Microsoft betrays the trust of customers and partners in the name of progre

[Argi]

"Microsoft betrays the trust of customers and partners in the name of progress"

A hyperbole if there ever was one.

[the better twin]

This dude is moron.

Lol

[deepfunkysoul]

Be happy you're not on Windows Mobile 6.5, their app store got pulled, gotta love the commitment from MS there.

FYI

Windows mobile didn't need a store to load apps. Most apps could be downloaded off any developers site and just installed unlike windows phone7. The fact is Microsoft knew that win ce had its limitation and despite all the tweaking and updating it could only go so far. Why spend money on continuing to update a product that has seen its peak. It could of being done... but it would have been a bad decision business wise. Especially; when you already have a product that is far superior then any system in the market. Plus it is already established and far more robust and scalable. Yes the Win NT kernel is no push over in fact if Microsoft has any chance of competing in the smart phone and tablet market its a must. Sure my lumia 710 or any win phone 7 device will not be upgraded to winphone 8. The fact is I'm extremely happy with what it already offers me which is why I purchased it. I'll be happy with the 7.8 update till its my turn to get my windows phone 8 device.

You can't please everyone, but I think Microsoft has made the right decision. Window phone 8 based on the Win Nt kernel will make apple and google very nervous and rightly so. The possibilities are endless as we saw a bit of that during the developers conference. I for one am very excited by Microsoft's move and look forward to both my new Surface and Windows Phone 8.

:D

[xeleraph]

LOL, simply, no.

Replace "people" with "techies" and you're correct. Let's not mix up the 1% of smartphone buyers with the 99% shall we.

So no one buys the iPhone because it has a ton of apps? People aren't avoiding Windows Phone because it doesn't have the apps they want?

[Keyboard Cowboy]

WELL let me just say I can not wait till six months after WP8 and Windows 8 are released and all this complaining can come to an end finally... I honestly can't believe were not living the movie Waterworld right now because of all the tears that have been shed over those two topics...

[+LogicalApex MVC]

You're reaching here, how do you know that it killed developer interests? Current WP7.x developers who've made apps and are working on apps now will still support it while they take a dive into WP8 specifics. In the end, you bring up the same thing I'm saying, they'll start to take advantage of WP8 bits that work on the new hardware but don't on current hardware. Like the new security and the new DirectX support and whatever else they need. When that happens and it will happen then you'll see those "edge case" apps start to grow more. What good would a brand new fancy game be when I'll have to target 2 year old Adreno 2xx hardware that doesn't let me do what I wnat to do? What then? Should I make two versions of my game? One for the old hardware with WP8 and one with the new hardware and WP8? If so then what is the difference between doing the same for WP7.8 and WP8 anyways? I don't see one.

MS is betting that WP8 will bring in largely the Windows developer crowd that has been sitting on the sidelines. Hence, they pushed hard on the code reuse between WP8 and Windows 8. So, Microsoft is hoping that the interest will not exist for WP7.x otherwise there wouldn't be any code reuse to speak of largely.

I'm not sure how you can argue that maintaining two separate code bases is a good thing. Are you a developer? The DRY (Don't Repeat Yourself) principal alone makes many developers balk at maintaining more than one code base...

As I have said countless times, it is a far cleaner solution to dynamically disable code compared to maintaining two separate projects with their own duplicated code structures.

[the better twin]

MS is betting that WP8 will bring in largely the Windows developer crowd that has been sitting on the sidelines. Hence, they pushed hard on the code reuse between WP8 and Windows 8. So, Microsoft is hoping that the interest will not exist for WP7.x otherwise there wouldn't be any code reuse to speak of largely.

I'm not sure how you can argue that maintaining two separate code bases is a good thing. Are you a developer? The DRY (Don't Repeat Yourself) principal alone makes many developers balk at maintaining more than one code base...

As I have said countless times, it is a far cleaner solution to dynamically disable code compared to maintaining two separate projects with their own duplicated code structures.

Exactly the people still defending Ms saying its no different to iOS or android astound me. Developers will target Windows 8 and Wp8 because of the shared core, the much greater reach and the wider code base support. There is little to no incentive to support wp7.8 as many point out the user base is very small. People who are locked in to two year contracts with their lumias have every right to be p###ed. They've essentially been dumped.

