcements or information was given as this was completely irrelevant to the subject of the keynote which was informing developers of some of the new features in WP8

[sanctified Veteran]

Except they aren't "killing off the Windows Phone 7 ecosystem".

In the tech world crippling means killing. Yeah, WP8 will allow WP7.5 apps to run but developers will have no incentive to keep releasing updates for such apps for WP7.5, at least not for long.

WP7.5 ecosystem is doomed.

I don't really like the whole Apple eco system, but I've always wanted something similar but with equally good looking devices.

So you don't like it, but you want it? :/

[Noir Angel]

In the tech world crippling means killing. Yeah, WP8 will allow WP7.5 apps to run but developers will have no incentive to keep releasing updates for such apps for WP7.5, at least not for long.

WP7.5 ecosystem is doomed.

Precisely this. When updates to Android and iOS are released, generally they don't start with a completely new API that will stop new applications working on older devices. If anything this will be even worse than Android and iOS fragmentation as eventually WP 7.x devices will be little more than expensive paperweights.

[Anibal P]

It's a TechCrunch "article" you are guaranteed to get negative comments about MS while doing all they can to kiss up to Apple, their bias has been known for years now, and why no one gets their real or serious news from them

[MajorWinters]

WP7 will have the biggest amount of potential customers, so that's the platform developers will likely target (when possible) for quite some time.

[George P Global Moderator]

I won?t try to argue the author?s point on Microsoft?s handling of OEM?s because I think Microsoft made the right move with Surface. But I agree with him on Windows Phone 8.

I think you are underestimating the new core in Windows Phone 8. You lose binary compatibility with WP7, but you?re still able to run WP7 apps because they run in a software environment. In the Windows NT kernel, you?re getting new file system, drivers, network stack, security components, media and graphics support. To reduce such an update to ?a new start screen? you?re really only seeing the tip of the iceberg.

Windows Phone 7 may not have been a spectacular success, but it does have an install base. More importantly, a considerable portion of this install base was gained with the release of Nokia?s Lumia line, which was release late in the lifecycle of WP7. And due to the nature of cell phone contracts, these people are going to have these phones for 2 years.

And Microsoft has a history of this behavior, of promoting a technology like it?s the best thing since slice bread, until it?s next technology come out and cuts the legs out from underneath it. .Net is great up until WinRT. The treatment Silverlight received(Microsoft?s E3 press conference was streamed using Flash). Or the Zune. And let?s not forget Windows Mobile 6 was done away with in a similar fashion to make way for Windows Phone 7. I can understand that because of the major shift in the mobile market, but this is the second time their doing it to the same product in less than 3 years. They don?t seem to understand that you have to stagger these transitions.

Ideally, the switch to an NT kernel should have happened from the move from Windows Mobile 6 to Windows Phone 7. If we?re accepting that the hardware was not there and that you need those DirectX capable GPUs, then they should have held off on the transition: WP 8 stays on the CE kernel(give WP7s a partial upgrade that maintains binary compatibility), but WP8 devices are required to have DirectX GPUs; WP9 has the NT kernel (requires the Direct X GPU) and provides and upgrade path for WP8 devices.

What you're asking for would have been nice but it couldn't happen at the time and MS couldn't wait another year for NT to support ARM. Besides, what difference does it make if they had held off on the core change till WP9? Then we'd have this same argument about WP8 devices not being able to upgrade to WP9. We'd be right were we are today. I'm not saying it doesn't suck, it does but I can understand that there are valid technical reasons why it's not happening. If the cut was done just for the heck of it then this would be an outrage for sure, that just doesn't seem to be the case.

The history thing isn't really on base either, the Zune was around for quite some time, MS dropped the hardware because it never went anywhere with it, the service has and is still around, it still works and will still work going forward even with it's new branding. It's not much of a drop at all like you make it sound. .NET? THere's a new .NET version in Windows 8, v4.5. It's still going, it's not dead last I saw and really many parts of .NET are in WinRT as well, devs aren't left out in the cold when moving over from one to the other.

Windows Mobile 6.x shouldn't even be brought into this, it got it's share of updates, it was going nowhere but to the bottom of the market and developers had started to jump ship to iOS and then Android. Why keep that OS going when developers stopped supporting it on their own?

[George P Global Moderator]

Because, Windows Phone 8 developers will also want to use as little resources as possible. Low end Windows Phone 8 devices will exist as Nokia needs something to sell in China. You can expect to see Single Core 512MB devices very soon after launch, if not at launch.

Use case specific features, like NFC won't be incorporated into the majority of applications.

Basically, the majority of apps would work just fine on both. Edge case applications would need to work on Windows Phone 8 only, but by requiring the developer to build two separate versions Microsoft has killed the interest of the developer from targeting existing devices, even if it would simply be a compilation difference!

You're reaching here, how do you know that it killed developer interests? Current WP7.x developers who've made apps and are working on apps now will still support it while they take a dive into WP8 specifics. In the end, you bring up the same thing I'm saying, they'll start to take advantage of WP8 bits that work on the new hardware but don't on current hardware. Like the new security and the new DirectX support and whatever else they need. When that happens and it will happen then you'll see those "edge case" apps start to grow more. What good would a brand new fancy game be when I'll have to target 2 year old Adreno 2xx hardware that doesn't let me do what I wnat to do? What then? Should I make two versions of my game? One for the old hardware with WP8 and one with the new hardware and WP8? If so then what is the difference between doing the same for WP7.8 and WP8 anyways? I don't see one.

[123456789A]

Can't be too mad at Microsoft for moving ahead. When Apple dropped classic Mac OS and later PowerPC, some people were angry but in the end it was the right move. I know it's a bit different because technically Apple did support their users for a while longer (WP users are only getting the 7.8 update), but the bottom line is I'd rather have a next generation MS smartphone instead of technology that's anchored down by the limits WinCE.

[Tom]

Not this **** again...