[George P Global Moderator]

MS is betting that WP8 will bring in largely the Windows developer crowd that has been sitting on the sidelines. Hence, they pushed hard on the code reuse between WP8 and Windows 8. So, Microsoft is hoping that the interest will not exist for WP7.x otherwise there wouldn't be any code reuse to speak of largely.

I'm not sure how you can argue that maintaining two separate code bases is a good thing. Are you a developer? The DRY (Don't Repeat Yourself) principal alone makes many developers balk at maintaining more than one code base...

As I have said countless times, it is a far cleaner solution to dynamically disable code compared to maintaining two separate projects with their own duplicated code structures.

I'd counter with MS wanting WP7.x developers to also make Windows 8 apps to. Why do you limit it to one way only when metro and WinRT is more of a mobile platform so it's attracting the developers already in that area I'd say. I'm not saying maintaining two code bases is a good thing, I don't know where you got that idea from. My point is that even if older phones got upgraded to WP8 the difference in the hardware, security, graphics and so on would force a developer to either just target the new hardware or code for both. Unless you just code for the older hardware and don't take advantage of the new hardware, in which case your whole developer argument is moot.

I gave you a example, and I think it's more than accurate yet you skipped it. If developer has a game or some other new application do they just target the old hardware, and forget about the new stuff (just code for 7.x and let WP8 compatibility take care of the rest) or do they make two versions of the app to cover everyone? Or do they only target the new hardware specifically and forget the older devices? Just because you'd have most of WP8 on the older hardware I think you'll still run into this issue for now. What should a game developer do in this case?

I'm saying that the hardware differences alone are enough to either force a developer to do one of three things, even if we all had WP8. 1.) Target the older hardware and just support everything yet lose out on taking advantage of any new hardware specific stuff. 2.) Target the new hardware and forget about the older devices, in which case even if your WP7 phone did get WP8 you'd still be SOL. Or 3, make two versions of your app/game for the two different hardware platforms, in which case it'd be the same as if the older phones never got WP8 in the end.

[oceanmotion]

It just seems rather short sighted or deceptive from Microsoft with NT being their target all along. What was the point in WP7 if they were going to dump it for the NT kernal in WP8. It stinks of beta test but consumers are paying for the priveledge. I've got no problem with technologiy moving forward but this has been too quick a rug pull and that also shows they have had the NT on Windows Phone project in planning for a while so they knew fine well what they were doing with WP7 and it's userbase a long time ago.

What Microsoft should have done is plan for WP8 all along as the Windows Mobile successor, not WP7.

[CentralDogma]

What you're asking for would have been nice but it couldn't happen at the time and MS couldn't wait another year for NT to support ARM. Besides, what difference does it make if they had held off on the core change till WP9? Then we'd have this same argument about WP8 devices not being able to upgrade to WP9. We'd be right were we are today. I'm not saying it doesn't suck, it does but I can understand that there are valid technical reasons why it's not happening. If the cut was done just for the heck of it then this would be an outrage for sure, that just doesn't seem to be the case.

No, if they did what I describe(put hardware in the CE based WP8 generation to support an NT based WP9), all devices would get a longer update cycle.

The history thing isn't really on base either, the Zune was around for quite some time, MS dropped the hardware because it never went anywhere with it, the service has and is still around, it still works and will still work going forward even with it's new branding. It's not much of a drop at all like you make it sound. .NET? THere's a new .NET version in Windows 8, v4.5. It's still going, it's not dead last I saw and really many parts of .NET are in WinRT as well, devs aren't left out in the cold when moving over from one to the other.

I?m not going to get into the specifics of the .Net thing, suffice it to say, WinRT is at best a duplication of .Net functionality and at worst a replacement.

Windows Mobile 6.x shouldn't even be brought into this, it got it's share of updates, it was going nowhere but to the bottom of the market and developers had started to jump ship to iOS and then Android. Why keep that OS going when developers stopped supporting it on their own?

That?s my point. Windows Mobile 6 was abandoned for good reason, because the market had dramatically changed since it?s introduction.

But, I don?t think the same can be said of Windows Phone 7. This was supposed to be big mobile revamp. But within 3 year, to entirely gut and replace the kernel, I don?t think it right of them to obsolete it so soon with a growing userbase.

And that?s not even touching on the ramifications for Nokia as a business. They?re going to be stuck selling phones with a bleak future for 6 month, assuming the best case scenario of them getting hardware out day one and no delays in development. They may be able to coast by on uninformed consumers who don?t know about WP8, but their sales are going to take a hit. If Nokia fails? if Nokia isn?t out there being the premier maker of Windows Phones, I think Microsoft is going to have a very hard time making any headway in the mobile phone market.

[a.mcdear]

Anybody who picked up a brand new WP7 should have already known it had at most a year of life in it... I mean, they are single core devices with half the amount of RAM of most high end Android phones. If they really feel betrayed, then they apparently did not really know what they were buying.

[BillyJack]

The company needs to support those true believers, not betray them with obsolete software. And when it comes to OEMs, Microsoft shouldn?t forget that it also needs to support those same companies that it?s now abruptly competing against.

I think that is BS. The software is not obsolete. Microsoft supports their software for ten years or something like that. They were still supporting XP even though two generations later they had Windows 7. Plus so far it has all been backward compatible and they support 32 bit software still. So Windows 8, the latest software on PC and tablets, will support 32/64 bit apps, desktop apps, and the phone will support Windows 7 apps is an obsolete OS. In comparison, when the latest iOS came out the old devices no longer upgrade and Android is the same. So how much more magic do you expect Microsoft to pull off. Windows 8 on the phone will support the old apps, upscale them automatically if the new phone resolution is greater, and more. They are hooking up the user and developer.

I don't think they need to be concerned with hardware manufacturers. Either they make hardware and make money or pack up and leave. The PC industry is huge and there is a lot of money. They are not going anywhere and if they do someone else will be happy to move right in their place.

[BillyJack]

I don't really know who would be upset with the Windows Phone 7. Everyone runs and buys a new phone every two years anyway. Some even sooner. So they bought a phone and a year later Windows 8 comes out leaving them with a Windows Phone 7 for a year. Who cares. People already do that with Android and iPhone.

In fact, I am ****ed. I bought a 2011 car a month before the new 2012 version is out. Man that ****es me off. Can I please get a free upgrade. I like the new body style. I like the new wheels. I like the new engine. Upgrade me please. Or I will go and buy the other car brand. Wait! They release new cars every year too. Damn it!

[BajiRav]

It just seems rather short sighted or deceptive from Microsoft with NT being their target all along. What was the point in WP7 if they were going to dump it for the NT kernal in WP8. It stinks of beta test but consumers are paying for the priveledge. I've got no problem with technologiy moving forward but this has been too quick a rug pull and that also shows they have had the NT on Windows Phone project in planning for a while so they knew fine well what they were doing with WP7 and it's userbase a long time ago.

What Microsoft should have done is plan for WP8 all along as the Windows Mobile successor, not WP7.

Because NT wasn't ported to ARM when they did WP7...

[remixedcat]

I think people are jumping the gun with the surface and WP8 stuff.....

1)we don't know EVERYTHING about the surface yet.... so don't judge it before you know more

2)sometimes you got to update the platform and if that requires a re-write of the code and a new fresh start then that's what you need to do. I would rather have a fresh start and have it really optimized for the hardware I bought then some half-ass attempt that has problems. windows mobile was really slow and imagine if they used that codebase for windows phone 7 and just put a new skin on that instead of doing something different....

[BajiRav]

MS is betting that WP8 will bring in largely the Windows developer crowd that has been sitting on the sidelines. Hence, they pushed hard on the code reuse between WP8 and Windows 8. So, Microsoft is hoping that the interest will not exist for WP7.x otherwise there wouldn't be any code reuse to speak of largely.

I'm not sure how you can argue that maintaining two separate code bases is a good thing. Are you a developer? The DRY (Don't Repeat Yourself) principal alone makes many developers balk at maintaining more than one code base...

As I have said countless times, it is a far cleaner solution to dynamically disable code compared to maintaining two separate projects with their own duplicated code structures.

You can code re-use between WP 7.1 and WinRT.

[Keyboard Cowboy]

I don't really know who would be upset with the Windows Phone 7. Everyone runs and buys a new phone every two years anyway. Some even sooner. So they bought a phone and a year later Windows 8 comes out leaving them with a Windows Phone 7 for a year. Who cares. People already do that with Android and iPhone.

In fact, I am ****ed. I bought a 2011 car a month before the new 2012 version is out. Man that ****es me off. Can I please get a free upgrade. I like the new body style. I like the new wheels. I like the new engine. Upgrade me please. Or I will go and buy the other car brand. Wait! They release new cars every year too. Damn it!

It's just the tech community blowing things out of proportion as always... Like I said before, six or so months after all this stuff is released this will be ancient history and they'll find there next target to whine about...

[daniel_rh]

The claims made by this article it's the perfect example of be against the name of progress, if you don't fully upgrade you are just taking half step. Windows Phone hardware was already outdated when it was released compared to the latest products at that time!

[Orange Battery]

Don't buy a device unless it suits your needs at the point of purchase.

Security should be updated for the accepted lifetime of the device along with major bug fixes.

We should make the decisions - Im not siding with MS or any other company here. We are now at the stage, technology wise, where we don't really need the latest and greatest anymore, what we have suits our needs in both hardware and software requirements.

If WP7 did not suit your requirements at point of sale then why did you buy it? - If you got it because it came with the contract phone then you should know that your just another user that the phone company expects will upgrade upon completion of the contract to the next phone - its all part of the deal, they don't run the business to suit your needs.. despite what the adverts may say.

This is a business, you have needs and should demand more of the people who aim to fill those needs.

[BillyJack]

It's just the tech community blowing things out of proportion as always... Like I said before, six or so months after all this stuff is released this will be ancient history and they'll find there next target to whine about...

I agree. I love being sarcastic. lol

[xeleraph]

I gave you a example, and I think it's more than accurate yet you skipped it. If developer has a game or some other new application do they just target the old hardware, and forget about the new stuff (just code for 7.x and let WP8 compatibility take care of the rest) or do they make two versions of the app to cover everyone? Or do they only target the new hardware specifically and forget the older devices? Just because you'd have most of WP8 on the older hardware I think you'll still run into this issue for now. What should a game developer do in this case?

What kind of app will require 1GB RAM and 1GHz clock rate to run? The vast majority of apps on iOS, Android, and WP7 don't. With native code access in WP8, the spec requirements are going to get lower, not higher. Your argument is far-fetchedly hypothetical to the point of absurdity.

And even if your argument is valid, Microsoft has already shown that they don't think fragmenting the WP ecosystem based on hardware specs needs to be avoided at all. You know what Tango is, don't you?

[xeleraph]

Don't buy a device unless it suits your needs at the point of purchase.

Except that people's needs change as time goes on. If a trending social app appears sometime in future that all my friends use, or a new app with killer features is introduced sometime later down the road, then my needs will have changed.

There's no need to put up with such a poor philosophy from Microsoft when iOS and Android (via CyanogenMod and/or the Nexus line of devices) promise a far better experience.

[SharpGreen]

This happens in the Android world all the time. When a new version of Android comes out that is radically different from past versions, requiring new drivers and such (in the case of the 2.3 to 4.0 update) devices makers have to decide whether it's worth the time, effort, and money to build the update for old crap, or spend that same time, money, effort, etc. on something that is actually going to make more money.

In this case the effort required to bring what is essentially a totally new OS to old hardware simply isn't cost effective vs. building a new device. Plus it's not like they're really losing much, considering the smallish user base of the current Windows Phone OS

[Growled Member]

I have a HTC Inspire that has Android 2.3.3. I am happy with it and it goes everything I need. I don't worry about upgrading at all.

[xeleraph]

This happens in the Android world all the time. When a new version of Android comes out that is radically different from past versions, requiring new drivers and such (in the case of the 2.3 to 4.0 update) devices makers have to decide whether it's worth the time, effort, and money to build the update for old crap, or spend that same time, money, effort, etc. on something that is actually going to make more money.

Old crap?

Silly me, I thought that strict hardware limitations and chipset specifications were imposed on WP7 devices for a reason. Sony (Ericsson) did the same with their 2011 Xperia range. I guess the reason that Sony did it was to make it easier to upgrade all their 2011 Xperia devices to ICS in one fell swoop, while the reason Microsoft did it is to use it as an excuse to shaft its entire user base.